ackyourah

Thanks SouthernBoy. I had no idea the flush does not apply to the MT.

I'm going to pick some fluid up soon, but won't be changing till a bit warmer. Will do the two changes 5-6K apart as you described. Seems like really cheap insurance for such a vital, expensive part of the car. I'll let you know how it goes.

SouthernBoy

I can copy that about waiting til it's warmer - I hate the cold weather.

If doing two drain and fills close together like that eases your mind, then no harm done. Like you said, it's a small price to pay for taking care of an expensive part of your car.

If this is the tranny's first drain and fill, expect to see quite a bit of tiny gold-colored flecks, or filings, in the drained fluid. Don't let this worry you. These little gold-colored flecks are shavings from your synchronizers as their contact surfaces mated, or married, to one another. This is normal - unless there is far too much of this material floating around in the mix. Now for your own good, let me ask you a question if you don't mind. How do you perform a normal downshift? (there is a reason for this question)

ackyourah

Thanks for letting me know what to expect when doing that change... I do suspect it will be the first the car has seen. Without your warning I would have been freaking out seeing stuff like that coming out. I probably would have been at the shop the next day wanting to exercise the warranty.

To answer your question: I really don't downshift (for function) very often... other than for assisting gentle braking in the snow. I'd love to push the car in terms of cornering performance etc but for the cost of tires and brakes, it just doesn't seem worth the thrill ride (ok, but just sometimes). Not to give the impression I drive like grandpa, I have been known to accelerate rather aggressively at times like when I need to remind someone they really didn't belong in the left lane or when I need to remove some ass from my blind spot - so mostly just killin the mpg. When downshifting to take easy corners I usually have allowed the engine to rev down and then I engage the gear, with a touch of accelerator as I move through the corner. Basically, I suspect I'm putting minimal stress on anything.

I guess I'm really beating around the bush not answering your question cuz I don't want to look like an idiot but here it is: On the rare occasion of a more aggressive maneuver (i.e., downshifting for a functional purpose) I do try to rev match (basically the reverse of upshifting). This has always seemed the natural thing to do. For simple fear of tearing up the equipment, I really don't push aggressive downshifting much. Maybe with more practice I'd be willing. Now you gotta tell me why you wanted to know.

I am wondering something else... when just driving mellow and saving mpg for when I wanna burn 'em (or when getting her up to temperature), I tend to select a gear that keeps the revs as low as the engine feels comfortable (no rumbling vibration). Is this harder on anything like the transmission or other parts? Am I correct in my assumption that it saves fuel?

Thanks again!

LuvMyRDX

Yet another satisfied GM Synchromesh-FM user. Just picked up an '05 TL 6sp a month ago. Thanks to the posts on here I was able to look for the 3rd gear issue on my test drive. The car did have a bit of a notch going into 3rd, but never popped out. The notchiness was a bit worrisome for me as it would probably only get worse, but I got the car anyway as these 6sp TL's are hard to come by in this condition or any condition for that matter. Decided I would change out the fluid with the GM stuff rather than have the dealership tech tear it apart just to change out the 3rd gear parts. 100 miles into the fluid change and nothing but good news. This stuff is fabulous. Fabulous enough to put in my sis's '04 just as an insurance policy since her 6sp has no issues at all. 55k on my car and 65k on hers. Good to see GM is making a product I would actually buy...even if it is a $12 quart of fluid.

SouthernBoy

The question about downshifting has come up so much on this site that I thought I would pose it to find out how you do things. It is a good question to raise when one wants to know at what level the driver is with the operation of a manual transmission. Rev-matching when downshifting is the next best way to do this. The best is to double clutch your downshift. This adds two extra steps to rev-matching. But in your case since you say you don't downshift much and when you do, you are careful with it, you're probably just fine as is.

