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I would not bet on that. We are no where near ready to move to all electric - "In 2020, the electric share of new vehicle saleswas approximately 2.4%, an increase from about 2% in 2019." We are reliant on oil for the foreseeable future - and prices are 2x where they were 18 months ago when we were oil independent in the USA.
EV sales go up when gas prices go up, and go down when gas gets cheaper. The gas would have to get very expensive to see a big shift. They have plenty of oil, and will lower prices if they see low demand. People talked about hybrids/EVs 10 years ago and saying how in 10yrs everyone will have EV/hybrid, it did not happen, and I do not believe we will see a big shift in next 10 years either
They will never allow oil prices to be so high that everyone starts switching to electric. They are in business of selling oil, and will not allow this to happen.
Gas prices are going higher, much higher. Not to force the switch to electric, just as a part of the inflation game. All commodities are going to go much higher, but that's getting off topic.
Gas prices are going higher, much higher. Not to force the switch to electric, just as a part of the inflation game. All commodities are going to go much higher, but that's getting off topic.
some of it is inflation driven, some of it is supply and demand games. We’ve seen prices go up and down before, they control output of oil, so they play with demand. In 2012 it hit $4, more than now (and its not even adjusted for inflation). Everyone thought it will go to $5, $6, people started panicking, selling their Hummers…. And here are we now, almost 10yr later, panic again…
Last edited by russianDude; 12-28-2021 at 01:27 PM.
Short term (next 5 years), oil prices will remain high due to supply shortages in response to lower demand and the energy transition movement accelerated by the pandemic. Most public traded oil and gas companies are restraining growth capital as investors demand increased returns. Gone are the days of the shale boom in the lower 48 and producers now are less reluctant to increase supply or sustain their drilling program to replenish high decline wells.
BTW, definitely give the Hyundai Ioniq 5 a try, nothing but solid reviews out there
The reality of 6-8 months lead time for most cars also caused me to think of life beyond the RDX. I still love my 2020 A-Spec but with the lease ending in July 2022 so I decided to start the process now. I am still not ready for an EV so I thought about the 2022 A-Spec Elite but decided I want something different and most likely German. I considered the GLC/Q5/X3 again after picking the RDX over them last time and even the GV-70 but decided this will be my last ICE car so I may go all in and get my dream car and build my custom 2022 Porsche Macan. I will probably buy out the RDX to replace the wife's CR-V so I will be able to drive two great SUVs side by side.
The reality of 6-8 months lead time for most cars also caused me to think of life beyond the RDX. I still love my 2020 A-Spec but with the lease ending in July 2022 so I decided to start the process now. I am still not ready for an EV so I thought about the 2022 A-Spec Elite but decided I want something different and most likely German. I considered the GLC/Q5/X3 again after picking the RDX over them last time and even the GV-70 but decided this will be my last ICE car so I may go all in and get my dream car and build my custom 2022 Porsche Macan. I will probably buy out the RDX to replace the wife's CR-V so I will be able to drive two great SUVs side by side.
I’m curious, if you already have another car for long trips, what would make you “not ready” for an EV?
Coming from an Acura, you’re probably going to notice all the things they make the ID.4 a VW and not an Audi. If you can live with it, it’s a pretty good car, but if you can’t (it would certainly get on my nerves over time) waiting for the Q4 E-Tron is probably the better move.
I’m curious, if you already have another car for long trips, what would make you “not ready” for an EV?
For me its not at all about the range or charging options. When I said I am not ready, I meant that for when it comes to cars, for me it's the experience rather than efficiency or common sense. When I look at most EVs, I just don't like the external and internal design. I prefer tactile analog controls to touch screens, I like to see a grill and exults tips, and don't get me started about the wheel design on most EVs. I also find that most EVs compromise material and build quality to meet the right price. I like better what Audi and Porsche did with the e-tron and Taycan but they are just too expensive today. I have no doubt that in 3-5 years I will get an EV, I feel that the next generation of EVs will be less of a compromise. I also feel that some manufacturers like Acura decides to skip the current gen of EVs since they don't wanted to compromise, and will come out with strong offerings in the 3-5 years range.
