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If you can find one, the Mach-E Premium AWD Extended Range is the best EV overall. With credits and rebates, my net cost was $46K eleven months ago. Only minor issues have been encountered and they were all corrected with OTA updates. 0-60 mph in 4.8 seconds is addicting and it has the same cargo capacity as our RDX (which we still love and use for longer trips). Over 80% of our charging energy comes from our home solar panels.
Last edited by B25Nut; 07-19-2022 at 04:09 PM.
Reason: Added info
I’m waiting for the dealer to call me about availability of an NX 350h or 450h+. Although I test drove the 450h+ I think the 350h is a much better value with respect to msrp, markup, no need to install L2 charger at home. At 40 mpg a 350h will get the job done. Your gas is cheap. We are currently at around $6.20 for premium, at the peak I paid $7. I had one fill that was almost $110.
No appeal for the new 2023 RX? When we bought our 2019 RDX, a couple of the test drives were the NX and RX. I realize the NX is a whole new car now, but when we drove the two, the RX was the far better car of between them. Of course, the RX is about to become a whole new vehicle as well, has lost that great V6 and the divisive Lexus look has been changed....some. The only thing that stopped the RX back then was that really bad track-pad, and the electronics, like no Apple Car Play. As get back around to looking here again soon, the new RX will get another go.
If you can find one, the Mach-E Premium AWD Extended Range is the best EV overall. With credits and rebates, my net cost was $46K eleven months ago. Only minor issues have been encountered and they were all corrected with OTA updates. 0-60 mph in 4.8 seconds is addicting and it has the same cargo capacity as our RDX (which we still love and use for longer trips). Over 80% of our charging energy comes from our home solar panels.
I think the ev6 is better. Its faster, handles better, has a longer warranty, has faster charging, has similar range, has better interior features, and has a bit more ground clearance. It also has a heat pump. None of the machs do. This is huge for people who live north of Mexico, imo.
No appeal for the new 2023 RX? When we bought our 2019 RDX, a couple of the test drives were the NX and RX. I realize the NX is a whole new car now, but when we drove the two, the RX was the far better car of between them. Of course, the RX is about to become a whole new vehicle as well, has lost that great V6 and the divisive Lexus look has been changed....some. The only thing that stopped the RX back then was that really bad track-pad, and the electronics, like no Apple Car Play. As get back around to looking here again soon, the new RX will get another go.
I’m just a bit impatient. I want to try and get out of the RDX before warranty ends even though I have an extended warranty because the extended doesn’t cover everything. Realistically unless you’re willing to pay a big markup, a hybrid RX is probably a minimum of 6 months away if not longer. It’s also going to be much more expensive, my guess is $60k without markup + ttl. Keep in mind you need the luxury pack just to get lumbar support.
Thanks...interesting. The ID4 was something I was interested in, but reviews have been more so-so than I would like, so probably off the list. Learned a lot from others here about other brands thanks to everyones efforts. GV60 is essentially an Ionic 5/ EV6 of sorts, which seems to be well reviewed, so it will be interesting to hear more about it. Their is the EV- GV70 coming too, but I guess there is a large amount of new EV's coming as well in the next couple years. The issues with range anxiety, where to recharge it, and the eventual cost of a large battery replacement remain the biggest determent for some./plenty.
I just test drove a GV60 Performance. I highly recommend anyone looking for a luxuty compact EV crossover to test drive this car. It drives better than every Tesla I've ever tried, which mind you isn't really saying a whole lot since Teslas are pretty terrible to begin with. Unfortunately, in Canada anyway, they're sold out until end of 2023. Will be putting a deposit on one once the order forms have reopened.
I’m waiting for the dealer to call me about availability of an NX 350h or 450h+. Although I test drove the 450h+ I think the 350h is a much better value with respect to msrp, markup, no need to install L2 charger at home. At 40 mpg a 350h will get the job done. Your gas is cheap. We are currently at around $6.20 for premium, at the peak I paid $7. I had one fill that was almost $110.
Sounds like a good option. Plug in Hybrid are mostly for city, hybrid is better for all around, 50-60 mpg for a ice is equivalent to a EV at 35 cents a kw for DC fast charging. Use to be 40mpg ice equivalent to an EV in energy cost, that went out the window when gas prices accelerated.
I just test drove a GV60 Performance. I highly recommend anyone looking for a luxuty compact EV crossover to test drive this car. It drives better than every Tesla I've ever tried, which mind you isn't really saying a whole lot since Teslas are pretty terrible to begin with. Unfortunately, in Canada anyway, they're sold out until end of 2023. Will be putting a deposit on one once the order forms have reopened.