As for you question about taking it easy while the engine temperature is coming up, yes, this is a good thing. I tend not to want to raise my RPMs too high while the engine is warming up - usually I try to stay under 2000 RPM initially and after a few minutes I will take it up to 2500 between shifts. This reduces stress on your engine while the oil is getting to starved parts and thoroughly lubricating them. It also allows fluids to warm up, not only in the engine but other components as well. As for normal driving when warm, I also tend to use lower engine speed, as long as the engine is not laboring. This does increase fuel economy as well.

ackyourah

Hey SouthernBoy, your comments on double clutching downshifts got me curious. Let's just say I think you have converted me to the church of the DC.

I checked out some videos and read some explanations and gave it a try. Been doing it here and there for about a week and I definitely need to continue practicing but there is no doubt about it when I get it right. There is quite a difference - the mechanicals just seem so much happier.

I am now much more conscious of how much more often I downshift than I had thought, and how I was doing it (I was really more just letting the clutch out slowly as I wasn't actually getting everything quite synched up). I am still needing to think about each segment way too much to try double clutching in a tight situation but it'll probably get easier with practice.

With all the concern about transmissions and reliability, I think it's well worth the effort to invest in learning proper execution of the DC.

My son has been driving about a year and is learning to drive the MT (been out a few times). Once he's nice and comfortable, I'll introduce him to the DC. I wish someone had taught me a long time ago. Thanks for the advice.

SouthernBoy

You're more that welcome and believe me, your clutch and transmission will thank you the most. Clearly, you're on the right path so stay with it and continue to perfect your technique. You'll know when you've gotten it right when you don't even feel the downshift (from your post, you already know this).

What continues to amaze me about proper downshifting techniques is when I write about this, and I have been doing so for many years, I get flak from some people. They actually argue against doing this - some say it isn't necessary with "modern" transmissions. All this tells me is that; 1) they do not know how to do it and will not admit what they have been doing is incorrect, or 2) they haven't a clue how these components actually work. Mind you, it's their car so they have every right to do as they see fit. But ignorance always comes with a price. I prefer not having to pay that myself.

So stay with it and be diligent. And if you have questions, please feel most free to ask.

SouthernBoy

BTW, here's a pretty good video of double clutching. I disagree with the driver's comment that modern synchronizers are good enough to where this is really not completely necessary. Sure, you don't have to double clutch. But if you do, the wear on your synchronizers will be significantly reduced.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...8575741675515#

brihutch3

I had the TSB work performed on the 3rd gearset on both my 2005 6MT, and my 2008 Type-S 6MT, both still under the factory warranty at the time. The dealer here in Denver did the work without giving me a hard time about having to "reproduce the issue", on both cars. The 2008 is perfect now, and minus some clutch/pressure plate factory parts issues that Acura has with the '08 type-s part number, the work was performed quickly. The 2005 came back with other issues though. 1st gear wouldn't go in easily while at a stop anymore, and when cold, all of the gears felt harder to engage. After reading all the posts, it's obvious that the dealer reaction to this complaint, as well as the outcome after the work is performed is totally inconsistent.

vpforever

I have an 05 manual TL that I took in after reading about the 3rd gear pop-out issues which I had noticed ever since I bought the car last year.

I went into the dealer and they confirmed the problem. So I asked about the GM fluid and the manager told me that acura doesn't recommend it and it could void my warranty if something happens, so I should use whatever acura recommends. He said I could have it done afterwards, but if they find out about it and I have problems, my warranty may be void. Knowing this, I had the TSB work done to replace third gear parts anyways, as I wanted the problem taken care of.

Afterwards, it works well and I have not had any pop-out issues. Mostly, it's smooth, but sometimes, it feels rough getting into gear, especially third. It just seems like there isn't enough oil getting around. It's not PERFECTLY SMOOTH every time. Is it me or can others that have had the work done confirm this? Or those that have only used the GM fluid, can you tell me if your gear shifting is perfectly smooth? or does it still feel a little rough?

ThaiBruin

I have noticed that it's sometimes a bit tougher to get into 1st. But I still don't regret doing the TSB as I'd rather it be a little tougher getting into 1st than sporadically popping out of 3rd.

phee

iTrader: (5)

x2 on first being difficult on downshifts. but not on starts

SouthernBoy

If you're concerned about your warranty being voided if you use GMSFM fluid, what about using Amsoil's product? Will the dealer accept that since it is listed as a replacement fluid?

