2007 TLS-when to change plugs?
12-29-2012, 10:26 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
2007 TLS-when to change plugs?
I have a 2007 TLS I just want to know what kind of oil you guys recommend because I have been using Mobil 5/20 and I want to change my plugs too what plugs should I put I have 40k
12-29-2012, 11:08 PM
#3
Mobil makes quite a few oils. 5W20 is perfectly fine, especially for a colder climate. M1 EP, Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra are good oils that are typically reasonably inexpensive and readily available at Walmart. I'd be more worried about the filter than the oil, depending on OCI's. I prefer the Puralator PureOne since its a quality filter at a reasonable price, and easy to get.
I wold change the plugs after about 60-80K. If you plan on running them until the timing belt service, I would at least re torque them.
I wold change the plugs after about 60-80K. If you plan on running them until the timing belt service, I would at least re torque them.
12-30-2012, 12:18 AM
#5
I use Mobil 1 5W-30 with a Purolator filter because both are cheap and readily available. I've had a harder time finding 5W-20 for around the same price as 5W-30.
I changed my spark plugs (Denso SKJ20DR-M11) at the 105k service (timing belt, water pump, thermostat, etc.) since I needed to work near that area anyway.
I changed my spark plugs (Denso SKJ20DR-M11) at the 105k service (timing belt, water pump, thermostat, etc.) since I needed to work near that area anyway.
12-30-2012, 02:02 AM
#6
Senior Moderator
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...rformance.aspx
It's 27 dollars for a 5 quart jug most of the time.
I like to use that until the oil life is 0 on my car (usually 9-10K miles) and use a honda Filtech filter. It can go for a bit longer but when the oil is that cheap and has been used for 9-10K, I rather not take any sort of risk and change it along with the filter.
The filtech filters (A01) are the older style ones with the better materials vs the newer (A02) ones that are made by fram and can be found SUPER cheap at honda dealers. I pay about 5 dollars for mine vs the typical 8 with shipping online!
Be sure to fill them up with new oil when installing and to grease the o-ring with some oil as well!
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12-30-2012, 08:25 AM
#8
3G TL/2G MDX Owner
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spark plugs at the 105k service. NKG iridium plugs only.
5w/20 for oil is the manufacturer recommended oil.
owner's manual?
5w/20 for oil is the manufacturer recommended oil.
owner's manual?
Last edited by TLtrigirl; 12-30-2012 at 08:27 AM.
12-30-2012, 10:04 AM
#10
Race Director
OP, both subjects are discussed ad nauseum in numerous threads... Do a search and you'll find hours of subject material to read..
12-30-2012, 12:18 PM
#11
Amsoil or the German Catrol Syntech. Mobil 1 is NOT a true full Synthetic.
I personally change plugs on all my cars around 10-12k miles regardless of what the manufacturer recommends. Keeps the car running top notch and it's fairly cheap to do them.
I personally change plugs on all my cars around 10-12k miles regardless of what the manufacturer recommends. Keeps the car running top notch and it's fairly cheap to do them.
12-30-2012, 12:31 PM
#12
Moderator
iTrader: (7)
i changed my plugs at around 105k, they still looked in decent condition for the amount of miles. the new ngk iridium plugs felt pretty much the same. goes to show that these plugs dont go bad for a long time
12-30-2012, 02:39 PM
#14
Sure thing, Pal...
Plugs are cheap, maintenance/wear items. Maybe if your paying someone to do them and not doing them yourself it may not be cost effective. Back to back Dyno pulls will also prove this. I've seen 3-5 WHP difference in plugs that were only 5k miles old.
As for the no difference? Why is it then that ALL tuners worth their while have you replace them before tuning?
Plugs are cheap, maintenance/wear items. Maybe if your paying someone to do them and not doing them yourself it may not be cost effective. Back to back Dyno pulls will also prove this. I've seen 3-5 WHP difference in plugs that were only 5k miles old.
As for the no difference? Why is it then that ALL tuners worth their while have you replace them before tuning?
