neuronbob

Legend production ends at the end of the year. Personally, I would not be surprised if production ends after the 100 Level 3 autonomous cars are produced. And the Sayama plant is closing. Definitely end of an era.

https://www.japanbullet.com/auto-mot...n-not-impacted

It’s been reported in multiple overseas automotive journals.

So…unless Honda is planning a Legend/large sedan replacement we aren’t yet aware of, the Legend shuttles off into history.

Edit: Here’s Nikkei’s take on the news. Honda apparently sold only 216 Legends last year in Japan.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Aut...on-weak-demand

mrgold35

So glad we are all able to grab a piece of future automotive history now for a very underrated vehicle. The RLX/Legend turns head and gets complements more than any current Acura other than the NSX.

phile

I lub my RLX SH. praying it’s reliable down the road. that 5k bill for the steering on the PAWS model in that other thread has be concerned

neuronbob

Two words: extended warranty

phile

how do you get that on a used vehicle?

neuronbob

You can buy Acuracare for a used Acura as long as it’s within the bumper to bumper warranty period. You’ve got a 2018, and if memory serves, you are under 50k miles, so you should be good to go. Multiple online vendors for Acuracare.

phile

ah

rlx015

https://hyannishondaservicecontracts.com/

So far based on my research these guys offer the best pricing...

phile

thanks!

mrgold35

I wonder if the RLX hybrid will appreciate in value +15 years down the road (If the hybrid components are still working). I'm planning to keep my 18 RLX hybrid and 19 MDX hybrid for at least 8-10 more years or 150,000 miles. Maybe Acura/Honda might bring back the RLX/Legend around 2030 (BEV, 500-750 mile range with Ultium batteries, +500 hp/tq, 30 min 100% charge time at home).

rlx015

Totally the same plan of the attack on my end for my '18 RLX SH ... I am a firm believer that retiring models is just a strategic move to allow more ample time to work on a completely new model and then bring back "Legend" in the future. Sure, the new model may be quite different, but I think Legend is in that category of mid to full-size sedans. The new model, my guess will be more of an electric model to compete with other brands... but also, many models are turning to SUVs / Crossovers, etc. ... we'll see

In the meantime, I am so glad I was able to snatch one to serve me in the years to come such an amazing car... the more I drive it, the more I love it!!!

Pens Fan

I leased two RL's built in Sayama and they were bullet proof cars so I am sad to see it is being retired.

neuronbob

The word is that the first Honda BEVs from the Ultium partnership will be in fact, Hondas, rather than Acuras.

It would make more sense to make a high-end Acura version to...um...beta test, kind of as the Sport Hybrids were a beta test before allowing the tech to trickle down to the Honda hybrids....only to die in favor of full electrification.

As for whether the RLX Sport Hybrid will eventually appreciate significantly? Given past experience, no, and I'm kind of sad about that. It's more likely to end up like the 2G RL, the first Honda product with SH-AWD. These languish at the bottom of the depreciation pile despite being something special themselves. Only a high-level Honda nerd like me would want one for his Honda collection.

hondamore

My personal experience is that the ultra rare Acuras do have a cult following among the Honda/Acura loyalists and I've always gotten great deals in selling 10 years after new. This applied to my '95 Legend 6-speed that sold in a day for $500 more than I was asking and my '05 RL which sold for a very high price the day after I traded it in at the dealership where I got my RLX.

I'm up in Canada and these rare gems from Acura are even rarer up here, so they are true, true unicorns. There seems to be enough Honda/Acura buffs that have coveted these cars but have been unable to afford them new or lightly used, but 10 years later are willing to plop down $15000+ to own one. Again, this is just my experience and not necessarily consistent with the depreciation trends seen elsewhere.

Just my two cents.

hondamore

I should add in regard to the post above, that, as referenced in the "highest mileage" thread, I drive very little and both of my previous cars that I mentioned were sold with fewer than 45,000 miles at 10 years old. This likely played a part in the great price that I got when I sold them.

I just thought that information would be pertinent to my previous post.

technocrat

I think low mileage samples of these cars will probably appreciate in the 15+ years span. However practically very few are buying Hybrids to keep them parked, so most wont see much appreciation for most in my opinion. If anything they would become used car gems for most bang for the buck purchase few years down the line.

rlx015

I am thinking they will bring Legend back with full autonomous driving capabilities and very likely full electric .. but they need time to focus on developing it... In next 2-3-4 years many brands will switch to electric models so if they want to stay competitive, they got homework to do ... And branding around "Legend" is not that easily thrown away... I am confident they will bring it back ...

neuronbob

Acura hasn’t used the “Legend” name in North America for 25 years in favor of these European-style alphanumeric names, and the name became was a Japan/East Asia thing only, as we all know.

