|
Those who said this is a PR stunt is giving Acura marketing too much credit.
Also, you would typically pull this type of stunt near launch or you risk loosing momentum or sales of existing MDX. Guess they now would really have to heavily discount the current MDX. And dealers can't feed bs line such as "not much change" to get you to buy one now |
Originally Posted by mathnerd88
(Post 16452457)
Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus have all been generally understood as the luxury division of the Japanese automakers. Acura was generally known as the worst out of three and was priced accordingly. They’re cheaper than Infiniti and Lexus but it doesn’t mean they’re not luxury.
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Originally Posted by justnspace
(Post 16452326)
it has to be an accident or they wouldnt have released DMCA's :rofl:
they finally wised up and realized they couldnt scrub EVERY picture off the internet. |
Originally Posted by fiatlux
(Post 16452517)
There's one dimension that both Acura and Infinity sorely lack; the ability to option the car with some more over-the-top features. Massaging seats, a built in drink cooler, side window sunshades, power headrests, soft close doors, etc. Granted, a lot of these are unnecessary and a tad extravagant, but that's what luxury is supposed to be; it's not supposed to have a strong value-prop. Without the option to even add these, I'd argue the cars are premium, but not luxury. The problem is that Acura's identity is that it's strong value, and in doing so, it's really really hard to reconcile that with the idea of luxury.
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Originally Posted by Dereileak
(Post 16452365)
I would disagree with that, have you sat in a normal car before, Acura is getting pretty decent at luxury I would say especially with this newest version of the RDX. Everyone who had sat in mine is always very impressed with how fancy it is.
Even Google confirms it. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...4be5d01813.png :D |
Originally Posted by justnspace
(Post 16452329)
what company sends out Cease and Desist letters, if it was an accident?
Originally Posted by justnspace
(Post 16452330)
Chevy didnt do that when leaking the C8 mid-engine vette.
Google didnt do that when leaking the pixel 3a and 4
Originally Posted by justnspace
(Post 16452333)
re-read the PR spin...
it pretty much says " alright, you caught us..." It's a good argument. OTOH .... the poster who found this has been on AZ for a couple of weeks. He has 14 posts. All of them in two threads that he started .... one on how to hack the head unit and one on these images. It's a little sketchy if you're inclined to think that way. |
Originally Posted by zroger73
(Post 16452184)
It's now on Carscoops.com and Motor1.com as well and is being shared on Facebook groups. Congratulations, @rdx.god. You're a celebrity and someone just clocked out for the last time at Acura today. :) Unfortunately, media outlets continue to propagate that these may be 2020 year models when, in fact, they aren't. The 2020 TLX has been on Acura's website for months and the 2020 MDX is a carryover of the 2019.
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Originally Posted by Bearcat94
(Post 16452552)
It's a good argument.
OTOH .... the poster who found this has been on AZ for a couple of weeks. He has 14 posts. All of them in two threads that he started .... one on how to hack the head unit and one on these images. It's a little sketchy if you're inclined to think that way. Hey, at least Azine got an article reference out of it from C&D. :smile: |
As per the luxury debate. Can we all just agree that luxury is a purely personal and subjective concept? Someone who has driven Chevys their entire life would look at the Acura products and think they are luxury meanwhile someone used to driving upper level Mercedes products would scoff at an Acura.
We can all agree that a Range Rover is luxurious yes? So now let's relate that back to Acura, are you guys telling me that an Acura RDX is also luxurious? So an RDX is luxurious and a Range Rover is also luxurious? That's what I mean by purely subjective and personal. As you move up in tiers, you begin to notice little details like aluminum buttons, softer materials covering more surfaces...etc. So then when you step back "down" in tiers, it becomes very obvious that what is luxury and what isn't, is subjective. |
Originally Posted by JMC99
(Post 16452564)
Why do you think the mdx will be a carryover for 2020? The 2020 rdx and tlx are carryovers for 2020 and they are on the website. The 2020 mdx strangely is not. Do you know something?
https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g.../#post16451930 |
Originally Posted by RDX10
(Post 16452571)
As per the luxury debate. Can we all just agree that luxury is a purely personal and subjective concept? Someone who has driven Chevys their entire life would look at the Acura products and think they are luxury meanwhile someone used to driving upper level Mercedes products would scoff at an Acura.
