hadokenuh

Exactly! I could not afford a ITR back then (insurance cost alone would have killed me) but I can now. A ILX with 250HP Turbo'ed 4 and SH-AWD for 32K, I'll buy it in a heart beat. No Nav or driving aids packages needed. I can do that myself

George Knighton

So ironic, considering how much has blown up in their faces recently.

Nothing's hit Honda as bad as the huge Toyota and General Motors recalls, but it's enough that even old hands like us can't help wandering off and looking at other things.

It's just little silly stuff, but it's enough.

Every time I sit in the back seat of the Japanese team's RLX, I'm reminded how much better I felt in the back of the American team's 4G TL.

:-/

KeithL

What Acura is not bland? I see them all the time. I am not an SUV person so can't tell you if it is a good SUV or not. We'll see how well sales keep going.

KeithL

And who doesn't data mine today? Any web site you go to is collecting data, your usage and what you click on and using that to sell the info. The only way to avoid data mining is to fully unplug. You can minimize it, but you will never prevent it.

TampaRLX-SH

^^^

Indeed. This very website is tracking you. They collect your website browsing and sell it to advertisers to render adverts pertinent to your web activity.

Very regularly Norton blocks my access to AZ because of phishing activities. Malwarebytes also flags AZ for compromised security.

Just because you log in to reduce the annoying ads, does not mean you are not being tracked.

Nexx

agreed the mdx is bar none the best 7 passenger suv for the money, nothing comes close. helluva fun suv to drive. rdx is great but it does need a few more safety features and rear a/c. the suv lineup I strong. the sedans are much lacking though.

Toby123

Would this not bring them even closer with Honda models though? I would think AWD, and to some extent SH-AWD is a huge selling point for those in Northern climates.

I think SH AWD is great, but its weight and bulkiness were killer. Hopefully they were solved in the TLX.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

The best technology/feature to distance the premium Acura models from the econo Honda models is RWD/FWD chassis, with Acura vehicles riding on RWD chassis and Honda vehicles on FWD chassis.

However, the Acura brand has no such luck, since Honda doesn't have any RWD sedan platform available for such applications.

Therefore, SH-AWD (and the upcoming hybrid AWD) is the only major feature that makes Acura vehicles stand out, and should have come standard in ALL Acura vehicles.

Otherwise, FWD Acura's (especially sedans) are simply dressed-up Honda's, and carry a premium price tag that is hard to justify, as evident by the continuously withering Acura sedan sales numbers.

Colin

Well, it' not as if Hondas are bad cars. Thus a dressed up Honda becomes a matter of managing the additional cost. I'm not advocating dropping SH without a commensurate lowering of prices. I'd bet that the new TLX (whose pricing starts at $30,995 +dest) will sell at least 90% of it's volume in FWD. Could this be 50-60K/year for 2 or 3 years? Showing that mechanical SH-AWD is not necessary for volume.

And this is with SH-AWD, thus proving my point that it has not done it's job to improve sales or the brand image.

Edward'TLS

Don't get me wrong.

Honda's are damn good cars, and this is exactly why my whole family is a loyal Honda/Acura fan ever since the '80 starting with the 2G Accord.

Everyone accepts that Honda cars can command a Honda-like price tag.

But most buyers sneer at dressed-up FWD Honda's with a Acura-like premium price tag, namely the $28K 4-cylinder FWD ILX and the $49K FWD RLX.

This is exactly why Acura cars must carry technologies (e.g., SH-AWD option), that will differentiate them from the econo Honda products, and that will make premium sedan buyers no longer view them as "dressed-up Honda's" that don't deserve premium price tags.

However, a lower price tag will fix everything, even the ILX and RLX.

Edward'TLS

The slow-selling ILX has NO "SH-AWD" option, and the poor-selling FWD RLX still have NO "AWD" option of any kind that people can buy, for already more than a year since debut.

So what job to improve sales and what brand image ?

db22

Acura is in the US, most other countries call these models a Honda. Honda RLX, NSX etc. even the Accord in EU is an Acura in the US.

CFoote

The Hybrid system still worries me. Granted Honda did well with the SH-AWD system back in 2005 - my RL has been troublefree from a powertrain perspective (fingers crossed!). Adding more complexity doesn't necessarily mean it's 'better' -- and the real question is, does it HAVE to be better?

BMW, Benz and Lexus all have mechanical AWD systems that work just fine -- as does Acura. It works fine in the MDX -- granted I'm sure we'll see a Hybrid MDX at MMC, but who knows.

There are a lot of us in the northern climates that *need* AWD -- I have to get in to work on cruddy days, our states do not close down. Getting up hills and having some extra traction really is beneficial, not to mention the traction on dry pavement I was really tempted on a FWD RLX, but then said "Ehhhhhh my RL runs so well, and it has AWD, just sit it out..." and that it what I'm doing.

