Oil Change - More than 5qt.
#41
Racer
Wanted to follow up on this, about 1000 miles later after I set my oil level perfectly to a full mark (5.5qt), I noticed the oil level went up by less than 1/4”. I pumped out excess oil to bring it back to full, maybe got 1/4qt.
Id recommend keeping an eye on your oil level if you do a lot of short trips.
Id recommend keeping an eye on your oil level if you do a lot of short trips.
We use our old car for most short little errands and the RDX for longer trips. The factory fill was right at the full mark and hadn't changed when I did our first oil and filter change at 4000 miles. It took 5.5 quarts to bring the level back to the full mark. We're at 6200 miles now and the level hasn't changed a bit, up or down. For what it's worth, I used the 5-30 Valvoline Modern Engine oil but I don't imagine that would have anything to do with the level not changing.
#42
Suzuka Master
You might be right about the short trips.
We use our old car for most short little errands and the RDX for longer trips. The factory fill was right at the full mark and hadn't changed when I did our first oil and filter change at 4000 miles. It took 5.5 quarts to bring the level back to the full mark. We're at 6200 miles now and the level hasn't changed a bit, up or down. For what it's worth, I used the 5-30 Valvoline Modern Engine oil but I don't imagine that would have anything to do with the level not changing.
We use our old car for most short little errands and the RDX for longer trips. The factory fill was right at the full mark and hadn't changed when I did our first oil and filter change at 4000 miles. It took 5.5 quarts to bring the level back to the full mark. We're at 6200 miles now and the level hasn't changed a bit, up or down. For what it's worth, I used the 5-30 Valvoline Modern Engine oil but I don't imagine that would have anything to do with the level not changing.
#43
User Awaiting Email Confirmation
#44
Suzuka Master
#45
User Awaiting Email Confirmation
With fuel dilution, I'd be more concerned with breakdown of lubricity properties of the oil over viscosity. Viscosity is only one factor. Just try "taking the long way 'round" when taking the RDX out ... and give it the beans every so often when reaching operating temps. Hopefully it's not fuel dilution ... no matter what oil you use, it's going to cause serious issues down the road if it persists.
The following users liked this post:
Ih8honda (05-15-2021)
#46
Suzuka Master
With fuel dilution, I'd be more concerned with breakdown of lubricity properties of the oil over viscosity. Viscosity is only one factor. Just try "taking the long way 'round" when taking the RDX out ... and give it the beans every so often when reaching operating temps. Hopefully it's not fuel dilution ... no matter what oil you use, it's going to cause serious issues down the road if it persists.
my understanding that once fuel is in oil, only some of it can evaporate if you run engine at normal temperature for long time? It could be water (condensation) also. With water I think it typically evaporates...
#47
User Awaiting Email Confirmation
If it is fuel dilution, I'm not really sure how you would remedy it. I would shorten OCI for sure. When taking the car out in the future, I'd try to get it to operating temps as much as possible. Also, deactivate the stop/start feature as much as possible, that's been pointed at as a culprit for fuel dilution (especially when the engine is still relatively cold).
#48
Suzuka Master
I think its related to the change in m driving patters,
more short trips. Prior Oil stayed constant when I was driving it longer. You are right, if you cant manage oil dilution — shorter OCI is needed...
more short trips. Prior Oil stayed constant when I was driving it longer. You are right, if you cant manage oil dilution — shorter OCI is needed...
#49
Suzuka Master
Oil level seems to stay normal, but I did a smell test, and RDX oil smell has hints of gas, not very strong, but still.... I compared the smell to my other car Lexus ES350 that is not DI engine, and it has zero smell with 4K miles on the oil.
Since I change oil myself and it practically cost me nothing, I am going to change oil at 50%
Since I change oil myself and it practically cost me nothing, I am going to change oil at 50%
#51
Instructor
#52
Suzuka Master
about API SP... I got PUP 0w-20 from amazon with production date Sep29, 2020 (fresh!) but it had old label SN Plus/GF-5.
I contacted pennzoil, and they told me that PUP 0w-20 oils met SP/GF-6 on May 1st, 2020 and these are just old packaging and the oil inside indeed API SP.
Thought I share 😎
btw, pennzoil ultra 0w-20 is hard to find at good price. It has better cleaning than regular pennzoil.
Mobil1 EP is nice too, but probably not needed because I have no plans to go 15-20k miles.
