ILX (2016) is at the very bottom of the list, with 41% saying they'd buy again. RLX is 9th least satisfying with 50% saying they'd buy again. OUCH for Acura, and how far they've fallen. I know I responded to the survey so my data is in there somewhere. Data released on 12/22.

Here's hoping Acura can get its act together for its sedans. To be ranked at the bottom with Fiat/Chrysler has to be humiliating and heads had better be rolling in Torrance.

If you have access, here's the article.
Owner Satisfaction: Cars That Owners Love and Hate - Consumer Reports

 

Last week my servicing Acura dealer, Pohanka Acura (Chantilly Virginia) had an absolutely pristine 1992 Legend 5 speed Coupe with 31k - 1 owner miles sitting on the showroom floor.. Having been fortunate enough to have driven a new 1991 Legend Coupe 25 years ago, the Legend on the showroom floor really brought back great memories of Acura. Acura was a very different brand then and so were their cars. Honda has really taken their eye off Acura for the past 20 years. I love my 2012 RL and it is absolutely bullet proof (put 173k miles on my 2006 RL). But most likely my next car will be an Audi. I get as excited to drive my sister's 2015 A3 Prestige as I did the Legend 25 years ago. The Audi reliability and dealer service are not quite up to Acura's, but Audi's sheer driving enjoyment and stellar design are enough to win me over.

Pohanka sold the Legend couple immediately (over the net) sight unseen to a current Legend owner and shipping it out to him in California. I was told it sold for around $16k. Even the original leather was pristine on this coupe. What a stunning design that car was. I was sorry not to have the opportunity to buy it myself.

 

I understand that Acura puts out understated cars, but in this crowded segment, Acura needs to step it up

 

The way that the ILX is configured, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

They should be selling it as a performance, upscale alternative to the economy cars. Sort of the way that in the past, people looking at the Civic might've also wondered about splurging for an Integra or Prelude.

But to get the ILX ahead in that crowd, they'd certainly have to configure it differently. All the parts are already there and available, like the Torsen axle that they continue to use on the Civic Si....

 

Do we know each other from a Honda or NASA past?

 

The RLX's reputation is STILL being hurt by the early troubles of the "rushed to market" PAWS version. I still wonder what the reception to the RLX would have been had they waited to work all the bugs out and released the Sport Hybrid version FIRST, If this forum is any indication, the reviews would have been overwhelmingly positive, the tarnished image never would have materialized and the RLX would have CR approval numbers closer to the good old days of the Legend. Alas, hindsight is always 20/20 and we all live with our mistakes.

 

This has to be rock bottom for Acura, at least for the sedan portfolio. Hopefully they will respond the way Honda did with the last gen Civic. Honda did an emergency MMC that addressed most issues, then built on it with the current gen Civic. They need to do the same for the RLX in response to this. Maybe Honda will finally free up some funds so Acura can get the job done right, the way it used to. I know Acura follows the beat of its own drum, but its sedans are currently not competitive. Let's hope Acura does something urgently to make the RLX more competitive.

For the record, I am largely satisfied with my RLX but it could use a few more tech bits to catch up with the competition, and I did ding the fuel economy when I answered the CR questionnaire.

 

Bob - Does CR distinguish between PAWS and SH-AWD for this ranking? I would be flabbergasted if the 50% included many SH-AWD owners and if it does, the PAWS number must have been far less than 50%. I assume the SH-AWD owners who may be included were happier than 50%. I don't subscribe, but I would have said I'd be "more than" likely to buy again!

 

CR doesn't differentiate PAWS and Sport Hybrid in their rankings. The number of hybrid owners who are also CR members is so small that a couple of happy votes can't negate hundreds of negative votes.

 

Even if I am so happy that I voted 1,000 times?

 

Honda really needs to improve all of their sedan offerings so that they are fully competitive with the other manufacturers vehicles. With all of the competition in the auto marketplace an average car is not going to be successful. As Bob said Honda fixed the Civic so they for sure know how to correct missteps.The RLX and TLX have many excellent aspects but the overall product is coming up short and hopefully will be addressed very soon. The ILX needs a complete overhaul and should aim to surpass the Civic which is now extremely successful-I see them all over the place.

 

I'm purchasing an ILX for my mother in a few weeks, as her current one has served her very well, so she has every expectation it will do the same for the new one. For some buyers like her, the ILX is almost more than she needs or wants. She thinks the RLX is way to large for her tastes.

 

@Pens Fan, one of the reasons Honda corrected the Civic so quickly is that the Civic is a bread and butter product that, if poor, would lose Honda a lot of sales and money. The RLX is quite obviously not a high priority for Honda or Acura, so as much as it needs an emergency MMC, Honda likely will not contribute money to the effort. I hope they do, I really do, but given past behavior I have no confidence that they will.

