bfamaas

Hello,

I recently took my car to Hughes Honda of Warner Robins, GA who I finally let complete a transmission flush. Less than 30 days later, the news is that my transmission needs to be replaced. Can someone please help me justify why the dealership should assume responsibility, if necessary?

Facts:

They claim they did the "owner's manual" recommended drain and fill 3 times.

The Acura dealership which is about 30 minutes away from me said that they would have never offered the service.

When Honda performed a transmission fluid check, they discovered the transmission fluid was "contaminated/burnt."


Is there any other manuals that say not to perform a transmission flush in this situation and possibly not knowing the service history? I've only owned this car for about a year and a half.

Your help is appreciated.

Thanks!

aIRpeACE

iTrader: (2)

it's not recommended to do a flush on Honda/Acura. Just drain and fill.

1KLRTOY

A power flush is not recommended ever, however the factory service manual says to do the flush 3 qts. at a time or a 1X3 or 3X3 etc. If you do a search on this forum there's a wealth of info on the 5A transmission. I changed my pressure switches, trans filter and did a 3X4 flush with a mix of Redline racing (type F) and D4 on my 06 when I bought it with 67k and the trans shifts perfect although it seemed fine with the Acura fluid at the time, but the recommended fluid is not very good and is a cause of some of the problems with the transmission

erdoc48

Unfortunately, if they did the 3 x 3 drain and refill as you requested and the tranny failed shortly thereafter, (30 days later) it will be very difficult to prove fault on the part of the dealership since they have proven their work. It really could be coincidental and it'll be difficult to prove otherwise.

Questions:
-What mileage is your 06 at and was the tranny fluid ever drained previously?
-What symptoms of failure do you currently have?
-Who informed you of the failure (was it the Honda dealer that did the 3 x 3 drain and fill)?
-Why would the Acura dealership have never recommended the service if that's what is in the manual (the 3 x 3 drain and fill)?

Did Honda actually do a tranny 'flush'- it's not clear above.

carbngrytl

I would never do a flush if the fluid has never been changed. I have the Acura dealership do a drain and refill every 2-3 oil changes on my car to keep fresh fluid in the tranny.

LaCostaRacer

If you read the owner's manual, it states that the 3x3 is only needed if you had to add non-recommended ATF into your transmission. You really don't have to do a 3x3 in normal situations.

I remember other people on this forum that have had issues after doing a 3x3 in the past and one theory is the added detergents might loosen some crap up that winds up affecting the tranny. It's really hard to prove one way or the other on the 3x3 and the wisdom of doing it in the first place.

I would rather change the ATF every 20k miles with a 1x3, save the money, and hopefully reduce risk of a failure. You'll at least have more advanced notice if you fluid is burnt or low since you're changing the fluid more frequent than somebody waiting every 60k and doing a 3x3.

Due_Diligence

I always thought it was the other way around. Had a friend do a flush on his civic tranny and a week later it started to slip bad, no prior signs of slipping whatsoever.

LaCostaRacer

^ Honda/Acura does not recommend flushes. If you search on transmission failure, there are people that suffer problems AFTER replacing the ATF.

The problem with this finding is that many people don't maintain the transmission like they should and only change the ATF after the transmission is showing signs of trouble. There's a chance the transmission would have failed in same time frame without a refill, 3x3, or flush.

Capsu!e

As stated do not ever Flush a Honda/Acura Transmission.


And TL's are know for burning AT clutch packs in their transmissions.


They even had an ECU update that detuned the engine so it would save the transmissions.

1KLRTOY

Sure doesn't sound right to never flush a Honda / Acura transmission, it seems as though its the fluid with all the friction modifier in it that breaks down rather quickly is what causes the transmission to die a early death. A high quality fluid like Redline D4 /D6 along with changing the pressure switches will help the transmission to live a long life, but if you have a high mileage trans that has never been serviced your right, don't flush it will probably die rather quickly !

nttstt444

iTrader: (1)

OP - you need to provide some more info. A 3x3 drain and fill and driving/going through each gear in between is how you "flush" a Honda auto trans (if you have a ton of miles on the car iv heard of folks stretching the 3x3 out over the span of a few weeks.) How do you know the trans is done? Did the dealership tell you that? Trans failure is a heavily discussed topic here for 04-06 5 AT TL's, along with fluids. I suggest you run a search as there's a wealth of info here regarding automatic transmission issues.

1KLRTOY

PgLgGrg

Hi all, bringing this back from the dead. I want to do a half- flush, if that makes sense. Instead of draining from the bottom, I want to remove 6QT of old trans fluid by disconnecting the outlet pipe into the radiator into a bucket. I would drain 3qt, add 3qt, drain the other 3 qt and top off. Also open to doing 1-2 qt at a time instead of 3 qt.

I have 6Qt of the honda ATF fluid, so im only changing half the fluid as its all i want to spend right now. . Feel like this is safe enough since im not doing a complete drain and leaving everything dry.

