massive hesitation on acceleration after braking is driving me NUTS !!
11-03-2019, 09:46 PM
#241
Drifting
Ours was a 5th-gen, I think, but I might be wrong about the V6. Probably 2.2L I4 5MT. Wife's car.
I probably mashed up drivetrains with the V6 5AT Acura 3.2 TL that followed.
But both were fun cars. Except when it snowed. The TL reminded me that winter tires are a Good Thing if you actually deal with winter. And especially if you can't always wait for the snow plows to do their thing.
I probably mashed up drivetrains with the V6 5AT Acura 3.2 TL that followed.
But both were fun cars. Except when it snowed. The TL reminded me that winter tires are a Good Thing if you actually deal with winter. And especially if you can't always wait for the snow plows to do their thing.
11-03-2019, 09:53 PM
#242
Drifting
yes it is apple to orange comparison, but there is 16 year production difference between 2003 Accord that shifts smoothly and it is 5 speed auto, and I am supposed to just live with 2 seconds lag now somehow because the car is heavier and has different engine/transmission? I thought technology and engineering should improve and not lag behind, your logic is flawed its like saying that windows 10 can be slower comparing to DOS because it is not the same thing, ridiculous. 2 second lag after gas pedal push is unacceptable period.
I'm not excusing the lag that manifests under some conditions. It sucks. I'm just saying that comparing 0-60 acceleration times isn't a good argument.
11-03-2019, 10:19 PM
#243
Drifting
Mine was similar to yours before I had 19-022 TSB. The lag from standstill stop was purely turbo lag and nothing bad, but re-acceleration after slowing down to slow speed (e.g. <=20mph ) was horrible and unpredictable even with manual downshift, with both transmission downshift lag + turbo lag adding up to worst-case almost 2 seconds delay.
After the firmware update, the lag under re-acceleration scenario is greatly reduced and more importantly the lag is more predictable. I feel the transmission is more prepared to downshift either by giving more throttle, or by manually downshift. The worst case scenario rarely happens now, and when it does I feel the lag is closer to 1 second. I don't have datalog yet, so all of these are based on feel.
After the firmware update, the lag under re-acceleration scenario is greatly reduced and more importantly the lag is more predictable. I feel the transmission is more prepared to downshift either by giving more throttle, or by manually downshift. The worst case scenario rarely happens now, and when it does I feel the lag is closer to 1 second. I don't have datalog yet, so all of these are based on feel.
11-04-2019, 05:48 PM
#245
the weight difference has nothing to do with a problem as TSB applied apparently fixes the issue, A89 computer update if I am not mistaken, unless the update magically makes the car lighter... 1200 lbs for 275 hp engine is nothing, maybe 1 second difference 0-60 MPH however the lag at start is completely independent and needs to be fixed.
11-04-2019, 08:24 PM
#246
Suzuka Master
the weight difference has nothing to do with a problem as TSB applied apparently fixes the issue, A89 computer update if I am not mistaken, unless the update magically makes the car lighter... 1200 lbs for 275 hp engine is nothing, maybe 1 second difference 0-60 MPH however the lag at start is completely independent and needs to be fixed.
all these updates for 2019? mine is 2020, and there are no TSBs, I am guessing it already applied
11-05-2019, 01:26 AM
#247
Drifting
the weight difference has nothing to do with a problem as TSB applied apparently fixes the issue, A89 computer update if I am not mistaken, unless the update magically makes the car lighter... 1200 lbs for 275 hp engine is nothing, maybe 1 second difference 0-60 MPH however the lag at start is completely independent and needs to be fixed.
Let's see. F=ma, if I remember my high school physics. 1200 pounds is roughly 3/10 the total weight of the RDX. So by this argument RDX should accelerate 0-60 in about 3.3 seconds. Sweet.
But if it keeps accelerating to close to light speed, we will start to see relativistic effects. Would that help?
