bbrouillette

Hello all, I wanted to share my recent issue with my 2015 RLX PAWS Advanced and the problem that recently developed with the rear actuators. With no warning they would develop a mind of their own and turn my RLX into a drift car, turning the rear wheels when the steering wheel is pointed straight ahead. The only way to keep the car going straight was to turn the steering wheel in the opposite direction until I could pull off the road. The first time it happened a couple of months ago I dismissed it as a freak one off issue as once I was able to pull off to the side of the road I “Reset” the car by turning off the engine and then restarting. That allowed the car to drive normally. However a couple of weeks ago it happened again and I decided this was a safety issue that needed to be addressed. Fortunately both times the issue happened it was at lower speeds and not while traveling at highway speeds. The dealer ran diagnostics and determined that the rear actuators needed to be replaced. Here begins the good part, the car has fewer than 50,000 mikes but it is 5 months out of warranty and they wanted right at 4k for replacement. I remembered from reading on this forum that there was a TSB 13-041 - P-AWS RTC Actuators Moan When Making Small Turns on my model year along with 2014 and some 2016 models. While I never heard any noise from the actuators the cause of the issue stated in the TSB is there is a lack of fluid in the actuators. My argument is lack of fluid probably caused premature failure of the part and Acura should be doing the right thing and make the repair at no cost. They service manager was very understanding and referred me to Acura customer care to state my case. I called and they opened a case and after a week they came back with a 65 – 35 cost sharing. While this is at least something, I felt that these parts should not fail in less than 50,000 miles. I told them I felt they should do more. They informed me they would see if there was anything else that could be done and after another week they came back and stated that this was the best they could do. So today the car went into the shop for replacement of the actuators which will result in a bill to me for a bit over $1100.00. Acura at least bumped the repair price down to the warranty reimbursement that Acura pays the dealer for in warranty repairs. Hopefully any of you that have the model years affected and are still in your warranty period, and after listening carefully you will begin to hear the “noises” and get your defective actuators replaced free of charge rather than have a potential 4k bill in your future.
I enjoy reading and being informed from all of you that take the time to share on this forum. I felt it was time for me to share too. I have been a loyal and dedicated Acura customer since 2004 and the multiple Acura’s I have owned have been great however in this instance I am disappointed in Acura and see that brand loyalty is not what it used to be.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Sir that is most disappointing to hear. My business partner had a new MB 550 and it had so many electrical gremlins they replaced it under the lemon law, but I am certain that if he was not an attorney, he would not have been provided the "courtesy" as quickly as other customers. He did have to present a strong case to the dealership and their national executives, which was very effective, but even for his situation I am certain that just about anyone else other than a celebrity would have to had fight to have his car replaced. In your situation, based on the mileage it seems that it is a 50-50 if they would extend any courtesy for a repair item. The fact that they did make some kind of offer is good, but their lawyers would argue that if you are out of warranty, you are on your own. It is in writing. If the call comes to slide down the ropes and you are now on the ground, you are on your own with your team at that point. I know it feels like you are being slighted, but it is my understanding that if you are out of warranty, you are on your own. The only caveat is if the specific dealer extends themselves to help you.

Be safe my friend.

George Knighton

Unfortunately, the only two recalls for the RLX were the CMBS adjustment and the headlights.

Dealers were aggressive with the P-AWS actuator TSB, and it is too bad that this owner was not extended that courtesy.

Certainly, we'll be talking about it. I'm not sure it'll do any good, but I'm sure we'll all be talking about his problem.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

sorry to hear; thus why you should never be loyal to a brand... brands dont care about you. they just care about their bottom line.

andysinnh

I started to go down this road with my '17 MDX with the navigation issues (would lose its location without warning). Dealer worked with me for nearly a year as corporate authorized SW update,then replacement of HDD and Nav unit, and then antenna - none resolved the problem. When I then opened a formal case with Acura corporate I saw the runaround starting with lots of pushback to "bring back to dealer and let them diagnose", which they'd done several times. Fortunately I sat down with the dealership owners and various managers and we worked out a deal to move me to a '19 Advance with no $$ penalty to me, given I was only 2 year into my lease. If I had to base my satisfaction based on Acura corporate I'd probably have moved to another brand. But in my case the dealership is really standing up for us and wants to keep us as a customer. If this MDX develops other problems, I will likely consider something different because of the product, not because of dealer support.....

RLX-Sport Hybrid

We are at 30,000 miles in on the 17 MDX Sport Hybrid and it has been flawless. Other than fluid changes, cabin and air filters, one set of wiper blades, and a set of tires recently, it has performed beautifully. I don't see the normal maintenance stuff as issues. In many ways I enjoy driving it more than the RLX Sport Hybrid for a long trip. However the power difference between the two is very obvious. There are many more cars that are more powerful, but in everyday driving it is hard to see how more power is really usable. There is only so much thrust one can use in traffic and local roads realistically.

