HEK

Not a comparison but a friend of mine is looking into buying a TL, I know him and I know he "mods" his cars so I think he would do good with a 6M, but he is looking into an automatic because he says that the 6M are harder to sell, being most people beat on them vs the autos....

Personally I baby my TL and I think that having a manual vs an auto is a matter of taste, and if you're going to beat car no matter what tranny it has you will beat it...am I "RONG" in thinking that way??...

cM3go

6MT not 6M, wrong not rong.

Now that we have that settled
I don't think 6MTs are harder to sell, there are plenty of people that want manual cars over automatics

05TLTony

Yo Hek, what's up?
I would agree with you regarding the beating on the car part, no matter the tranny. I have a 5AT and I sorta beat on it. I guess everyone has the urge sometimes.

TailsToo

It seems that MTs do go for a little less than ATs. I guess because so many people don't know how to drive a MT.

JoganJani

Right now Acura makes 6MT TL 15% of total production and are hard to find. For resale I think it would be the same for resale. People who love 6MT will always buy them. You can tell from the condition of the clutch if it's used the unhealthy way. When it comes to beating, both cars can be beaten.

HEK

Yo Yo YO......been there done that so no excuses for those of us who just like to play with our toys.....


QUOTE=cTLgo]6MT not 6M, wrong not rong.

Now that we have that settled
I don't think 6MTs are harder to sell, there are plenty of people that want manual cars over automatics[/QUOTE]

damn 6M...wow and Rong....lol...anyways mr Mod..earatrrr...I think the same ...but I hope he makes the right decision...

clausda0

I test drove the 6 auto, prefer the 6 manual now that i own it. I am a better driver because of manual.

DMZ

Granted, the 6MT is more fun to drive, but uses more gas than the 5AT, especially on the highway. Prior to our TL's, I've never heard of a car where the automatic uses less gas than the manual.

leeo

they are not harder to sell , but they are harder to find..I know personally it took me about a month to find a 6spd with navi with grey interior and i had to drive 140 miles to go pick it up..But it was worth it...

leeo

DMZ- Yea the short gears in the car make the gas mileage suck..But i think once you start modding it , you should be able to increase the gas mileage to something decent..I know in my 02 TypeS when i first got it the gas sucked in that thing too , but after i started to mod it , i quickly got better and better gas mileage..

subinf

are the 6spds getting worse highway mileage?

SouthernBoy

This has not been my experience at all. My '04 manual TL gets much better mileage than my '05 automatic TL on the road (33.94 vs 31.25 respectively).

The manual TL has a higher final drive gear, but when combined with 6th gear, the end result is as if it were a lower gear than the automatic. However, the manual does not suffer from nearly as much parasitic loss in the transmission, and does not "hunt" for a lower setting when negotiating slight hills.

SouthernBoy

As I noted, not my two TLs. My '04 manual TL gets better mileage, both in town and the highway, than my wife's '05 automatic TL.

The best in-town, back-and-forth-to-work mileage I have managed with my '04 manual is 27.98 MPG.. in the summer months.

clausda0

What are you talking about? I get 34MPH at 80 mph in 6th gear. Can you match that in your automatic?

Black_05_TL_6SP

I have to disagree, if the 6MT is driven correctly, it will well out perform the 6AT in MPG. It is all about driving habit. In the 6MT you can choose your shift points, this allows you to shift earlier and not rev as high, conserving gas. I have a 6MT and I am currently getting 29 mpg city! I have been driving very conservatively, its boring, but with gas at $3 a gallon, I want to get the most out of my gas. I am currently at 415 miles on the tank and still have 75 miles left on the range.

Jason

clausda0

wow 29 city. Whats it like crusin in 6th gear at 30 mph?

good job!

subinf

thats very impressive. i wish i had the will to do that.

mlody

If this number is true that mean that about 10000 TL per year are 6MT. TL Which means that about 850 are made per month. I am not sure how many dealers are out there in the US, but i do not think Acura has more than 100 dealers. that would mean that on average each dealer should have about 8 6MT TL per month.



Just checking IL state, I do not even think there are 5-8 total 6MT available across all the dealers - at this point it is a rare car I think.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

6MT are rare. IFyou can find it I say get it even if you have to learn how to drive it. I just tell myself down the road when it paid off, If im up to it, I'll just look into a swap

SouthernBoy

As I write this, Pohanka Acura in Chantilly has 11 6MT's out of 107 TLs in their inventory.

Ka0tik

my parents wouldnt let me get a manual (even though i had the hook up for a new 05 for 28,000ish otd) because they said that resale would be bad

btw i paid 29,700 for an 05 tl 5at

SouthernBoy

According to Kelley Blue Book, here are the values for a 2004 TL with 25,000 miles and Nav (both transmissions) being sold in my area;

Trade in: Manual - $25,425
Automatic - $25,425

Private Sale: Manual - $28,360
Automatic - $28,360


Kinda puts a damper on those who say that automatics will return a higher resale/trade for the TL. First, consider the area in which you live. Second, consider the demand-vs-supply of the product. While it's certainly true that there can and will be differences depending upon where you live and the demographics, in my area, performance sedans with manual transmissions are prized.

missmyprelude

The percentage of 6MTs that I heard is about 6%. I have no idea how accurate that is since I got that from a dealer.