Back to our non-relativistic reference frame, there's nothing mentioned in any current TSB about any ECU update. TSB 19-022 calls for an update to a computerized brake controller. It's possible that in same cases techs have been applying other updates while they are at it, but unfortunately there is no consensus about the effect of the TSB 19-022 update on the acceleration lag ( if any ). I wish there were, cuz then I'd quantum tunnel to my dealer in an instant and tell them to apply the most recent version of that update.
But I think there is a growing consensus that sluggish acceleration under some conditions is a consequence of deliberate "torque management" implemented in the ECU firmware. The question is whether that has been subject to a "running change", and whether there exists an update path to bring early production vehicles to that revision level. The proprietary HDS system gives dealer techs access to damn near everything, but they may not be willing to randomly load firmware onto the vehicle unless there is a specified procedure. Bricking vehicles is bad.
Sadly, Acura isn't very forthcoming about "running changes" to production, including firmware revisions to the literally dozens of different embedded computers in their vehicles. But to be fair, neither are most car manufacturers.
Last edited by Wander; 11-05-2019 at 01:30 AM.
11-06-2019, 06:54 PM
#248
Oh boy, here we go again.
Let's see. F=ma, if I remember my high school physics. 1200 pounds is roughly 3/10 the total weight of the RDX. So by this argument RDX should accelerate 0-60 in about 3.3 seconds. Sweet.
But if it keeps accelerating to close to light speed, we will start to see relativistic effects. Would that help?
Back to our non-relativistic reference frame, there's nothing mentioned in any current TSB about any ECU update. TSB 19-022 calls for an update to a computerized brake controller. It's possible that in same cases techs have been applying other updates while they are at it, but unfortunately there is no consensus about the effect of the TSB 19-022 update on the acceleration lag ( if any ). I wish there were, cuz then I'd quantum tunnel to my dealer in an instant and tell them to apply the most recent version of that update.
But I think there is a growing consensus that sluggish acceleration under some conditions is a consequence of deliberate "torque management" implemented in the ECU firmware. The question is whether that has been subject to a "running change", and whether there exists an update path to bring early production vehicles to that revision level. The proprietary HDS system gives dealer techs access to damn near everything, but they may not be willing to randomly load firmware onto the vehicle unless there is a specified procedure. Bricking vehicles is bad.
Sadly, Acura isn't very forthcoming about "running changes" to production, including firmware revisions to the literally dozens of different embedded computers in their vehicles. But to be fair, neither are most car manufacturers.
Let's see. F=ma, if I remember my high school physics. 1200 pounds is roughly 3/10 the total weight of the RDX. So by this argument RDX should accelerate 0-60 in about 3.3 seconds. Sweet.
But if it keeps accelerating to close to light speed, we will start to see relativistic effects. Would that help?
Back to our non-relativistic reference frame, there's nothing mentioned in any current TSB about any ECU update. TSB 19-022 calls for an update to a computerized brake controller. It's possible that in same cases techs have been applying other updates while they are at it, but unfortunately there is no consensus about the effect of the TSB 19-022 update on the acceleration lag ( if any ). I wish there were, cuz then I'd quantum tunnel to my dealer in an instant and tell them to apply the most recent version of that update.
But I think there is a growing consensus that sluggish acceleration under some conditions is a consequence of deliberate "torque management" implemented in the ECU firmware. The question is whether that has been subject to a "running change", and whether there exists an update path to bring early production vehicles to that revision level. The proprietary HDS system gives dealer techs access to damn near everything, but they may not be willing to randomly load firmware onto the vehicle unless there is a specified procedure. Bricking vehicles is bad.
Sadly, Acura isn't very forthcoming about "running changes" to production, including firmware revisions to the literally dozens of different embedded computers in their vehicles. But to be fair, neither are most car manufacturers.
you need to learn your physics and math, F = ma in fact that's the only thing you got right. where you get the 3.3 seconds is beyond me. And for the record I stated that RDX and Accord V6 acceleration should be about 1 sec different, ABOUT being the key word, I didn't feel like doing the exact math just to pacify the idiots who are just looking to put others down. If you want to go into theory of relativity discussions, we can do so as well but I doubt you understand any of it,.