KenRLX

Indeed it is disconcerting to have the car 'drift' unexpectedly, as well as definitely unsafe at any speed.
However, this could be something besides the actuators. The actuators are commanded by the computer based on steering wheel angle, speed, and other inputs. Any of those other items may be causing improper signalling to the otherwise operable actuator assemblies. Even dirty connections to the actuators or steering wheel or others could be an issue.
Hopefully this does not happen again and the existing 'fix' works. Also watch for excessive rear tire wear - this could be an indication of systematic errors in the actuator position which changes the rear alignment in ways not intended.

hondamore

I was thinking the exact opposite to this statement. I believe that because of bbrouillette's loyalty to Acura that they stepped up and saved him $3000 on the repair - no small gesture on Acura's part. Once your warranty is up, the company doesn't have to pay anything, but Acura made the effort to help because of the brand loyalty shown to them. If the same car had the same issues but was bought used by someone who had never owned an Acura before, then I believe Acura would have simply said, sorry, your warranty is expired.

All of that said, bbrouillette is right that such an issue should not occur so early in a car's "life" and I believe Acura has learned their lesson in rushing to bring a car to market. Remember that the design/testing and launch of the PAWS RLX was rushed because of the cancellation of the "Top Tier" program due to the global crash of 2008. The intended replacement for the RL was going to be an $80K, V10 powered beast meant to compete with the German brands, but the financial meltdown left Acura scrambling to redesign something to replace the RL and the RLX/Legend Sport Hybrid was chosen. Unfortunately, the complexity of the Sport Hybrid system took longer than expected to get ready for market and so they rushed the PAWS version into production.

Just my two cents.

bbrouillette

Thanks to all that replied. Just to be clear I am grateful that I received some consideration from Acura Customer Care, my disappointment lies in the fact Acura knew the actuators had a problem and chose to address it with only a TSB and not a recall. Had it not been for this forum and its users postings I would have never even known about the TSB to even bring it up in the first place. I guess that with such low overall production numbers of the RLX, Acura choose to deal with the issue on a case by case basis with the TSB release rather then a recall. I also wanted to let others that are members or just readers of this forum to take note of problems that other owners have had and the TSB posted and make sure that if you are still in warranty and have any notion of similar problem to take it up with the dealer to avoid a potential large repair bill down the road.
I do want to give a shout out to the dealer I have been working with, Harper Acura of Knoxville. I recently relocated to the area and had never stepped foot into this location and from the start they were more than courteous and helpful. They provided me a loaner for the initial diagnosis as well as one yesterday when my car went in for the repair. My previous dealer only had provided loaners for warranty work or recalls in the past. I was pleasantly surprised at the high level of concern and service they provided. While I have only a couple of other Acura dealers I have dealt with in the past these guys are the best! They have a least kept the MDX Sport Hybrid on the short list for my wife's next vehicle. Had it not been for their actions I probably would have removed it from my list. More to come soon. Again thanks to all that participate on this forum.

mk5

Sorry to barge in here, but something doesn't smell right to me here. You are driving down the road and, through no fault of your own, your rear wheels decide they want to sporadically turn to the right or to the left when you are driving in a straight line

I would be interested in learning more facts. With just this story and the diagnosis of faulty rear actuators, this seems like a major hazard for this vehicle. TSB or not, drifting is not moaning. Thank goodness you were not at a highway speed or in an area where there were kids on bicycles or something to that effect.

The rear actuators do not seem to me to be a regularly serviced part--you're not going to have then serviced at a A1 or B1. Warranty or not, ask Ford how that whole Firestone thing turned out. Or Toyota how that whole sticking accelerator thing turned out. If the car is exhibiting behavior that is dangerous to the driver or to the general public, Acura needs to step in and make this right.

Imagine if you are on the highway, this happens, and you wind up clipping the car next to you, causing an accident. The person in the other car sues you for injuries. What are you going to do? Point the finger at Acura, that's what. And if that's the case, they need to handle it.

KenRLX

^^^ Yep!!!
It does cause me to wonder if it would be wise to disable the rear actuators and/or replace them with solid links from the hybrid version that has no actuators.
The PAWS rear steering works at all speeds... low speeds are opposite direction to reduce turn radius, and same direction as steering wheel at high speeds. Hybrids get a similar effect from the 4 wheel drive stability software.

I do agree that the TSB to deal with the moaning of the gears in the actuator is entirely separate from actuators moving around randomly. One is an irritating noise problem, the other far more serious.

OP... Do let us know if that erratic actuator problem occurs again!

George Knighton

I'm not sure.

Maybe the original poster's problem is the result of the original dealership ignoring the TSB.

Because it was not a recall, the waited for owners to complain about it. We don't really know what would be the end result of an owner who just never noticed the moan, or who believed the moan was normal operation.

