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Why would the car refuse to start just because the 12-volt battery is flat?
Is it because he would be driving without proper instrumentation visible to him?
Or am I incorrect in my belief that the 250-volt battery uses the 47 HP front electric motor to start the vehicle?
It could be the faulty sensor. They were trickle charging the battery over-night, so it may not be the battery itself. Seems like an odder issue now that originally thought.
Looking at the documentation, it appears that the SH apparently "does" have a starter right under the 12V battery........
Now i am confused, because there is a starter motor that is part of the front electric motor housed within the 7DCT, and that is suppose to start the engine.....
I will have to go look at the engine and confirm.....
I will dig for the Honda documentation that stated the pancake motor serves as the starting mechanism. Perhaps it is more about semantics that there is not a 'traditional' starter if they consider that starter part of the combined pancake motor & 7DCT? Amusing we are still discovering features of this car's design 2 years after launch.
Dealer called. Replaced the battery sensor and everything is working now, and all codes are cleared. Original battery was fine, so they put that back in. All covered under warranty. Now the real test will be to see what happens over the next few weeks to see if it truly was fixed. If anything changes, I will keep the thread updated.
Thanks to everyone for their help and insight into the problems. Quite the knowledge group here on this forum - I very much appreciate the help and support.
Looking forward to getting back into the car and driving it again!!!
I believe the traditional starter motor is used at initial start up, then subsequent starting of the ICE in conjunction with the hybrid system is done with the motor in the transmission.
The first part of the issue here is basically the inherent flaw of lead acid batteries - that is, when they become discharged below a certain level, they lose the ability to charge fully. Because many of the RLX's sit on the lot or in the showroom for extended periods, normal parasitic loss depletes the battery below that level and so we drive off the lot will essentially half a battery. This is not a Honda/Acura problem exclusively as my father's Toyota Avalon is well documented as having the same issue (likely because it is not a big seller and they tend to sit at the dealer for extended periods as well) as well as other luxury models with all the tech bells and whistles that each draw a tiny bit of power even when the car is turned off. The ideal solution would be for Honda to make a deep cycle battery that is designed to cope with deep discharge and still maintain full capacity, but it is a matter of economics. So, just as owners are free to upgrade their tires from the OEM tires to a model and make that best suits their driving style, owners are free to upgrade their battery to one that is less susceptible to premature loss of capacity.
The second part of the issue can be abnormal parasitic loss or a fault in the electronics causing an unusually high draw when the car is not in use. When I had my battery problem, my car tested at 132 milliamps of parasitic draw when they first checked the problem and after upgrading the software and a thorough inspection of the charging system, the parasitic draw tested at a "normal" 16 milliamps. So, early adopter glitches can contribute to the problem.
All of that said, when they replaced my battery under warranty a few days after I picked up my car, they replaced it with a slightly larger capacity model and I have not had a problem in the year and a half since despite my driving style that features mostly short trips with little chance to recharge the battery and also features plenty of periods of sitting unused in the garage for days. Because of my driving style, I also have a battery jump starter in the trunk at all times - for when the inevitable happens. If/when this battery goes, I'll likely upgrade to an Optima Yellow top deep cycle battery and see if that makes any difference.
Bigred123, I would still insist on a new battery. If the battery has been repeatedly discharged to a level that will no longer turn the starter, it has lost capacity and will not last as long as it should. It is worth asking them to replace it because of the history. It is also probably worth investing in a small protable jump starter just in case.
Bigred123, I would still insist on a new battery. If the battery has been repeatedly discharged to a level that will no longer turn the starter, it has lost capacity and will not last as long as it should. It is worth asking them to replace it because of the history. It is also probably worth investing in a small protable jump starter just in case.
I have a good relationship with my dealer and I will continue to monitor this. As I bought the car ACPO, it wasn't this dealer who sold me the car, and ultimately the work was done under warranty. If the issue solves itself, it will have been a small hassle to deal with. If it comes around again, I will insist on them replacing the battery.
In addition, I will search out a portable jump starter....any recommendations? Thanks again.