 

I'm also skeptical and disheartened. The ILX, TLX, RLX was supposed to be the step-up / money spent / improvement from the old line: TSX, TL, and RL, but Acura squandered the opportunity. Reading Acurazine, I know it shouldn't, but CR's ranking of Acura actually surprised me.

 

Correction to my last post: I'm replacing her TSX with an ILX.

 

This isn't surprising, Forbes dinged the RLX earlier this year as one of the top 10 cars to avoid. No matter, the second gen car wasn't well received either as the years went on but we all know how great of a car it is through 2012. I have nothing but positive things to say about my 05. Reports like this will make it even cheaper for me to pick up a 16 SH in 2018 if I can part with my 05.

i don't have access to CR, but what were the major complaints?

 

last night, I was like...dang, RLX-SH's momma has $$$, replacing an ILX already

 

For the sake of being a Devil's Advocate, maybe we are dealing with the Law of Diminishing Returns particularly when experiencing new wow factor moments. It is hard to deliver the next leg up in new consumer desired features, having them work well while simultaneously meeting all the constraints set forth for fuel mileage, collision safety, etc. Look at patents granted over the years and the advancement differential needed to be granted a patent in a particular field has uniformly shrunk to ever smaller incremental advancements being worthy of achieving patent status. Cars have been in production since, 1896?, 121 years? Maybe we have the mental illusion of the feeling of significance (WOW factor) acquired from our formative days (for me the 1960s when cars changed looks every year) and thus we are not "feeling" the joy of today's small steps in improvements. A long way of saying, "Hey, we humans need a big adrenaline or caffeine jolt to bring a smile on our faces and these small steps aren't getting us over the threshold!"

Merry Christmas to all my friends on this site!

 

hyundai and kia are providing that wow factor, and every other manufacture to boot.

 

Who's at the top of the CR list in the RL category?

 

You mean all 20 of the hybrid owners in the entire US? This car is more exotic than a Lamborghini and statistically insignificant, even if 100% of the hybrid owners love their cars.

If the RLX had a Lexus badge, I imagine buyers will have no problem paying even $70k for the Sport Hybrid. With an Acura badge, anything over $40k is a tough sell.

 

Until you have a chance to own and enjoy one, passing judgement may be misplaced. I can't say I would pay $70k for one, but anything in the 50's for either the Tech or Advance models seems about right.

 

Very true. The Sport Hybrid is a tech connoisseur's car; buyers are purchasing it based on 100% technical merit and 0% fluff or badge prestige. It's like the computer geek who spends $2k on SSD drives alone on a home computer (yes, I built this in a Lightroom powerhouse workstation as a gift for someone else), but no casual observer can tell the difference.

 

Tesla Model S, 94% would buy again

 

In addition, I don't believe they are differentiating the 2014 RLX P-AWS, which had obvious suspension problems, from the serial improvement in the 2015 and 2016. At least I saw no indication of awareness of the changes. The problems with the 2014 year car suspension, and the the complex infotainment complex seems to have single handedly damaged the reputation of the RLX.

As mentioned above, the improvements in cars are really out on an asymptote. But all cars have compromises, and there was a benefit to sporty handling with the 2014 RLX set up, from what I can understand. It's just that most people buying this vehicle weren't really looking for the cornering excellence at the cost of daily ride. And now the competition is routinely offering variable suspension (though early versions of variable suspension seemed to offer no sweet spot, if you ask me, but that seems to be solved; the magnetic suspension in the 2015 Chevy (Holden) SS I drove was fantastic). Just to disprove that assessment, however, I believe Car and Driver has suggested that the the fixed Suspension on the new American version Audi Q7 is better than the variable air suspension offered in the Euro version.

A good suspension set up is a joy, but sometimes taken for granted until you experience a bad one. It may take an MMC or full model redesign before people give the car a fair re-evaluation.

 

CR ask you about the car's configuration in a way that would allow them to differentiate between the KC1 and KC2; however, they would have to get enough total responses from KC2 owners to be able to draw statistically viable conclusions.

 

CR has only officially test driven the 2014 PAWS. They have never road-tested a Sport Hybrid, and have not tested either version of the 2016 or 2017 RLX, so their current opinion on the RLX is based on old data.

They did ask which varity of RLX I drove in the survey, IIRC. As I said above, there are likely not enough KC2 owners in the CR sample to make a difference in the outcome. If there are enough KC1 owners who didn't like the car, that's what drives the numbers. We see the same on this forum. It doesn't change the fact that Acura needs to sort this out in a hurry, and at the minimum offer CR a road test for the Sport Hybrid. Then again, I'm just a doctor. What do I know, other than about brains?

All can be forgiven with a TT V6 hybrid sedan looking somewhat like the Precision Concept.....