We can all agree that a Range Rover is luxurious yes? So now let's relate that back to Acura, are you guys telling me that an Acura RDX is also luxurious? So an RDX is luxurious and a Range Rover is also luxurious? That's what I mean by purely subjective and personal. As you move up in tiers, you begin to notice little details like aluminum buttons, softer materials covering more surfaces...etc. So then when you step back "down" in tiers, it becomes very obvious that what is luxury and what isn't, is subjective. Well said! I actually can't tell "much" difference between a loaded Honda vs an Acura. Material and driving wise, they are very similar. I'm talking like an Accord V6 vs a TL or Odyssey Elite vs an MDX kind of stuff. Old Toyota vs Lexus was the same way... Emphasis on was! |
Originally Posted by RDX10
(Post 16452571)
As per the luxury debate. Can we all just agree that luxury is a purely personal and subjective concept? Someone who has driven Chevys their entire life would look at the Acura products and think they are luxury meanwhile someone used to driving upper level Mercedes products would scoff at an Acura.
We can all agree that a Range Rover is luxurious yes? So now let's relate that back to Acura, are you guys telling me that an Acura RDX is also luxurious? So an RDX is luxurious and a Range Rover is also luxurious? That's what I mean by purely subjective and personal. As you move up in tiers, you begin to notice little details like aluminum buttons, softer materials covering more surfaces...etc. So then when you step back "down" in tiers, it becomes very obvious that what is luxury and what isn't, is subjective. Acura is a luxury brand. MB is an even more luxurious brand, but to me, it would be the opposite. MB, IMHO, fails in the seat comfort which is one of the basic tenets of a luxury brand, to me. The only reason why I would consider MB a luxury brand because it costs so damn much for one brand new, but then it depreciates the fastest. |
Originally Posted by zroger73
(Post 16452572)
See my post on the first page of this thread.
https://acurazine.com/forums/third-generation-rdx-2019-454/possible-images-next-gen-mdx-tlx-found-rdx-systemui-apk-980889/"#post16451930 |
Originally Posted by mathnerd88
(Post 16452592)
Exactly. That's what I was trying to say. Most of the general public considers Acura a luxury brand. The <1% who actually drives BMW's, MB, etc won't. I myself have driven a Lexus LS430, ES350, Infiniti I35, G35 and G37, and a '15 MB E350. I just recently bought a 19 RDX. They're all luxury vehicles to me. Honestly, I don't even think Mercedes is that much better than the Acura and it costs $20k more with higher maintenance costs and less reliability. Yes, the small things like power rear sunshade is nice, but I fail to see how that makes it 'luxury.' Of all of them, the LS430 has the best seats, and the RDX coming in at a close second. Mercedes has the worst one of them all, and people consider them a luxury brand.
Acura is a luxury brand. MB is an even more luxurious brand. Acura IMO is kinda like the Audi of Japan, if you will. Audi people don't give off that snob impression MB and BMW iwners do and genuinely seem to know or have some enthusiasm about their cars... |
Originally Posted by hockeyaddict
(Post 16452441)
Acura has hit the nail on the head with the pentagon grill design. It's made every model look soooo much better.
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As long as it still looks good in 10 years!
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Originally Posted by Midnight Mystery
(Post 16452598)
If you can deal with a soft suspension go with a Lexus for better quality! MB is overrated, I think. I still see them everywhere...