As for "Or those that have only used the GM fluid, can you tell me if your gear shifting is perfectly smooth? or does it still feel a little rough". Mine is smooth all the time. Natually, in really cold weather, there will be a slight increase in resistance, but with my 04's manual transmission, it is so slight as to not even be a consideration. I have never had any of these issues with my '04.

SouthernBoy

The reason for this is because the disparity in shaft speeds is greatest when trying to downshift to first gear. Couple this with the fact that engine braking is also magnified the most in first gear and you can see the "how and why" it takes so much more effort to shift into first gear when the car is still moving. If you double clutch this downshift, you will completely eliminate this problem.

LuvMyRDX

I've got about a thousand miles on my trans since I changed it over to the Friction Modified Synchromesh and it feels like new now. I've got no 1st gear issues and 3rd pops in like all the other gears with no hint of popping out. The stuff works...period!

Project X

im in the same boat as you.. my ride has the TSB done last month and that work now has a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty. i think it would be best to not do anything during this window but maybe afterwards use the GM synromesh fluid.

any negative long term effects from GM synromesh fluid?

DMZ

None noticed after 5 years and 80,000 miles of use.
Still shifts like butta .
.
.

vpforever

I didn't realize there was a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty on the work. I've only driven it for about a hundred miles after the work was done, so let's just see how it goes. I'll keep you guys updated. First has been harder to get into for me as well. I will wait a little while before I put in the GM Synchromesh fluid, as it seems to be very good. I'll call Acura to verify the warranty about the work done later.

From the looks of reading other threads and this one, the GM Synchromesh fluid seems to be very good and has no negative effects. I haven't seen anyone with problems. Although in terms of how long the fluid keeps the gears smooth varies from person to person.

I'm definitely glad that I got the work done as well. Now I know there are no pop-out issues and the slightly rougher shifting can be solved by the transmission fluid.

Bender

The GM fluid would have stopped the popping out as well. Popping out and grinding stopped as soon as i drove it after the GM fluid. 5 years no problems.

vpforever

I know the GM fluid would've prevented popping out and grinding, as I saw others post it. However, there was variation on how long it lasted. Yours seems to be fine, but knowing that I still have more than two years left and 60k more miles left on my transmission warranty (I only have 38k miles on my car), I figured I should try to let acura take care of it. If anything happened, they'd have to fix it. I also didn't want to void my warranty after speaking to the service manager about the GM fluid. If I were out of warranty on my car, i'd definitely use the GM fluid, but right now, I want Acura to fix it. If there's a problem, have them take care of it. Now the problem's solved without the fluid.

Overall, I'm very satisfied with the work. I haven't had any problems and as I drive it more and the transmission fluid is getting older, it feels much smoother. It's only SLIGHTLY rough in first gear and third gear one out of maybe 10-15 times I get into the respective gears. I haven't driven it all that long, so I'm going to see how it goes. Hopefully it's buttery smooth later on.

Bender

Ok, so they have not fixed it then.

phee

iTrader: (5)

ive actually been DC in order to hit first because i got tired of the extra effort of a single clutch movement

vpforever

I am not here to debate with others, as I have read the extensive arguments between doing the TSB and just using the GM fluid. I just wanted to contribute to others that are still deciding on whether or not to fix it.

IMO, the problem is fixed b/c there's no more popping out and no more grinding. What I mean by "slightly rough" is that it's not silky smooth (and this is only about 1/15 times). It's not going to be an issue while I drive. It's just a warning for others that get the TSB done or are considering it.

akinin11

THis Gm fluid works it the best fix i got my 05mt 5 years ago with 40k and had third gear problems hard to put into and grinding once in awhile went to the dealer they told me put in the gm fluid so that i did PROBLEM FIXED now i have 105k still no problem smooth as butter had the same thing on my rsx type-s third gear hard to put into went to the gm dealer told them what i need his like you just had two guys come in this morning for their civic si which also has thrid gear problems and this stuff fixed it (gm fluid) so put it in the rsx now no problem its defidently the fix i recoomend it for all honda 6 speeds it will fix the problem with no effects!!!!!!!!!

