Hi all... my advance apologies for probably starting a thread where I shouldn't on a topic that's been covered. I've been lurking for a couple of months, getting answers to a few questions I have by using ye olde searche buttone, but there's this one question I have that I can't seem to find the answer to.

BTW, I am from Ohio, and in Ohio we end sentences with prepositions. Or, should I say prepositions are what we end sentences with.

I'm just curious how many miles people have on their 3G TLs. Actually, that's not true at all. I really don't care about all the people that have 50,000 miles on their cars. I mean, I care about them in a human sense, but... I want to know about the guy who is a travelling salesman and has 180K on his 2004 already.

Crap, I lied earlier. I had two questions. Where do I go to talk about the things that you guys have already helped me with, and maybe some of my future plans for the car? Does anyone care about that stuff? I am a veteran of a couple of other forums related to Shelby Cobras (tens of thousands of posts and more words than you can imagine... well you can kind of imagine, now), and we kind of just BS on those forums. This place seems so organized compared to what I'm used to! Not to mention far larger...

Anyway... I'm not lazy, I'm just big boned. I have weeded through pages of threads and subforums, and must have glazed over the one that is somewhere between a specific technical discussion and fully "off topic."

Thanks for your help, everyone. I do appreciate it.

Oh, and I have 61,000 miles on mine. Oooooohhhh.....

 

Sooooooo whats your question?

 

LOL^
Basically, he's asking the long term reliability for the 3rd gen.
As I see it, it's a honda motor. They'll last as long as you treat it well.

 

Honda makes very reliable cars. My dad has a 94' Legend with 240k on it. I'd expect these cars to be able to do the same. But you may also want to check this:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...+miles&page=10

 

Yes, I see it the same way - Honda makes reliable cars and it should last a very long time. I was just curious if there is any anecdotal evidence out there of 3G TLs lasting a certain number of miles.

 

I would be more concerned with other things going on the car and having to be replaced than the engine. Auto tranny seems to be a weak link on some cars. Other than that if you take care of it the car will last. I put on 40 000km on my car in a year and a half and never once have I been to the shop because something went wrong. I did my own spark plugs and I do my own oil changes and just keep up with regular maintenance. I have 83K miles on the car at the moment.

 

Id like to know who here has an 04 model with all original miles to give insight what broke/failed under normal conditions. that should give us later owners a good idea of realistically what to expect.

 

sixsixfour, that's what I'm looking for... Curiosity gets me wondering how many miles some people have put on their '04s, but the practical side of me wants to know what to pay attention to.

I've always maintained my car well. But, the day I bought out the lease I started maintaining it REALLY well. My goal is to drive it until it dies, and I want to prolong that as long as possible.

 

I hear you. I maintain this car like crazy. sure I put the spurs to it every now and then, but it lives a pampered life. regular oil changes at around 4-5K, a steady supplement diet of 100 octane unleaded, always washed and waxed, garage kept, etc. you name it.

I know things break due to age, and even the TL is no exception. I was looking to find out what major problems original owners had to deal with during their car's life. just some things i want to look out for.

 

The 3gTL is entirely too new to give you the total answer you want. We can only go based on older Honda models. They're all known to last a freaking long time. Guy in my car club had an 88 CRX with 450,000 miles on it. The engine was still going strong, but the unibody had rusted so badly (WI/MN car) that it was sagging in the middle so he junked it. I have a CRX with 268,000 miles on it. I just sold my other CRX with 180,000 on it. Another CRX I had (yeah, I like them) had 220,000 on it before rust got too bad and I parted it out.

I know people with much more than 200k on their Integras, Legends, Accords, Civics, and Preludes. I still see Vigors running around too.

In short, being a Honda, as far as mechanicals go, it should last you until well after you're tired of it. I say should, because despite Honda's rep for incredible quality, you never know what corners they're cutting in newer designs. Toyota's a good example of that. Everyone thought they were bulletproof until this year.

As far as the fancyparts, like nav, etc, they probably won't last nearly as long. My CRX is still running just as well as it did from the factory, but then the most complicated piece of electronics in it is the aftermarket stereo I installed. The computer that runs. . everything. . in your car is a lot more complicated, and there are a lot more failure points in it than older Hondas had. It's that stuff that's likely to fail first and most often. But like I said, our cars are too new to get a decent idea of when that might happen on average.

The biggest problem I've seen with "older" TL's (04's, 05's) is cracking dashes (mostly in hot climates). Even that, though it is clearly a problem and a significant design flaw in the TL, still has too few examples to really determine exactly why they crack and what we can do to prevent it.

 

Look for threads by mmade22.

