What's the title/subject of this thread?

Perhaps you should stop reviewing it if the subject bothers you.

 

MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT.......BUT STILL MY TL KICKS ASS, NO MATTER WHAT.


ITS TIME FOR YOU TO GO AND BRAG TO OTHER FORUMS NOW......LITTLE BOY.

 

Why the personal attacks?

I'm not "bragging" about anything.

I'm stating objective facts that are pertinent to the topic of this thread.

 

I think the attacks are the result of some folks getting angry. Your facts are not all that objective. You will never get most people on this forum to agree with you because we are not all that objective about this subject either. It's just that your continously saying yours are "objective facts" without realizing that you are making subjective judgements can seem, well, a little self rightious.

I just traded my 2003 Accord and it was worth every penny to move up. For me, and I presume many others on this forum, the sum total of the "subjectively important" upgrades on the 04 TL is hard to get anywhere near this price. Apparently, if one wants those sort of niceties, one must move into the mid $30,000 range. That price range I think, usually entails more profit margin for all makes.

Another subjective matter: My free time is way too valuable for me to spend it shopping and/or installing mods that I think should have been baked right in. It is worth it to me to pay more for that. I understand that you may feel differently, but your opinions do not define good or bad judgements here.

 

Well said.

There are only two groups of ppl here, agree or disagree. They will bite to each other if things get nasty.

 

I take it that means you won't be paying the dealer an additional ~ $6,200 to install the suspension hardware that SHOULD come from the factory (i.e. A-Spec)

 

This info is based on running a comparison at Acura.com.

TL: $33,195.00 Accord: $26,890 similarily equipped. Difference of $6,305.00

Acura Warranty: 48 mo./50000 mi. with roadside assistance

Honda: 36 mo./36,000 mi. -no assistance

It is hard to put "value" on something when it isn't an option at all. Personally, my time is valuable. I would have to add in the cost of my time and effort to bring the Accord up to the TL's level (and then I still love the look of my TL over the accord!):

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I said, based on Acura.com:

Not Available on Accord:

-Memory seats, mirrors, A/C settings (not a big deal if you don't have two peopled driving but I do)

-heated mirrors (huge deal here in Arizona, LOL)

-Xenon Headlights (now that I've had 'em, I'd never buy another car without 'em)

-30 more Ponies (at least a good chance to spank a G35. This is a pretty high $$$$ value in my book)

-VSA

-extra quietness engineered in.

-Cool engine compartment

-Extra Aerodynamic underbody engineering

-Tires/Wheels (already mentioned, plus you get that cool flat spotting thing, LOL)

-More Passenger Volume, headroom, shoulder room, wider track

-Power lumbar support

-8 speakers instead of six (center channel and subwoofer included)

-DVD audio

-All included with no hassle, priceless.

ACCORD: like McDonald's Over 1 Billion served. Start counting these things next time you are on the freeway. They are like freakin' rabbits. Hey, I'm not knocking it, my 69-year-old father has his 3rd one and he loves'em.

 

I take it that means you won't be paying the dealer an additional ~ $6,200 to install the suspension hardware that SHOULD come from the factory (i.e. A-Spec)


Dude, I do not think that the A -Spec option SHOULD come as standard equipment. That's not for for me. Some of us require a trade off between ride and comfort. You may roll your eyes, but the standard set-up is perfect for me.

As a side note, if someone would please tell me how you copy and paste with that cool "Originally posted by XXXX" statement, it would make my life so much easier. Thanks.

 

But Accords can easily be had @/near dealer invoice.

That isn't the case with the TL.

The difference in real world transaction price is ~ $8K.

 

Whew, figured it out.

 

Then Acura should offer the A-spec suspension/wheels/tires as a reasonably priced (~ $1,500) FACTORY OPTION.

Some of us DO want those things and several TL owners on this site have complained about mismatched springs and dampers. But most of those who do want those things probably aren't willing to pay the dealer ~ $6,200 to partially disassemble a brand new car and replace brand new parts that should have been "right" to begin with.

BMW, Audi and MB offer optional handling packages and many choose them.

Chevrolet offers THREE optional suspension packages on the Corvette!

Acura can't offer 1?

 

Agreed!!

 

Good.

Seriously, they'd sell more of them.

And I generally LIKE the car.

 

Not only did I figure out the cool quote thing, but I became a Newbie as well. Life is good!!

 

Yeah, but then you'd just whine that the TL is not $9800 better than the Accord.

Mike

 

And it wouldn't be...:p

TLs will be available for ~ $500 over dealer invoice in this area within 1 year. The resulting price plus an extra $1,500 for a decent handling package would be quite attractive. That would translate into roughly $32K (6 speed manual/no nav). Such a TL would be worth every cent of $32K.

 

Well for 8k, you also get as stated, to see less of your car, which matters to many people. You get an Acura badge, which some people want to pay more for too. Don't forget the better service your supposed to get with buying an Acura over a Honda.
I do think the new Accord is pretty much a perfect car but if I were 2 choose the 2, I'd get the TL. Very true, the more expensive the car on the less expensive cars platform, the more profit for the carmaker. THat is why GM and Ford loves people buying basically 50k Silverado's with campers (the Escalade/Navigator/Denali/etc). Hell Lexus does it the ES 330 as stated (off the Camry). GM makes I think 30k off every Hummer sold (or is it 20k?)It is a stretched Tahoe chassis.