My trans has some slightly jerky shifts 1-2 2-3 and 3-4, as the trans dip stick shows fluid level below the 2 marks. Anything else to consider? 06 3.2L.

thoiboi

that's not a half-flush, that's a 3x3 that is suggested https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...729149/page19/

PgLgGrg

IIRC the 3x3 is draining whatver comes out of the drain bolt (3qt), then filling it with 3qt new ATF. Wait a few days for all fluid to mix up, and then repeat 3x. Have to raise the car, take of panels, etc multiple times for this.

Mine is closer to a 1x6 lol. Drain fluid not from the drain bolt, but the output line going into the radiator. This would be done at one go, so no need to repeat process after a few days. Drain 6qt, fill 6qt of new oil to get 50% new/old fluid which is adequate for me. The manner of how its drained/filled doesnt really matter because everything is already set up (aka no need to raise car, take of drainpan, go drive for a few days), so whether its draining and refilling .5qt at a time or doing all 6qt in one go, the theory is same here. Am i missing something?

People said you get a high % (90%+) of the old fluid out doing a 3x3 (or 4x3). I dont see how that works out since one is supposed to mix the old and new fluid together.
Before change: 100% old fluid or 12/12qt old.
change 1: 75% old or 9/12qt old.
Change 2: 56% old or 6.75/12qt old
change 3: 42% old, 5qt/12 old.
last change: 32% old, 3.8qt/12qt old.

Youd actually have to do 4 more changes to get 90% of the old fluid out, no? (0.75^8=0.10). You get diminishing returns since you also lose new fluid as they mix.

redbeard1

I think your denominator is wrong. If you use 7.4 quarts as the total amount (see attached image), the 3x3 gets out over 90%.

redbeard1

Sorry, I made a mistake. I just worked through the math. The 3x3 gets out closer to 81%. (1-(3/7))^3

PgLgGrg

hmm I swear I’ve been reading the total amount is 12qt and each drain is 3qt. If it’s 7qt total that’s wonderful and makes more sense now. Probably got that 12qt number from 3qt x 4 changes= 12qt needed. Thanks

one change:

PgLgGrg

With the new info redbeard1 provided, fyi:

first 3 at change= 57% old, 43% new
2nd 3qt change= 32.5% old, 67.5% new
3rd change =18.5% old, 81.5% new
4th= 10.5% old, 89.5% new.

first 2 really get most of it out.

still want to know if it’s safe to half flush it via the tube, I’m probably going to drain 1,full 1qt

csmeance

Don't waste your time trying to do it via the tube, it's best to drain from underneath and clean off the magnetic drain plug.

If you really want to change out 100% of the fluid, you can unhook a trans line and have it pump out a few quarts at a time into the bucket and refill the trans with the right amount of new fluid.

El_Cheapo

Old thread, but it reminded me of the time I flushed the tranny on my 2000 V6 Camry. I was a little worried i would not get the flow right, but did it anyway. I never had a problem with it though. Maybe I got lucky.

I would not do it again though.

PgLgGrg

Update:
When I drained mine via the drain plug, I was able to get more than 4.5L worth of the fluid out, instead of 3. After the majority in the oil pan draiend out, i started the car and let it run for 1-2 minutes, shifting through the gears every 10-15secs or so. I did this to get rid of as much excess old fluid as i could. Made a big difference in how much fluid was changed. (3/7L new = 43% new, vs 4.5L/7= 64% new. I only planned to do one change and is why i did this method. I do plan on repeating this a second time though, as i have some leftover.

Another 4.5L drain and fill will get me to 87% new ATF, which is good enough for me now. Driven almost 1,000km and its improved shift smoothness. Still some jerkiness when shifting at lower speeds/when i take my foot off gas.

csmeance

Did you run the trans minus new fluid after draining for 1-2 mins???

PgLgGrg

sorry could you say that in layman’s terms? Not a full car-guy, yet.

After oil pan drained mostly, I then turned on the car, let it run 30secs or so. I could bend down and look at the bottom of the car and ATF was flowing out slowly, but steadily. Then shifted through the gears a few times, letting it idle in each gear to drain.
did This 2-3 times, then turned off the car. Last time I even revved the motor a little and it got some more fluid out. (Idles at 650RPM, maybe I went up to 1100RPM for 2-3seconds each gear.

Filled back 4L or so. And this is maybe what you mean, but I repeated the steps above to allow ATF to get back everywhere. Turned on car, idle, shift to R, wait. Shift to N, etc.

Not saying this is how it should be done, or not. Simply showing that this is what happened.
I did this by just driving up on a barbell bumper plate (2-3 inches thick), and getting under the car. Luckily the previous owner had the Underpanel for the Trans held on by 3 points. One screw I was able to take off by hand near the front, one of those plastic push tabs at the front, and one at the back (which I didn’t touch-the panel was flexible enough for me to put a big bowl to collect the fluid).

I attempted to take off the drain bolt, but holy shit it was stuck on. Needed a mechanic to loosen it when I went to get my exhaust done. So keep that in mind