Acura IMO is kinda like the Audi of Japan, if you will. Audi people don't give off that snob impression MB and BMW iwners do and genuinely seem to know or have some enthusiasm about their cars... I find the interior of Audi's pretty lacking. The only thing that's going for them is the Audi virtual cockpit, which now BMW and MB have already implemented in their cars. Otherwise, the interior is pretty minimalistic and the middle screen is too small. Their interior is pretty minimalistic. I'm not sure if that's the thing every car manufacturer is going for in the future, because Tesla is doing the same thing. However, the Audi drives much nicer than the MB. I've test driven the A3 and the S3 and compared it to the MB C-Class. |
The leak pictures of the MDX if proven accurate is impressive. I especially like the ambient lighting. With infotainment and build quality issues with my 2019 RDX redesign I would take a pass considering another Acura. I would suggest anyone to stay away from first gen redesign. Lesson learned for me.
Now Acura need to fix the shitty infotainment and build issues. |
Originally Posted by RDX10
(Post 16452571)
As per the luxury debate. Can we all just agree that luxury is a purely personal and subjective concept? Someone who has driven Chevys their entire life would look at the Acura products and think they are luxury meanwhile someone used to driving upper level Mercedes products would scoff at an Acura.
See what YEH posted here (post #4721) https://acurazine.com/forums/automot.../#post16450930 When Honda's Acura brand shows off its new flagship RLX sedan at the Los Angles Auto Show on Wednesday, it will be confronted with a marketing conundrum — how to brand the car as a luxury rival to BMW or Lexus rather than just a more expensive Honda. It's a problem of Honda's own making. When it launched Acura back in 1986, Honda conceived an "intercept" brand. "It was to be the next step for the Accord owner," said John Mendel, executive vice president of American Honda Motor Co., "a place to move up without going to the European luxury models." That proved successful for years. Acura sales peaked at nearly 210,000 in 2005, according to automotive website MotorIntelligence. But as luxury car competition grew more varied and fierce, Acura became what Mendel called a "tweener" brand: upscale but not quite luxury. Sales plummeted to barely 123,000 last year — about half the annual volume of each of the top luxury makes: BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Lexus. "Acura is not defined, other than to be a step up from Honda," said Thilo Koslowski, an automotive analyst at research firm Gartner Inc. "It needs a place within the premium domain. They need to be unique and differentiated." Jeff Conrad, vice president of American Honda Motor's Acura division, concedes that dealers' expectations are high. He says Acura is working to improve its vehicles, marketing, and retail network. But achieving those goals will take time, he warns. "Every product we launch becomes more of a Tier One product." Conrad says. "But you don't just snap your fingers and do it overnight. It is a long-term effort." Acura dealers say they like the revamped TL. But T.Y. Lai, COO of the western region for DCH Auto Group, says sales of the redesigned model have been disappointing. "We don't consider it luxury yet," says Lai, whose company owns four U.S. Acura dealerships. "I don't think the buyer considers it luxury." Acura must offer vehicles in higher-priced segments if it wants to be considered a Tier 1 luxury brand, says Tom Libby, senior director of industry analysis at J.D. Power and Associates. Acura has formed a 25-person team of executives to define how it will achieve Tier 1 luxury status. John Mendel, executive vice president of automobile operations at American Honda, heads the team. |
Originally Posted by AZuser
(Post 16452629)
Ok. But what does it say when even Acura's own people don't consider Acura luxury?
See what YEH posted here (post #4721) https://acurazine.com/forums/automot.../#post16450930 Even an Acura dealership owner doesn't consider Acura luxury. |
So, the new "TLX" looks nearly identical to the Genesis G70. The MDX still looks about the same with possible Air suspension. I know one thing for sure, Acura isn't going to "shake" up the competition. In fact, Acura is still LAST to the show. While the rest of the automotive industry has moved on to using force induction while Acura is still using decades old N/A engine design. Not til recently with the introduction of the RDX and NSX newest models. As for the ambient interior lighting, again, this has been a feature on many other vehicles but I guess for Acura "better later than never" seems to be the story with them. I have a feeling the new MDX will have air suspension judging on the height. The biggest issue Acura is going to have is, who is going to switch over to Acura and spend 60-90K for a performance sedan or SUV? Is it going to be on the same level as like the Competition? I doubt it. Why would anyone spend 60K on a TLX-S when at that price most buyers will lean towards owning a German vehicle. Acura has been out of touch with buyers since 2009. The 90's and early 2000's were the best for Acura since then it's been a shit show. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that a lot of people are going to be disappointment.