I do appreciate the rest of your reply, you know, the part right below you finished your condescending and demeaning language to make yourself look better, so I guess thanks for that
11-06-2019, 11:40 PM
#249
Drifting
you need to learn your physics and math, F = ma in fact that's the only thing you got right. where you get the 3.3 seconds is beyond me. And for the record I stated that RDX and Accord V6 acceleration should be about 1 sec different, ABOUT being the key word, I didn't feel like doing the exact math just to pacify the idiots who are just looking to put others down. If you want to go into theory of relativity discussions, we can do so as well but I doubt you understand any of it,.
I do appreciate the rest of your reply, you know, the part right below you finished your condescending and demeaning language to make yourself look better, so I guess thanks for that
I do appreciate the rest of your reply, you know, the part right below you finished your condescending and demeaning language to make yourself look better, so I guess thanks for that
However, the relationship between mass and acceleration is quite relevant, and perhaps it's unwise to throw around numbers without justification.
If it requires 1 second to accelerate 1200 pounds from rest to 60mph, it will require 3.3 seconds to accelerate 4000 pounds to 60 mph, given an equivalent force. 4000/1200 = 3.3 ( taking the liberty of truncating ). Which is about half the time it actually takes RDX to accelerate to 60 mph, and is really only relevant to the extent that 1200 pounds ( the difference in weight between RDX and the Accord originally cited as a reference ) is absolutely NOT "nothing" in the context of acceleration of a passenger vehicle.
To put it another way, a force sufficient to accelerate said Accord from rest to 60 mph in 6 seconds, would require almost 8.6 seconds to accelerate the RDX 0-60. ( 4000/2800 * 6 ). If you say that's "nothing" in the performance section of this forum, they will not be gentle.
( Note that time-to-distance calculations require a polynomial equation derived from integral calculus, but time-to-velocity is linear for a constant force and hence constant acceleration ).
( Of course we know the force and acceleration are not constant for an ICE/ geared transmission drivetrain, and that's what we were griping about in the first place! ).
In regard to condescension, "your logic is flawed its like saying that windows 10 can be slower comparing to DOS because it is not the same thing, ridiculous", "unless the update magically makes the car lighter", "you need to learn your physics and math", "idiots".
Perhaps, like myself, you simply have a sarcastic wit and enjoy a good technical debate, but don't act wounded after you threw the first punch. Peace.
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markm929 (11-07-2019)
11-07-2019, 09:05 PM
#250
I learned my physics and math quite some time ago, thank you, as was required for the advanced degrees I earned in related fields. It has been a long time since I studied the theory of special relativity in college physics, but if there's one thing we can agree upon, it's that it's not especially relevant to the current conversation.
However, the relationship between mass and acceleration is quite relevant, and perhaps it's unwise to throw around numbers without justification.
If it requires 1 second to accelerate 1200 pounds from rest to 60mph, it will require 3.3 seconds to accelerate 4000 pounds to 60 mph, given an equivalent force. 4000/1200 = 3.3 ( taking the liberty of truncating ). Which is about half the time it actually takes RDX to accelerate to 60 mph, and is really only relevant to the extent that 1200 pounds ( the difference in weight between RDX and the Accord originally cited as a reference ) is absolutely NOT "nothing" in the context of acceleration of a passenger vehicle.
To put it another way, a force sufficient to accelerate said Accord from rest to 60 mph in 6 seconds, would require almost 8.6 seconds to accelerate the RDX 0-60. ( 4000/2800 * 6 ). If you say that's "nothing" in the performance section of this forum, they will not be gentle.
( Note that time-to-distance calculations require a polynomial equation derived from integral calculus, but time-to-velocity is linear for a constant force and hence constant acceleration ).
( Of course we know the force and acceleration are not constant for an ICE/ geared transmission drivetrain, and that's what we were griping about in the first place! ).