12-30-2012, 04:40 PM
#15
Senior Moderator
Sure thing, Pal...
Plugs are cheap, maintenance/wear items. Maybe if your paying someone to do them and not doing them yourself it may not be cost effective. Back to back Dyno pulls will also prove this. I've seen 3-5 WHP difference in plugs that were only 5k miles old.
As for the no difference? Why is it then that ALL tuners worth their while have you replace them before tuning?
Plugs are cheap, maintenance/wear items. Maybe if your paying someone to do them and not doing them yourself it may not be cost effective. Back to back Dyno pulls will also prove this. I've seen 3-5 WHP difference in plugs that were only 5k miles old.
As for the no difference? Why is it then that ALL tuners worth their while have you replace them before tuning?
You are right, tuners will suggest new plugs during tuning so they can go a step colder or get rid of plugs that may have been fouled up from driving on an untuned car!
3-5WHP differences are negligible on Dyno runs and can't simply be attributed to spark plugs. Factors such as air temps, motor temps, oil wear and tear, dyno error, etc ALL come onto play.
Even if you did back to back dynos with old plugs and new plugs you still would have time for the motor to cool back down, the air temp to change, oil temps to change, dyno rollers expand/contract, etc.
Also to the OP, make sure you check the plugs on your TL-S and make sure they are in to the proper torque spec! Acura had an issue of some of them coming loose due to excessive anti-seize being applied at the factory or for another reason! One guy did end up blowing out a plug and acura picked up the cost to fix it!
12-30-2012, 04:52 PM
#16
Its actually go to a hotter plug when tuning the car leaner... but whatever... it's all semantics right?
3-5 WHP is very negligible, but he said made NO difference. Air intakes make around 3-5 WHP. So yeah, plugs are a lot cheaper than that.
Your also right on Dyno's. Ambient air temp, charge temp, humidity... all factors. However, back to back runs with old vs. new plugs are still going to show a difference. Likely the car is already warmed up, and the maybe 5 minutes tops between runs aren't going to show the oil temp or air temps changing much.
In any case... I'll continue to change my cheap maintenance items. Changing them out also gives me a chance to pull the cover off and examine seals and various other items on the car. That alone is worth the "time and effort" to me.
3-5 WHP is very negligible, but he said made NO difference. Air intakes make around 3-5 WHP. So yeah, plugs are a lot cheaper than that.
Your also right on Dyno's. Ambient air temp, charge temp, humidity... all factors. However, back to back runs with old vs. new plugs are still going to show a difference. Likely the car is already warmed up, and the maybe 5 minutes tops between runs aren't going to show the oil temp or air temps changing much.
In any case... I'll continue to change my cheap maintenance items. Changing them out also gives me a chance to pull the cover off and examine seals and various other items on the car. That alone is worth the "time and effort" to me.
12-30-2012, 06:25 PM
#17
Race Director
This is a stupid fucking argument. On the TL, there's no way you can with any certainty attribute 3-5 HP variation on a dyno to spark plugs or anything else. For the average chassis dyno, any variation less than 5% cannot be readily attributable to any one particular item.
But if you want to spend $180-$400 on spark plugs changing them every 10K based on that, be my guest....
I changed my plugs at 106,500 miles and the gap was still at spec. They were in excellent shape and probably could have gone many more miles. I noticed zero change in performance or mileage after changing my plugs.
But if you want to spend $180-$400 on spark plugs changing them every 10K based on that, be my guest....
I changed my plugs at 106,500 miles and the gap was still at spec. They were in excellent shape and probably could have gone many more miles. I noticed zero change in performance or mileage after changing my plugs.
12-30-2012, 06:35 PM
#18
Senior Moderator
Its actually go to a hotter plug when tuning the car leaner... but whatever... it's all semantics right?
3-5 WHP is very negligible, but he said made NO difference. Air intakes make around 3-5 WHP. So yeah, plugs are a lot cheaper than that.