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Originally Posted by mathnerd88
(Post 16452664)
I don’t understand how one Acura dealership owner can generalize about all of Acura and how buyers think of Acura. Luxury is subjective..
Did you miss the part where John Mendel said Acura wasn't luxury? You know who John Mendel is, right? |
Originally Posted by 04WDPSeDaN
(Post 16452665)
... Why would anyone spend 60K on a TLX-S when at that price most buyers will lean towards owning a German vehicle....
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Originally Posted by ToniRDX19
(Post 16452677)
Answer: Anyone without endless money pits who want to keep a reliable car and not keeping up with the Jones. Why would anyone spend $60k+ vehicle that depreciates within a year faster than a bad diarrhea. European brands are the one with the highest buyer regrets. Owner trade-in or resale at as loss in the first 1-2 years more than any brand.
You mean to tell me that Acura has been or is more reliable than the Germans?? I think you should check that statement again. I've owned my Acura for 13 years and have dealt with some shitty repairs and defects and I also worked for Acura as a Master Certified Technician. I know a bit more than your average person when it comes to this crap. I give it to you on the re-sale value but not for nothing, every vehicle is a loss. You will never get what you paid for it unless it's a specific vehicle which has high demands like a Supra or 1st gen NSX ect. Most buyers are NOT going to Acura and spending 60K+ I assure you on that. |
Originally Posted by 1Louder
(Post 16452565)
Get Majofo on it. :ninja:
Hey, at least Azine got an article reference out of it from C&D. :smile: 88,000 views in less than 2 days. That's a pretty good rate of traffic. |
Originally Posted by AZuser
(Post 16452672)
Selective reading
Did you miss the part where John Mendel said Acura wasn't luxury? You know who John Mendel is, right? Times have changed. Look at Hyundai. |
Originally Posted by JMC99
(Post 16452593)
I see that now. I must of just read it but it really didn't sink in. I probably just don't know the lingo but I really have no idea what "TQI procedures" are. I am looking through that thread to see if it is explained.
More to the point, detailed TQI procedures ( intended for dealers ) get posted by a loyal Acurazine member before the vehicles ( of a particular model year ) actually appear on the dealer lots, and rabid Acura fans can glean something from this information as to whether a model has changed for the new model year. |
Originally Posted by 04WDPSeDaN
(Post 16452665)
So, the new "TLX" looks nearly identical to the Genesis G70. The MDX still looks about the same with possible Air suspension. I know one thing for sure, Acura isn't going to "shake" up the competition. In fact, Acura is still LAST to the show. While the rest of the automotive industry has moved on to using force induction while Acura is still using decades old N/A engine design. Not til recently with the introduction of the RDX and NSX newest models. As for the ambient interior lighting, again, this has been a feature on many other vehicles but I guess for Acura "better later than never" seems to be the story with them. I have a feeling the new MDX will have air suspension judging on the height. The biggest issue Acura is going to have is, who is going to switch over to Acura and spend 60-90K for a performance sedan or SUV? Is it going to be on the same level as like the Competition? I doubt it. Why would anyone spend 60K on a TLX-S when at that price most buyers will lean towards owning a German vehicle. Acura has been out of touch with buyers since 2009. The 90's and early 2000's were the best for Acura since then it's been a shit show. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that a lot of people are going to be disappointment.