Bingo, I semi-love it a bit more than my '19 Acura RDX Advance; the two big things are native Android Auto (I can tell it to turn on/off my heated steering wheel via voice, set temperature, find things pretty well, etc.) and it is fast (408 horsepower and 487 lb-ft of torque) / & tows more (2,000 lbs).
It's a fun ride! Quiet, unique, and built & balanced well.
Last edited by OliveBread; 01-11-2022 at 12:23 AM.
Polestar hit the head on the nail when it comes to Android Auto! They essentially made it part of the cars DNA. Pretty smooth experience and great integration with my Google Maps and Spotify.
The build quality of the car is fantastic too. Panel gaps are even, no rattles or creeks and very good overall. They engineered the car up to be as safe as possible — look up the SPOC Block they engineered for this to prevent off-center hits where the wheels / shocks and other stuff can go into the cabin. They get deflected off the side.
Since Polestar was the performance division for Volvo it has excellent handling and fairly solid feel when driving. Super fun to drive. It also keeps up with Supercars on the Nurburgring track -
about 3:30 in you can see it keeps up with a Ferrari and a Porsche .
It was no brainer for me because it had 2-years of free charging at Electrify America, $7,500 tax credit + local incentives, and 0% APR with $0 down for 60-months. Wife and I have the money to buy it outright from our savings but having capital on hand is great so the $0 down was nice!
Last edited by OliveBread; 01-11-2022 at 12:52 AM.
Bingo, I semi-love it a bit more than my '19 Acura RDX Advance; the two big things are native Android Auto (I can tell it to turn on/off my heated steering wheel via voice, set temperature, find things pretty well, etc.) and it is fast (408 horsepower and 487 lb-ft of torque) / & tows more (2,000 lbs).
It's a fun ride! Quiet, unique, and built & balanced well.
Getting about 200+ miles and very good range. Takes about 30-some off minutes to charge from 10% to 80% (200 usable miles @ 80%).
Took a trip from Seattle to Portland and was left with 45%. About 100 miles usable. Then went to charge real quick, grab a drink and use the bathroom was charged back up to 80% (200 miles) by the time I got back.
Getting about 200+ miles and very good range. Takes about 30-some off minutes to charge from 10% to 80% (200 usable miles @ 80%).
Took a trip from Seattle to Portland and was left with 45%. About 100 miles usable. Then went to charge real quick, grab a drink and use the bathroom was charged back up to 80% (200 miles) by the time I got back.
were you able to stack state and federal rebates on the polestar?
I would not bet on that. We are no where near ready to move to all electric - "In 2020, the electric share of new vehicle saleswas approximately 2.4%, an increase from about 2% in 2019." We are reliant on oil for the foreseeable future - and prices are 2x where they were 18 months ago when we were oil independent in the USA.
Don’t you worry, the USA oil companies are making plenty of money too. Always easier to blame foreigners for all the ills…..
Hoe does service on a Polestar work? it looks there maybe two dozen dealers across the US according to Polestars website.
Service… what service lol 😂 no oil changes or anything. Main reason also I got this was no maintenance. Just need to change wipers and wiper fluid. Maybe brakes far far far down the road.
But they either tow or some Volvo dealers have a tech that can work on Polestar since they are the close to the same (this uses the XC40 platform). It seemed mine was tied to an Acura dealership since it was under a larger auto group sales.
EV technology is advancing so fast that I'm trying to hold out. The RDX is my wife's daily driver and I have a 2nd gen Chevy Volt I do 90 miles a day on. I've test driven an AWD Mach E and I enjoyed it, but not the price. Now I'm waiting on the Kia EV6, and 6 months ago I didn't even know it was coming out. Then there's the ID4 and the Hyundai Ioniq and it seems every 6 months there's something newer and better. Hopefully my Volt can last me another 3 years, car prices will go back to normal, and some new EV will be out that was worth waiting for.
