Hi,

I've had a new 05 6MT/NAVI for about a month now, and I continue to have a problem for which I am fully prepared to take responsibility, but I need some advice.

I've only had manual transmissions in my 16 years of driving. That doesn't mean I'm the best manual driver, but it does mean that I have some sense of what's going on with a stick shift. I have killed the TL maybe 6 times in a month. I can't remember, before the TL, the last time I killed a stick. Even when I was driving someone else's car.

What's the trick? I seem to be doing something wrong from full stop to first gear. Some days I'm on, and perfectly smooth. Other days, I'm far from smooth. On those days, it even seems weird to go from 1 to 2, but everything else is fine. Usually, first is a little challenging but second to sixth are OK.

I have a few theories. First, I'm not usd to a manual with this much low-end torque. Second, the feel from the throttle is, well, different. I think maybe I let up on the clutch pedal too fast (or, engage the clutch too fast) from a stop.

My first car was a Civic 5-spd, my second an Accord 5-spd (both smallish 4-cylinders).

Is there hope? I felt like I had it, then killed the stupid thing yesterday again. Ugh.

Thanks.

Stuart

 

I would guess you are having problems trying to avoid wheelspin from too much throttle at takeoff, thereby failing to give the car enough gas and stalling it.

My best advice is to always err on the side of giving it gas. That way, if you make a mistake you will just chirp the tires rather than stall the car.

I find the best technique is to give it more gas initially, then let off the gas a bit as you disengage the clutch. That way you get off the line but don't spin the tires. It also may help to slip the clutch a little bit as you start to roll (let it out slowly).

 

this is the reason i didn't get the manual. i just didnt like how it felt.

im used to old school. not a hydraulic clutch. even though it will last longer. i like it that the clutch has an actual physical link to the gear box. you could 'feel the pull'. unlike now, it is connected to a computer which then tells the gear box to move.

even though i got the AT, heres the secret to your problem. the clutch engagement point is pretty much as soon as you let the clutch come back off the floor. unlike the civic and accord, those cars allowed you to lift the clutch a good amount before it engaged. so with the TL, you need to know to start giving it gas a lil earlier and start doing it as soon as you lift the clutch.

the civic and accord you prolly had, had the manual (non-hydraulic) clutch. so you could actually feel that pull.

hope i explained that well and didn't confuse anybody.

 

I can only share my experience from the test drive I took on an '04. I did notice a touchiness that I've never felt in any other manual transmission. I don't think it really has anything to do with the transmission or the clutch for that matter. I noticed that the accelerator pedal is hinged differently. I usually apply pressure to the bottom of the pedal in my other cars, but with the TL (to get the best feel) I had to put pressure on the top half of the pedal to get the best feel for the accelerator. This may make no difference at all, but it felt different to me.

 

No, you've both helped. It's what I thought: just not enough gas.

I'll get there. It doesn't help that I've basically only had the opportunity (even though I've had the car a month) to drive to and from work, with not many stops. I'm going to have to do some more driving, around town.

I understand what you say about hydraulic versus physically-connected clutches. It's give-and-take; I thought the 5AT hesitated WAY too much. I'm sure it's a great AT, but it doesn't feel right to me.



Stuart

 

Yeah bud... I too have many years of driving sticks... and found it difficult at times to get it going from a stop... (after a year of ownership... it's gotten easier...)

I think it's a matter of getting used to it... (+ the hydraulic thing)

Good luck to you...

Salut
Ciao

 

I'm 57 and have only had 3 cars with an automatic. I too noticed a difference starting off with the TL. I now have approx. 3000 miles on the car and love the manual transmission. But I agree that you cannot feel the engagement point on the clutch. I think I have become attuned to the sound of the engine. If I have the radio/CD at a high level I sometimes do not make a smooth start.

 

I have the same problem as you do. I could sense the exact engagement point of the clutch with the flywheel on my previous Mazda, but this new TL, it's really hard to tell when it engages.....also the quite engine sound doesn't help either.

I'm always concious about riding on the clutch, so I never did with my previous car, but my new 2005 TL 6mt, I just have to ride it a bit from a start, or I stall.

Hopefully I'll get used to the smooth clutch and sensitive gas pedal.....

 

try what i started doing. i learned the trick from this forum. from stop, i have trained myself to shift 1-3, instead of 1-2. the transition is smoother. the engine is strong enough to handle it. probably eaier on the clutch since you will be using it less.....just my opinion...

 

I think it's a combination of the low torque and the soundproofing.

 

Practice practice practice.
The TL isn't the easiest manual I ever driven but after about 6 months I'm used to it now.