My wife went to Canadian Tire and picked me up a Noco Genius+ Jump Starter as a Christmas present last year. They range from $150 to $320. My wife got me the expensive one that can jumpstart a whole parking lot full of cars - no particular reason, it was on sale. I can't comment on the performance because I have not had to use it (isn't that always the way). It also works as a great emergency cell phone charger.
Regarding the battery replacement, there are a bunch of criteria to meet before Honda/Acura will pay for a new battery under warranty. I assume that your battery did not meet the test standard for replacement or the dealer would likely have replaced it at Acura's expense.
Thanks. Seems like the JNC660 is very popular with mechanics, but seemed to be rather large. That one doesn't ship to Canada, but looks like a 600A / 18000mAh booster is what people recommend?
Looking into the cooling documentation of the battery a little bit deeper, i believe they are only cooled by air using the dedicated fan under the rear seat.
The additional liquid cooling is for the MPI module (Motor Power Inverter) that is under the hump in the middle of the car.
So, same issue happened again this evening. Called Roadside assistance for a boost and dropped the car off at the dealership. The guy who boosted my car was pretty sure it was the battery - says it took very little draw for the car to start. We shall see what happens tomorrow, but I insisted they replace the battery this time.
In addition, I will search out a portable jump starter....
I have a portable jump starter that stays on the trailer, in case the race car battery goes flat.
It's too heavy to think about driving around with one, however, and I think that all the good ones are a little too heavy to countenance daily driving with one.
Every dealer is eager to do all the warranty work possible since it means revenue for them at Acura's expense. The problem with replacing batteries under warranty is that they are a part with a finite lifespan that requires "regular" replacement, so Honda/Acura are a bit "pickier" and require documentation before they pay for a replacement. Sadly this documentation includes a charge test that must be WELL below normal before Acura will consider the battery faulty and requiring warranty replacement. With many RLX's sitting on the lots for extended periods, many of the factory installed batteries are becoming deeply discharged which weakens the battery prematurely "aging" it and making it susceptible to early loss of capacity.
"Insisting" on a replacement of the battery because of premature loss of capacity due to repeated presale parasitic drainage (that's a mouthful), usually just involves the dealership phoning Acura National Corporate HQ and explaining that the customer has had repeated battery failure because the car's battery was discharged presale and getting the ok to replace the battery at Acura's expense without the battery's test levels meeting the normal replacement standard.
All this talk of a dead battery has me looking at portable jump starters to keep in the trunk of my almost two year old SH-AWD. Two that seem well reviewed, and weigh only 1.5 pounds yet are capable of starting up to 6L engines, are the DBPOWER 600A and the NOCO Genius GB40. Anyone have particularly good or bad experience with either model or either brand?
Perhaps my choice of the word "insist" was taken the wrong way. The dealer was embarrassed to have me back a 2nd time in a week for the same issue. They were at a loss as to what the problem could be other than a bad/dead battery. I suggested that all signs were pointing to a bad battery, and perhaps they start with that once they had ruled out that nothing was draining the battery while the car was turned off, locked and closed down.
At any rate, the dealer never asked me to pay for a prorated battery or anything...they simply replaced it and hoped they wouldn't see me back for this issue
All this talk of a dead battery has me looking at portable jump starters to keep in the trunk of my almost two year old SH-AWD. Two that seem well reviewed, and weigh only 1.5 pounds yet are capable of starting up to 6L engines, are the DBPOWER 600A and the NOCO Genius GB40. Anyone have particularly good or bad experience with either model or either brand?
Earlier up in the thread pgeorg had recommended the DBPOWER 600A including a link to Amazon. Sadly that isn't available to purchase for Canada.
pgeorg - How often do you have to recharge the DBPOWER battery to keep it useful (which I imagine might be something on the order of 50% charged)? And can it be charged from the car's 12V outlet while driving?
Fsmith: I charge it every 2 months, but it has only discharged very little at that time. I keep it under the small net on top of the batteries in the trunk. I believe you can charge it using the cars 12V outlet, but i have always used the AC outlet.......It does include a car charger adapter, so i would have to say that you can.