Last edited by russianDude; 11-26-2020 at 09:17 AM.
#53
Instructor
about API SP... I got PUP 0w-20 from amazon with production date Sep29, 2020 (fresh!) but it had old label SN Plus/GF-5.
I contacted pennzoil, and they told me that PUP 0w-20 oils met SP/GF-6 on May 1st, 2020 and these are just old packaging and the oil inside indeed API SP.
Thought I share 😎
btw, pennzoil ultra 0w-20 is hard to find at good price. It has better cleaning than regular pennzoil.
Mobil1 EP is nice too, but probably not needed because I have no plans to go 15-20k miles.
I contacted pennzoil, and they told me that PUP 0w-20 oils met SP/GF-6 on May 1st, 2020 and these are just old packaging and the oil inside indeed API SP.
Thought I share 😎
btw, pennzoil ultra 0w-20 is hard to find at good price. It has better cleaning than regular pennzoil.
Mobil1 EP is nice too, but probably not needed because I have no plans to go 15-20k miles.
I get better MPGs with PUP compare to the M1 AFE full synthetic.
#54
Intermediate
One day a mechanic friend of mine pointed out that anything short of tearing the engine down will leave a substantial amount behind. In the case of the RDX, it looks like that quantity is 1.2 quarts, or a good 20% of total capacity.
If you're warming up the engine to suspend and homogenize the contaminants, there's no telling where the theoretical "worst" of the contamination will be when you start draining--probably has something to do with relative specific gravity, turbulence from engine last gasp, and pure merry-go-round timing. It's very possible that the worst of the contaminants are in some nook or cranny somewhere that a single gravity drain won't be able to remove.
Bottom line, the last few drops undoubtedly remove more contaminants, but the difference is probably not very significant compared to the 20% of oil that is still somewhere in the engine. These days, if I am doing a gravity drain, I wait until a slow drip, maybe something like 1 every 2 seconds or so. Using quality oil and keeping up with the change frequency should keep those leftover contaminants at a controlled level, and I have faith the engineers accounted for that in the OCI.
#56
Intermediate
Oil having a strong gasoline odor would definitely pique interest. Probably worth $25-$30 to get a used oil analysis done to determine the level of contamination from fuel, antifreeze, TBN, wear metals, etc.
#57
Suzuka Master
RDX being DI engine will have some fuel dilution if you make short trips
#58
Intermediate
Good old BITOG, plenty of sharp minds there for sure. Over the years I have seen some dissent around Blackstone Labs results, though if they have consensus doubt around the fuel contamination level, that would be a clear yellow flag. It's interesting because ironically, BITOG might be the closest thing to a governing body to keep the oil analysis outfits in check. The thing is, they are not organized for that, and as with any public forum, the loudest voice is not always the most credible one.
Still though, it is an instrumented test with a valid indicator (something similar to PPM or parts per million) that could at least provide some quantitative value--most likely better than going by sight, touch, or smell.
At the end of the day, if the oil's vitals are holding up and any contamination is not causing any tangible problems, it's probably okay to continue to follow the owner's manual and enjoy the ride. It will always be easy to find problems when one goes looking for them.
Still though, it is an instrumented test with a valid indicator (something similar to PPM or parts per million) that could at least provide some quantitative value--most likely better than going by sight, touch, or smell.
At the end of the day, if the oil's vitals are holding up and any contamination is not causing any tangible problems, it's probably okay to continue to follow the owner's manual and enjoy the ride. It will always be easy to find problems when one goes looking for them.
#59
I just did my first oil change at 4,800 miles via the pump extraction method. I also didn’t jack up the car but rather backed into my garage and then drove up slightly on the ramps. The garage floor is sloped about 5 degrees and . This kept the vehicle level and allowed enough space for me to crawl under, remove the metal plate and get to the filter. About 3000 out of the 4800 miles were what I would consider “short trips”. Keeping the fuel dilution issue in mind since purchase, I made sure we drive the car more aggressively on longer trips to allow for burn off of any fuel that might be in oil. With this said, my extractor still got about 5.3qt out. All in all a pretty easy oil change but I did have to go to Autozone when I got to changing the filter... the factory filter wouldn’t budge by hand... so for the first time in 10 years of changing Honda oil, I had to get an oil wrench. Next oil change should be 20 minutes.