 

most of it has to do with the drive by wire throttle and not the clutch. hondas have been running hydraulic clutchs for as long as i can remember. (i know atleast since 88) you have to get teh car to learn your driving with the drive by wire and you have to learn the drive by wire feel with the gas

 

I am not a stick driver, gas pedal, break pedal, D4 & P.... these are things I understand....

My hubby just bought a '05 6spd TL and I've stalled it more times than I can remember putting around town. I'm great once in 2nd gear.. but hearing that my novice stick driving isn't the only possible factor for my herky jerky stick skills gives me some solace. That sweet spot from a full stop in 1st is very hard for me to find. I like my auto V6 accord.. just punch the gas and go .

The new TL only has 1000 miles on it and does seem much smoother shifting than when we first pulled it off the lot, but even still.. when starting off uphill, i tend to chirp the tires a tad from fear of stalling and rolling backward... hubby just states i need more practice.. without him in the car to save his neck from the pain

Maybe its a good thing the TL is my first manual car with all the differnces in drive by wire and computer controlled clutches... time will only tell..

 

I'm just glad I said something, and have gotten good responses.

I was afraid I'd get a few "lern 2 drive a stick you dufus!" messages.

Stuart

 

Do not worry, just keep on driving. The clutch had a little bit strange feel to it when the car was new but you will get used to the car and the car will also break-in. I, too, stalled it a few times in the beginning but after a few months, the clutch feels perfect to me.

 

Stuart:

Welcome to the forum and to the Acura family. I think you will find most of our members are helpful and considerate. We share concerns and a love for our TL's.

And if some of our cantankerous members come out from under a bush and bark at you, XP will be there to rein them in.

Let me give you another greenie to get you going on your reputation points. Enjoy.

 

Sturob, here's a good post about MT by SouthernBoy Learning to Drive MT ,actually it was called Downshifting. Another good source is this one http://www.318ti.org/notebook/shifting/. You're gonna hear this a lot. Practice, practice, practice. It took me about 1500 miles to get comfortable with the clutch and to find it's sweet spot. For others it may be less and for some, maybe more. Once you get it down, you may not want to dirve a 5AT.

 

hey guys im am in an auto right now and thinking about switching to the 6mt this summer but im kinda worried about all this toughness hehe i just started to learn the standard way of driving with my firend teach me.... btw does it hurt the car when u stall it? ty all

 

The more I drive my 6 MT the better it shifts.

 

Yup. Part of it is you getting used to the car and part of it is the shifting gets easier as the car breaks in.

 

Don't be too discouraged, when I drive our 6MT after driving my RSX-S, it takes awhile for me to re-adjust. Just as I do with any unfamiliar manual car, I just tend to give it more revs (personally I give revs with a series of throttle blips, not constant revs) and more clutch slip to keep it smoother and to avoid stalling...although it might not be as clutch friendly as abruptly engaging it to getting moving.

 

While not absolutely necessary, on steep hills I use the parking brake to hold the TL as I release the clutch to prevent rolling back. You hold the parking brake up but with the button pressed in. As you feel the clutch grab you release the brake. Avoids having to hold the rev's up and/or releasing the clutch quicker than normal.

 

I've killed our 05/6mt a few times and it's because the (a) I can't hear the engine engage as much as I am used to and (b) there is something different about the gas pedal.

I love the 6mt it just seems to take some practice but I do have some lurchy 1-2's.

I do 1-3 a lot it does not lug the engine.

I find that I have to give it gas sooner than I intuitively think I should be giving it throttle.

 

I've driven a 98 eclipse and an 01 porsche 911 and have to say the 911 is quite difficult to engage from start without practice.

I test drove an 04 6MT and felt that it was fairly easy to drive. It was by far the easiest to drive compared to the other two cars above. Maybe because the other two are sports cars?

I hope to be getting my 05 6MT soon.

 

Yeah I've been told that's the way to do it if you're on a hill and don't want to roll back.... so much to think about and coordinate while driving I took the car to work today and around town in stop and go traffic.. I think i needed a drink after getting to one of my destinations today so much 1st gear clutch work.. I'll give that emergency brake trick some practice Thanks!

 

Several things I've noted that give rise to problems such as yours. The clutch pedal travel is relatively short on this car and the takeup is even shorter. In my car, engagement begins too close to the floor which can cause stalling if you are not careful since it affects the "feel" of engagement.

Along with this, the engine does not produce very much torque at idle and just off idle and when coupled the short travel and takeup, the point of no engagement to nearly complete engagement is hardler to control. And the quieter operating condition (little exhaust note) means you have to pay more attention to your tache when starting off. Under some driving conditions, this can be difficult and at times dangerous.

 

hey guys i posted b4 but i just wanted to know if the car gets damaged when u stall ?? ty

 

Not to any significant extent. There is a minor amount of wear somewhere in the transmission or the clutch, but I have never heard of anyone damaging a transmission or wearing out the clutch because they stalled it.