Smitty27

awsome im going to take my tl in

SouthernBoy

Has virtually nothing to do the gears since they are all in fixed positions and do not move - other than rotate.

SouthernBoy

Sounds like you were one of the fortunate ones who had this work done. There have been a few who have not had good results.

Congrats to you.

Silent_TL

I called a few GM dealers and they don't carry the fluid anymore. So is it safe to say I can get the Amsoil fluid..

Bender

I am pretty sure a Cadillac dealer would have it.

Silent_TL

Bender,

Thanks, the Cadillac did have it but for $31/quart......Expensive!

Bender

check out this post I found


Old 12-22-2003, 02:49 PM #3
pugnex
King of OT

Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: MA/NH USA

Autozone has the Pennzoil synchromesh for $5, atleast every autozone I've been to. The GM and pennzoil are the EXACT same thing. I even found a website that said so. I believe that ACDelco is the main destributor of the oil anyway.

http://oil-store.com/OEM%20Specs.htm
found the site
http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=73963


here is the ACDELCO product

http://www.acdelco.com/html/pi_vehcare_lub.htm

Silent_TL

LOL Bender, its like we are reading the same 2 posts about this problem/fix. I also found the Pennzoil $6.99 at Autozone and the Amsoil $10.75 (which according to the first few posts here are the same as well).

Pennzoil I can get asap but Amsoil I have to order online. I just can't believe the price for the GM at the Cadi dealer.

Thanks again!

Bender

NP yea I can't believe that either. When i bought it I think it was 14 a bottle. That's a lot as well but I needed it right away.

DMZ

Go to that Cadillac dealer and tell them you know it lists for around $13-$14 a quart and see what they say. Stealerships try to rip people off all the time quoting whatever they think they can get away with.

Case in point:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...59&postcount=4
.
.

LuvMyRDX

I just bought mine at a Chevy dealership here in the Denver Metro area about a month ago so I know they still carry it. They had over 20qts in stock. If it's not something your dealership keeps in stock they certainly can order it in for you or you can have them search the area for other local dealerships that stock it. I paid $14 and some change per quart. If you cannot find it at a dealership I know there are a couple places online you can order it from.

Bender

If it is the same as the Pennzoil or ACDelco then problem is solved. Anyone know if this is true?

LuvMyRDX

Forgive me for not having the link handy to back this statement, but from what I remember reading the Pennzoil Synchromesh stuff is similar to the GM Synchromesh...not the GM Synchromesh Friction Modified. What everyone is using here is the Friction Modified stuff. I've read a few posts on other blogging sites about the Pennzoil stuff being far inferior to the shift quality of the GM Synchromesh with FM. Not sure about the ACDelco stuff as I've never heard of it.

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

I would just use the ACURA MTF. Paul (NVA-UA6), who is a very knowledgeable person tells me using GM would not "solve" the problem. Just because you change the fluid will not fix your synchros, it will help but not "fix" the problem completely. I am putting in new syncs and gears since they are one piece and apparently ACURA fixed the problem in the newer years.

Bender

Are you saying that the synchros were designed with this flaw and every TL to roll out of the factory has broken synchros? Or is it more likely the Acura fluid causing the problem?

vpforever

so I'm really pondering changing my transmission fluid to the gmsfm fluid BEFORE the end of my 100k transmission warranty. My question is, after I do change it, will the dealer REALLY know if I am not using their new acura fluid? Can they tell? Because I know people have said it is darker, but will the dealer really be able to void my warranty if I change it? I have been warned that it may void my warranty if I switch from the acura fluid to the gmsfm, but I want to see if there really is a way of telling. I know I can change the fluid back before I take it in, but I cannot foresee what will happen. I know that the tranny is great and there shouldn't be any problems and that the gmsfm should improve everything, but you never really know what can happen to a tranny. Any tech specialists know? any ideas?