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Acura needs to rush both of these vehicles to debuts then production very quickly. Their lineup is very long in the tooth. Despite the Genesis G70 flat out copying the profile of the TLX, there will be many that will rush to claim Acura is copying Genesis. And the Genesis SUV bears a strong resemblance to these images of the MDX.
I do like the styling of both of these cars. The MDX has a nice, aggressive stance and profile, though I do miss the "bulldog" stance of the previous generation (not current) but obviously third-row legroom is an important factor. The TLX is also nice and aggressive, with a nice, low stance. Though this is where folks may clearly claim that Acura is copying the G80 rear quarter window design. But the rest looks sharp and I'm excited to see what it would be in Type-S form. Now Acura needs to work on bringing back its ZDX or an appropriate value-alternative to the RR Sport. And get the RLX flagship right finally!! |
[QUOTE=cflekken;16452754]Acura needs to rush both of these vehicles to debuts then production very quickly... /QUOTE]
No, Acura needs to take their time and do it right. They simply cannot afford another poor new model launch. |
Originally Posted by cflekken
(Post 16452750)
You do realize that the G70 essentially took the exact profile of the TLX and used it, right? Do you not see the more-than-clear resemblance. So, you tell me who is "last to the show". And those who would spend $60K on a TLX Type S are the ones who would need to spend upwards of $70K for a comparably equipped M340i, C43 AMG, S4.
I'm sorry but explain to me how the 2019 G70 takes after the 2014 TLX? The G70 is currently out in production and has been in the works for the last year. The leaked "TLX" photo isn't in production and looks A LOT LIKE THE G70.. You got it twisted. The G70 is still offered with a 6mt and a 2.0T engine and for those that want more performance they get the 3.3L AWD version, which already has a reflash tune. You're missing the point that other manufactures make vehicles that consumers want. A lot of performance companies are doing supporting mods for many of these vehicles. Acura doesn't have a clear direction of where the industry is. They are playing catching up while everyone else is pulling away. Like I said, I know a bit more than your average joe. |
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...e52959a8a9.jpg
In Production https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...91ccc4b0a4.jpg Not in Production |
Originally Posted by mathnerd88
(Post 16452744)
You're also quoting from an article that is 7 years old. Your other direct quote is from an article 11 years ago actually.
Times have changed. Look at Hyundai. Genesis has leapt past Acura. :2cents: https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...nda/101031122/ Acura seeks electrifying new identity Published 11:14 p.m. ET April 29, 2017 LOUISVILLE, Ky. – Honda’s struggling Acura brand hopes to reverse its fortunes by building a reputation for sporty hybrid vehicles that deliver smart performance. The best advice for a luxury brand is, ”Be who you are,” Acura general manager Jon Ikeda said over dinner as he prepared to introduce the brand’s freshened TLX sedan. The renewed emphasis on performance and hybrid technology harken back to Acura’s origins and Honda’s brief status as the industry’s hybrid leader. It’s a challenging proposition, particularly given Acura’s over-reliance on sedans in a market rejecting them in favor of SUVs. "We are a performance brand,” not a luxury marques, said Ikeda, who moved into Acura management after 26 years as a designer. There’s some truth to that, but Acura has lacked a focused image for most of the brand’s 31-year existence. Honda created it to be Japan’s first upscale brand, selling vehicles only in the U.S. Acura now also exists in China, and Honda expects it to eventually be a global brand. But there’s a lot of work to be done. Acura’s U.S. sales have fallen as most luxury brands rose, and its sedan-heavy model line is out of touch with the trend to SUVs. The brand’s blurry identity stems from the fact that while it initially rebadged performance cars from Honda, the main brand also coveted those high-profile models. It was a sibling rivalry the smaller and younger Acura was doomed to lose. Honda’s philosophical emphasis on efficiency further limited the brand by keeping it from developing the rear-wheel-drive and V8 luxury and performance that helped nouveau luxe brands Lexus, Infiniti and Genesis make their mark. “Acura got confused as to what the brand stood for and fell off people’s consideration lists,” IHS Markit senior analyst Stephanie Brinley said. |
Originally Posted by 04WDPSeDaN
(Post 16452769)
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...e52959a8a9.jpg
In Production https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...91ccc4b0a4.jpg Not in Production I don't see it |
Originally Posted by acuraada
(Post 16452774)
That's like saying all the SUV with sloping roofline looks the same.