 

I know this is not the mileage you're looking for but I have 91,000 on my '06. So far, the only things that have happened that were not caused by myself or others are:

OEM battery died around 30,000 miles and 1.5 years.

The seat heater indicator light burned out about a year ago and 75,000 miles but the heater still works of course.

The drivers side headlight went out at 90,000 and I drive with my headlights on 100% of the time.

I've upgraded a few things but only because I wanted too.

I installed a 13" 4 pot brake kit in the front around 89,000 miles. Original fronts were not even halfway worn down. Rotors had some surface cracks and were blue from abuse. Installed stock sized Rotora rotors with a very aggressive pad in the rear and rears looked almost new. I actually shot rotor temps to make sure they were working.

I replaced the front shocks with Koni Yellows around 40,000 miles. The OEM shocks felt like they *might* have been softening up just a little so it was a good excuse to upgrade. But to clarify, they were a long way off from having to be replaced.

Honestly, my biggest complaint is the paint quality especially when you're doing lots of freeway miles. When I quit commuting, I had the bumper, fenders, and hood repainted and the windshield replaced to make it like new again. My black TL looked like it was grey in the front from all of the thousands of rock chips and I always maintain a long following distance.

So basically, 1 minor item covered by warranty that kept the car from running and 1 item that would've gotten me a ticket eventually. Luckily with these HIDs, you get "pink eye" before they go out for good.

 

I havent really seen a lot of significant issues with our cars, but if you wanted to check out the current crop of 'issues' you can always browse the subforum dedicated to problems/fixes:

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/

note that a lot of issues there could be related to mods people have done.

 

My 2006 was owned my a traveling businessman. It has 145k now! I put 5k trouble free miles on it (knock on wood) since I bought it. The dealer changed the timing belt and water pump prior to sale. People who ride in it think its a new car, it still smells new. My interior still looks new, never been smoked in. The interior is a big key to how a car was treated and maintained.

 

Good stuff... thanks. I've lost a few button and switch lights, and found the relevant thread for replacing those. I replaced a dead battery on vacation after I (ahem, my wife, but God I love her and tend to forgive these little slips) left the dome light on all night. Got a jump and took it to Wally World for a new battery, and by the time I got there, the green eye was, well, green again. But rather than risk it, I put a new Duralast Gold with more CCA. Minor investment in reliability.

Biggest concern for me is transmission followed closely by suspension parts. It definitely takes longer for the AT to go from R to D when I make that change after backing out of the driveway. OTOH, shifts are as crisp as they were on the drive home from the dealer. There is a very minor "something isn't as tight as it once was" sound coming from the steering or the drivetrain that will be easier to identify as it gets worse, probably over the next 20K miles.

This summer, I have a few stone chips to fix and its first ever door ding, which happend 6 days after I bought out the lease - never fails. Hopefully a Dent Wizard type fix.

 

The best thing you can do for transmission longevity is to replace the 3rd and 4th gear switches (outside of the trans) and dump the factory Z1 fluid for some Amsoil or Redline. Between the two, mine shifts like new at 91,000. The switches made the biggest difference and given enough time they will cause a mechanical failure.

Mine has had a long engagement from park and neutral to reverse since new. If I had just bought this car I would be worried but it hasn't gotten any worse, possibly a tad better with the new fluid.

 

72,500 now, and it's good to see a lot of people chiming in on their 105K service with few real complaints. I was catching up on some threads today after a long while away, and finally read through all the transmission stuff... fluid and pressure switches. That will be a this summer item for certain.

I did turn the radio and air off today at lunch and carefully observed the 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 shifts, and it all seemed good. No excessive slipping or anything. So, I was very happy about that - I get to do this maintenance item as a pure preventive measure, and after reading some transmission horror stories, I couldn't be happier.

 

mother's 02 Odyssey with a variant of this engine has over 120k miles and still runs strong. No engine problems to report besides giving it gas and oil.

Transmission was replaced once a long time ago though, but that's another story.

Engine wise, I think it's fine. You'll have to worry about transmission (auto) and interior wear.

 

The switches and fluid are not something I would put off. Every time it shifts with the stock stuff, it's wearing. I used to do a lot of drivability testing for a shop because I could always feel things others could not. You would be surprised at how many times I could tell the shifts were off and excessive wear was taking place when the owner felt that everything was fine. Most people can not tell something is wrong until the shudder or flare happens. My only point being don't wait to do these items.

Even when new I knew with the way mine shifted it would not go the distance and I kept an eye out for something to fix the design flaws.

 

Pfffft. Lightweight.