A long time ago, shortly after the first test drive, I put a $100 deposit to get in line to order one of these. I just received an email asking for an additional $400 to get to the next stage. If I don't act in 14 days, then I forfeit my place in line. I kind of decided against it after my second test drive which was quite a bit longer than the first. The car still drove well, but my back did not like the seats on the longer ride. So I think I will let this lapse. I would still say that the ID.4 is the favorite among all the electric cars I have driven so far -- Tesla Y, ID.4, bZ4X. The bZ4X is the one I liked the least -- it was neither comfortable nor did it drive well.
A long time ago, shortly after the first test drive, I put a $100 deposit to get in line to order one of these. I just received an email asking for an additional $400 to get to the next stage. If I don't act in 14 days, then I forfeit my place in line. I kind of decided against it after my second test drive which was quite a bit longer than the first. The car still drove well, but my back did not like the seats on the longer ride. So I think I will let this lapse. I would still say that the ID.4 is the favorite among all the electric cars I have driven so far -- Tesla Y, ID.4, bZ4X. The bZ4X is the one I liked the least -- it was neither comfortable nor did it drive well.
I thought the massage seats of the ID4 Pro S were amazing, equal to the RDX seat. The additional $400 fee to lock it is fully refundable. Orders are so backed up, that the typical delivery time is 7-11 months.
The power of the dual motor (AWD) is amazing, and not having to pay $75+ to fill up my RDX tank would be magical.
I may be in the minority camp on this forum, however I wish Acura would bridge the gap in the RDX to go Hybrid with better mpg and performance, while they catch up to all the other EV players.
I thought the massage seats of the ID4 Pro S were amazing, equal to the RDX seat. The additional $400 fee to lock it is fully refundable. Orders are so backed up, that the typical delivery time is 7-11 months.
The power of the dual motor (AWD) is amazing, and not having to pay $75+ to fill up my RDX tank would be magical.
I may be in the minority camp on this forum, however I wish Acura would bridge the gap in the RDX to go Hybrid with better mpg and performance, while they catch up to all the other EV players.
I have found Lexus seats work well so I’m thinking of getting an NX 350h or 450h+ (the latter is too pricey because of markup). And then evaluate my options in 3 or 4 years. Even to get a 350h in a color combo I want requires a wait and probably a markup.
On my second test drive with the ID.4 it was a hot day and I found sunroof visor wasn’t effective in keeping the heat out. I also tried to adjust the climate control and found the infotainment very hard to use because the buttons don’t register the input very well. So in addition to seat comfort, those were a bit of a turn off.
The ID.4 lacks in performance and looks cheap to me. Also, its a VW. I didn't really look into it.
The kia ev6 looks good to me, and has good dynamics and performance from all Ive seen and read.
The C40 and XC40 also look good.
I looked at the ev6 and c40. The ev6 has a lot more features and tech and range and charges 2x as fast, though. Also, not many volvo dealers around. I liked the quality and lines of the volvo, but it has zero tech or features hardly. Super basic utilitarian vehicle with nav, but priced premium.
Mach e is a Ford. Also doesn't even have a heat pump. Didnt even look into it.
Tesla is trash tier quality. Best charging network and electronic motor performance though.
Acura and Honda will use GM systems. ultima platform, I beleive its called. No thanks.
Last edited by Unobtanium; 07-14-2022 at 11:38 PM.
The ID.4 lacks in performance and looks cheap to me. Also, its a VW. I didn't really look into it.
The kia ev6 looks good to me, and has good dynamics and performance from all Ive seen and read.
The C40 and XC40 also look good.
I looked at the ev6 and c40. The ev6 has a lot more features and tech and range and charges 2x as fast, though. Also, not many volvo dealers around. I liked the quality and lines of the volvo, but it has zero tech or features hardly. Super basic utilitarian vehicle with nav, but priced premium.
