lldknyll26

before my 08 3g TL-S, i had a 02 2G TL-S. according to reviews from various sources, it was stated that 2G type s would go 0-60 in 6.2 sec. I've heard from many Azine Members that 3G type s goes 0-60 in high 5s or low 6s (automatic). however when i compare the 2G type s and the 3 G type s, the 3G type s feels alot quicker than than the 2G type s like night and day. Perhaps the 2G type s is alot slower than as it was stated on the reviews. I'm guessing it runs from 0-60 in high 6 or low 7?

TeknoKing

265hp vs 286hp

phee

iTrader: (5)

ehh. not sure. i know that a 2g type-s can walk a base auto. but you are comparing a 3.5 litre to a 3.2 litre engine. more torque down low thats why it may feel faster

Bearcat94

I've got both.

No doubt in my mind that the 3G is quicker and faster (Stock vs Stock). I can't prove it with slips or dyno sheets, but I'd bet a paycheck on it.

My recollection when researching the 2G (about 7 years ago) was a 0 - 60 typically in the 6.5 or 6.7 range. 3G typically in the low 6's, say, 6.1 - 6.3.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

The 2G is 260HP, but is that over rated as similar to what happened with the 3G when it first came out with the 270HP rating. The 2G has only 10.5 CR which leads me to believe that the HP is definitely overrated.
With the 5 A/T, the 2G has basically the same gear ratios and weight as the 3G TL through '06. In '07 the TL and TL's gear ratios where lowered and the final drive was raised, but the final result was a slightly lower overall ratio in each gear.

After all this gibberish, I'd agree that the 2G TL-s would be competitive with the TL as the 3G TL-s is in a class of its own.

108tls

this is exactly my thoughts, one have to remember the 2g tl-s was based on the old SAE standard rating, which with today's SAE rating would probably dropped it to 240-245 hp.
dispite what people will claimed, it is what it is. period.

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

So just out of curiousity what would the 07/08 TL-S be rated at HP wise under the old SAE rating?
Since the 04/06 TL was 270 and the Type S is about 30hp more than the base so im guessing under the old SAE the 07/08 TL-S would have been right around 300hp?
Not that it matters or anything :-)

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

I thought the 2nd gen type-s was the same motor as the 3rd gen base? Both j32s? So it comes down to suspension, and weight?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

2G has lower compression 10.5 to 3G 11.0

02type-s

Nope. My buddy has an 06 with the same mods as me, and i walk him. (you know who you are on here lol)

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I loved the 2G till the 3G came out...
I think it's faster just based on will power.

Plus I have a 6MT and I'm a pretty good driver. I walk my friends type S every time.
A lot of factors to take into account other than just hp listings.

TL|GTX

Meh my freind has a red 2g tl-s, and i can beat it anytime.

shooter

LOL ... can't we all just get along in the same family ? IMO this kind of 2G vs 3G type-s needs dyno sheet to back up any claims .. or else it's a mute point as the race depends on lots of human factors ...

PhilB81

the 3G typeS has more typeS badges (steering wheel, both headrests, and trunk), vs just trunk and shifter. So with this imperical test we can conclude the 3G is faster.

I have to admit my 2001 CL typeS had a bit more engine tone, and i find the 3G muffles the engine too much.
my 2008 typeS does feel faster, but last I drove my 2001 typeS it had 116k miles

way-acura

I had a 2002 type s for several years before trading it in for my 2005 base auto. Performance wise, they are almost the same. I think the type s pulled harder at the top end, but the '05 had better mid range.

With mod's the type s probably wins because of headers. I'll be adding rich's v2 jpipe, but headers>jpipe, I think.

lldknyll26

I actually own both myself. well i gave my 02 type s to my sister so i drive it here and there. There is a huge difference when driving 02 types and 08 type s.

VQPower37

i think someone on the boards came up with the formula for how to interconvert between the old and new ratings ... if the type S 3g was on the old rating it would have 299 HP is what i think i remember reading

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

Try to get a video so I can see that. I still have a hard time believing all these people on the boards that claim their base TL with 250hp can beat a Type S just because its 6spd. Even being an amazing driver more likely than not the automatic is going to shift quicker. Again, im not bashing anyone here I just wish there was some videos online to prove it.

James

lldknyll26

6spd base vs type s auto? hm... tough call. depending on the driver, 6spd base can take auto type s but not by much. Either dead even or a bit slower than type s auto.

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

To be accurate the base 3G has 258 hp and 2G Type S should be about 248 hp. So the difference is negligible. The reason why you have people posting different race results is that with a car having let's say about 100k + miles on the odo which most 2nd Gens do they will have a considerable amount of power loss. So basically there are to many factors contributing to this. I recently saw a dyno sheet over on the 2g forum where one dynod 220HP to the wheels AFTER a S/C!!! He had 100k+ on his odo.

With that said I use to own a 2nd Gen TL-S WDP and I sure do miss it. I think the 2nd Gens just look more Elegant than our 3rd Gens.

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

Woops I feel like an idiot I forgot this thread was about the 2G TL-S. I was referring to the 3G Type S when I was talking about that race. I can see a 3G TL base beating a 2G Type S without to much trouble.
I do remember however seeing that some 3G TL base guys with the 6spd claim to be faster than 07/08 Type S cars which is what I was originally saying I have a hard time believing 6spd or not.

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

^^ I've witnessed a 3G - 6 Speed Base take a 3G Type S Auto. But we're not comparing apples to apples.. a 6 speed will always be quicker. If this was a 6 speed Base to a 6 speed Type S now that's something I wanna see.