216k on a 2005 (6 months ago): https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/so-ends-mmade22-sells-tl-moves-into-gs-thanks-everything-azine-791926/






ehhh, nevermind, you old thread-bumper you.

 

Not sure if this helps or not but I had got a brand new 2001 Honda Accord v6 when I was 16 and I drove that car HARD, hard corners, redlining stop light to stop light. I drove that car so hard I had to replace the rear brakes at 9k miles and the transmission replaced at about 30k, after that I still drove it pretty hard for another 30k and now I drive like a granny. Up until 145k miles (a lot of it was city driving, too, not highway) the car was fine, no transmission problems/engine problems and I even had UR pulleys. If somebody hadn't rear ended me I would still be driving that car.

Anyway, just to echo what everybody else is saying, it's a Honda and as long as you take care of it, it will last. I did a drain and fill of my transmission fluid every 24k after the replacment, changed my oil with sythenic every 5k and had the 100k mile service performed as well.

This is why I'm looking into buying TL 3G because I know it will last.. until somebody rear ends me, again *knocks on wood*

 

121k on my 2005 6mt. did 105k service and other than that have only changed the battery and my left headlight just burned out. I have a few indicator lights that burned out (climate control on driver's side and driver's side seat heater) I proactively changed out all the fluids (tranny, brake, power steering).

 

Acura dealer where I purchased my CPO '08 TL from 1.5 yrs ago has a client with a '04 TL with (at the time) 400,000Kms (250,000miles). He was considering purchasing the '08 I bought to replace his '04, but decided against it as he felt his '04 had much more left in it. Also, the service guys said no major repairs, just regular service.

 

I find it funny that some consider replacing a trans at super low mileage to be acceptable as long as it's a Honda product. If it were a GM or Ford it would be the end of the world.

 

To be fair, v6 Hondas had big time transmission problems accross their lineup around the late 90's, however they took care of their customers. They replaced my transmission under warranty and paid for my rental.

 

A Very interesting conversation with my transmission builder Click for a good read.

 

^ - Not to mention the shit storm with the 2g TLs. Almost as embarrassing as Acura's new line-up

 

It started in the '90s and has not been resolved yet, at least not by Honda. Look at the huge 3g failure rate. I hope i'm wrong but let's see what happens when the 4g gets up there in mileage. Many thought the issues stopped with the 3g until people started putting mileage on them.

 

Bearcat, that's what I'm talking about! Going to check out your thread, now!

IHC,

Your contributions to this forum are awesome. I am used to very small forums, a few hundred active members, and the time and attention you give to individuals with questions and needs, on such a huge forum, is really great.

I am not an engineer, but I've been inside of a lot of engines and transmissions and even built a 508 horsepower smallblock Ford for a Shelby Cobra replica (that your GN would beat on the strip in case you were wondering to what degree I am a realist ). I am first, second, and third, a car guy. I do not plan to wait until there is a problem with my transmission, but am not going to do it now. I know that while it may not be perfect, it is shifting the way that it should.

What I am actually planning on doing, because I will only be doing it once during my ownership of this car, is the 105K service, about 25-30K early. I have tried to think of a reason not to, and have none.

So, this summer, I'll be putting it on a lift at a friend's shop back where I grew up, doing the full 105K service, replacing my toasted J-Pipe, doing the best trans fluid flush I can after some more AcuraZine research, replacing the trans switches, replacing what seems to be 6-10 burnt out switch bulbs inside the car, and a few other miscellaneous things. That means maybe 3-5K more miles on a transmission that has operated near flawlessly for 72K. If I had better garage space, I'd do it next weekend. I don't.

I plan to sell the car at around 150K if it is still worth anything (this will be around 2015 on a 2006), and I just can't come up with any downside to doing this service early.

 

AFAIK, the major two problems with the old Honda 5AT were the countershaft component and the lubrication. The countershaft problems were due to a Ohio metal fabrication facility that Honda subcontracted to machine and harden the shafts. The tolernaces and hardness were not up what Honda had specified and Honda failed to properly inspect the shafts. The lubrication problem was a design issue for which there was the recall band-aid patch to get more oil to the countershaft.

So the design problem was across all the gearboxes and the recall is not a perfect fix but does get more ATF onthe countershaft. The other is dealing with which countershaft manufacturer you got, and yes some of the replacement 5AT had countershafts from the bad manufacturer.

My wife's 2003 Pilot has 180K miles on it, it has only ever used the Z1 and now the DW1 ATF. It had the recall done for the oil pipe bypass. So far we were lucky and got the other countershaft manufacturer.