5 dollar wrench will save my wrist next time
5 dollar wrench will save my wrist next time
The following 3 users liked this post by vkamnyev:
#61
Intermediate
I just did my first oil change at 4,800 miles via the pump extraction method. I also didn’t jack up the car but rather backed into my garage and then drove up slightly on the ramps. The garage floor is sloped about 5 degrees and . This kept the vehicle level and allowed enough space for me to crawl under, remove the metal plate and get to the filter. About 3000 out of the 4800 miles were what I would consider “short trips”. Keeping the fuel dilution issue in mind since purchase, I made sure we drive the car more aggressively on longer trips to allow for burn off of any fuel that might be in oil. With this said, my extractor still got about 5.3qt out. All in all a pretty easy oil change but I did have to go to Autozone when I got to changing the filter... the factory filter wouldn’t budge by hand... so for the first time in 10 years of changing Honda oil, I had to get an oil wrench. Next oil change should be 20 minutes.
<snip>
5 dollar wrench will save my wrist next time
<snip>
5 dollar wrench will save my wrist next time
#62
I didn’t try to remove the drain plug. I came to trust the extractor method by doing oil changes on my Audi A4 and it consistently provides good results in my opinion. I put exactly 5qt back, as suggested by the manual, and the reading is at full mark (after taking it on a drive and letting it sit). When there isn’t a foot of snow on the ground, I find that using the extractor turns this into a pleasant activity rather than a chore; plus there is less mess
#63
Intermediate
I didn’t try to remove the drain plug. I came to trust the extractor method by doing oil changes on my Audi A4 and it consistently provides good results in my opinion. I put exactly 5qt back, as suggested by the manual, and the reading is at full mark (after taking it on a drive and letting it sit). When there isn’t a foot of snow on the ground, I find that using the extractor turns this into a pleasant activity rather than a chore; plus there is less mess
On the other hand, I've had various Japanese and Korean cars where the extractor couldn't remove more than about 2 quarts, sometimes even less. It seems to be based on the location of the dipstick tube and shape of the oil pan. This is why, on the first oil service, I usually try the extractor and then remove the plug on the first try to see what I'm leaving behind.
Given how much you were able to get out of there, there probably wasn't much left at all. Almost certainly not enough to worry about, since there is a good bit of oil left in the engine even after a full drain based on the difference between total capacity and change volume. I was just curious.
#64
Suzuka Master
I think for some german cars extractor is actually a preferred way done in dealership, maybe thats why its optimized for it.
I do the old school way, its really simple. With experience you will have less mess each time. I leave it drain for 30-40min
I do the old school way, its really simple. With experience you will have less mess each time. I leave it drain for 30-40min
#65
User Awaiting Email Confirmation
Not the preferred way, but actually designed way to do the oil change on German vehicles. From what I've heard, even from dealer techs, is that the extractor doesn't do as well of a job as the old fashioned oil drain plug, but it makes servicing much easier, especially since most have their filters on top now (for the very same reason). I don't know, just what I've been told. I've never owned a German vehicle, nor have I ever used one of those extractors. That being said, longevity hasnot been the mission statement of any German automaker in the last two decades.
#66
I was looking at how the oil pan is designed and if the dip stick goes directly to the shallow area, I would say that the difference would be insignificant. In my A4, in order to get to the PLASTIC drain plug, I have to take off the plastic undercarriage that is held by 18 fasteners of 5 different types ( I think... but if not, it’s pretty freaking close). With that said and with the filter being on top, the pump just makes so much sense there.
just for the kicks, I will do the traditional method on the RDX the next time and then will put the pump tube in and see if there was anything left.
just for the kicks, I will do the traditional method on the RDX the next time and then will put the pump tube in and see if there was anything left.
The following users liked this post:
JB in AZ (02-23-2021)
#68
#69
Instructor
Another data point on the oil level and capacity.
2021 with 6000 miles 2/3 of the miles were highway miles. First oil change done early and habit and slight fuel smell.
Drained the oil and filter.......measure the oil quantity found 5.75 qts.
Prior to the changed had been watching the oil level on the dip stick on the RDX........found no real issue. As a prior owner 2017 CRV is was well aware of the oil dilution. My CRV had a pretty consistent dilution issue in cold weather. At the worst mine would be over quart high on the stick. Honda did multiple free oil changes as many of us waited for the fix. Honda did the product update to the CRV which improved the situation but was not a 100% cure. Honda extended the engine warranty in a settlement with all owners. Mine never had had any issues other than the level increase. No check engine or other symptoms.
