raf1919

So took my 07 TLS to get navi replaced they gave me 2012 TL SHawd. i was amazed how must faster it was. I noticed its only got about an extra 20HP vs my type S and i figured w/ the extra weight the awd adds you would think it should be even.

the 2012 has a 6 speed trans, is that what is giving that nice off the line boost the extra gear or is there something wrong w/ my TL.

vietxquangstah

iTrader: (7)

Is your TL-S AT or MT? What about your loaner AT or MT

TrustinHFDJ

I dont know man, I think that is in your imagination really, you must also remember your TL 07 is Different from the 08 Model Type S, all Acura's changed in 08 towards the same aspects of 4g. In addition, you got 4 wheels delivering power which is more power to the floor. You will definitely feel a better acceleration which is what gets everyone all giddy, but I do not like its top end performance.

Our vehicles are to par with the 4g. I definitely enjoy the looks and performance of the Type S a lot more in comparison to the 4g; but of course this is just my opinion.

vietxquangstah

iTrader: (7)

He says he has a 07 TL-S, you must have mis-read what he said.

With AWD, the engine suffers more drivetrain loss so it's actually less horsePOWER to the wheels.

You can drive the SH-AWD through corners at speeds you wouldn't dare attempt in your 07-08 TL-S whether it be 5AT or 6SPD..

JJH

iTrader: (1)

1. The curb weight of the 2012 sh-awd is 3,900 pounds; the 07 type-s AT is 3,500 lbs.

2. The 2012 sh-awd has AWD and therefore a higher percentage of drive train loss, especially in an automatic. ~25% compared to the 15-20% of the type-s (AT).

3. The 2012 sh-awd gets an extra 20 crank horsepower with the 3.7.

4. The 2012 sh-awd has a less stiff suspension resulting in a different feel off the line when compared to the stiffer suspension of the type-S.

truonghthe

OMG since when 08 TL Type S are leaning toward 4g TL except for the last year of the Type S production before heading into a new generation? How in the world you put more power to the floor? did you know that AWD put power down to the dyno much less than FWD or RWD? So please next time do some research before throw it out there like "Our TL-S has double clutch gear box like those found on GT-R and Ferrari."



E.G

1. stock 2011 Subaru WRX rated 265 at crank and only put down 205-209 whp on dyno.

2. 2nd gen RL rated at 300hp and later revise back 290 hp only put down 210 whp.

3. 3rd TL-S MT rate at 286hp put down 250 whp and 230 whp for AT.

So in theory my Type S is putting power down much better than my buddy WRX, but if we ever race no doubt, I would get spank any time in my TL. I think you are confuse between putting power down to the wheel versus traction. Yes AWD car spin all 4 wheels so it will get better traction than any other type of driver train, and finally I don't think 4th gen SH-AWD TL will beat 3rd gen Type S TL and here is why.


2012 TL SH-AWD with Advance pkg.

Power 305 hp @6300 RPM, 273 lb-ft @5000 RPM.

curb weight - 4001 lbs.

gas tank capacity 18.5 gallons.




Versus


2008 TL Type S AT.

Power 286 hp @6200 rpm, 256 lb-ft @5000 rpm

curb weight - 3674 lbs.

Gas tank capacity 17.1 gallon.


Source: Auto Trader



lets set up a scenario where we have a race and let assume that both driver have the same skill and they are both weight at 160 pounds. Assuming that both car has full tank of gas and both car are AT with the same tire brand and tread wear, tire pressure, stock power, stock car and tire temp. According to USAF each gallon of fuel is weight about 6.78 pounds (this might be a little lower or higher because we use gasoline not jet fuel but not off by much). So here is my little math.

08 TL

Fuel weight: 17.1 x 6.78 = 116 pounds

Driver weight 160 pounds that is 116+160= 276 lbs added on the TL

so the new weight would be 3923 lbs.


2012 TL

Fuel weight: 18.5 x 6.78 = 125 lbs.

driver weight 160+125= 285 lbs.

Total weight 4286 lbs.




The weight difference is holly crap 363 lbs.


SH-AWD may be pull off the line faster than Type S do to AWD advantage but eventually the 363 lbs disadvantage weight will allow Type S to catch up in the mid race and also Type S has 1 less gear to shift than SH-AWD which take a power deliver loss to the wheel during gear change and Type S may emerging victorious. There are many variables play a role in this race such as transmission ratio (some one can shade light on that thnx).


overall the worst case scenario would be a close race and the best case Type S will win. WHP is mainly for people who mod car knowing what is the base line on a stock platform and if they put in a modified part how much hp/lb-ft they will gain/lost after, I think that gear ratio, weight and traction are playing a much important role than whp (gap in between + or - 20 whp).

vietxquangstah

iTrader: (7)

I thought the "Curb weight" is the weight of the vehicle with full fluids, oil, gas, spare tire..... Pretty much everything besides drivers weight.

AirForceFX

Wow, what a reaction. After reading the original post' I'm not sure his intent was to challenge you on race terms or disgrace the 3rd Gen.

In addition, you identified the weight of JP-8. Not sure if its accurate but I'll give that its close enough for a fudge factor.