 

I think all I had to do was complain.

Today, it drove like buttah. Seriously. I was one with the transmission, and I had none of the hesitation of the 5AT I test drove (and the salesman kept trying to convince me that there WAS no hesitation . . . . . . but we all know there is.).

It was all very Zen.

Thanks for the help. I think my subconscious took note.

Stuart

 

Hi All, I've driven MTs for years. Here's a technique I use when learning a new manual trans car:
Find an empty parking lot with a long, gradual incline. Start at the bottom and launch the car without any throttle, it can be done on most cars. Stop as soon as you get the clutch all the way out. Repeat this till you get the feel of the clutch. It may take many times. Then practice starts with throttle but never let the RPMs go above 2000, BEFORE the clutch is all the way out, this prevents the clutch burning. The 2000 rpm rule of thumb on starts really helps prevent long term clutch wear. As the poster said before, practice, practice, practice.

E

 

I've had too many MT cars to even count, but when I got my 04TL, it drove me crazy trying to shift smoothly for the first 4000 miles. Just recently I seem to have finally gotten the "feel" of the clutch and get smooth shifts 98% of the time. The thing I've found different with the TL6MT is the lack of a positive feel where the clutch fully engages. When I finally learned how to make the 1-2 shift smooth, what I noticed is that I find myself letting out most of the clutch rapidly, then the last inch or so very slowly...it's a strange motion, but as long as I keep my seat in the same position, it's become second nature. It's totally different from the clutch in my Honda DelSol. It's almost like a two step motion letting out the clutch rather than one long smooth movement. Also....driving around town, often I either start out in 2nd gear, or shift from first directly into 3rd gear. Just because we've got 6 gears doesn't mean you've got to use all of them every time. It sure saves a lot of legwork driving in traffic and in the city.

 

I have owned only manual transmission cars (nearly 30 years) and all had sensitive clutches when new. I have not stalled in a couple of months and my car has 12K+ miles, so I assume the cluch has broken-in. My wife has not stalled it lately either, and she only drives the TL once or twice a month.

 

I've been stalling daily...especially when getting up into my driveway...and some days.....it feels so weird...getting off on 1st and and going from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd....but 3rd and on is okay

 

The MT is much smoother when you are pushing it, IMO. You'll get used to it driving normally though, it takes a bit of time.

 

 

I find that letting the rpms fall down between the 1-2 shift and then shifting quickly takesaway 90% of the jerkiness on the 1-2 shift. The clutch in the CL-S6 is very hard to drive smoothly also. The engagement point is very short and not very progressive, so it seems like its either fully engaged or not at all. My CL-S6 now has 20k miles on it, and while I dont think I've ever stalled it, its comes close numerous times. I find that it needs at least 2k rpm off the line if you dont want to slip the clutch like crazy.

And if you think its strange going from a RSX to a TL, try going from a Mustang. The sad thing is that my Mustang has a much much more progressive clutch engagement, but its tons harder to push.

 

i stalled again last night...only one time though...but I tried the transition from 1st to 3rd instead of 1st to 2nd to 3rd and I would have to say..1st to 3rd is a lot smoother than 1st to 2nd..

 

I agree with the people who have noted that any time you try a new MT other than the one you are used to there will be some adjustment. My classic example of that was that I learned to drive on my father's 1982 Honda Accord with a 5MT, but my first car was a 1977 Ford Granada with a 4MT with at least double the clutch travel of the Honda. Stalling it perpendicular to traffic on a four-lane road in Reston was rather embarrassing!

I found the TL's clutch harder to adjust to at first than any other car I have driven (including the Mexican rental cars with manuals I've driven in Cozumel and Playa del Carmen). For a second I thought I would crash the test-drive car as I was trying to pull it out of the dealer's lot. After about a week I was comfortable with it, though--once you are used to the clutch it becomes second nature.

If you want to get used to the clutch, I suggest a variant of what user etch12 suggested up above. It's how I learned to drive a manual, how my brother learned, how I taught one of my college roommates, and how I retaught my mother in 2002 after she hadn't driven one for over 15 years. Find a large, flat, reasonably empty car park. A high school on a Sunday afternoon would be ideal. Pull the car in front of an empty space but not into the space. Your goal is to use the clutch, and only the clutch (no accelerator), to pull the car into the space without stalling. This requires letting it out gradually until you feel the engagement point, then pressing it back down. Some hard-core types may say this is not the best thing to do to the clutch, but I've never found that it increased wear, and it gives you a very good sense of where the engagement point is--which is important because in the TL it's hard to feel it.

 

I'm beginning to think that this is a bad car to learn on

 

it might not be....just think about it this way...since this car is more difficult than most...when you try other cars..it'll be simple and easy...