I have used it to jump start two different dead batteries, and it worked both times.
Here we go again (and sorry for reviving an old thread). Stopped driving the car frequently due to COVID around mid March. First time car sat for 3 weeks and needed a boost. Second time car sat for 2 weeks. Last time car sat for 5 days and....well - it's still sitting as it won't start again.
I guess it's been close to 4 years now on the replacement new battery so I'll take it back to the dealership again for another test and likely a new battery. Almost don't want to do this until I will be driving more again, but who knows when that will be!
It might be an idea to look into a deep cycle battery that is designed to be deeply discharged without loss of capacity AND it might be an idea to look into a trickle charger to keep you battery topped up when your car is going to sit for a while. The deep cycle battery is expensive, but the trickle charger is a cheap accessory.
Just my two cents.
Had similar issues with my MDX hybrid and RLX hybrid sitting too long because of the lockdown. I was notified with the Acuralink app about issues with my charging system, electrical power steering, ACC/CMBS/LKAS, and low oil pressure. Our lockdown in New Mexico isn't as restrictive as other states and I can drive the vehicles in Sport/Sport+ modes to get the juices flowing. I haven't seen additional warnings since I increased my driving from 1-2 times a month to 2-3 times a week.
It might be an idea to look into a deep cycle battery that is designed to be deeply discharged without loss of capacity AND it might be an idea to look into a trickle charger to keep you battery topped up when your car is going to sit for a while. The deep cycle battery is expensive, but the trickle charger is a cheap accessory.
Just my two cents.
Thanks. Do you have a recommendation for a trickle charger?
Any 2A trickle charger will do the job. The one I use (which is currently on my mother-in-law's car) is a Canadian brand not available in the U.S., so I will defer to other posters for that answer. Remember, the trickle charger will NOT charge a drained battery, it will simply keep a fully charged battery topped up by basically replacing what is being lost through the slow parasitic drain from your car's electronics. For this reason, you are probably wise to replace your battery, then use the trickle charger to keep the new battery topped up if you are not driving your car regularly.
Good luck.
Any 2A trickle charger will do the job. The one I use (which is currently on my mother-in-law's car) is a Canadian brand not available in the U.S., so I will defer to other posters for that answer. Remember, the trickle charger will NOT charge a drained battery, it will simply keep a fully charged battery topped up by basically replacing what is being lost through the slow parasitic drain from your car's electronics. For this reason, you are probably wise to replace your battery, then use the trickle charger to keep the new battery topped up if you are not driving your car regularly.
Good luck.
Hi Hondamore - Your recommendation would be perfect as I'm in Canada as well (GTA based). Usually it's the other way around and hard to find Canadian based recommendations, eh? Thank you!
Just back from the dealer. Battery failed the test - 295 Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) vs 650 is what it should be. So we'll see how long I can go now between rides. Will look into a trickle charger now or the CAA guy (AAA in the US) recommended disconnecting the black wire on the battery if the car is going to sit to prevent it from draining.
Thoughts on either option - pros / cons or what would everyone else do (you can say just drive it every x days that's ok too, but I'm hoping I don't need to go out more than once every week or two)?
I do have a battery charger and NOCO jump starter I haven't used yet for my hybrids. I find it easier for me to just drive each of my vehicles 1-3 times per week depending on how long the trip will be. Instead of hitting my local area for errands in my usual 2-3 mile radius, I sometimes hit the same stores across town (10-30 minute drive one way). I also take different routes to/from my errands just to give the vehicle more time at operating temp. I don't mind taking the side streets because the hybrid gets better mpgs compared to +70 mph on the hwy.
There are a few issues with disconnecting the battery when you car is going to sit for a while:
- You may lose all of your radio presets, seat position memory etc. (I'm not 100% sure of this, but without power for a long period of time, it is certainly possible)
- If you do need to use your car, the process of reconnecting the battery terminal is more involved than disconnecting a trickle charger.