Your also right on Dyno's. Ambient air temp, charge temp, humidity... all factors. However, back to back runs with old vs. new plugs are still going to show a difference. Likely the car is already warmed up, and the maybe 5 minutes tops between runs aren't going to show the oil temp or air temps changing much.
In any case... I'll continue to change my cheap maintenance items. Changing them out also gives me a chance to pull the cover off and examine seals and various other items on the car. That alone is worth the "time and effort" to me.
3-5 WHP is very negligible, but he said made NO difference. Air intakes make around 3-5 WHP. So yeah, plugs are a lot cheaper than that.
Your also right on Dyno's. Ambient air temp, charge temp, humidity... all factors. However, back to back runs with old vs. new plugs are still going to show a difference. Likely the car is already warmed up, and the maybe 5 minutes tops between runs aren't going to show the oil temp or air temps changing much.
In any case... I'll continue to change my cheap maintenance items. Changing them out also gives me a chance to pull the cover off and examine seals and various other items on the car. That alone is worth the "time and effort" to me.
Intakes make 3-5 WHP that will dyno higher statistically than plugs will. Do 50 dyno's with an intake and 50 runs with only new plugs. The runs with the cold air intake will have a 3-5 Higher WHP average than a stock car with 50 runs. The average for the 50 runs on the plugs will probably be the same as stock with 10K miles.
You can do whatever you please with your car since it's not bothering me! But for the folks looking for information on the longevity of the plugs, it's almost like changing your oil every 3K miles still on a factory car. The oil, and newer synthetics will go 2x time with ease, some will even go 5x that! The same goes with plugs! The days of changing them every oil other oil change are gone! Advancements in Engine management and manufacturing are creating tighter tolerances which allow things such as oil and spark plugs to last longer!
Last edited by csmeance; 12-30-2012 at 06:39 PM.
12-30-2012, 08:43 PM
#19
$400 for a 6 plug replacement? ROFL!!! Dude, that's over $60 a plug. Surely your not paying that right? The MOST expensive I could find Denso or NGK OEM replacement aren't more than $15 a plug. $60 a year is NOTHING.
Once a year for plugs is NOT out of the question, it's all in how YOU maintain your car. I change my oil (Synthetic Amsoil or German Castrol) at 5k. Any longer and your concern is the oil FILTER, not the oil itself. I'll do TB before 105k miles/7 years and so on as well.
You guys are missing the point on the 3-5 WHP due to one comment about plugs making no difference. The point I'm making is purely out of car maintenance not performance. Doing the plugs (assuming you work on the car yourself) gives you a chance to inspect other things you don't normally see with the cover on.
Once a year for plugs is NOT out of the question, it's all in how YOU maintain your car. I change my oil (Synthetic Amsoil or German Castrol) at 5k. Any longer and your concern is the oil FILTER, not the oil itself. I'll do TB before 105k miles/7 years and so on as well.
You guys are missing the point on the 3-5 WHP due to one comment about plugs making no difference. The point I'm making is purely out of car maintenance not performance. Doing the plugs (assuming you work on the car yourself) gives you a chance to inspect other things you don't normally see with the cover on.
Last edited by 00h2itr; 12-30-2012 at 08:45 PM.
12-30-2012, 08:49 PM
#20
Race Director
12-31-2012, 06:52 AM
#21
Sure thing, Pal...
Plugs are cheap, maintenance/wear items. Maybe if your paying someone to do them and not doing them yourself it may not be cost effective. Back to back Dyno pulls will also prove this. I've seen 3-5 WHP difference in plugs that were only 5k miles old.
As for the no difference? Why is it then that ALL tuners worth their while have you replace them before tuning?
Plugs are cheap, maintenance/wear items. Maybe if your paying someone to do them and not doing them yourself it may not be cost effective. Back to back Dyno pulls will also prove this. I've seen 3-5 WHP difference in plugs that were only 5k miles old.
As for the no difference? Why is it then that ALL tuners worth their while have you replace them before tuning?
As a reference, here's something from NGK:
Q: How much of a performance improvement can I expect from changing plugs?