Mach e is a Ford. Also doesn't even have a heat pump. Didnt even look into it.
Tesla is trash tier quality. Best charging network and electronic motor performance though.
Acura and Honda will use GM systems. ultima platform, I beleive its called. No thanks.
Yep - Everyone pings Tesla for their inferior quality - but its not as bad as you hear.Most Most I have seen have good panel gaps, nice paint and solid. You buy the Tesla for the superior charging network and that they figured out the software interface. Plus - they are super fast.
Other players.
VW is the same family as Porsche and Audi. High quality.
Ford - Mach E is good, just so limited in availability.
Rivian - Make some high quality vehicles - backed by Ford and Amazon.
Kia, Hyundai and now Genesis - share the same platform and sure good build qualities.
Nissan coming on line with their new EV SUV - with the LEAF as the entry level.
Volvo, Fisker, Lucid Air - are small players with a small network of dealers.
GM - The New Bolt EUV post battery mfg issues, is one great priced EV with lots of options. Plus GM is building a platform for Cady that Honda will share for their SUV EV's.
Charging speeds vary, the fastest ones are good for the first 10-15 minutes, as when the batteries get fuller, temps climb in the battery pack and voltage has to be dialed back - done through a supercharger (Level 3). Though that meaningless if you only charge at home on a level 2 charger (similar to a dryer plug connection - 220).
Lots of options. None are perfect, it just a matter of if you are ready to move to an EV, budget and where you will use it.
Yep - Everyone pings Tesla for their inferior quality - but its not as bad as you hear.Most Most I have seen have good panel gaps, nice paint and solid. You buy the Tesla for the superior charging network and that they figured out the software interface. Plus - they are super fast.
Other players.
VW is the same family as Porsche and Audi. High quality.
Ford - Mach E is good, just so limited in availability.
Rivian - Make some high quality vehicles - backed by Ford and Amazon.
Kia, Hyundai and now Genesis - share the same platform and sure good build qualities.
Nissan coming on line with their new EV SUV - with the LEAF as the entry level.
Volvo, Fisker, Lucid Air - are small players with a small network of dealers.
GM - The New Bolt EUV post battery mfg issues, is one great priced EV with lots of options. Plus GM is building a platform for Cady that Honda will share for their SUV EV's.
Charging speeds vary, the fastest ones are good for the first 10-15 minutes, as when the batteries get fuller, temps climb in the battery pack and voltage has to be dialed back - done through a supercharger (Level 3). Though that meaningless if you only charge at home on a level 2 charger (similar to a dryer plug connection - 220).
Lots of options. None are perfect, it just a matter of if you are ready to move to an EV, budget and where you will use it.
I see a ton of Teslas. All of them look horrible from a quality of aseembly perspective. Every single one Ive looked at up close has multiple nibs in the paint, paint thickness variances the naked eye can see in the depth, sheen. Body panel gaps no good. Every tesla owner that gets rid of them complains of rattles. No. Thanks.
I see a ton of Teslas. All of them look horrible from a quality of aseembly perspective. Every single one Ive looked at up close has multiple nibs in the paint, paint thickness variances the naked eye can see in the depth, sheen. Body panel gaps no good. Every tesla owner that gets rid of them complains of rattles. No. Thanks.
Ain't nothing perfect or great anymore "Unobtanium". IMO - just choose the best vehicle that meets your needs and budget. BTW - More people are buying than selling Tesla's right now and more people are buying EV's too than ever before.
Build quality is not what it use to be (on anything, not only related to vehicles) - just seen/read the nightmare post on this forum of the Acura sunroof glass seal issue - that's a nightmare if not fixed correctly.
Ain't nothing perfect or great anymore "Unobtanium". IMO - just choose the best vehicle that meets your needs and budget. BTW - More people are buying than selling Tesla's right now and more people are buying EV's too than ever before.
Build quality is not what it use to be (on anything, not only related to vehicles) - just seen/read the nightmare post on this forum of the Acura sunroof glass seal issue - that's a nightmare if not fixed correctly.