I know alot of 2G TL owners who had 5AT failures, only a few Accord V6 owners and no Ody owners. A couple of the 2G TL owners even went through a 2nd gearbox after only a few years. Honda/Acura did replace them but most owners were highly annoyed and frustrated with the whole Honda/Acura reliability/durability attitude that they last forever.

The LA Times did a great writeup on the whole 4AT/5AT problems at Honda in the US and explained the problems in pretty good details. Unfortunately it's no longer online.

I've not heard of anyone that has had a problem with the newer Honda 5AT gearbox.

 

This stuff has been posted before but I dont mind answering so I wont lecture you like some here.
I just sold my 04 TL---It had 122,000 miles on it.
Outside of brakes and tires and the 105k service here is what was faulty.

Both of these issues took a lot of reading and trips back and forth to mechanics and the stealership.

Oxygen SensorAnd one of the sensors that controls the accelerator pedal speed, forgot the name.
Both of these issues resulted in a check engine light coming on and my car going into limp mode, where you cant go over 120mph. Once fixed it was all good.

Axles Easily the most aggravating of all. --I replaced both axles at my mechanic for a total of 400.00. This took a long time to diagnose (there was shimmying when accelerating above 30MPH).
The dealer wanted well over 1000.00 to do the same job.

All of these problems I was able to diagnose with the help of the guys on this forum who have all been thru it.

My car was perfect when I traded it in and I felt it could have gone another 100,000 miles EZ.

Of course now I have a 2008 Type S 6 speed and I am in love all over again. LOVE this car and I loved my base TL before I sold it. I intend to drive this a LONG time.

 

Hello, my fellow Ohioan (I'm from Cincinnati, but I'm out here in Utah for school)-

My 04 TL (149,000 miles) fits the mold with what has been mentioned by IHC and others. I would definitely add an increased emphasis on the interior lights burning out- these little bulb, which are relatively cheap, are easy to replace so it's not a big deal that they burn out.

Also, beware of your catalytic converter- this has been an issue for me in the past year, and I replaced a bad O2 sensor which temporarily fixed the issue. Now it seems that was just prolonging the inevitable, as my second cat is dying and it's time for it to go. Because of my mileage, my TL is way past the warranty period even for emissions parts, so that's a few hundred just for the cat alone, much less the work to get it replaced correctly.


As with all cars, the drivetrain is the main issue. Honda makes them wonderfully, and it really is all about preventive maintenance. As long as you are doing your fluid changes, not letting the CEL stay on and taking care of it right away, and just being observant of your TL in general, there is no reason why it shouldn't serve you faithfully like Old Yeller.

One tip (which I'm sure you know because of your experience with cars)- do as much of your own work on the car as possible. Doing so makes you a lot more mindful of how things should look and work so you can spot issues before they become expensive.

Perfect example: I learned through the DIYs on this forum that the Xenon bulbs start going pink when they're close to dying. I instantly recognized it back in December when it was a slight tinge of pink, and although it's not an issue yet with color (it has become a bit more pronounced), I had enough time to buy my bulbs for far less than the dealer cost, installed them myself today, and they work perfectly. If I hadn't taken the time to learn on my own (even if I wouldn't have installed them myself), it would've gone out when I would've needed it and caused a safety issue, like during a late-night drive. Saved money, and crisis averted.

Thankfully not only are Hondas bulletproof, but they're quite easy to work on compared to many cars, so DIYing is within grasp for just about everyone. Even me, a 24 year old college student with no time. And this forum will show you how to do just about everything except fabricate a new TL out of sheet metal.

 

I read the entire insanely long NHTSA writeup on the 2g failures. Most of it was a bunch of BS IMO.

There were two major problems identified.

3rd gear clutchpacks. They blamed this on incorrect surface finish of the steels. This was before we figured out the swtiches were the cause of the 3rd gear failures and it still sounded fishy to me. There can be a huge variance in the finish and it just doesn't make a difference. It sounded like BS back then and now I know it's bs considering the switches cure the slipping 3rd gear issues.

Lube to the 2nd gear coutershaft. This was a real problem. But when you have so much clutch material from the failing 3rd gear clutch packs going through the trans, it's easy to see how yes, lack of lube was the issue but maybe it wasn't a design flaw but rather oil passages getting plugged off by the clutch material.

Couple bad pressure switches that cause excessive slippage along with a factory fluid that has way too much FM which increases slippage during shifts and reduces holding power and it's a recipe for disaster.

It makes sense that mostly the V6 models were affected. The poor trans had no chance given it's electronics and fluid handicaps. I'm not convinced the 5at is a bad transmission at all, in fact I think it's a good trans but it was not given a fair chance with the handicaps mentioned.