Tesla is great for 0-60, battery range, and steering feel and a super easy shopping/ordering experience. But in many areas it falls very short -- the suspension is too harsh, the regen braking is too excessive, the visibility is poor, and the steering radius is...well Tesla should be embarrassed about the turning radius. The fit, finish and feel are acceptable but not what is fit for a car that costs as much as they do. Then there's the ownership experience which I can't comment on, but I'm seeing a lot of people leaving Tesla so one way or another, it's not endearing.
(Above observations are for Model Y.)
That said, I don't think I'm ready yet for a Genesis. The styling feels patched/borrowed and from what I hear their track record with reliability is not that great. I wonder how good they are with customer retention.
Tesla is great for 0-60, battery range, and steering feel and a super easy shopping/ordering experience. But in many areas it falls very short -- the suspension is too harsh, the regen braking is too excessive, the visibility is poor, and the steering radius is...well Tesla should be embarrassed about the turning radius. The fit, finish and feel are acceptable but not what is fit for a car that costs as much as they do. Then there's the ownership experience which I can't comment on, but I'm seeing a lot of people leaving Tesla so one way or another, it's not endearing.
(Above observations are for Model Y.)
That said, I don't think I'm ready yet for a Genesis. The styling feels patched/borrowed and from what I hear their track record with reliability is not that great. I wonder how good they are with customer retention.
I haven't driven a model Y, so I don't know how the suspension on that feels, but the regen braking is adjustable within each driver profile. The most aggressive setting takes a day or two to get used to, but the most conservative setting is essentially no different than driving an ICE vehicle.
The turning radius for the Y is 19.9' - doesn't seem that bad to me. The RDX is 19.5' by comparison. Where tesla has the largest advantage over the other EV's though is the charging network they've built. Nothing else is even close at the moment. Tesla is also continuously updating and improving the user interface as well - adding additional features without charging for them. For instance, they've recently added support for traffic light notification (dings when the light turns green) which previously was only available as part of the full self drive package. Meanwhile companies like BMW are beginning to charge subscription pricing for things like heated seats.
Tesla's service center experience is probably the one that needs the most work at this point, but fortunately I haven't needed that just yet.
I haven't driven a model Y, so I don't know how the suspension on that feels, but the regen braking is adjustable within each driver profile. The most aggressive setting takes a day or two to get used to, but the most conservative setting is essentially no different than driving an ICE vehicle.
The turning radius for the Y is 19.9' - doesn't seem that bad to me. The RDX is 19.5' by comparison. Where tesla has the largest advantage over the other EV's though is the charging network they've built. Nothing else is even close at the moment. Tesla is also continuously updating and improving the user interface as well - adding additional features without charging for them. For instance, they've recently added support for traffic light notification (dings when the light turns green) which previously was only available as part of the full self drive package. Meanwhile companies like BMW are beginning to charge subscription pricing for things like heated seats.
Tesla's service center experience is probably the one that needs the most work at this point, but fortunately I haven't needed that just yet.
The turning radius is bad because it's more in line with FWD rather than RWD vehicles (which is what the Tesla is). By comparison, the ID.4 is 16.7'.
I agree that the automatic software updates with new features are a big plus. At some level, the amount of information they have about the driver is scary.
The turning radius is bad because it's more in line with FWD rather than RWD vehicles (which is what the Tesla is). By comparison, the ID.4 is 16.7'.
I agree that the automatic software updates with new features are a big plus. At some level, the amount of information they have about the driver is scary.
The ID.4's turning radius is more of an exceptional outlier than the tesla is bad in my opinion. The model 3 I have has only a slightly smaller radius than the Y and I've never even thought about it being poor until I came across this thread.
I don't worry about the car collecting data on the driver. It can't be any worse than the phone in my pocket.
The ID.4's turning radius is more of an exceptional outlier than the tesla is bad in my opinion. The model 3 I have has only a slightly smaller radius than the Y and I've never even thought about it being poor until I came across this thread.
I don't worry about the car collecting data on the driver. It can't be any worse than the phone in my pocket.
The phone doesn't know about your driving behavior. Of course, I'm sure you have nothing to hide, so this should only be of concern for people that do.