OK, done rambling Ultimately, I don't need headlights that cost $2000, I don't need a hybrid system that I don't know what long-term longevity is. I understand technology must progress, but sometimes less is more, especially for car buyers. Remember Acuras target market -- I don't believe they are targeting folks making 200k a year, they are a luxury-value oriented brand. That is why I bought one (CPO) in the first place.

Chris

neuronbob

^^^^^
Then you are in the market for the reasonably priced TLX SH-AWD Advance, which is functionally the equivalent of the 2G RL. I'm thinking about leasing that while we await the hybrid RLX, which is appearing in........who knows? I'm still stunned that Acura "went big" on pricing (and by that I mean that pricing on some trims lower than the TL they replaced) on pricing. Acura wants to seriously sell sedans this year. And with that approach, they will succeed.

Like you, I was tempted to settle for a PAWS RLX. However, I really could use AWD where I live, and I am interested in the hybrid's tech.

CFoote

If the TLX was bigger, I'd go for it. I'm 6'2", when I put the seat back I'll be curious what little legroom is left in the TLX if any

What is unfortunate is that Acura took the TSX and TL and combined them together....which was a stupid move IMHO. The older TL was just the right size.

Chris

JM2010 SH-AWD

I think you'll be surprised when (if) you look at it. The TLX uses the new Accord platform. We have a '13 Accord, and it has plenty of interior room. I'm 6'2" too, and with the seat all the way back have plenty of room. We have driven other couples in the car, and they always comment on how roomy the rear seat is.

Colin

I'd second that, they have gone to great pains to point out that the new TL has the same interior space as the outgoing 4G TL despite being smaller on the outside.

Colin

Yes, and the factory to dealer cash has addressed most of this, allowing these two to find some equilibrium. Once the ILX gets it's powetrain upgrades, I think it'll be a lot better off, even with the current pricing scheme. That said, 40K a year ain't gonna happen as it's entering the twilight of its product cycle (in early 2015 when '16 MMC comes).

neuronbob

+1. This is the same modis operandi as with the 9G Accord. It is smaller outside than the 8G Accord, but as large inside. The rear seat of the Accord is actually comfortable for me, and I'm 5'10" ie reasonably tall. I am willing to bet the TLX is nicely sized interiorly.

Of course, in comparison, the RLX is even more commodious as we all know.

Edward'TLS

The factory-to-dealer cash is a sure way to guarantee movements of slow selling vehicles out of dealerships. But pulling back the RLX production in order to find equilibrium doesn't sound like a smart move, because as the Acura flagship sedan, the RLX will have even less exposure (than the current minimal) on the streets.

Anyway, it looks like Acura has a winning pricing scheme for the upcoming TLX sedan, and that should put some faith back to the Acura premium sedan shoppers.

db22

But the "winning price scheme" of the TLX gives you an Acura name but in the low price range it is competing with a loaded Accord and the Accord has a proven track record. If the new TLX rolls out with the same issues as an MDX or with the bland character of an RLX then we will have another Acura mess to discuss.

TSX69

For New NSX, Acura's Designing Woman

Michelle Christensen wanted to get into the automotive design program at Pasadena's Art Center College of Design. So admissions officers asked her for a portfolio of car sketches.

She had none.

Christensen had designed prom dresses in high school. She didn't even know car design was a career until her 2nd year of community college in Cupertino, Calif.

------------
FOR THE RECORD:
Acura designer: An article in the Jan. 11 Business section about automobile designer Michelle Christensen misspelled the last name of architect Zaha Hadid as Haddad. —
------------

Apparently she's a quick study. Now 34, Christensen has designed the new Acura NSX, a Ferrari-fighting supercar making its world debut Monday at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

"The design had to enhance the function of the car," says Michelle Christensen, who designed Acura's 2nd-generation NSX. "It forced me to grow as a designer." Above, a mock-up of the revamped supercar. (Bob Chamberlin / Los Angeles Times)

"It looks fast even when it is parked," said Acura General Manager Mike Accavitti. "It is the ultimate expression of the Acura brand."

Cars weren't completely foreign to Christensen when she started a night school class in car design in 2002. As a teen, she hung out with her father in the garage of their San Jose home, watching him tinker with hot rods and muscle cars and eventually learning how to do the work herself.

"I developed a passion for mechanical things," said Christensen, who now lives in downtown Los Angeles. "I like the noise of an engine and the way cars smell."

This 2nd-generation NSX — Acura sold its predecessor from 1990 to 2005 — will produce an entirely different noise from the roar of a 1967 Chevrolet Chevelle, which has been Christensen's dream car for decades.
lRelated Top autos of 2014 stood out for their superb execution

The new NSX will be an all-wheel-drive hybrid. A twin-turbocharged, mid-mounted V-6 engine sits behind the 2-seat cockpit and powers the rear wheels. 2 electric motors, one mounted near each of the front wheels, add additional power and control. A 3rd electric motor is integrated with the engine to supply extra power.