In regard to condescension, "your logic is flawed its like saying that windows 10 can be slower comparing to DOS because it is not the same thing, ridiculous", "unless the update magically makes the car lighter", "you need to learn your physics and math", "idiots".
Perhaps, like myself, you simply have a sarcastic wit and enjoy a good technical debate, but don't act wounded after you threw the first punch. Peace.
However, the relationship between mass and acceleration is quite relevant, and perhaps it's unwise to throw around numbers without justification.
If it requires 1 second to accelerate 1200 pounds from rest to 60mph, it will require 3.3 seconds to accelerate 4000 pounds to 60 mph, given an equivalent force. 4000/1200 = 3.3 ( taking the liberty of truncating ). Which is about half the time it actually takes RDX to accelerate to 60 mph, and is really only relevant to the extent that 1200 pounds ( the difference in weight between RDX and the Accord originally cited as a reference ) is absolutely NOT "nothing" in the context of acceleration of a passenger vehicle.
To put it another way, a force sufficient to accelerate said Accord from rest to 60 mph in 6 seconds, would require almost 8.6 seconds to accelerate the RDX 0-60. ( 4000/2800 * 6 ). If you say that's "nothing" in the performance section of this forum, they will not be gentle.
( Note that time-to-distance calculations require a polynomial equation derived from integral calculus, but time-to-velocity is linear for a constant force and hence constant acceleration ).
( Of course we know the force and acceleration are not constant for an ICE/ geared transmission drivetrain, and that's what we were griping about in the first place! ).
In regard to condescension, "your logic is flawed its like saying that windows 10 can be slower comparing to DOS because it is not the same thing, ridiculous", "unless the update magically makes the car lighter", "you need to learn your physics and math", "idiots".
Perhaps, like myself, you simply have a sarcastic wit and enjoy a good technical debate, but don't act wounded after you threw the first punch. Peace.
Per Honda website the 2 cars that we compare have the following specifications:
2003 Accord V6 weight 3360lbs, HP = 278
2019 RDX Advanced, weight 4068, HP = 272
Weight difference between the 2 cars = 708 lbs, 500 less what you came up with, RDX being heavier of the 2 cars.
Now lets look at 0-60 MPH numbers, which Honda does not publish but plenty of other sources do, for example Motor Trend tested both vehicles and came up with 6.6 seconds for Accord, and 6.4 seconds for RDX, there your F=ma argument goes out the window, the heavier car has faster time. There are other sources that confirm the 0-60 numbers to within 0.1 seconds, all show that in fact RDX is faster comparing to Accord irrespective of the fact that it is a heavier vehicle. So, please, next time before you use your flawed logic to try to make yourself look brilliant and explain what the acceleration of the car should be strictly based on its weight, try to research some facts.
Although I agree that lighter cars are easier to accelerate, there is a lot more that goes into acceleration of a vehicle than it's weight, there is it's center of gravity, torque, coefficient of static friction, coefficient of dynamic friction, drag, linearity of acceleration with rpm, just to name a few parameters. If you would like me to do the math and explain all parameters and show why heavier RDX goes 0-60MPH faster than much lighter Accord V6, both with engines with comparable HP I would be happy to do so but I don't do the advanced classical physics calculations for free, I have better things to do with my time, but perhaps you can come up with the price and I am sure we can come to an agreement, if not, do the calculations yourself instead of trying to pretend how smart you are, prove it.
I don't dismiss or dispute your credentials, I don't know what you do and I am not interested to find out however I would be willing to bet that my credentials and education level are above yours as far as physics is concerned, if you care to make such bet I am in... if not, please don't try to prove how smart you are because you took some college physics.
And lastly to my original point, I was simply trying to say that if 2003 Accord V6 can accelerate smoothly without any hesitation from complete stop to 5 MPH, the expectation would be that a car built 15 years later with the new advancements in technology surely should be able to accomplish the same task. Hesitation from stand still position is not only annoying but also can be dangerous under the right circumstances.
and as a PS. my apologies if I offend you or demean you in any way, as you say we both have a good scientific wit and I don't stray from constructive discussion of the issue at hand, here goes another punch...