The CRV on cold winter days ( 0* to -15*F) you could watch the engine temperature drop at stop lights. 1.5T just could have been air cooled....it just did not develop enough heat to hold temperature at idle. Under way the temperature would return to normal levels. My thought this played a part on the CRV problem.
Unfortunately just before the RDX change I did not check the stick level. But again drained quantity was 5.75 qts
Add 5 qts of Mobil 1 0w-20 new filter and start the engine ran a couple of minutes found it .75 qts low on the stick. ( on level ground)
Went for 10 mile test drive and returned check the oil on the stick after 5 minute of sitting .......found just slightly low of the middle point on the stick. ( A-B marks on the stick)
Checked the oil several more times as it sat for 15-45 minutes. Maybe moved up the stick slightly but still just half way point.
Added a 1/2 qt let it sit and rechecked.......just slightly below the top top mark.
One trick on the dip stick.........rub the orange plastic section witha scotch brite pad to scuff the plastic. It roughens the plastic just enough to better see the oil level on the stick by breaking the surface tension. Just scuff and wipe clean.
So first seeing the extra oil in the drain pan, was thinking CRV a issue........then reading this thread........and refilling 5.5qts..........I have no current concerns that I have any oil real oil dilution issues.
I have no idea why the manual says 5.0 qts with filter.
My ‘19 Ridgeline has no such inconsistencies. 5.7 qts and it hits the top mark every time.
Beginning to think 5.7 qts might be a better spec for the RDX.
The CRV 1.5T had 3.7 qts which is the same as many Honda motorcycles......seems like it could have used more oil ?
5 qts added After test drive wait 5 minutes:
oil level after 5.5 qts added
B
2021 with 6000 miles 2/3 of the miles were highway miles. First oil change done early and habit and slight fuel smell.
Drained the oil and filter.......measure the oil quantity found 5.75 qts.
Prior to the changed had been watching the oil level on the dip stick on the RDX........found no real issue. As a prior owner 2017 CRV is was well aware of the oil dilution. My CRV had a pretty consistent dilution issue in cold weather. At the worst mine would be over quart high on the stick. Honda did multiple free oil changes as many of us waited for the fix. Honda did the product update to the CRV which improved the situation but was not a 100% cure. Honda extended the engine warranty in a settlement with all owners. Mine never had had any issues other than the level increase. No check engine or other symptoms.
The CRV on cold winter days ( 0* to -15*F) you could watch the engine temperature drop at stop lights. 1.5T just could have been air cooled....it just did not develop enough heat to hold temperature at idle. Under way the temperature would return to normal levels. My thought this played a part on the CRV problem.
Unfortunately just before the RDX change I did not check the stick level. But again drained quantity was 5.75 qts
Add 5 qts of Mobil 1 0w-20 new filter and start the engine ran a couple of minutes found it .75 qts low on the stick. ( on level ground)
Went for 10 mile test drive and returned check the oil on the stick after 5 minute of sitting .......found just slightly low of the middle point on the stick. ( A-B marks on the stick)
Checked the oil several more times as it sat for 15-45 minutes. Maybe moved up the stick slightly but still just half way point.
Added a 1/2 qt let it sit and rechecked.......just slightly below the top top mark.
One trick on the dip stick.........rub the orange plastic section witha scotch brite pad to scuff the plastic. It roughens the plastic just enough to better see the oil level on the stick by breaking the surface tension. Just scuff and wipe clean.
So first seeing the extra oil in the drain pan, was thinking CRV a issue........then reading this thread........and refilling 5.5qts..........I have no current concerns that I have any oil real oil dilution issues.
I have no idea why the manual says 5.0 qts with filter.
My ‘19 Ridgeline has no such inconsistencies. 5.7 qts and it hits the top mark every time.
Beginning to think 5.7 qts might be a better spec for the RDX.
The CRV 1.5T had 3.7 qts which is the same as many Honda motorcycles......seems like it could have used more oil ?
5 qts added After test drive wait 5 minutes:
oil level after 5.5 qts added
B
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Miamicarfan
1G TSX (2004-2008)
17
05-16-2009 07:36 PM
russianDude
1G RDX DIY & FAQ
9
07-21-2008 04:02 PM