 

So by such "logic" your complaint that the TL isn't worth $8k over the Accord is baseless, since in one year surely the current car will be only a $6.5k premium at $30.5K out the door.

You're happy with your purchase, I'm happy with mine. You won't convince me that I paid too much; I spent exactly what I meant to spend on this car, as I'm sure you did too.

Mike

 

Gentlemen,
PLEASE! If you don't think the TL is worth more, buy the Accord!
If you like the TL for more money, buy it!
If you want to talk about how much more value there is in the Accord, post it on the Honda Accord Forum! The people on this forum have TL's. For the Accord warriors coming to fight us, quite frankly, we are discussing the TL here. Thank you for your input.
We get it.....thank you.....now please go home.....our decision has been made and if we wanted an Accord we would have gotten one!

 

TL pluses over Accord:

More power ($1000)
Better handling ($1200)
Better interior quality ($1200)
Better stereo w/ 5.1 capability ($300)
Bluetooth phone compatibility ($0)
Memory seat and mirrors ($300)
Driver's seat power lumbar ($100)
Passenger power window auto-up ($100)
Heated side mirrors ($150)
Reverse auto-tilt side mirrors ($100)
Auto-dimming rearview mirror ($150)
Trip computer ($100)
Manual shift automatic ($200)
Stability control ($600)
Brake assist ($300)
Xenon lights ($700)
Fog lights ($200)
Bigger rims ($300)
Longer warranty ($200)
Roadside assistance ($200)
Prestige ($0)
Exclusivity ($300)

Sub-Total ($7700)


TL minuses vs. Accord:

Less passenger space (- $400)
Less trunk space (- $200)
No Fold-down rear seat (- $300)
Worse gas mileage (- $300)
Premium gas required (- $1000)

Sub-Total (- $2200)

Grand Total ($5500)


To me, the TL is worth $5500 more. So there is nothing "objective" about your subjective OPINION that the TL is worth $3000 more.

I plan to get an EX V6, but I can see how the TL can easily be worth $7000 more to some people.

In my area, the EX V6 Sedan is $24,000 and the base TL is $31,000.

 

I am a newbie, expecting delivery of my TL on March 15. My prior two cars were Accords. I can still recall my excitement when I bought a '95 EX-L, manual. That baby was my first really good car and it was head and shoulders above anything else I had ever driven. It was my benchmark. Four years later, my wife's car sputtered out, so I went Accord shopping again and purchased the '99 V-6 EX, which by every measure was a finer car than the '95. However, it was an incremental step up and left me somewhat dissatisfied. It cost several thousand $$ more, but was boring.
Fast forward five years later. I had arrived financially. I frequently drive through the vast New Mexico desert and seek comfort, convenience, low road noise, and yes, some fun in my driving. My next car, I promised myself, would not be another incremental step, but a quantum leap. I had read about the 2003 BMW 530i and took one home over the weekend to test drive. Evem with all of its hoopla, it left me underwhelmed. I drove the 2004 Honda Accord V-6 EX, which had been further refined, but was still not happy. I tested most other cars that the TL competed against and was similary dissatisfied. I waited, knowing that if I were just patient, I would find my car. Then in the fall of 2004, I read the Washington Post article about the 2004 TL, and I took notice, as that was the type of driving experience I craved. Until that moment, it had not even occured to me to buy an Acura, which I considered to be a gussied up Honda. But in late December of 2003, I received my Consumers Report in the mail and read with great interest how they had rated the TL as the best in its class. I immediately went to test drive a TL. During the entire test drive, I had a sh*t eating grin on my face. My friend, the TL is not simply an Accord with a few thousand dollars worth of amenities thrown in to justify the price. The experience of driving an Accord, as fine a car as it is, can not begin to compare with a TL. So when you try to compare the TL with the Accord, you are beginning with a faulty premise: that they are comparable.
And BTW, I have read the reviews of the TL. Without exception, they tout the "value" of the TL, which is directly inopposite to your argument.

 

Not to change the "value" topic, but has anyone test driven the 5-spd 4cyl Accord? I'm still shopping and want to give the Accord it's due dilligence; I just can't find a dealer that has an accord sedan w/o the slushbox!

 

A $6.5K premium with a proper suspension tuning is a heck of a lot better than an $8K premium with the wrong suspension tuning.

 

A $6.5K premium with proper suspension tuning (A spec springs and shocks) is a heck of a lot better than an $8K premium with the wrong suspension tuning.

 

An EX/V6?/Leather Accord for $24K?

That's below dealer cost ($23,754 invoice plus $490 destination charge).

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/hond...num28.1.honda*


What dealership is selling them for that price?

You think 30 HP is worth $1K? Some of that added HP is offset by the TLs 191 pounds of added weight (auto vs auto). You didn't mention that.