Last edited by mike232232; 11-07-2019 at 09:08 PM.
11-07-2019, 10:17 PM
#251
Drifting
OK, I think we have spilt enough extraneous verbiage for one topic. And I consider it a strong team effort.
About the hesitation, two words: computerized controls. We could model classical mechanics until the cows come home, but one damn "do loop" and we are undone.
This modern marvel of automotive engineering is juggling fuel economy, emissions, and performance in ways that were outside the envelope 15 years ago, but sadly I think a side-effect is occasional "unintended consequences".
Or at least I hope it's unintended, cuz I'd be pretty pissed if they are doing it to me on purpose!
My wife has wisely noted that if you want to get rid of that damn hesitation, you can twist the big shiny knob to "Sport+" and it mostly goes away. And she figured this out in the two or three times she has driven the car.
What can I say?
About the hesitation, two words: computerized controls. We could model classical mechanics until the cows come home, but one damn "do loop" and we are undone.
This modern marvel of automotive engineering is juggling fuel economy, emissions, and performance in ways that were outside the envelope 15 years ago, but sadly I think a side-effect is occasional "unintended consequences".
Or at least I hope it's unintended, cuz I'd be pretty pissed if they are doing it to me on purpose!
My wife has wisely noted that if you want to get rid of that damn hesitation, you can twist the big shiny knob to "Sport+" and it mostly goes away. And she figured this out in the two or three times she has driven the car.
What can I say?
11-07-2019, 10:35 PM
#252
Drifting
RE: Is it on purpose?
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Funz51 (11-08-2019)
11-08-2019, 06:06 PM
#253
OK, I think we have spilt enough extraneous verbiage for one topic. And I consider it a strong team effort.
About the hesitation, two words: computerized controls. We could model classical mechanics until the cows come home, but one damn "do loop" and we are undone.
This modern marvel of automotive engineering is juggling fuel economy, emissions, and performance in ways that were outside the envelope 15 years ago, but sadly I think a side-effect is occasional "unintended consequences".
Or at least I hope it's unintended, cuz I'd be pretty pissed if they are doing it to me on purpose!
My wife has wisely noted that if you want to get rid of that damn hesitation, you can twist the big shiny knob to "Sport+" and it mostly goes away. And she figured this out in the two or three times she has driven the car.
What can I say?
About the hesitation, two words: computerized controls. We could model classical mechanics until the cows come home, but one damn "do loop" and we are undone.
This modern marvel of automotive engineering is juggling fuel economy, emissions, and performance in ways that were outside the envelope 15 years ago, but sadly I think a side-effect is occasional "unintended consequences".
Or at least I hope it's unintended, cuz I'd be pretty pissed if they are doing it to me on purpose!
My wife has wisely noted that if you want to get rid of that damn hesitation, you can twist the big shiny knob to "Sport+" and it mostly goes away. And she figured this out in the two or three times she has driven the car.
What can I say?
Other manufacturers have the same fuel economy requirements as RDX and for example Volvo XC60 T6 has not lag whatsoever, even simple CRV has zero lag, but they do exhibit the oil gas dilution issue which may or may not turn out to be a serious flaw in that engine design in the long term.
My question still stands, why Acura can't just apply the computer update to all acuras RDX if in fact the update fixes the hesitation issue. There is no reason why any of RDX owners should put up with side effects of the design flaws that surely seem to exist. At least it looks like infotainment issues are finally getting resolved after the new update....