Unrelated: Why is Acurazine not on Tapatalk? Non-mobile compatibility is bothering me greatly.

JJH

iTrader: (1)

No freaking idea! Acurazine is owned by a relatively large internet marketing company too. No reason to not have a mobile powered vBulletin or to be added to Tapatalk. Absolutely ridiculous.

truonghthe

I am not trying to challenge the 4th gen, just want to throw the fun factor out there compare between the two, no challenge or offense to anyone :P.


Yup I know it's JP-8 weight that fuel most of the USAF fleet including Eagle,Viper and Raptor (I think it also same type for Navy use in the Super Hornet and Hornet) one of my friend uncle is flying ANG F-15 Eagle at Westover AFB tail code MA and another friend of my is currently serving USAF at Eglin AFB tail code EG. I am almost join the USAF but thing changes so I guess just keep research and study on US, Euro, Russia military aircraft as well as commercial airliners, I am working for turbine blade and vane manufacturing for both applicant and best of all CT is where the power plant of your B-52, F-15, F-16, F-22 and F-35 engine being produce by P&W.

About the unrelated, yes I would agree with you on the mobile issue. Who know someone might release AZ apps later for smart phone.

thank you for the correction.

sauceja

iTrader: (2)

I agree love the styling of 3g.

And I'm using my phone

raf1919

my intent was not to challenge looks i think 3g is best styling. my TL-S is AT and my loaner was AT. it was 2012 SH w/ ADV highest trim.

but i agree with most points about the 2012 AWD cons: more weight, less power to wheels. which is why it surprised me that if felt quicker off the line. granted this is using the butt dyno. and i wasn't like punching it either i'm talking about like 5k RPM.. no redlining.

but from the research I have done i see that 2012 has 6speed tranny, vs 5speed, so i guess my question was i guess, is that extra gear giving it that advantage.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Raf, I know what you're talking about (the power of the 2012 TL's), but the timeless look and style of the 3G's trump anything the 4G's might gain.

I'm totally happy with the power of my Type S. I can love with it vs. the 2012 TL's.

I was just in my dealership on Friday and they're STILL asking me if I'm ready to trade in my Type S-the sales guy who always asks want my car really bad! I just keep laughing when he asks.....

turbo_oxide

Haven't driven a '12 SH-AWD just my '10, but it's hard to deny that the 4G SH-AWD will run circles around the 3G Type-S when you're doing some spirited driving in winding roads (and in various road conditions). The 4G SH-AWD is sooo much easier to drive and generally feels more responsive, but whether it's more fun is subjective. I feel alot more "a part of the car" in the 3G and more of "just operating the car" with the 4G.

4G isn't noticeably "faster" to me, it probably just feels that way being it is just more efficient at taking off and maneuvering (no torque steer, electric steering).

ez12a

having driven a 4g sh-awd at a small test drive event, knowing that the 4G has awd is confidence inspiring. loved the way the car responded through the corners. same with the mdx sh-awd. that thing can go.

MEKO

iTrader: (1)

New sh-awd 4G TL always seamed fast to me while driving but wasn't sure if it's just in my brain or car is fast.

After I drove the new MDX which felt friggin faster than a 4G TL, I let it go.
On paper 4G TL supose to be faster as I know, MDX is a huge SUV
but to me MDX felt much faster.

I can't say anything about speed, fast or something else on Acuras anymore.
All I know is I love my 06 hehe

YeuEmMaiMai

MDX felt slow as a snail to me... the awd was nice when pushing it around corners but you can definately feel the weight of that thing regardless

06NH6MTTL

iTrader: (1)

i drove a 2012 tl (non shawd) 3.5 and i drive a 2006 base mt and the 4g tl felt extremely smooth and fast. i have to admit this was the feeling after not driving my car for over a month and being stuck in 2012 tsx but i really like that car. Did you know in 2012 they released a sh-awd 6 speed option!!!!!

Franchise1124

^ I believe the 4G always had the 6-speed SH-AWD option but I could be wrong.

I'm tempted to go to the dealer and test drive a 6-speed SH-AWD. The one 4G I've driven didn't have SH-AWD and it was a 5AT

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

gear ratios matter.

also, in '12 is when they offered a 6AT option.
so what the OP is feeling is better gearing than his archaic 5AT.

Franchise1124

^ Thanks for the clarification Justn. When I said 6-speed in my post, I meant the 3-pedal variety. I forgot about the 6AT being added to the lineup in '12.

3rdGenHybrid

If the question is which car is faster... It's the 4g tl-shawd 6mt vs any tl-s. sure if we raced to 150mph the tl-s would win, but from owning both a 3G tl-s 6mt and a 4g tl 6mt, hands down the 4g is way faster, off the line and all the way to 130. I've walked a few 3G tl-s when I was stock, not to mention how much harder it pulls with no cats and the xlr8 exhaust. Even car and driver and motor trend rate the 4g quicker in 0-60 and 1/4 mile.... So where's the argument at???