PhilB81

well to be honest I'm not sure how the outcome of a base 6spd vs a typeS 6spd can be a surprise. They weigh almost the same both are geared fairly short in my opinion but one has more power and torque. So unless one driver rides the rev limitter or shifts like crap the outcome is fairly obvious to me. Now obviously the base has an option the typeS doesn't and that's a supercharger... But bone stock it's a no contest to me

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

I still wish there were some videos out there of a 6spd base TL against a auto 07/08 Type S. The only way it the 6spd can be faster if the driver is perfect (and most drivers arent) and even if they are perfect drivers that base car still has to overcome the 30hp difference. Is the gearing in the manual car that substantial that it can pull basically the same car with 30 more horse?
Someone out there has to be able to get us a video!!! :-)

lldknyll26

yeah its kind of hard to believe that a base 6spd Tl can take a type S auto. bigger engine and more horsepower is less than or equal to smaller engine and less hp just because its a 6 spd manual? hm.. maybe. Sticks are always quicker than auto so..

phee

iTrader: (5)

stick has less drivetrain loss. the 2nd gen guys are putting 6 speeds in and gaining 20-25hp to the wheels

BigToys32

I have a stock 3G base TL 6spd with 50k and it easily beat my buddies healthy stock 2G type s. no contest what so ever. pulling on him every gear until 5th where i let off. Off the line was a joke where obviously the biggest separation was created but the gap only widened. I went up against my bosses 3G automatic where nearly the same result happened... perhaps even with a larger gap. 6 spd makes a huge difference with this car...

In the end i didnt get this car for the speed as there are many other options i would have chosen. It still puts a smaile on my face tho and has no issues passing on the highway

Burnricers

It's simple, there are only so many variables that come into play in a race. Weight, power/tq, gearing, drag coefficient etc. and when many of these are close as in the 2g type s vs 3g base the 3g should slightly pull with more low end tq, slightly higher hp and comparable gearing. It's not gonna be a devastating win but it should win by a small amount(driver factor withheld of course).

I personally didn't buy this car for a fast car though, there were plenty of better options in the price range for that, my 04 turbo miata would shit all over any TL i've ever seen as it was a low 13 second car. If I wanted something quicker I would have kept that, I got the TL for the luxury/professionalism of it and it can still put a smirk on my face if I punch it. If you want a race car then i'd suggest selling your TL and get something better equipped for the task.

lldknyll26

the OP is 2g TYPES vs 3g TYPE S and everyones comparing about 3g base 6spd vs 3g type s Auto. lol

BigToys32

i guess it just shows that there is not much comparison... and more close to that of the base

6spdtl-s

iTrader: (1)

thats because its already been said that a base 3g 6mt is faster than a 2g 6mt type-s

Heres how I see the 3g base 6mt vs type-s comparison

someone correct me with these numbers if I'm wrong, I havent looked at many dynos.

6mt's = ~15% drivetrain loss
5at's = ~25% drivetrain loss

base = 258 hp
type-s = 286 hp

weights: Im guessing the base weights a bit less than the types, but I wont even consider this right now. Its probably not much anyway.

base 6mt whp = 258*.85 = 219.3
type-s 5at whp = 286*.75 = 214.5

not sure about the loss coefficients but I think they are pretty close.

Regardless, you can see how 6mt vs 5at completely negates any engine advantage the type-s may have.

6mt will also get quicker shifts (theoretically) provided the driver is someone competant and has some experience. 6mt will also get better launches when done right.

So, IMO, this race comes down to the driver. A well-driven base 3g 6mt will hang with a 3g 5at type-s if not SLIGHTLY pull on him given these circumstances.

However, we all know there are so many variables that go into a race so the outcome may not always be like what you think. All other variables aside though, I think what I said holds true.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

Dude...

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

This is pretty much what I saw happen. At initial launch the 6 speed took off ahead but then the TYPE S creeped up a little to close the gap, but regardless, the 6 speed Base won the TYPE S by about 1 car legnth. Very close race.

I raced in Base Auto.. fully stock against 3G Type S Auto that was fully modded with everything except SC and he won by just 1 car legnth. I knew I was going to lose, but I wanted to see how I fared in stock form before I start modding and I was quiet happy, if that was my result against a fully modded TYPE S.

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

Oh I didnt say it was going to be a surprise, its obvious the TYPE S will win, but by how much is the question? Type S has more HP and more displacement but its not such a night and day difference on the street as it's made to be on the forums. This is according to my FIRST HAND experiences and observations.

The difference between a 2G base and 2G TYPE S.. there was more difference if you ask me in outcome of races. Again this I speak from experience not just paper facts.

avs007

Honda makes a sh!tty transmission if the 5AT has 25% loss... When I dynoed my 4AT Pontiac Grand Prix, it only saw 18% loss to the wheels.

PhilB81

hehe, I miss read your post

As far as difference, well with a street race, 30hp on a car that's 3600lbs won't look like that big of a missmatch, you need a 1mile run or something to really see the difference.

As far as the 2G base vs TypeS and 3G base vs TypeS, I would have thought the gap in the 3G would be bigger, simply because of the displacement which if I remember right keeps the hp and torque curve higher throughout the rev range. But the 2G the difference was mostly when ur in Vtec. But then again, I suppose when you race, you are in Vtec

I don't have 1st hand experience with this, so I'll go with your exprience

PhilB81

I think the pontiac was under-rated at the crank.

02type-s

Man, I guess I just imagined it then lol

Vettezilla

I dont care if my 05 TL will get beat by a 2nd gen TL type S I have a Vette and a street bike to cover my S#@t talking if they really wanna see whos boss.

csmeance

The 2nd Gen TL is a bit lighter than the 3rd Gen TL, weight is a pretty big factor in racing!

Also the AT transmissions have about an 18% loss, while the 6MT has about a 10% loss. The 6MT is also 200-300 pounds lighter and has gears much closer to each other.