Euliscool

sorry if this has been posted, but i have my TL on order... i was sitting here and read a post saying that the 3 series BMW's are coming out with a new model, so the current models will be sold at a discount since they would want to move the old models... does anyone who have looked at TL's and the 3 series know how much a 330 comparable equipped would cost?

Skeedatl

Carsdirect.com is pretty close to typical market price for cars. You can price your 330 there.

Flanagan

A 330 comparably equipped to a stock TL is close to $40k. TL is $36k with navi.

ndabunka

Since the 3-series is so much smaller, it's not a true comparison for anything but $'s spent. I continue to wonder why people keep comparing it to the 3 instead of the 5 series. If it's just cost, why not consider a $35K TRUCK! I parked next to a new 5-series yesterday. In all respects, it's the same car as our TL. Same wheelbase. Similar interior, Similar appearance, etc. 3-series DOES NOT compare

Skeedatl

I drove a 3-series and it didn't seem that much smaller at least in the front. But had FAR superior road feel. Had I had the money I would have bought a loaded 330 over the TL.

330's are still the benchmark for the near luxury sport sedans.

Lore

Yes, but the backseat is tiny. And your passenger side is much more cramped than on the TL side.

blufox

not trying to hate but everyone's got beamers i wanted to stick out thats why i got the TL. I mean people are still askin me what my car is and i tell them its the new batmobile j/k

jwaters943

As a former BMW owner I will say that Bimmers are nice, but I would take a TL over the 3 series any day of the week (except for an M3). The TL doesn't quite match the sporty RWD nature of the 3 series, but it puts the 3 to shame in nearly all other areas (value, hp, features, interior ergonomics, roominess, etc.).

markb50k

I have owned a 98 528, 02 330, and currently own an 03 M3, and I can safely say after just TWO days with the TL, that the TL is a great car that compares very well with BMWs. I would agree that in the areas jwaters mentions, the TL is ahead of the 3-series. But in some very important aspects, roadfeel, driver feedback, fun to drive, the BMW is still the king IMO.

But who really cares when you are at this level, these cars are both great vehicles and you would have to be an idiot NOT to like these cars.

As for "everyone" owning the 3-series, there is probably a reason for that (its a pretty darn good car). Also, since the BMW E46 bodystyle is getting dated (we are comparing two bodystyles that are 5 years apart), the TL of course will have the more fresh look on the streets, except perhaps when compared to the M3 which seems to always look fresh no matter the year.

Either way, i give a big thumbs up for the TL.

emendez

Ditto. The TL is a fine car, I would even say it's a better luxury car than the 3 series, but as far as sports sedans go, BMW is still the benchmark.

William_B

My boss bought a new 530 with the M dress-up package. Nice looking car. Our parking spots are next to each other at the front of our building. I still get more comments from people than he does .

rets

Well said...

automophile

BMW has spent many years at developing a driver's car. The 3 series is nearly perfect in that respect.

The "driver's" TL is not even a year old! It will be interesting to see what they are like in 5 years!

Ken1997TL

The 3 is a driver's car but to get there, it had to make compromises. Size and price coming mostly to mind. It all depends on preferences and the size of your wallet.

caball88

i own a bmw as well and love their cars because it is the ultimate driving machine. the handling on the car is one of the best. i did compare the 2 cars as well but the acura offered so much more for your money. the 3 series is smaller than the TL and the interior is a little bland now(its been 5 years). what drove me over to the TL besides the bang for buck is the weather in NY. snow and bmw does not mix well when its rwd. you probably don't have that problem. if you do a comparison using acura or bmw's site you will see the two side by side.

DavidNJ

I've had two 5-series. I couldn't deal with the new one: cheap interior, iDrive-me-crazy, strange handling, and price increase.

I've had a lot of time in 3s--the dealer uses them as loaners and our car has been in for around 30 days in the past year.

The 3 is rather nervous. Yes it is responsive. And has pretty good shocks. But as a highway cruiser it just isn't there with the 5 series.

The TL has a shock package closer to the 5, with good steering feel and of course high value.

At 7 tenths and higher, I'm sure the BMW would be better. When was the last time you were at 7 tenths on the street? My guess is never! 7 tenths is still screaching tires and some risk of hitting solid objects.

ndabunka

Lets compare a 3-series to the TL. 3-series is 13.3 INCHES shorter whereas the 5-series is...THE SAME FREAKIN size as the TL. The width of the 3-series is 4 inches skinner whereas the width of the 5-series is ...THE SAME FREAKIN SIZE as the TL. Yea, TL matches up well to the 5-series. I can SURE understand why all these people are comparing it to a 3-series...NOT! Hey, I like Beemers and even owned a 7-series as well as the M-killer form Benz. Great cars all of them but for 50% LESS money than the 5-series and better interior, more gadets, etc AND the abilty to potentially modify the *&^*& out of this car in the future. Darn straight. TL is a nice ride compoared to a 5-series

Turbowhat2

it depends what you want. If you want to sit back, enjoy the music, and know that you have 270 hp on the tap with double wishbone suspension, then get a TL.