Tesla is great for 0-60, battery range, and steering feel and a super easy shopping/ordering experience. But in many areas it falls very short -- the suspension is too harsh, the regen braking is too excessive, the visibility is poor, and the steering radius is...well Tesla should be embarrassed about the turning radius. The fit, finish and feel are acceptable but not what is fit for a car that costs as much as they do. Then there's the ownership experience which I can't comment on, but I'm seeing a lot of people leaving Tesla so one way or another, it's not endearing.
(Above observations are for Model Y.)
That said, I don't think I'm ready yet for a Genesis. The styling feels patched/borrowed and from what I hear their track record with reliability is not that great. I wonder how good they are with customer retention.
Well, I've bought 3 Genesis vehicles in the past 10 months so they're doing something right. Take a GV60 for a test drive. You might not buy one; you might not even like the way it looks. But there's a lot to be gained in terms of understanding how the product performs especially given your familiarity with Tesla, which gives you a great point of reference.
Sebring, I'll agree with the comment on 'may not even like the way the G60 looks'. Sometimes the Kia/Hyundai/Genesis family get looks pretty right, sometimes not. The G60 I would throw into the 'not' pile, but thats just me. A lot of interesting tech and features, but that front end, hmmm. A neighbor reminded me of a 4th EV question last night to my 3. Beside range anxiety, where do you charge it, how much does a new, giant battery replacement cost...but the neighbors comment.... 'what will states start doing with the loss of gas tax from EV's. You know they are not just going to take a pass'. And lastly, there has been comment on this board that some have found an unpleasant auto insurance quote when getting their EV priced. IF that's true, just one more thing....
Sebring, I'll agree with the comment on 'may not even like the way the G60 looks'. Sometimes the Kia/Hyundai/Genesis family get looks pretty right, sometimes not. The G60 I would throw into the 'not' pile, but thats just me.
Amen to that. It's pretty homely compared to its EV6 and Ioniq 5 platform-mates. It probably "feels" a bit more premium from the driver's seat, but the styling is a big miss. (Or maybe "big mess" is more appropriate?) I'd consider an electric GV70 if I were EV shopping, but like the ID.4 the GV60 wouldn't even make it to the test drive round.
I ended up reserving a Volvo C40 today. The EV6 kept being pushed back and pushed back, and Volvo actually had a VIN to give me along with an ETA and confirmation that the car had actually shipped from Sweden.
Why C40?
-It's simple. I kindof like how simple it is. It has no "modes". It has 1-pedal driving, optional. Turn it on, or turn it off. That's it. There is no eco, sport, super sport, dynamic, whatever. It just IS. I kindof like that.
-On paper the range looks kindof meh, but in 3rd party testing on highway driving at 80, it actually gets identical real world range to the Kia/Hyundai twins.
-It does worse in range than the Premium Mach E AWD in testing by about 50 miles at 75mph in warmer weather, but once you introduce winter temps, ranges on the Mach drop badly while the Volvo not so much.
-It is significantly quicker than any of the Mach's except for the GT. It is almost a dead ringer for the GT in the 1/4 mile, running a 12.8 to its 12.7, but it traps 7mph higher. It has 20 miles less highway range in good weather than the GT. The GT is 0.6 faster 0-60. I'd rather the 7mph trap speed.
-1.1" more ground clearance is nice. May not sound like a lot, but it matters where I live. <6" ground clearance will lead to eating a raccoon in the middle of the road if there is oncoming traffic/it's in a corner.
-It has a heat pump. Something the Mach E doesn't, at any trim level.
-I drive a lot at night. Pixel headlight tech is legit!
-Volvo still gets a $7500 tax credit (along with Kia/Hyundai/Subaru/Ford? and a few others)
-I like the coupe thing. Ever since I saw the AMG and ///M SUV's in it. I liked it. The Volvo has the chops to mirror the X4 M40i, which I think is cool. At least until the end of the quarter mile, lol!
-I like that the vehicle is assembled in Sweden. Sweden has very good labor laws, etc. and I am of the mind that workers treated well, do better work. I don't have the data on that, but I don't know anyone who gets treated badly by their employer who shows up planning to do their best.
I waffled hard on the EV6 vs. C40, often re-thinking that order. Considering that I made it 2mo ago and don't even have a VIN yet, I reserved the C40, which actually exists. If by some miracle the EV6 shows up first, I'll drive it until the C40 arrives.
Last edited by Unobtanium; 07-21-2022 at 01:36 PM.
I ended up reserving a Volvo C40 today. The EV6 kept being pushed back and pushed back, and Volvo actually had a VIN to give me along with an ETA and confirmation that the car had actually shipped from Sweden.