Babnik

Has anyone made any attempts to reduce the weight of the 4G? There's a topic on the 3G forum where some guy did a lot of stuff to his 3rd gen and it got noticeably faster and better handling. If someone tried the same thing with a 4G it would probably be REALLY fast.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

the only year they didnt have the 6mt was 09, i think

GKinColo08TL

Agree with Justin...6 sp gear ratios are better in all gears...quicker acceleration.

I also drove both a '12 MDX and '12 TL SHAWD and felt like the TL was quicker off the line than my 3g. The MDX was a dog, due to weight no doubt. Agree with poster who said he felt more connected to his 3g, same way I feel.

truonghthe

4g TL offer MT only in SH-AWD in 2011 and later model because Acura decide to drop the sale in MT do to low number unit being sold, but the consumer still complaint how there is no MT available for sporty driving.

Shoot2Thrill

Your history I believe is a bit off, when Acura brought out the 2009 they stated the manual would be available in 2010.

rhafikjaan

with a loaner even a minivan is fast LOL

raf1919

this makes sense.. thats what i think i felt. car just took off with ease off line. i didn't have it long enough to get comfortable enough to open it up.

Healingduck

For whatever reason people expect the 4th gen TL to drive like a tank.

350

iTrader: (4)

LOL I'm driving a loaner TSX right now (hate it) but it does feel fast at 7K RPM every shift. I kinda wish I got a TL as a loaner to compare it to my 3G but those things are ugly as hell I'd never buy one.

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

6mt TL-S vs 6mt SH-AWD
- the SH-AWD is not way faster, lol. More like slightly quicker. Let's be realistic. You're talking about a car with a whopping 20 extra horsepower, more weight, and more drivetrain loss. It still makes up enough to beat a stock TL-S 6mt off the line but you'd never walk a 6mt Tl-S that hard.

14.0 1/4 on the SH-AWD http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...tl-sh-awd.html

and 14.1 1/4 on the TL-S, lol
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-type-s-page-5

We're talking about 1 tenth of a second difference in 1/4 times and .3 seconds 0-60, lol. and the 0-60 is *entirely* attributed to AWD.

It's a driver's race between the two cars in a straight line, stock vs. stock, no matter which way you cut it. Again, be realistic. You aren't gonna be way faster than a good driver in a 6mt TL-S if you are both stock.

Not trying to be a douche but the only time an SH-AWD shows any clear and/or painfully obvious superiority in performance is on an auto-x track.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^glad you put him in his place.
even my '06 6MT can take on or even surpass him

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

correct, sir. A lot can happen between each gear shift when both drivers are in a manual car

wise_optimist

I haven't driven either, but I know InsideLine's number is without 1-foot rollout that most car magazines do. I don't know whether CarAndDriver does this.

I'd take either and be happy.

Shoot2Thrill

You should be happy with the 05, I completely enjoy and respect my 04 and 08 but know the improvement of the 4g versus the 3g is from the first turn and the first acceleration. Way faster, I don't know. Doubt it. The 04 has plenty of reserve power. Drop it down a gear or two and you are gone. Further, for me over 90-100 MPH on any public road is really not too smart. On handling the 4g SH-AWD is in a whole different league and you don't have to be hanging it out to feel that. You notice it just driving normally. Quoting the car porn neglects the journey to the car limit in any meaningful dimension of performance which is much more refined in the 4g. I look at the 12 and say wow that is a good looking car and I still do the same to the 04. Put one at your house and you might start to look differently at the TL-S.

06NH6MTTL

iTrader: (1)

Either way there is no comparison on sound. The 4g ELS is one of the best stock systems i've ever heard!!!!!!!

cpm06wdptl

JP-8 is used Air Force wide. I am an instructor in the Fuels career field(or POL 2F0X1) as it's mainly known as. The fighters use a variant of JP-8 with additives called JP-8+100. Heavy frame aircraft use straight JP-8. Deployed environments sometimes also use a variant of JP-8 called TS-1. Most commercial airports use AVGAS. A gallon of gasoline, or MOGAS, as it's called in the Air Force weighs 6.0 lbs per gallon so you're weight statements from before are fairly accurate. Sorry for the thread derailment but I just saw a chance to share some gee whiz knowledge with you guys that wasn't strictly car based.

TrustinHFDJ

I am not trying to give out non accurate information, but sadly that is the only reason why I could think this gentleman felt it was faster.

When I say the 3g leans towards the 4g based on the power, and as you are saying it may be equal or win the race. I agree to the 1/4 mile times so the car is fairly close. Personal preference is the 3g, which is why I wanted it. In addition, you guys are comparing the 08 to the 12'.

I never compared the 08 to the 12, I bought my car in 2010, nor did I plan on purchasing a MT vehicle. That is true comparison when it comes down to it. You could say the 08 vs 10, both auto, you guys are throwing in variables which I am not considering, but since we got the type S no worries; it can be auto too.

I do not know why truong believes the transmission has no difference hahahah... those are the main things that made me want to purchase the vehicle. The curb weight does include everything full minus the driver. So you are throwing in random pointless variables.

If you actually consider the TL-S MT, it actually weighs less than the AT; so we have even a greater advantage.