Look at the 2nd gen guys that are starting to do the type F fluid and switches. It's bringing them back from the dead which I think proves the NHTSA was wrong in their diagnosis of the surface finish being the cause of the clutch failures.

If only we could go back in time and try this fluid and switch cure back in '99 to see if it would stop the lube failures or not. I'm not saying the lube was not a design defect, it definitely might have been. But I wish there was a way to prove it either way. What I will say is that I don't believe for a second that it was the surface hardness that caused the failures. The gears would get so hot that they would chip and sometimes lock up. It was just a lack of oil for lube and cooling. Of course, the slipping clutches super heating both themselves, the countershaft and the fluid just compounded the problem.

I think Honda and NHTSA had no clue and were trying to find something to point the finger on to say they found the problems.

Now that we know how to make them last practically forever with a super cheap and easy fix, Honda is doing nothing about it. I'm sure with all of these threads someone at Honda has gotten wind of what's going on yet they still do nothing as we have a new 3g trans failure almost daily just in this small community. Who knows, the average person not on this board would probably not try and get Honda to cover part of the cost so they're making an additional $1,000 to $4,000 profit on each car sold with a trans failure.

 

goddamn, who makes acura's sensors? They seem to suck ass.

 

04 TL 6-speed with NAVI 68k on the body....17k on the engine

so far ive replaced

-interior lights around steering wheel, 1x seat warmer, 1x sunroof, 1x seat memory.

-New short block engine (Defective wrist pin)
-New clutch (while they were there)
-New T-belt (while they were there)
-New Drive belt with tensioner making noise was replaced 2k after engine work

-Brakes 4x in the front, 2x in the back
-P/S hose and wiper motor Recall
-Drive axles (making noise) need replacing
-Mirror actuators getting stuck or clicking were replaced
-Rear deck lid rattle Will be fixed when it gets warmer out

Normal services
-Synthetic LOF
-Air + Cabin filters
-Tire rotates and or Tires
-Alignments


Things I need to do soon
-At least passenger axle (clicking noise)
-Oil change
-Fix a plastic piece under vehicle
-Fix rattle from rear deck lid
-Full detailing

Since I work for Acura things ive noticed which are pretty common with the
3rd gens.

-Interior lights going out
-Window motors
-Navi units (The one in the trunk) self destructs
-Bluetooth unit self destructs
-Lock actuators
-Mirror actuators
-Axles (noise, clicking)
-Motor mounts
-Belt and tensioner noise
-Rear decklid rattle with other interior rattles

Usually those are pretty common at least 5 TL a day with one or more of those issuses anywhere between 30-120K. Major ones are going to be bluetooth and navi unit in the trunk when they go pretty $$$$.

 

IMO, AT are so complicated that one would have to have intimate knowledge, drawings, and documentation of the gearbox to relate to what really went wrong. The LA Times article got into the countershaft manufacturer in Ohio. The hardness and tolerances of the shafts they produced came into question only after a couple years.

IIRC there are no markings on the two sub-contractor shafts to differentiate them. Honda was caught off-guard with the sudden amount of AT failures, they had to setup an additional rebuild facility at their Ohio plant. There was a pool of remanufactured AT's that were quickly depleted, to make matters worst some of the remanfactured AT used the bad countershafts (some from stock some used from the returned AT).

If replacing the pressure switches and fluid would have solved the problem it would have been probably far cheaper to do that versus rebuilding thousands of AT's. The switches are external and fairly straight forward to replace.

The Times article got into how the Ohio Honda plant did not do lot inspection of most of the incoming components of the dozens of subcontractors in the US. In the end Honda chose the cheap approach and literally sat back and watched the bad AT's fail instead of doing a selective recall. The problem with the selective recall was Honda did not have any build geneology for the major components in the gearbox. So they didn't even know which cars to recall since both vendors were supplying at the same time for several years.

This sub-contractor stuff also bites the Pentagon as well, a major Ti bulkhead in the F-22 was found to be incorrectly heat treated at Alcoa and now some of the airframe's lifetime is going to be much less (30-50%) for those aircraft. Kinda light the countershafts they are in the middle of the aircraft and not the least be easy to replace.

 

140k on my 04 tl. and i have no clue what has been done to it... pretty much in the blind so im going to service it anyways just to be on the safe side.

 

my 04 TL has 82k on it and it's going strong. Just keep on on the recommended maint.

 

I have a 2008 TL. it had 16K on it when I bought it , I now have 403K original motor and trans. Still running strong.

 

This is most reliable car that I had in my life. Acura tl 08 here. 367k and drive like champ.