11-10-2019, 12:52 PM
#254
2nd Gear
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I'm seriously considering trying to sell my lease as I'm so frustrated with the performance. When trying to accelerate after braking the vehicle has a MASSIVE hesitation where it just sits there doing nothing literally for a solid second or 2. Not only being very frustrating it's IMO very dangerous. If I'm at a yield and then need to merge quickly, if I'm getting on a highway from a parking lot, if I'm trying to switch lanes in traffic, etc etc the vehicle just bogs down and does nothing for that 1-2 seconds. I've never in my entire life had a vehicle which did this. I live in NJ so pretty much every driving move I make involves some form of braking and then accelerating due to the traffic here. I think yesterday was my breaking point as I was in traffic and braking and saw an opportunity to change lanes, I had open road and the vehicle in that lane was at least 10 car lengths away but was accelerating fairly fast. Normally it would be an easy, safe and legal maneuver, but having the vehicle bog down for 1-2 seconds while switching lanes made it quite dangerous and probably made me look like an Ahole.
My first thought was something was faulty. I took it to the dealer and had them test drive it and they said it was normal. I got into a long conversation with the service manager who said it wasn't turbo lag, but rather the way the transmission was designed. He also said that running regular grade gas would make it worse, which just tanked his credibility. I did experiment with regular versus premium and noticed zero difference. I only had the vehicle a couple of months so just accepted what he said, but now about 6 months in I just completely hate this vehicle because of the hesitation. On my next service appointment I'm going to make sure a tech rides along with me and see if they think this is indeed normal.
Anyone else seeing this? Drive the vehicle normally, apply the brakes and then right away take your foot off the brake and accelerate. You don't have to mash the accelerator, even with light to moderate pressure you will notice that lag where the vehicle is just sitting there with zero power. If you do accelerate moderately or hard after a second or 2 of doing nothing it will just completely jerk into motion. Does the same thing in all modes, it's actually worse in Sport and Sport+ mode because you get more power after the hesitation.
My first thought was something was faulty. I took it to the dealer and had them test drive it and they said it was normal. I got into a long conversation with the service manager who said it wasn't turbo lag, but rather the way the transmission was designed. He also said that running regular grade gas would make it worse, which just tanked his credibility. I did experiment with regular versus premium and noticed zero difference. I only had the vehicle a couple of months so just accepted what he said, but now about 6 months in I just completely hate this vehicle because of the hesitation. On my next service appointment I'm going to make sure a tech rides along with me and see if they think this is indeed normal.
Anyone else seeing this? Drive the vehicle normally, apply the brakes and then right away take your foot off the brake and accelerate. You don't have to mash the accelerator, even with light to moderate pressure you will notice that lag where the vehicle is just sitting there with zero power. If you do accelerate moderately or hard after a second or 2 of doing nothing it will just completely jerk into motion. Does the same thing in all modes, it's actually worse in Sport and Sport+ mode because you get more power after the hesitation.
11-11-2019, 05:01 PM
#255
OK, I think we have spilt enough extraneous verbiage for one topic. And I consider it a strong team effort.
About the hesitation, two words: computerized controls. We could model classical mechanics until the cows come home, but one damn "do loop" and we are undone.
This modern marvel of automotive engineering is juggling fuel economy, emissions, and performance in ways that were outside the envelope 15 years ago, but sadly I think a side-effect is occasional "unintended consequences".
Or at least I hope it's unintended, cuz I'd be pretty pissed if they are doing it to me on purpose!
My wife has wisely noted that if you want to get rid of that damn hesitation, you can twist the big shiny knob to "Sport+" and it mostly goes away. And she figured this out in the two or three times she has driven the car.
What can I say?
About the hesitation, two words: computerized controls. We could model classical mechanics until the cows come home, but one damn "do loop" and we are undone.
This modern marvel of automotive engineering is juggling fuel economy, emissions, and performance in ways that were outside the envelope 15 years ago, but sadly I think a side-effect is occasional "unintended consequences".
Or at least I hope it's unintended, cuz I'd be pretty pissed if they are doing it to me on purpose!
My wife has wisely noted that if you want to get rid of that damn hesitation, you can twist the big shiny knob to "Sport+" and it mostly goes away. And she figured this out in the two or three times she has driven the car.
What can I say?
11-11-2019, 05:31 PM
#256
Gearhead
Sport+ plus has not gotten rid the initial (off the line) hesitation of the 5 different RDXs I've driven. Even the tuned one it is still there. The only difference is tuned it accelerates even more hardly once it is on the boil so to speak.