My dream would be to bring back the name for a high-line pure electric with the Ultium battery. Guy’s gotta dream…

hondamore

Now that the new MDX and TLX (including the Type-S) have launched and had their moment in the sun, I suspect that by the end of the year or early next year we should start to get some trickling of information regarding Acura's new flagship. I also agree with neuronbob that new BEV technology will likely be introduced in the new flagship.

What I really have no idea of is:
- Will the new flagship be a sedan or an SUV? Sedan sales are dropping across the board as people continue to flock to SUV's.
- Will the Legend name reappear? There were rumours years ago about Acura going truly upscale and launching a new Legend Sedan and Legend SUV both in the $80K range. They are having a tough time convincing people to buy the $60K RLX Sport Hybrid that is a wonderful piece of engineering, I can't imagine selling a Honda for $80K would be easy UNLESS the new EV technology is groundbreaking.

We must wait and see what Honda/Acura have in store for us - I'm hoping it is worth the wait.

phile

well I hope it’s a masterpiece so I can buy it used from a little grandma who never drove it.

fiatlux

FIFY, considering that GM is going to be building the next two Honda/Acura EV crossovers.

hondamore

My hope is that the GM BEV products are a stopgap measure by Honda to get something to market quickly while they engineer a "true Honda solution". The BEV market is suddenly hot and Honda was caught with their eggs in the Fuel Cell basket (a superior solution, but the best solution isn't always the one that captures the market). I believe they will continue to work on an elegant, well engineered "Honda" BEV or PHEV while at least having something to offer those that insist that battery powered cars will immediately save the world. This will also give Honda time to see if the average consumer will quickly sour on the BEV craze when they have to charge up for 6 hours on the road or find their range has dropped by 50% in really cold weather.

This would be similar to the way they used an Isuzu-made Passport as Honda's entry into the midsize SUV market while they engineered their own CRV, Pilot and MDX etc. The original Passport was far below normal Honda standards, but the SUV market was so hot they just needed to have a Honda option to sell while they did the detailed and careful engineering of possibly the best SUV's in the world.

Again, just my hope.

mrgold35

We probably need to keep an eye out on new vehicles for Japanese and Chinese markets over the few years. I'm willing to bet they will get the BEV or plug-in hybrid version first before North America. I'm fine with letting them go first to work out the bugs. Plus, it will give North America (mainly USA) more time to gain confidence and acceptance with hybrids, plug-ins, and BEV (higher gas prices will speed that up). Honda/Acura already sells a hybrid version of the CDX/HR-V in China (it is an ASpec+Hybrid).

neuronbob

First Honda BEV will, indeed, be a Honda, likely SUV, and will have an Acura counterpart. From Car and Driver today.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...-announcement/

Figures...

hondamore

Ahhh, but Prologue to what?? That is the question.

Based on that article, it looks like I might be hanging on to my RLX until 2025 or later when Honda/Acura releases their true entry into the EV market.

This sound silly, but I'm actually hoping for an Acura fuel-cell vehicle as my next vehicle. I know there are no hydrogen "stations" right now, but In the early 80's, propane powered cars became popular (because propane was basically a byproduct of gasoline production and was dirt cheap so a lot of people converted their cars/trucks to running on propane). It didn't take long for many of the gas stations to park a big propane tank in their parking lot and start to sell propane. The propane powered vehicles became so popular that the price of propane skyrocketed and the economics to pay for a conversion fell apart and the propane industry went back to supplying people's backyard barbecues. The point of this long-winded post is that, if there are suddenly a lot of fuel cell cars on the roads, it won't take long at all for gasoline companies to start selling hydrogen at their gas stations. Better yet, they can construct a solar-powered hydrogen generating station at each of their gas stations and their cost of production would be the cost of some tap water. People are just so familiar with and used to driving for 400 or 500 miles and then stopping at a station, filling up in a couple of minutes, then driving on for another 400 or 500 miles. I think Honda had it right in focusing their future on hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Unfortunately, similarly to what happened after they launched the Insight hybrid electric vehicle, Tesla came along and offered a sexier "eco-option" and now nobody is screaming that everyone should drive a fuel cell vehicle to save the planet.