If you want that connected to road ultimate driving machine feel, the 3 series is the way to go.

digital_b

its stupid to compare the 3 with the tl when the 530 is the target acura has stated they were shooting at. conceding that the 530 is a better 'driver's' car is fine but there it no non subjective category the 530 beats the tl at head to head. none. just because the 3 series is PRICED like the tl doesnt make it competition in any other way.

Turbowhat2

if i was in the market for a 50-60k car, i would take an M3 > 5 series any day.

digital_b

Ill tell you what. when I see a 530 on the road I am going to SMOKE that fool. maybe then they will understand that the blue propeller isnt worth the 22k more they paid for it. and by the way, is xm and nav available for the 5 series yet?

Oswald Vater

I just test drove a 325i out of curiosity last weekend and had the local dealer (Fields) give me a price just for fun as my 2k TL will be out of lease in a few months. If they are discounting them someone needs to let this dealer know. I could only get them down 500 off MSRP. I didn't even think about pricing a 330 at that rate. Anyway, about the car itself: I loved how it handled but with only 184 horses it is underpowered for my tastes. While build quality was impressive I was not impressed with the spartan interior (as compared to the TL) or the hvac/stereo controls. I must admit that the dealership was way more professional than Acuras. 4 years free maintenence is a tremendous temptation. They also wash your car for free every saturday and serve Haagen-Daaz in their lounge. IMHO, you still can't beat the TL for what it offers for the money. I'll take the calipers over the propeller any day at this price level.

lindros2

I agree with ndabunka -- parked my WDP TL next to a white 530i w/ sport package (or should I say the owner parked his/her car next to mine).

Similar size (530i is a bit wider in the doors), similar greenhouse. 5-series gives more of a sense of "heft".

HOWEVER, note that this non-navigation equipped 530i leases for $850/month + tax. TL ? Nearly half that.

-josh

adam209

damn. bmw bashing? bmw is a good car. no question about it. yes they are overpriced, but they are a driver's car. some can justify spending that money, some can't. both cars have plus' and minus' but as far as saying one car is better than the other, you just can't do it.

VQ35DE

Is the 3-series still considered a subcompact by EPA standards???

emendez

As long as it's on a straight line you'll "smoke that fool"

Save it for the track and remember that straight line performance does not a performance sedan make. The TL cannot hold a candle to the BMW in handling. Period.

digital_b

last I saw, most HIGHWAYS are not straight. I have no intention of racing up and down 2 lane roads. thats idiotic. and whats more I will bet you that most 530 owners wont even drive that car to 6/10 of what it can do anywhere. they just wanted a 'beemer'. and for the record I am not bashing bmw. I love the way the new 5 looks. its just way overpriced for what you get and what you dont. I really like my tl. its the best car I have driven all around. better than the benz e class, better than the bmw 5 and better than the g35 coupe ALL AROUND.

dwhitten

An senior executive at my company traded his 2000 BMW 740i for a 2004 TL. When I asked him about this trade he said that the TL was a better car and that the BMW brand had lost it's appeal to him. This is a guy who could easily afford most any car he wants I am sure.

Vffr1

I was on a test drive with the new 530, and bye the way, I do like BMW, but I'm dissapointed about the lack of power and still trying to get use to the "new" look.

Well, as we hit the freeway on the test drive, there is a new TL on the on-ramp entering at above freeway speed "What the F*** is that!!" I said to the BMW car salesman, he said "That's one of those new TLs" now I'm hooked (now mind you, at this time I own a 2003 TL, but had not seen one driving down the street as of yet or took one for a test ride.

Well, I pulled up next the car, and the TL driver looked quite confident, as he should of, I finished my test drive of the BMW (which handles unbelievable [seems the car was built for the race track] But, I drive on the tame streets of California [hint, hint]). At this point I'm thinking BMW must stand for Big-Money-Waster.

I then high-tail-it to the Acura Dealership (that's one mile down the street) and take that puppy for a ride. I like it too, even more so, and so does my back account. What struck m about the TL, in this order:

1. Nice (Yeap, Yeap, Yeap)
2. Blue lights on dash look kinda-cheap
3. Car is faster then the 530
4. I can afford this car
5. I'll take one

When it comes to comparing the 530 vs the TL, I don't honestly think it is a fair comparision, at least not for the BMW.

Mike Smeezy,

Turbowhat2

well said, i totally agree

digital_b

apparently acura has hit its mark then. the 530 is the bogie. splash one bogie.

Mindcrime

I currently have a 2000 323I and I am planning on trading it in for either a TSX or a TL. There is no doubt that the 3 series has great handling. BMW puts all the money into the handling and it shows. If you are not interested in flying around town in the car then the TL is a nicer car.
The BMW is expensive for what you get.
I paid 34K in 2000 for mine and it has a 170 HP engine, with a crapy stereo, no alarm and no heated seats. I ended up putting $1,600 into upgrading the amps, speakers, and adding a subwoofer just to get the stereo to sound good.