 

Yeah, marketing must be harder than being a neurologist. After all, the neurologic functions are just a mass of hard wiring, interconnected with synapses with floating neurotransmitters looking for receptors, dependent on myelination for insulation in the right places, and some blood flow to keep it all alive. Oh the wiring is complex, the schematic is a tough one, but it's still all there in black and white.

Human taste, on the other hand, is an ethereal reality often based on marketing and whimsy, with some fad driven by actors and athletes, mostly. Funny how the first is at the foundation of the other, but the latter is what drives the economy.

CR admits they had not driven the 2016. What can we say? There is no time to drive all cars every year. There was a a chance at a first impression, and it's not going to change very easily. But the compromise of ride comfort vs sporty handling was not guessed at correctly by the set up guys. We were out of vogue before we started.

 

We regularly (a few times per year) get an ILX loaner when we drop off our RDX or MDX for scheduled maintenance. Most recently our Acura dealer gave us a 2016 ILX last week when DW took our new RLX SH back to deliver/install a few punch list items (weather mats, appliqués, etc) ....And also an oil change at 750 miles which I admit is unnecessary but I've done it for every new car I've ever owned and I'm not stopping now! But that's another thread). ILX was a pretty unimaginative car. Didn't even have Navigation. Seriously?

So I feel experienced enough to say that the ILX is an underpowered poser of an entry level luxury car. The new Civic is better looking inside and out. The new Civic hatchback is a really nice addition to Honda's line-up, and the Type R street racer on the way will be a classic. And I'm not even talking about ILX versus Lexus 250. Why is his relevant to OP? Because it's more evidence of what I view as sub-optimal brand management of Acura product line as a whole. Problems with the ILX dilute the value of the ILx until Acura gets out and fixes with MMC update. Similarly, problems with the P-AWS dilute the value of the RLX AWD Hybrid. What do you think the CR report does to the resale value of a Sport Hybrid RLX?

PROBLEMS WITH THE BRAND DILUTE THE VALUE OF ALL THE CARS IN BRAND, regardless of how good an individual model is. Sound familiar? This is a big issue with the RLX.

Acura is coasting on the success of MDX, and now has a hit with the RDX .... but hasn't had a segment-leading sedan ever. Hasn't even had a segment-leading-competitive sedan since what? The RL? Or maybe even the Legend. I believe the Sport Hybrid will change this, now that they are being priced competitively, but jury is still out. There's a reason Acura has to knock ten grand off the sticker price to sell RLXs. And part of the reason is lack of differentiation from the superb line-up of Honda cars.

IMO here's the line-up Acura should have already:
- MMC Refreshed ILX with the Turbo 4-Cylinder engine.
- TLX with 6-Cylnder across the board, only AWD vs FWD for power train option. NO FOUR-BANGER! And the "GT" Sport Kit should be real perforance upgrade, not just more shiny heavy plastic. 4-Cyl powerplant makes it a rebadged Accord, and a lesser car than the Accord Hybrid or V6 Touring Edition.
- TLX wagon with V6 and simlar AWD as the RDX i.e. Not full blown super handling all wheel drive, but more weather-friendly than FWD. I'd buy one today.
- ZDX coupe ala RLX Sport Hybrid 3-door hatchback!
- MDX and RDX are superb as is!
- RLX In SH-AWD Hybrid only. THe RLX FWD PAWS is too close to the Accord Touring V6 and TLX to be priced $15-20K higher at MSRP.
- Precison Concept Car on the way to bridge the gap in a true sports car midway between TLX GT and the NSX.
- NSX. (Wow, by the way).

But that's just me thinking out loud. Your opinions may be different and I'm cool with that.

 

As Bob mentioned earlier in the thread, the CR recommendation (not recommended) and nags (many I personally agree with) were based on the 2014 PAWS model, an early build at that. And although Honda / Acura reacted (the JDM LEGEND launch was delayed to address quality issues - CEO changed, etc) the fate of the RLX was sealed. And not being a car of volume, there is no point for CR to re-test the car. That CR report was cloned into various other publications (i.e. Forbes), even as the 2015 & 2016 MYs were in progress. No matter that the SH has received almost unanimous praise in reviews, the model is not going to be promoted nor produced in anything but niche volume.

However, if you look at the MY ratings in CR, the 2015 MY shows a significant improvement in reliability ratings and likely would trend higher from 2016 MY where most of the nags were addressed. So at least there is improved response from owners, but it will not be enough for CR to acknowledge or Acura to promote. The RLX has reached it's pinnacle with the 2016 /2017 MY (no changes made between these two MYs). And until the car receives a significant MMC or a FMC I do not see anything being done outside the typical revised front and rear fascias, and content packaging.