A: A common misconception is that changing spark plugs will result in a large power increase. In most cases, removing even seriously worn out spark plugs will only result in very modest power gains, typically about 1-2% of total engine output. This could be even less for computer-controlled vehicles, primarily because most newer vehicles have more powerful ignition systems and the vehicle's computer can make adjustments so that vehicle operation seems smoother and more seamless.
Many people think that simply supplying more spark to the firing tip can and will combust more fuel. What they don't understand is that most newer cars' engines are so efficient that they are already burning all of the available fuel. Simply adding more spark voltage can't burn more fuel because there is no more fuel to burn.
When a stock or near-stock engine is given a fresh set of spark plugs, peak efficiency is restored. The power gains that come from this restored state of tune are usually minimal. Any company that tells you that their spark plug will provide significant gains in power in a stock or near-stock engine is making blanket statements that may not be supportable.
Maybe you can supply data that refutes the above.
12-31-2012, 07:26 AM
#22
Through various testing, tuners will install plugs in a heat range that they feel are best suited for operation of the modified vehicle, and the more mods the quicker they need to be changed, but as we are speaking of a stock production engine you'll find no benefit in changing the plugs as you've suggested.
As a reference, here's something from NGK:
Q: How much of a performance improvement can I expect from changing plugs?
A: A common misconception is that changing spark plugs will result in a large power increase. In most cases, removing even seriously worn out spark plugs will only result in very modest power gains, typically about 1-2% of total engine output. This could be even less for computer-controlled vehicles, primarily because most newer vehicles have more powerful ignition systems and the vehicle's computer can make adjustments so that vehicle operation seems smoother and more seamless.
Many people think that simply supplying more spark to the firing tip can and will combust more fuel. What they don't understand is that most newer cars' engines are so efficient that they are already burning all of the available fuel. Simply adding more spark voltage can't burn more fuel because there is no more fuel to burn.
When a stock or near-stock engine is given a fresh set of spark plugs, peak efficiency is restored. The power gains that come from this restored state of tune are usually minimal. Any company that tells you that their spark plug will provide significant gains in power in a stock or near-stock engine is making blanket statements that may not be supportable.
Maybe you can supply data that refutes the above.
As a reference, here's something from NGK:
Q: How much of a performance improvement can I expect from changing plugs?
A: A common misconception is that changing spark plugs will result in a large power increase. In most cases, removing even seriously worn out spark plugs will only result in very modest power gains, typically about 1-2% of total engine output. This could be even less for computer-controlled vehicles, primarily because most newer vehicles have more powerful ignition systems and the vehicle's computer can make adjustments so that vehicle operation seems smoother and more seamless.
Many people think that simply supplying more spark to the firing tip can and will combust more fuel. What they don't understand is that most newer cars' engines are so efficient that they are already burning all of the available fuel. Simply adding more spark voltage can't burn more fuel because there is no more fuel to burn.
When a stock or near-stock engine is given a fresh set of spark plugs, peak efficiency is restored. The power gains that come from this restored state of tune are usually minimal. Any company that tells you that their spark plug will provide significant gains in power in a stock or near-stock engine is making blanket statements that may not be supportable.
Maybe you can supply data that refutes the above.
286 WHP x 2% = 5.72 WHP. Again, it's not about the "power" or ton of change here. I also didn't mention that any different plugs from stock are going to cause some crazy HP gains. They aren't going to do that. I'm talking replacing stock plugs.
Peak efficiency is EXACTLY what I mean. Will you feel it in daily driving, nope.
Lastly, and I'll leave at this... Plugs are an item that tell you the motors overall health. When troubleshooting a lot of issues, one of the first things you check are plugs condition. Fuel quality (not octane) can affect your plugs as well. I hope in the 7 years, or 105k miles that they have been checked. It's not uncommon for gas stations to get water in their tanks. This can affect plugs efficiency and overall condition.