"Better handling" is largely attributable to the fact that the car has wider rims. So you're counting the rims twice.

Fog lights aren't included on TLs as they ship from the factory.

 

"An EX/V6?/Leather Accord for $24K? "

Yep (all EX V6's have leather.) That's the going rate, with some haggling of course. Do you mean to say that this is too high or too low?

The Edmunds TMV uses an algorithm that averages all the reported prices in that area. Hence, it includes the prices paid by those unwilling/uncaring to haggle and those that are happy to pay $1000 less than MSRP on a car because they don't know better.

The really useful too is the "Prices Paid" board on Edmunds. There, you can see what the real world, real time prices are for your car in your area. And in my area, the price for an Accord is $24,000.

Also, this is an example of an deal via an internet manager in my area:

http://www.arlhonda.com/frameset2.as...vehicle_search

All EX V6's are $23,954.

 

The dealer pays more than $24,244 for the car ($23,754 invoice plus $490 destination charge).

What dealership is selling them for $24,000?

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/hond...num28.1.honda*

 

1) I don't see where the link you posted says that. It said "updating" when I visited it.

http://www.arlhonda.com/frameset2.as...vehicle_search

2) You neglected to add $710 (destination plus "processing fees"), per the fine print @ the bottom of their link:

"Only tax, tags, $460 or $490 destination (on new vehicles), a $220 processing fee and any dealer installed accessories on the vehicle you select are additional."

 

Try reading my post again, only slower. You'll get it.

Mike
Who's tiring quickly of this pointless discussion.

 

Who knows what the difference will be?

To me, a TL is worth $32.5K max, and that would have to INCLUDE the A spec shocks, springs, alloys and rubber.

 

Honda justifies the TL by failing to offer the 6 speed manual and decent rubber in their Accord EX/V6.:wow:

 

harddrivin1le,


I have more and more repects on you. It's not easy to stand alone and fight all of TLers here. Becuase of your join, our site is getting better and better... it means here is not a place the one says running...

Best Regards.

 

harddrivin,

Under MODEL, pick ACCORD SDN.

Yep, you gotta add $710 to the $23,950, for a total of $24,660, but that is only an example from one dealer. You can always negotiate, and believe me, there are people getting the Accord for $24,000, or a couple hundred bucks above that. When the $24,660 is a no haggle price that includes all dealer fees, you can bet that there are other dealers in the area that will sell the EX V6 for less, with some haggling.

There are reasons why a dealer would selll a car for under invoice. First, the dealer can still make money, since the real cost to the dealer is $23,452 (Invoice minus $752 holdback). Also, a dealer may be willing to sell a car at little or no profit, in order to meet a manufacturer quota incentive, or to receive more profitable vehicles from the manufacturer, such as the Pilot.

 

Thanks to everyone posting here.... It has provided for a few hours of enjoyment. Several of my friends (whom do not own TL's, nor a Honda product) came over to read the posts. Very amusing. One coined it, "As the Automotive World Turns". In one corner, the TL.... in the other, the Accord. Long lost family members who just can't seem to get along... Reminds me of beer commericials from a while back, "Tastes great!" "Less filling!" "TASTES GREAT!" "LESS FILLING!" The only thing we are missing is some naughty oil changes, and some engines rubbing against another's manifold. Tune in next week, kiddies!

 

I've bought perhaps 10 new cars @ or near invoice and readinf Edmunds (hard copy) before the internet existed.

I don't need a lesson.

You misrepresented the deal by $710, so I was correct in my assertion.

You also stated that base TLs can be had for "31,000." What dealership is selling 2004 TLs for 31,000?

 

What exactly did you purchase?

Aren't you the same guy that was telling us how your Ford Countour had a better sorted suspension than a new TL?

 

I had to make the same decision last October, and decided to go with an Accord Auto V6 Nav. I was a low on funds and needed the $8000 (at the time) saved for other things.

Three months later, honestly, Navigation aside, I prefer driving my old Acura CL. The Accord for the most part is a fantastic, reliable, nice people-mover - it doesn't have the extra edginess/sportiness that make driving really fun for me.

Bottomline, and a lot of people have already given you this very good advice
1. If you're seriously having issues deciding, get the Accord, the TL is not for you
2. If you have a financial issues, get the Accord, you may regret spending the extra money
3. If #1 and #2 don't apply to you, and you love driving, get the TL, its the best value out there if you appreciate the driving experience ... and you get a bunch on intangible benefits when you buy an Acura (like contributing to boards like this!)

Paul

 

Did you ever treat your Accord to a simple tire upgrade (to 225/55-16 with a performance compound/tread pattern)? You'd be shocked at how much of an improvement in overall handling that simple, ~ $500 changeover makes. Aftermarket shocks would further improve things without spending a fortune...

And $8,000 is a lot of money to many of those who can truly afford either car.

According to "THE MILLIONAIRE NEXT DOOR" (book), the most popular car among millionaires (defined as having a net worth of $1 million or more) is the Toyota Camry.

Many people that have the money got it by not throwing it away.

 

Thanks Dad....now can I just have the keys to the TL and stop the preaching?