The TL has nice looks, great features and is only $33 without the Nav. How can you beat that?

On top of that Acura has better quality. BMWs have better quality then Audi or American cars but they do have their fair share of issues sometimes. Blinker and break lights burn out all the time, I had to have a new A/C put in under warranty and I had rattles in both doors that were fixed by replacing the window control parts in the door. Many of the current 3 series had these same issues.

BLACK VELVET

As far as comparing the TL to the 3 series.....it's a joke. The comparison should be TSX-3 series.......TL-5 series......RL-7 series. That's how it lines up.

The 3 series.....sucks. I had one, and my TL is WAAAAAAAY better in all catgs. The 3 is too small....to slow.....too outdated. The TL has a much better fit and finish......more options....better styling.....and MUCH more power.

Now the TL to the 5....got to go with the TL. Better looking, better Nav.....better stereo.....more power (than the 530), same size and WAY less money. Way more bang for the buck. If you buy the BMW over the TL....it's just so you can say you drive a BMW....plain and simple shallowness. BMW is a rip off.

By the way.....I would take a TSX over a 3 series as well.

Peeze out

JonDeutsch

We go over this over and over again on this board. The way I see it, it's very simple:

If you value handling performance over luxury, you will likely prefer a G35 or 3/5 series. If you really value handling, you will likely spend an extra $10k for a BMW.

If you value luxury, speed, and fit'n'finish over handling, then the TL is an easy winner in a comparison. Thanks to Acura, people who value luxury, fit'n'finish and speed a bit more than handling prowess now have a fantastic alternative. This is not to say that the 04TL doesn't handle well. It just isn't class-leading handling. I think all the negative reviews come from the fact that the new TL now looks like it should handle really well! That's a feather in the cap of the design team.

People like me (who still haven't decided what they want) feel a bit let down by Acura because we figured the new TL would be deliver the FWD handling wizardry that the TSX reportedly delivered. Unfortunately, Acura had a few more stumbling blocks on the way to that place. You could say that Acura has great engineers, but they can't re-engineer physics. On the other hand, you could also say that Acura could tweak the LSD and really resolve a ton of the 'torque-steer-esque' issues.

And on yet the other hand (yes, I have 3 hands), you could say that Acura should have bit the AWD bullet and just released a proper sports sedan from the get-go, made it a 38k car fully optioned, and really scared the bijeezus out of every other car manufacturer on the planet. Acura probably figured they actually couldn't make enough cars to fill that demand, so they better bake some misgivings into the desgin.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that we can probably put the BMW vs. Acura argument to bed by stating the following truths:

1. If you value handling above luxury and speed, you will probably enjoy a BMW 3/5 more than an Acura TL.
2. If you value performance luxury over handling, you will most definitely enjoy a TL over almost any other car in its class, and even a class or two above.
3. If you value price and handling over other attributes, you'll likely prefer a G35 over a BMW.
4. If you value luxury over overall performance, you will probably enjoy a Lexus ES330 or Mercedes C-series over anything in their class.

I think "truth #2" is really what gets people so excited about the new TL. If you fit that profile, the TL is so competitive that it beats out cars $10 above its price point. That's impressive, and exciting.

If you're like me and want it all, well... you need to make a lot of money, because you ain't gonna get it all for under $50k. If you don't want to spend $50k, well, then you need to figure out your priorities, and pick from the "truths" above.

Jon

digital_b

truth number 4 is bogus. you can get the SAME 'luxury' in a v6 camry as you do in the e330. dont believe it? drive them. c class is a benz. and that all it is. ask around and again drive one. g35 is a very good car but rwd issues aside and boy racer handling issues it is no match for the tl unless all you care about is a stripped one. the bmw points are well said and put to rest.

WhiteTiger

Just bought '04TL Satin Silver, AT, no-nav. I had shopped the 330, 530, and the G35. I drove all 4 a couple of times each, and in my opinion, the TL is better outfitted, more reliable, performance is just as good as the BMWs and better than the G35, and unless your taking it out to a racetrack you will never miss the rear wheel drive. For the price you pay you can't beat it.

JonDeutsch

See? WhiteTiger is Profile #2. He thinks you need to go a racetrack to appreciate the handling of a RWD car. People of profile #1 think RWD exerts itself on an average suburban trip.

That's the difference.

Jon

dwhitten

I guess I need to go drive one of those BMWs because I cannot image how much better it could handle than my 6 speed TL with HPTs. Any maybe I have been driving front-wheel drive cars too long and ignore it, because I have yet to feel any torque steer on this car. I have felt the LSD’s pulsing in the steering wheel on a couple of occasions when I got on the throttle too much in a slow corner. Check out the link below for an interesting video on vtech.net about this topic:

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=197549