Anyway, I think the whole supply and demand thing cancels things out. Sure, there are more people looking for and willing to buy an AT. So, if you're looking for a quick sell, you'll get more $$ with an AT. However, an "enthusiast" would be willing to spend a bit more $ and time finding an MT, so an MT owner may get more $ if they're not necessarily looking for a quick sell.

And as far as gas mileage, I was getting 28MPG in my 6MT on my typical route. When I had a 5AT loaner, I managed to get about 25 MPG along the same route.

HEK

You're so on the money here.....if I was on the market for an automatic vehicle it would be just that...just a vehicle...not a car I would like to drive but a vehicle t get me from POINT A to POINT B....

Ka0tik

if you notice, those numbers are the exact same... meaning kelley blue book did not calculate the price for automatic vs. manual, while it did calculate the price for just a TL. When i went to the dealer, all of the dealers for that matter, manuals were consistently lower in price.

and it doesnt matter what a book says (even though it is a very useful and reputable source of information), all that matters is what a buyer will pay for it

subinf

wow thats a first, i've never seen that around here

broly

6mt is faster. 30 hp is lost to the wheels due to the automatics torque convertor (the jolts and smooth shifts)

so if you have a 6mt you're technically putting 230hp to the wheels (30 lost to friction) opposed to 200 in a regular 5at TL, justsome thought.

clausda0

do you have any proof of that? can anyone back that up?

broly

Common knowledge.
*Bump*

You didn't know this man? Automatic shifts are NOT smooth by nature. If you want an automatic without the loss of power check out hte M3's SMG, ti's revolutionary, it's a manual without torque conversion and it costs 5000 more.

It jolts even in it's auto mode, you cannot avoid this. This is why a gear is lost in 5AT compared to a 6mt. The ratios are split among the 5 gears since there is a torque and HP decrease due to the torque convertor (in essence 1 gear) whereas it is not lost in a manual

bluenose

My God !!! What a lot of dribble. Dyno tests of 04 TL's show 12 hp difference between the M6 and the A5. 1/4 mile times are 9/10th of a second difference.

broly

dynos do not prove for anything champ bailey.
If you knew that they avoid the friction part of the test you'd know that horsepower differential is much different on road tests

TL 5AT 0-60 IN 6.4
6mt in 5.8

Check the supercharger ratings too, it puts a lil more to the wheels due to the lack of a torque converter.

Dont' run your mouth to make yourself feel better

bluenose

I don't know how measuring drive wheel horsepower via a dyno means nothing but we're obviously in the presence of someone with vast knowledge and experience so we'd better accept the word of the expert!

Black_05_TL_6SP

If you do the math on that alone, that is only 9.7%. That is close to the percentage they make. Most dealers don't stock 118 TL's, and to find a 6mt at a smaller dealer is harder. I was so picky that they had to find mine, and at the time they didn't have any 6mt on the lot.

Jason

123456SPEED

As far as MT vs AT ...

The 2G Legends (sedans and esp 94-95 coupes) in the MT mode were very sought after. I could never find a low mileage 95 coupe so I settled for an automatic.

Got bored with that and went for a CLS when the 03 6MT came out. 6 speed CLS's are very sought after as they only made about 2500 and only in 03.

You TL 6MT drivers are lucky, us coupe drivers had to wait 8 years, from the 95 Legend to the 03 CLS for a 6speed/6cylinder combo! (ok, not counting the NSX).

Selling and buying an MT is trickier but can pay off well, there is a niche for them and since (on the LEgend and CLS) they were rare you can get good money for them, but it may take a little longer than an auto. I had to get my current CLS in another state and drove it home.

broly

WHat do you know man,

a 6th gear plus higher torque due to no loss from a torque converter equals about .5 a second faster which is what reviews are saying

To make matters worse, .5 second on such a big car is more than 12hp I hope you know this and do your research before you snap your mouth off bout a dyno.

clausda0

thanks for the info everyone.

Wid-TL

Call it luck, but in November the only leftover '05's they had were 6MT where I purchased... I think 4 or 5 of them... Guess it's based on the area and related demand.

bluenose

You're right , I made a mistake there isn't a 12hp difference its actually 10hp. Go to the 'Temple of VTEC' and read the results of the two TL's they took to Dyno Labs to test wheel horsepower not crankshaft horsepower. 5AT - 212, 6MT - 222 Any loss due to torque convert inefficiency is revealed in the test results.

Anyway, you obviously know much more that the rest of us so we'll end this discussion and admit that you are right and we are wrong.

redrum4me

good read!!!

broly

Vtec forums? Dude are you cracked?

One site says 12 hp the rest give us a .5 second faster and you can justify good old Vtec forums? How about you just amdit you're sad you didn't get a 6MT And now you learned your lesson.
You have no idea what you're talking about I'l lsay it again and again, too bad you can't get anything going for you other tha nVTEC Forums. ROAD TESTS PROVE .5 Seconds difference which is > 12 hp..

Thanks bye.