The car is expected to produce 500 horsepower, though Acura hasn't given official figures. The price won't be announced until it goes on sale next year, but is likely to fall in the $120,000 to $180,000 range. It will serve as the "halo" vehicle for the upscale Honda division, Accavitti said, meant to imbue the entire brand with a performance image.

Christensen understands that great design takes more than a great image, said Tisha Johnson, a car designer at Volvo Car Group in Sweden who once taught at Art Center. Designers have to craft a compelling story to sell the design language to those with the power to greenlight ambitious projects, she said.

Although she may have started with no portfolio, Christensen's early car drawings earned her an internship at Volvo's Camarillo studio, Johnson said.

John Krsteski, an Art Center instructor and manager of Hyundai Design North America in Irvine, also saw Christensen's skills develop. He understands why Acura hired her in 2005, then gave Christensen the task of styling its sexiest, most sophisticated car 3 years ago.

He recalled a performance car concept for Chrysler that Christensen created as an Art Center project.

"She nailed it," Krsteski said. "Michelle showed a solid design sense of proportion and profile in the overall stance of the car."

Krsteski would have liked to hire Christensen for Hyundai, but by then she already had a good relationship with Honda.

Honda recruited Christensen during her last year at Art Center. She also had interest from Chrysler, but that would have required a move to Detroit, not ideal for a California native.

There was another powerful reason to stay in California. Within days of entering the Art Center's car design program, Christensen met fellow student Jason Wilbur, now her husband. They started work at Honda on the same day. He heads Honda's Advanced Design Studio, not far from the couple's downtown apartment.

She is the first female exterior designer at Acura but doesn't believe that gender makes much difference in car design. "Even the guys here will talk about shoes," she said.

Christensen also was given the Women on Top Award by Marie Claire Magazine as an up-and-coming female professional.

Christensen says her life pretty much follows a set pattern. Workout at the CrossFit gym, work and sleep. On the weekends, she participates in CrossFit competitions, plays golf and hikes.

Before the NSX, Christensen worked on Acura's ZDX, a low-slung crossover the automaker scuttled last year. She also contributed to a refresh of the Acura RLX sedan.

The NSX was the 1st project she headed, and it proved an entirely different challenge.

Christensen had to make a pretty car, but also ensure that the exterior enhanced the NSX's performance. Every curve had to serve a purpose, such as producing aerodynamic down force to push the car toward the pavement to improve traction and cornering. The vehicle needed large but graceful vents to feed the twin-turbo engine and cool the brakes.

"The design had to enhance the function of the car," Christensen. "It forced me to grow as a designer."

The result had what Christensen terms "emotional surfaces" that demand attention and imply movement. At the same time, she wanted an aggressive stance.

"That comes from my background as an American woman who grew up with hot rods," Christensen said.

There were practical considerations, too, such as leaving enough space in the trunk to fit 2 carry-on bags or 1 set of golf clubs.

"As a designer, I used to fight that," she said. "Now that I play golf, I understand."

Christensen also took some cues from the previous NSX, including a black roof and tail lights that span the entire width of the rear deck.

Finding other automotive inspiration elsewhere was easy, said Christensen, who commutes to Acura's design center in Torrance in a Honda Pilot.

"Since we are in L.A., we have supercars crawling everywhere," she said, including Ferraris, Bentleys and even an occasional Lamborghini in her building's parking garage.

Elsewhere, Christensen draws inspiration from a touch of fashion design — the shoe business — and architecture.

She's an admirer of Zaha Haddad, the Iraqi-British architect whose buildings employ honeycomb structures, curves and flowing lines to exude movement. Haddad's design for the King Abdullah Financial District Metro Station in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, resembles a cruise ship gliding over the sea.

Cars, it turns out, are not so unlike buildings.

"You have a skeleton," Christensen said, "that you have to wrap up with a beautiful form."

CFoote

Nice - well that explains the refresh of the RLX. Hopefully sooner rather than later....

George Knighton

Christensen, eh.

That could be good news...or that could be bad news....

But at least it's in the hands of the North American team.

Her ZDX was sort of the wrong car at the wrong time, but as an art form, as something truly interesting, the design had "it."

neuronbob

So what I took from that article was..

Night school....wah wah wah wah wah wawawah...

Designed NSX.....

Refresh of the RLX?

Well, that's a nice confirmation of things to come, if the writer really meant "refresh". Can't wait to see the refresh if true! Hopefully it'll be as good as the NSX.

neuronbob

NSX reveal here, watching now:

2015 NAIAS Production Debut - AcuraZine Community

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Ok... I'm sold. I wish I were Jerry and first in line.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I missed the first 28 minutes. What details were reported?

neuronbob

All deets in that thread. I kinda liveblogged the important ones.