If the moan were indicative of unusual, accelerated wear...who knows....

miner

My actuators on my '14 PAWS were replaced twice. When I traded for a SHawd in '17 I could start to hear noises again. Car had 28xxx miles on it then.

TSX69

Hello & thank you for the tip. I too have been an Acura owner since 2004 & so far my 2014 RLX PAWS has given me no issues. My family has owned 5 Acuras so far we have been lucky enough to never need major repairs.

From my service experience, I have noticed that a lot has to do with the dealership. Our 2017 MDX Sport Hybrid has that non-flush gas cap issues & 1 dealership keeps giving us the run around about fixing it. By chance we were at another dealership this past weekend & they already have the part ordered & want to schedule a time to fix it. They said that our VIN does not fall under the service bulletin (which is probably the issue the other dealership had but it still does not excuse their inability to communicate) but he finagled it anyhow for us under warranty.

Probably car shopping next year & not sure if there is another Acura in our future as they have such a limited selection.

neuronbob

Reminds me of my RLX Sport Hybrid experience. It was my Acura dealer that stepped up to the plate and helped me deal with Acura corporate. If I had to rate my Acura experience based only on my interactions with the corporate office, I'd have permanently moved to another brand. My dealer helped me out a great deal, and as a result they earned more business from me. As to whether I stay with Acura in the future...we'll see. I'm awaiting the new TLX (Type S) before I decide. Regardless, my dealer has a customer for life, and even if I don't buy another Acura this time around, I'll at least be there regularly with my NSX for service.

MuGen7Modulo

Glad to hear that Bob. Name of the dealership please

hsha

First of all thanks to OP on this issue. The symptom sounds just like mine. I took it to dealer and they documented, only thing they said was they had to do a 4 wheel alignment and reset some sensors etc. I got the car and was relieved issue was gone.....until i drove it out of state and the problem occured again WITHOUT warning signs. I do hear the moaning sound from my right rear wheel/tire area, def sounds like actuators. I am escelating this issue with Acura as my kids and wife were in the car and it is just not right for my car to do that without warning signs. How can they create a TSB on this and not even address it on mass scale given the hazardous situation this can cause. This is a really dangerous and reckless issue, it's not something silly like "my xm radio is not working", the car is literally taking steering on its own without any warning to the driver.

Triaque

Friendly advice to deal with Honda’s Lawyers. Keep a GoPro camera on at all times in your car and record the view in front and get shots of the instrument panel in process. Otherwise it’s a case of your word against their lawyers. A few whole families would have to die, unfortunately, before Honda/Acura will blink an eye because their interests in the matter are not the same as yours.

xjokerz

Yikes and I wanted this car. Thanks for the heads up!

hsha

Do you guys know of any techs for Acura, or any on this board. I have a list of DTC does I wanted to review that popped up for the PAWS

Ludepower

When you say squeaky tailgate does that mean a moaning sound tailgate?

Thats my only issue and the dealership twice now hasn’t corrected it. First time they lubed it and second time they changed the seal.

Am I being annoying asking them again to fix it? Anyone know the real problem is? It’s a suction cup pop noise when opening then a moaning motor noise when the tailgate rises up.

Patsygirl

Thank you so much for posting. We have had this problem for years with our 2014 Acura RLX and dealership never fixed the problem. One soft grade update in 2020 helped for awhile. Recently it happened more severely, 3 times within 3-4 miles and I was terrified because I had no control of the car for a few seconds. each time. We towed it to the dealer immediately that day on Sept 8, 2023 and they mentioned the bulletin just came out in August 2023 for the actuators (no charge) to be replaced if there was this problem. However there are no actuators in the whole Country and I guess the whole world because there are none to be found and maybe in January 2024 they MAY be available. We have no car and Dealership and Corporate will do nothing for us. I have had 9 Acura's/Hondas since 1985 loved and was loyal to the Honda/Acura Brand but not so much anymore.
Was thinking of 2020 MDX but they are having scary, dangerous accelerating and pausing problems so don't want to buy another Acura with chance of serious problems.

1186KA9

Huh. Was there DTCs in the system when it failed? Asking cause both of the actuators has issues in hot weather, but there no DTCs. If there wasn't did they replace the actuators under warranty?

rlx015

As many brands, the quality of Acura (aka Honda) is not what it used to be... FACT. However, I think the downgrade in quality is across the board, so, I am sort of still sticking with Acura for now... who knows what happens in the next few years.
My suggestion? Try to see if it is a simple and easy fix... if not, replace it with something else...

neuronbob

The actuator issue is a TSB, not a recall, my guess why the dealer didn’t help with a loaner vehicle. Since PAWS owners are looking for new actuators, the supply is likely low. Sucks for sure, especially since your car can’t be driven safely.