YMMV
12-31-2012, 07:44 AM
#23
I changed my plugs at 70,000 miles (currently has 92,000) I didn't notice anything at all, no better MPG or HP. However, the factory installed center plug was LOOSE and ready to launch itself. I would change your plugs at 105,000 miles, if you do it any sooner its a waste of money IMO. But I would at least check & make sure NOW that they are tight.
Oil? Any name brand oil is fine, if you don't mind the added expense I would go with synthetic especially if you plan on keeping your TL a long time. My dealer uses Agip.
Oil? Any name brand oil is fine, if you don't mind the added expense I would go with synthetic especially if you plan on keeping your TL a long time. My dealer uses Agip.
12-31-2012, 07:44 AM
#24
Race Director
12-31-2012, 09:10 AM
#25
Says the guy with "chrome wheels" and "tints" How many times was it tinted, exactly?
Oh, and plug gap WON'T change either after xyz miles unless there's Piston to Valve contact. So your point about that is moot.
Carry on...
Last edited by 00h2itr; 12-31-2012 at 09:18 AM.
12-31-2012, 01:53 PM
#26
You'v actually proven exactly what I was saying.
286 WHP x 2% = 5.72 WHP. Again, it's not about the "power" or ton of change here. I also didn't mention that any different plugs from stock are going to cause some crazy HP gains. They aren't going to do that. I'm talking replacing stock plugs.
Peak efficiency is EXACTLY what I mean. Will you feel it in daily driving, nope.
Lastly, and I'll leave at this... Plugs are an item that tell you the motors overall health. When troubleshooting a lot of issues, one of the first things you check are plugs condition. Fuel quality (not octane) can affect your plugs as well. I hope in the 7 years, or 105k miles that they have been checked. It's not uncommon for gas stations to get water in their tanks. This can affect plugs efficiency and overall condition.
YMMV
286 WHP x 2% = 5.72 WHP. Again, it's not about the "power" or ton of change here. I also didn't mention that any different plugs from stock are going to cause some crazy HP gains. They aren't going to do that. I'm talking replacing stock plugs.
Peak efficiency is EXACTLY what I mean. Will you feel it in daily driving, nope.
Lastly, and I'll leave at this... Plugs are an item that tell you the motors overall health. When troubleshooting a lot of issues, one of the first things you check are plugs condition. Fuel quality (not octane) can affect your plugs as well. I hope in the 7 years, or 105k miles that they have been checked. It's not uncommon for gas stations to get water in their tanks. This can affect plugs efficiency and overall condition.
YMMV
In modern ignition systems removing even seriously worn out spark plugs will only result in very modest power gains, typically about 1-2% of total engine output. This could be even less for computer-controlled vehicles, primarily because most newer vehicles have more powerful ignition systems and the vehicle's computer can make adjustments so that vehicle operation seems smoother and more seamless.
I certainly wouldn't believe anyone would have seriously worn out plugs at 10-12,000 miles, and with the electronic ignition, performance increase will be zero. As stated earlier, you'll see no difference in performance/mileage even when changed at 100k. Through my neglect, I didn't change the plugs in the daughter's Maxima until 140,000 miles, still no problems.
As one of my cars requires a plug change every 6000/7000 miles max, I'm certainly in tune with what performance cars need, but with the TL, as many others have said, the frequency of plug changes at the 10-12,000 mile range is rediculous, but if it makes you happy continue the practice.
01-01-2013, 09:32 PM
#27
Drifting
This is a stupid fucking argument. On the TL, there's no way you can with any certainty attribute 3-5 HP variation on a dyno to spark plugs or anything else. For the average chassis dyno, any variation less than 5% cannot be readily attributable to any one particular item.
But if you want to spend $180-$400 on spark plugs changing them every 10K based on that, be my guest....
I changed my plugs at 106,500 miles and the gap was still at spec. They were in excellent shape and probably could have gone many more miles. I noticed zero change in performance or mileage after changing my plugs.
But if you want to spend $180-$400 on spark plugs changing them every 10K based on that, be my guest....
I changed my plugs at 106,500 miles and the gap was still at spec. They were in excellent shape and probably could have gone many more miles. I noticed zero change in performance or mileage after changing my plugs.