Other auto maker's worst, is better than Tesla's best. I don't vote for underdogs.
Interesting discussion. I test drove the Mach E not too long ago and was really disappointed with its very plastic interior. It just felt cheap. I'm considering getting a GV60 to go with my GV80 and GV70 though. Test drive set for this afternoon.
Thanks...interesting. The ID4 was something I was interested in, but reviews have been more so-so than I would like, so probably off the list. Learned a lot from others here about other brands thanks to everyones efforts. GV60 is essentially an Ionic 5/ EV6 of sorts, which seems to be well reviewed, so it will be interesting to hear more about it. Their is the EV- GV70 coming too, but I guess there is a large amount of new EV's coming as well in the next couple years. The issues with range anxiety, where to recharge it, and the eventual cost of a large battery replacement remain the biggest determent for some./plenty.
I see a ton of Teslas. All of them look horrible from a quality of aseembly perspective. Every single one Ive looked at up close has multiple nibs in the paint, paint thickness variances the naked eye can see in the depth, sheen. Body panel gaps no good. Every tesla owner that gets rid of them complains of rattles. No. Thanks.
I won't deny that panel gaps and paint variation hasn't been a problem in years past, but at least on the 2022's I've seen it looks like they have come a long way. We picked ours up in March and I've honestly not had a single complaint about anything build quality related. The paint has been fine, and it's quiet. No rattles or anything to speak of. Many other owners in the new owner subforum at TMC reporting similar. And if you order one that you aren't satisfied with at delivery, they'll put you back in queue to get a different one until you are satisfied with. To say that all of them look horrible from a quality perspective is a bit of an overstatement.
Thanks...interesting. The ID4 was something I was interested in, but reviews have been more so-so than I would like, so probably off the list. Learned a lot from others here about other brands thanks to everyones efforts. GV60 is essentially an Ionic 5/ EV6 of sorts, which seems to be well reviewed, so it will be interesting to hear more about it. Their is the EV- GV70 coming too, but I guess there is a large amount of new EV's coming as well in the next couple years. The issues with range anxiety, where to recharge it, and the eventual cost of a large battery replacement remain the biggest determent for some./plenty.
Probably want to keep an eye on the Polestar 3. If you're not familiar, Polestar is a Swedish brand owned by Volvo (who is in turn owned by China's Geely). But unlike the China-made Polestar 2, the Polestar 3 will be assembled right here in South Carolina. European pricing was just announced, and it's higher than I expected (the equivalent of about $63k to start without VAT). Still, it looks to be reasonably competitive. Sure is handsome enough, although you can bet the interior will be largely devoid of physical switchgear.
Yes, the Pole 3 looks great. I just wonder/worry about dealer network...is it the Volvo's dealers for service? I assume EV won't need as much service as ICE, but it will need something...there have been enough recalls, etc on EV's already. We owned a BMW in a city that did not have any dealerships (closest was 90 minutes away) which was a real pain at times...I wouldn't do that again.
Coincidentally, I'm looking at a short article on the Blazer right now on MT online. Looks are subjective, but I think that Blazer is pretty damn great looking also...but then I also think the same about the Lyriq, inside and out. There seems to be something about a lot of the new EV's and their looks...real sharp.
And Texas....$4.50 a gallon...I could only dream!
What are you going to buy then? Still have several EV orders - not cancelling any of them. Tired of averaging 16 mpg and $4.50/gal petrol.
I’m waiting for the dealer to call me about availability of an NX 350h or 450h+. Although I test drove the 450h+ I think the 350h is a much better value with respect to msrp, markup, no need to install L2 charger at home. At 40 mpg a 350h will get the job done. Your gas is cheap. We are currently at around $6.20 for premium, at the peak I paid $7. I had one fill that was almost $110.
12-28-2021, 01:15 PM
. Loving it so far. It's a hatchback. Guess what it is 
.