I don't see it |
Originally Posted by RDX10
(Post 16452292)
The reason I'm saying a long hood designates a cramped interior is because manufacturers sometimes want to keep a vehicle within a certain length and if more of that length is going to the hood, then that naturally means less is going to the interior. That's what I meant by that comment.
It appears that lift is only to help with towing or with passengers in the rear. Kind of disappointed, was hoping for a full air suspension setup like in the germans. |
Originally Posted by ToniRDX19
(Post 16452677)
Answer: Anyone without endless money pits who want to keep a reliable car and not keeping up with the Jones. Why would anyone spend $60k+ vehicle that depreciates within a year faster than a bad diarrhea. European brands are the one with the highest buyer regrets. Owner trade-in or resale at as loss in the first 1-2 years more than any brand.
Most people acquiring $60k cars are not buying them, they are leasing. And if you can actually buy a $60k brand new car then your pockets are deep enough to not really care so much about repairs. Even so, I bet most of those buyers are out of them before the warranty (or extended warranty) is out. Point being the vast majority of people driving out of warranty German cars got them used and didn't pay near that much. Also if you check out BMW quality rates lately (2015+) they are average or better than average. Audi too. They are not what they used to be. And really one wonders how big a consideration that really is. Look how many people buy new Volvos, Jaguars, Fiats, etc. in spite of very well documented quality issues. Second is also check out Acura sedan quality (also 2015+). All three sedans are below average, or at the very least not what they used to be by far. My 06 TSX was bullet proof - 9 years, 120k miles and not a single issue. My 15 TLX failed backing out of my driveway 3 months after purchase. Being perfectly honest, if you have $60k and want long-term ownership reliability (8+ years) it's Lexus. I'd be willing to bet Genesis would be good long term too. |
Originally Posted by 04WDPSeDaN
(Post 16452665)
So, the new "TLX" looks nearly identical to the Genesis G70. The MDX still looks about the same with possible Air suspension. I know one thing for sure, Acura isn't going to "shake" up the competition. In fact, Acura is still LAST to the show. While the rest of the automotive industry has moved on to using force induction while Acura is still using decades old N/A engine design. Not til recently with the introduction of the RDX and NSX newest models. As for the ambient interior lighting, again, this has been a feature on many other vehicles but I guess for Acura "better later than never" seems to be the story with them. I have a feeling the new MDX will have air suspension judging on the height. The biggest issue Acura is going to have is, who is going to switch over to Acura and spend 60-90K for a performance sedan or SUV? Is it going to be on the same level as like the Competition? I doubt it. Why would anyone spend 60K on a TLX-S when at that price most buyers will lean towards owning a German vehicle. Acura has been out of touch with buyers since 2009. The 90's and early 2000's were the best for Acura since then it's been a shit show. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that a lot of people are going to be disappointment.
|
Originally Posted by 04WDPSeDaN
(Post 16452769)
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...e52959a8a9.jpg
The TLX design language is based of the precision concept that came out in 2016 so genesis did copy Acura in a way. In Production https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...91ccc4b0a4.jpg Not in Production The car the next gen TLX and MDX are based of not genesis, which don’t even have a dealer network to sell their cars. |
Originally Posted by cflekken
(Post 16452750)
You do realize that the G70 essentially took the exact profile of the TLX and used it, right? Do you not see the more-than-clear resemblance. So, you tell me who is "last to the show". And those who would spend $60K on a TLX Type S are the ones who would need to spend upwards of $70K for a comparably equipped M340i, C43 AMG, S4.
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