And you are right. Even if spark plugs are sort of dirty, often times you won't feel much, if any, difference in performance because all they do is spark. They just have to spark.. Thats it. They would have to get really messed up before they quit doing that. Today's engines run much better than the older engines. seals are better and bearings are better and I suspect even piston rings are better. All that translates into less oil getting into the combustion chamber which can foul out spark plugs. Of course heat can kill a plug, and other things but you would have some check engine light before all that happened and you would know if something was wrong. So again, I agree, I would not change the plugs unless I had a problem with them. Heck its always possible to do a visual inspection before you buy any new plugs anyway.
Last edited by Chad05TL; 01-01-2013 at 09:41 PM.
01-01-2013, 09:57 PM
#28
Senior Moderator
You'v actually proven exactly what I was saying.
286 WHP x 2% = 5.72 WHP. Again, it's not about the "power" or ton of change here. I also didn't mention that any different plugs from stock are going to cause some crazy HP gains. They aren't going to do that. I'm talking replacing stock plugs.
Peak efficiency is EXACTLY what I mean. Will you feel it in daily driving, nope.
Lastly, and I'll leave at this... Plugs are an item that tell you the motors overall health. When troubleshooting a lot of issues, one of the first things you check are plugs condition. Fuel quality (not octane) can affect your plugs as well. I hope in the 7 years, or 105k miles that they have been checked. It's not uncommon for gas stations to get water in their tanks. This can affect plugs efficiency and overall condition.
YMMV
286 WHP x 2% = 5.72 WHP. Again, it's not about the "power" or ton of change here. I also didn't mention that any different plugs from stock are going to cause some crazy HP gains. They aren't going to do that. I'm talking replacing stock plugs.
Peak efficiency is EXACTLY what I mean. Will you feel it in daily driving, nope.
Lastly, and I'll leave at this... Plugs are an item that tell you the motors overall health. When troubleshooting a lot of issues, one of the first things you check are plugs condition. Fuel quality (not octane) can affect your plugs as well. I hope in the 7 years, or 105k miles that they have been checked. It's not uncommon for gas stations to get water in their tanks. This can affect plugs efficiency and overall condition.
YMMV
But instead if you want useful performance, spend the extra 50 dollars on better tires, better suspension equipment, or just save up and buy some modifications that actually add substantial power!
I changed my plugs at 70,000 miles (currently has 92,000) I didn't notice anything at all, no better MPG or HP. However, the factory installed center plug was LOOSE and ready to launch itself. I would change your plugs at 105,000 miles, if you do it any sooner its a waste of money IMO. But I would at least check & make sure NOW that they are tight.
Oil? Any name brand oil is fine, if you don't mind the added expense I would go with synthetic especially if you plan on keeping your TL a long time. My dealer uses Agip.
Oil? Any name brand oil is fine, if you don't mind the added expense I would go with synthetic especially if you plan on keeping your TL a long time. My dealer uses Agip.
01-01-2013, 10:05 PM
#29
Race Director
And read my signature again: "Huper Optik" says it all
Last edited by nfnsquared; 01-01-2013 at 10:07 PM.
01-03-2013, 08:23 AM
#31
Team Owner
iTrader: (4)
I stick with Mobil 1 5W20.
I did my plugs early. I bought my car at 72K miles and changed the plugs around 80K. I'll do it again when I have my TB changed around 200K. It is a very straight forward DIY. No need to pay a lot of cash for it.
I did my plugs early. I bought my car at 72K miles and changed the plugs around 80K. I'll do it again when I have my TB changed around 200K. It is a very straight forward DIY. No need to pay a lot of cash for it.
01-03-2013, 08:52 AM
#32
Race Director
01-03-2013, 09:47 AM
#34
Race Director
You can register at myacura.com and get access to an online owner's manual. You could also use the forum search function to find your answer, but yes, 6994 is correct.
Click on this line and go to pg 257
Click on this line and go to pg 257
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