Sounds freaking HOT, they spent about 30 seconds just revving it.
"North of 550hp"
"Mid-$150k's range.
USA production, worldwide sales.
Online ordering this summer.
Production starting in the fall.
Delivery "later this year".
At least two trims.

Can't wait for a used one to fall into a price range that won't cause me to delay my son's college education.

Go to that thread....

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Wow! $150k is 911 territory. That would definitely get me to sleep in the garage as I don't think my wife would be too happy with that decision. She is cool but to a limit. Now if I could figure out a way to get her to believe that it would be a daily driver....

Malibu Flyer

Thanks Bob!!

I think all of us who have complained about Acura's marketing and poor roll-out of the RLX Sports Hybrid can have some hope.

While the NSX announcement is the hallo car we all expected [even though there are a number specifics that haven't been released], I find a few things more interesting to the majority of us who won't want to spend NSX money on a car. First, they highlighted the US team responsible for the car. That includes the exterior designer who was featured in the L A Times article which referred to her initial involvement in the RLX. I'm sure now that the NSX is out the door she is already working on the MMC for the RLX. That is very good news. I also took a lot of solace from the mention of the last minute total redesign of the NSX's engine. This also gives me hope for some significant changes in the RLX MMC. Lastly, this shows me Acura still has the engineering chops that attracted most of us to Acura in the first place. Many of us were disappointed in the mistakes and problems with the Acura PAWS and the infotainment system which is also in the Sport Hybrid. This announcement gives me hope for the future. The first place that the new innovations embodied in the NSX are likely to show up is the RLX.

We all just need patience...... This isn't happening overnight but my take is that some of the new zeitgeist of the NSX is on its way to a showroom near you, probably for the 2017 year RLX models.

BTW -- the NSX timeshare seems more expensive than I originally thought but perhaps with a few new Sport Hybrid around we could still piece it together

neuronbob

^^^^
I noticed what they said about mid-development changes in the engine.

I agree that watching this, there is some hope. In fact, I think I like this Acura USA-based development team. First, success with the TLX, now a successful reveal of the production NSX. I wish they'd been more involved in the RLX. I'm willing to give them a chance to assist with the infotainment issues as a start, then....maybe...more evocative sheet metal for the RLX down the line? Dare I hope?

hondamore

I may be completely dreaming, but snippets of information here and there over that last few days seem to add at least the possibility that a twin-turbo version of the RLX Sport Hybrid may some day become a reality. Acura's push towards being a PERFORMANCE brand, the Acura rep's slip about the RLX and NSX having the same HP numbers, the American arm of Acura taking over the design and direction of the brand, rumors that RLX production will move to the same facility as the NSX... lead me to hope that a 550 HP RLX Sport Hybrid may be my next ride. (please don't wake me up if I'm dreaming)

neuronbob

^^^^
If Acura indeed made a twin-turbo V6 RLX Sport Hybrid, I would be all over that. I would lose money on a lease trade to get one.

.....wait....maybe THAT's what's in the MMC!

OK, now we are both dreaming.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I hate to pour cold water on things, but I think that may be a REM sleep dream for sure. Maybe the rep I spoke to was being semi-truthful in the power train comment. Maybe there will be two NSX models? One with roughly the same power train as the RLX Sport Hybrid, but set up in reverse, and a second high test version as presented today? Just as there is the Corvette C7 Stingray and now the C7-Z06, maybe we are in store for a two model option? Maybe the lower end version would sell in the $100k range and the big daddy at $150k+. Again I am just trying to draw some connection to other halo cars for other manufacturers into the mix here. Don't forget the future C7-ZR1 is supposed to be a mid-engine design like the NSX too.

For shits and giggles I asked my wife if she would have any problem with my getting on the list to buy the new NSX. She laughed. I expected nothing else, and she did not even ask what the price would be.

hondamore

^^Your feeling is that the likelihood of an RLX Sport Hybrid twin turbo is one in a million.....So you're saying there's a chance.

George Knighton

Maybe. :-) There's still talk about whether there's room for a Baby NSX or an S2000 replacement kind of thing.

George Knighton

The V6 in the NSX is not a J Motor. It's based on the Indy motor, and very expensive, unfortunately.

:-(

wstr75

Honda 3.5 Liter Indy Motor Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Indy_V8
Honda Indy Motor 2.2 Liter Version:

http://hpd.honda.com/indycar/specifi...rbo-V-6-Engine

wstr75

Let's see if this link works better regarding the 2.2 L V-6 Honda engine:
Verizon IndyCar Racing Parts - Honda Performance Development

Click on the product specifications tab in the page to see the engine and its specs.