It might be worth a question to your service advisor to get their opinion regarding the safety and efficacy of trickle chargers, but I have had success using them with no apparent problems. Alternatively, as mrgold35 suggests, if you have the time to simply drive your car for 15 to 20 minutes every 3 or 4 days, that works as well.
Hi Hondamore - Your recommendation would be perfect as I'm in Canada as well (GTA based). Usually it's the other way around and hard to find Canadian based recommendations, eh? Thank you!
Hey bigred123, I went to Canadian Tire and bought a Motomaster Eliminator 2 Amp trickle charger for about $40. That was a few years ago, so I checked and they are about $10 more now. They have several models (including some that are 1.5 Amp) there or you could try a local PartSource or other automotive place. The service guys at any of those places are more qualified than I am at making a recommendation on any particular model etc.
Hopefully, they come up with a vaccine soon and all this crap going on with the pandemic will die down and we can just start driving our cars in our usual driving patterns and babysitting our batteries will no longer be an issue.
Hey bigred123, I went to Canadian Tire and bought a Motomaster Eliminator 2 Amp trickle charger for about $40. That was a few years ago, so I checked and they are about $10 more now. They have several models (including some that are 1.5 Amp) there or you could try a local PartSource or other automotive place. The service guys at any of those places are more qualified than I am at making a recommendation on any particular model etc.
Thanks for this. Your advice is timely as I just picked up a Camaro ZL1 as a summer toy and will need something like this for winter storage. I checked Canadian Tire’s site and it shows the Eliminator Intelligent 2A battery charger is discontinued.
They do have a Motomaster Classic Series 8/4/2 Amp battery charger 25% off for $55.99 so maybe that’s the one to get.
My SH has been sitting in the garage hardly being used since March but I’ve been taking it for short drives every so often to keep the battery charged. Now it gets started more, being relegated to the driveway, to make way for the ZL1 in the garage when backing out, so it’s being started more often now. With the new sheriff in town, I can’t help but think the RLX feels like Woody when Buzz appeared. The Sport Hybrid has been shelved lolol To be honest, it’s kind of sad seeing the RLX sitting getting dirty out in the driveway when it’s been garaged it’s whole life....
My former RL ate 4 batteries in the 10 years I owned it. These cars use a lot of accessory juice and frankly the OEM battery needs to be beefed up. My 1st 3 batteries all went in 2-3 years and were replaced under warranty. By the time the last battery was installed, Acura changed their battery warranty from complete replacement to a pro rated credit towards a new Acura battery. Obviously they know a lot of batteries failed during battery warranty period.
The telescoping steering wheel failure is just one of the symptoms long timers noted occurred before the battery failure. My RL did it consistently and usually 2 weeks after I noticed the symptom, I had the exact experience you had - click, click, dead. I even predicted the last battery failure on the RL forum. So if you did not notice the symptoms, or were not aware to look for them, you would have an unannounced battery failure as you experienced.
After my last RL battery replacement, I purchased a portable jumper kit and kept stowed in the trunk. I think that should be a standard feature on these cars.
Originally Posted by pgeorg
I agree with Tampa, i also keep a portable battery booster in the back of the RLX and the MDX. $75 is a small price to pay for some piece of mind (that goes for the spare tire kit, too).
Using a connected app the SH battery voltage is holding steady at 14.4V so far.....of course its only about a year old......
totally agree with Tampa, plus here in FL the battery seems to go faster than anywhere else. Got me a battery tender for the extended time that I'm not driving the car like now.
Has anyone had better success with the Honda/Acura AGM batteries? I've never got over 3 years with the OEM batteries in my 06 TSX, 08 RDX, or 11 MDX living in the southwest. Have over +2 years with my 18 RLX OEM battery and rather to a preemptive strike instead of waiting for the battery to fail since the RLX is the wife's vehicle.
Just go with an optima yellow or red or other "specialized" deep cycle battery. I had battery problems when I first got the SH and replaced with a bosch AGM that made it a few years then it started fritzing out this past winter. At that point I just bit the bullet and put in a yellow top - everything has been smooth as butter since including the majority of last winter.
08-30-2016, 08:35 AM