Bold prediction, the next Legend will be a kick-ass hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle with amazing power and SHAWD handling. Less bold prediction - there will be one parked in my garage.

wstr75

Speaking of future Honda hybrid vehicles, I’d pay $7.5K more than current Ridgeline RTE-L price for a SH-AWD hybrid version. Awesome performance and great gas mileage.

mk5

Hmmm… l may have an old post from years back on the TLX forums about some vision ppt I found for Honda going electric on a timetable. I will see if I can find that. I was running down Matt Hargett at the time and stumbled upon it. It’s peeled out pretty much what they were doing with EVs and it sounds like what you’re saying is on point with it.

mk5

Found it. More autonomous than EV

neuronbob

Well… Honda is selling 100 level 3 autonomous Legends in Japan, so they are well on their way toward that goal.

mrgold35

I can see it being easier in Japan for Level III compared to North America. I imagine Japan has a very limited set of standards for roads, signs, and hazard markings. The 50 states can sometimes be the collection of 50 countries with something a little different once you cross state lines. Factor in Canada and Mexico and Level III programming really starts to get really complicated.

technocrat

Its Honda, you never know when they will switch gears.
They made Sports Hybrids for flagship and then the MDX & RLX but for their next sports car they went with a turbo v6.
They signed up with GM for Battery platform and even before the vehicles are conceptualized they are leaving that platform and will be building their own, leaving the future of those vehicles hanging.
Also for this case why only 100 cars? If anything makes me feel they are going to re-engineer the L3 components on their new platform

rlx015

Yeah, those 100 cars are rather a guinea pig in terms of exploring what to do with the new model...
I have this notion in my head about all car manufacturers: they produce new platforms and new models to experiment for 1-2-3 years... then redesign it a little bit cosmetically - which are usually better built and more reliable models - and take experiment collected data and apply to future cars... all in all we are just completing their product testing so they can sell more, for bigger profits, and less investment while remaining within established regulatory and safety standards on safety, EPA, etc.

neuronbob

Having beta tested (maybe even alpha tested, LOL?) the Sport Hybrid stuff, I can appreciate the last two posts.

ValdezQ26

honestly, this car looks absolutely terrible with honda badging.

mvl

You might get your wish...
https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-co...hicles-in-2024

hondamore

Hopefully Acura will join the party once the technology of the plug-in FCEV is proven. I think they would have to locate a hydrogen "filling station" at every Honda/Acura dealership or, better yet, sell the vehicle with a home hydrolysis hydrogen generator since no hydrogen refilling infrastructure is yet in place.

I am intrigued by the possibility. Thanks for sharing that.

mrgold35

Imagine a home solar panel powered hydrogen system that can pull moisture from air to make hydrogen fuel for your fuel cell car, power for a tankless gas or electric water heater, electric appliances, and lights. Add in whole house battery storage and sharing the power with the grid if you need push/pull extra power. Hydrogen storage tank in back yard or underground at home can't be any more dangerous than electricity, natural gas/propane, wood/pellet stoves, or fuel heating oils?

Having the ability to charge or re-fuel at home is top on my list for the future of BEV or FCEV.

hondamore

mrgold35, you should be running the country. Your imagined scenario for future hydrogen use would actually make a difference in greenhouse gas emissions rather than the current push to BEV's that are charged with electricity produced in predominantly coal or natural gas powered generation plants and stored in environment-destroying lithium batteries. The current "plan" seems to be aimed at giving the appearance of making a difference rather than actually accomplishing something.

That said, hydrogen still has its warts as well as it is not as energy dense as many current fuels, it's generation and storage have yet to be done with maximum efficientcy etc. Alas, hopefully 10 years from now, hydrogen will be the new gasoline and the current push in carbon nanotube battery technology etc. should make the hydrogen fuel cell future even more efficient and environmentally friendly. I'd love for Honda/Acura to be at the cutting edge of that TRUE change producing the best FCEV in the world and leading the push for hydrogen infrastructure investment.

Now we just need the hydrogen lobbyists to become as well funded as the petroleum and lithium battery lobbyists and maybe a change could actually happen.

Apologies if the above post was too "political", my basic point is that I would love for my next car to be a hydrogen powered FCEV made by Acura.

mrgold35

It usually comes down to "corporations with the most lobbyist in DC always wins". Too much easy money, too many jobs that need/use carbon, national security/defense is 100% dependent on fossil fuels, and billions upon billions of worldwide products dependent on carbon base fuels/products. It will take +100 years and technology that isn't invented yet (or even thought of) to just start to make a dent in our carbon usage. I would be buck naked in the empty field slowly starving if I went 100% carbon free today.

I'm 100% fine with whatever Acura/Honda comes up with with hybrid, PHEV, BEV, or FCEV down the road. It will just mean we now have 99 years to go before we start making a dent.