Why C40?
-It's simple. I kindof like how simple it is. It has no "modes". It has 1-pedal driving, optional. Turn it on, or turn it off. That's it. There is no eco, sport, super sport, dynamic, whatever. It just IS. I kindof like that.
-On paper the range looks kindof meh, but in 3rd party testing on highway driving at 80, it actually gets identical real world range to the Kia/Hyundai twins.
-It does worse in range than the Premium Mach E AWD in testing by about 50 miles at 75mph in warmer weather, but once you introduce winter temps, ranges on the Mach drop badly while the Volvo not so much.
-It is significantly quicker than any of the Mach's except for the GT. It is almost a dead ringer for the GT in the 1/4 mile, running a 12.8 to its 12.7, but it traps 7mph higher. It has 20 miles less highway range in good weather than the GT. The GT is 0.6 faster 0-60. I'd rather the 7mph trap speed.
-1.1" more ground clearance is nice. May not sound like a lot, but it matters where I live. <6" ground clearance will lead to eating a raccoon in the middle of the road if there is oncoming traffic/it's in a corner.
-It has a heat pump. Something the Mach E doesn't, at any trim level.
-I drive a lot at night. Pixel headlight tech is legit!
-Volvo still gets a $7500 tax credit (along with Kia/Hyundai/Subaru/Ford? and a few others)
-I like the coupe thing. Ever since I saw the AMG and ///M SUV's in it. I liked it. The Volvo has the chops to mirror the X4 M40i, which I think is cool. At least until the end of the quarter mile, lol!
-I like that the vehicle is assembled in Sweden. Sweden has very good labor laws, etc. and I am of the mind that workers treated well, do better work. I don't have the data on that, but I don't know anyone who gets treated badly by their employer who shows up planning to do their best.
I waffled hard on the EV6 vs. C40, often re-thinking that order. Considering that I made it 2mo ago and don't even have a VIN yet, I reserved the C40, which actually exists. If by some miracle the EV6 shows up first, I'll drive it until the C40 arrives.
For the price of the C40, the GV60 is also within range. The GV60 has better tech, better range, faster charging, better interior, more interior space, and the performance model is faster. The C40 does look better, and the dealership network is much stronger, but even as a Volvo owner I'd have a hard time picking between the two. The 18 min 10-80% charging rate for the GV60 is hard to pass up on, especially for longer trips. The C40 takes twice as long.
For the price of the C40, the GV60 is also within range. The GV60 has better tech, better range, faster charging, better interior, more interior space, and the performance model is faster. The C40 does look better, and the dealership network is much stronger, but even as a Volvo owner I'd have a hard time picking between the two. The 18 min 10-80% charging rate for the GV60 is hard to pass up on, especially for longer trips. The C40 takes twice as long.
-The difference in charge time depends on having a 350kw charger available. With the 50 to 150kw charger, it's identical. So that CAN be an advantage, but not one that is a huge deal maker or breaker to me once I was honest with myself.
-I do like the tech in the GV60 better.
-The IONIC and the C40 have the same range if you're doing 80mph like I do on road trips. At 55mph the Ionic had a huge advantage, but up the mph and it levelled out shockingly. Bjorn's test videos are my source for that.
-I really really like the Volvo lack of modes to be honest. I find myself hating that about my RDX. Just have a mode that does it all.
-The CMA platform and the XC40 on which the C40 is based are not new. Volvo has had time to iron out first year model kinks with it. Genesis and the EGMP platform, have not been as refined. That also means the CMA is more dated. Take your pick.
-I hate sunroofs. The C40's is fixed. Huge personal boon, here.
-Harmon Kardon sound in the C40...B&O in the GV60. I like HK. I like B&O. Both companies make more than 1 speaker and software package, it will be interesting to see how they are implemented, respectively.
-The GV60 is touted to perform 0-60 3.79s in boost mode. That is the Performance Model, AWD. This same model touts a whopping 6 mile longer EPA range than the C40... Sounds like half a second quicker, if the button is pressed. Definitely notable, for sure.
-GV60 interior motif looks like what a poor person in China imagines a rich person in America thinks a swanky interior motif is. It's just so instantly dated.
Took me right back to early 2000's Bently.
C40 by contrast is simple, and nice in its simplicity.
Last edited by Unobtanium; 07-21-2022 at 02:50 PM.