 

I don't believe CR has ever tested a KC2, has it?

I remember the look on the face of the woman who was talking about the early KC1 they were testing, and I knew they'd already established a dislike for the vehicle.

But the statistics are what they are.

In 2013, the dual screen design was advance thinking, and the kinds of functionality that they tried to provide were cutting edge. If you're going to throw things like that at people, you have to be sure that they work right.

They made it a centerpiece of the car's design, and it was just too buggy.

It was so important to the people who bought the car that they've really panned it in the surveys.

They do not get enough KC2 responses to surveys to be able to distinguish between the KC1 and KC2 responses.

If Acura has accomplished nothing else with the KC1, they have destroyed for all time the mythology surrounding the evidently anecdotal and apocryphal superiority of Japanese built automobiles. :-)

 

Sometimes what happens is that a model's rankings will improve in the last couple of years of its production, as the owners and CR realize the overall reliability of the major systems, and this tends to offset irritations concerning the touch screens or squeaky steering wheels.

In the longer run, we might get a surprise with the RLX, just as we did with the 4G TL when people began to realize that the long term reliability offset the car's ugliness [sic].

None of that helps Honda sell cars when they want to sell them.

 

[QUOTE] In the longer run, we might get a surprise with the RLX, just as we did with the 4G TL when people began to realize that the long term reliability offset the car's ugliness... [QUOTE]

Although my plan is to keep the car long term (provided it continues to impress me with the reliability I am experiencing) I have some hope the car will also turn out to be a sleeper in desirability. With so few being built and being more rare than the NSX - perhaps SH will develop a following and our RLX SHs will, in retrospect, become a desired rarity If that happens and how long that may take to happen, I would hope I still own mine..

 

Maybe.

A stock ITR has certainly kept its value. Even in 2017, a totally stock and well kept ITR would sell for about what the MSRP would've been in 1997-2001.

 

[QUOTE=TampaRLX-SH;15943636][QUOTE] In the longer run, we might get a surprise with the RLX, just as we did with the 4G TL when people began to realize that the long term reliability offset the car's ugliness... In 1995, Acura had a hard time selling the Legend Coupe because it lacked the cache of the new Lexus brand, yet when I went to sell my 6-speed coupe in 2005, it sold in a day for $1000 more than I was asking (bidding war). The 2G RL was really struggling to sell any volume, but when I traded in my '05 RL in 2015, the dealer sold it the next day for a really good price. The point that I am making is that, in my experience, the Acura flagships DO have an almost cult following amongst loyal Honda/Acura buyers and the only thing holding the masses back from buying them new is the pricing. As a result they sell poorly, but are very coveted as used cars in part due to their performance and features and in part because of their rarity.

 

[QUOTE=hondamore;15943885][QUOTE=TampaRLX-SH;15943636]You mean us geeks that appreciate the Honda engineering and the Acura focus on technology? I think it will take a geek to appreciate this car...present or future. Only if Sport Hybrid AWD becomes iconic to Acura as Quattro has to Audi will I dream this car will have desirability to a much larger community. At least the NSX and MDX are steps in that direction.

 

"QUAAAAAAAATRO!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvdlY4Ke-Wc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wOLEOjsJtY

Can't do those awesome Audi ads with SH-AWD. It's too bad, SH-AWD is better than Quattro. "SHAWTY?"

 

I agree that only a geek will understand the marvelous drivetrain that the Sport Hybrid possesses and appreciate the engineering marvel that it is, BUT I'm not so sure only a geek can appreciate the Sport Hybrid. Any driver who selects M1 in sport mode and extends their right leg will be impressed. Any driver who finds themselves having a great time with the handling of the Sport Hybrid and then notices that they are driving past instead of stopping at gas stations, will be impressed. Any driver who loves to cruise smoothly down the highway listening clearly to every note of their favorite music, will be impressed. Any driver who must make his way around town on snowy, icy roads will be impressed.

The hard part in selling the RLX Sport Hybrid is getting people to try it and experience it. Because of the lack of snob appeal of the Acura brand, sadly, only those already loyal to the Acura or Honda family seem to be willing to TRY driving a Sport Hybrid.

My two cents.

 

^^^ I've loved those adverts - very clever. The irony to me is that aside from exclaiming 'Quattro' you could edit in an RLX SH and EVERY statement Ahab makes applies MORE to the RLX SH! But it seems Acura is just afraid to market SH in a manner to make it iconic to the brand.

 

Neuron - thanks for the links. I too love the Audi adds -- very clever. Unfortunately, Acura doesn't sell enough Sport Hybrids for anyone to even know of the car or ever notice our jewel eyes. At least the ad didn't show a PAWS on the tow truck's hook.....that would have been the ultimate insult.

Are you going to look at any of the Audi's as your lease ends?