Volvos look the best. But I test drove an XC60 couple of weekends ago and left unimpressed in the comfort dept. My impression was Volvo makes the best seats but this is from many years ago. This time around the seats were OK. At first they gave me a new car but (unknown to them) it had a defective seat so it couldn't get high enough for me. I took the drive and was in pain after. Then I told the SA it's not possible that the seat can't go higher. So I tried the seat in an XC40 and that sure enough went higher. So then I test drove a used XC60 since that is all they had and I found the seat acceptable. But I still prefer the seat of the NX. Now in the suspension/ride department, the XC60 can't compare to the NX. The NX has a much more luxurious ride. Overall just didn't "feel it" for the Volvo.
So for now I have decided on the NX. Hopefully something shows up soon in a color combo I like.
If I wasn't so finicky about seat comfort, the ID.4 would have worked for me. It's a beautiful car, esp exterior. They should get rid of the captain's chair half armrest and fix some quirks like sharing the same buttons for power windows for front and rear and the usability of the infotainment and other others.
Yes...the ID.4 is a very good looking vehicle. I've only seen one on the road but it caught my attention. I have not paid a ton of attention to them yet, but it seems like reviews have been OK, but nothing great.
Yes...the ID.4 is a very good looking vehicle. I've only seen one on the road but it caught my attention. I have not paid a ton of attention to them yet, but it seems like reviews have been OK, but nothing great.
I see them here all the time. At night, the lights both front and rear look sublime. I like the understated interior design aside from the captain's chairs. And the suspension rides really, really smooth.
-The difference in charge time depends on having a 350kw charger available. With the 50 to 150kw charger, it's identical. So that CAN be an advantage, but not one that is a huge deal maker or breaker to me once I was honest with myself.
-I do like the tech in the GV60 better.
-The IONIC and the C40 have the same range if you're doing 80mph like I do on road trips. At 55mph the Ionic had a huge advantage, but up the mph and it levelled out shockingly. Bjorn's test videos are my source for that.
-I really really like the Volvo lack of modes to be honest. I find myself hating that about my RDX. Just have a mode that does it all.
-The CMA platform and the XC40 on which the C40 is based are not new. Volvo has had time to iron out first year model kinks with it. Genesis and the EGMP platform, have not been as refined. That also means the CMA is more dated. Take your pick.
-I hate sunroofs. The C40's is fixed. Huge personal boon, here.
-Harmon Kardon sound in the C40...B&O in the GV60. I like HK. I like B&O. Both companies make more than 1 speaker and software package, it will be interesting to see how they are implemented, respectively.
-The GV60 is touted to perform 0-60 3.79s in boost mode. That is the Performance Model, AWD. This same model touts a whopping 6 mile longer EPA range than the C40... Sounds like half a second quicker, if the button is pressed. Definitely notable, for sure.
-GV60 interior motif looks like what a poor person in China imagines a rich person in America thinks a swanky interior motif is. It's just so instantly dated.
Took me right back to early 2000's Bently.
C40 by contrast is simple, and nice in its simplicity.
That's pretty funny how you described the GV60's interior as being dated. You clearly haven't been inside one. No big deal. Looks are subjective anyway.
Check out Alex's review though. The GV60 is clearly the best EV currently available. Enjoy your Volvo.
That's pretty funny how you described the GV60's interior as being dated. You clearly haven't been inside one. No big deal. Looks are subjective anyway.
Check out Alex's review though. The GV60 is clearly the best EV currently available. Enjoy your Volvo.
Yeah, the steering wheel is horrific, but the rest of it is right proper! It does look snazzy, I'm honestly just over how Kia behaves. If they both came from the same company, it would be hard to turn down the GV60 to the C40, but since they don't, I've got to go with the actual luxury brand, based on how I've been treated. Concierge service is part of it at this price point, and Volvo delivers. Kia does not.
Performance wise, Alex has not released full C40 data, but has XC40. The XC40 stops better (6ft sooner), accelerates to 60 half a second slower than the GV60 boosted, and gets a better handling (A vs B-),and is 1dB louder on the interior. All in all, I really appreciate the simplicity of the C40. No modes other than 1 pedal driving and steering firm/not firm settings. No eco. No sport. No boost. Just hammer it down or modulate it gently. Ironically, t hat is one thing that irritates me on my RDX, is all the modes. It reminds me of the old Civic joke "I was in low boost!". Nah fam, just give me whatever my foot asks for when it asks.
My local dealership had 13 GV60s coming in that they sold at sticker in about an hour. I was at the front of the list but passed because I’m going to wait for the Polestar 3 in October.
07-19-2022, 04:07 PM