I have a rental base Jetta at the moment. It wimpy little motor will easily smoke my RDX off the line. I have my Dragy with me so will run some test to quantify how much quicker it is for the 0-5mph and on sprint. It literally leaps off the line like the RDX does once it finally hits 5 mph but the Jetta is pulling like that at 0 mph. No tranny nanny there..
I have a rental base Jetta at the moment. It wimpy little motor will easily smoke my RDX off the line. I have my Dragy with me so will run some test to quantify how much quicker it is for the 0-5mph and on sprint. It literally leaps off the line like the RDX does once it finally hits 5 mph but the Jetta is pulling like that at 0 mph. No tranny nanny there..
11-11-2019, 05:39 PM
#257
Three Wheelin'
The weird part, though, is that this is not discussed in any of the professional reviews.
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spinedoc777 (12-13-2019)
11-11-2019, 05:46 PM
#258
Sport+ plus has not gotten rid the initial (off the line) hesitation of the 5 different RDXs I've driven. Even the tuned one it is still there. The only difference is tuned it accelerates even more hardly once it is on the boil so to speak.
I have a rental base Jetta at the moment. It wimpy little motor will easily smoke my RDX off the line. I have my Dragy with me so will run some test to quantify how much quicker it is for the 0-5mph and on sprint. It literally leaps off the line like the RDX does once it finally hits 5 mph but the Jetta is pulling like that at 0 mph. No tranny nanny there..
I have a rental base Jetta at the moment. It wimpy little motor will easily smoke my RDX off the line. I have my Dragy with me so will run some test to quantify how much quicker it is for the 0-5mph and on sprint. It literally leaps off the line like the RDX does once it finally hits 5 mph but the Jetta is pulling like that at 0 mph. No tranny nanny there..
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spinedoc777 (12-13-2019)
11-11-2019, 05:55 PM
#259
Expanse me
thank you for reiterating my point, my 2003 Accord V6 does not have any hesitation, neither does any other non luxury car I've driven over the years. Why should hesitation off the stand-still be acceptable to anyone in 2019 Luxury RDX which costs 50K? This should be addressed and the car should be tuned to be enjoyable at any range, in fact in my opinion off the complete stop the pickup is most critical as the expectation is when the gas is pressed the car will take off, 1 seconds hesitation could lead to crash if one is not careful and it correlated to quite a few feet when merging onto the incoming traffic...
The throttle is delayed when accelerating from a standstill up to 10 mph, but can also happen at higher speeds. This appears to be dependent on the rpm. This occurs in Comfort and Sport modes. The delay is one to two seconds. This delay is CRITICAL when say, taking a turn crossing traffic. Yes, there are many customers with the same problem. I see this as a safety issue, just as bad as, for example, brakes not actually being applied for 1 or two seconds after being physically applied, or maybe the clutch being delayed in a manual transmission by two seconds. This would NEVER be acceptable in the marketplace, but yet somehow an automatic transmission is OK to be delayed.
We RDX owners have received a software update in February. I feel this is unacceptable. Another is due. It appears the vehicle was not ready for production 2 years ago, and has yet to see critical problems fixed.
I have been to the dealer where they did a clutch procedure and passed on results back to you.
This procedure did not fix the issue, and I have passed this onto the dealer.
I would like to speak to you about returning the vehicle. It is in great shape, just over 3000 miles, waxed and ready. I thought I was buying Acura/Honda reliability and high standards. You are showing me that you do not have high standards. Please resolve these issues as soon as you can.
By the way, I love the vehicle, all except for the myriad of issues.
11-11-2019, 06:18 PM
#260
You can't harass just Acura,. Alpha Romeo and Audi have the same complaints. All you need to do is peruse their forums a bit. There may be more manufactures. It is a common issue that needs to be resolved. I wrote this email to Acura and any executives that would listen 4 months ago.
The throttle is delayed when accelerating from a standstill up to 10 mph, but can also happen at higher speeds. This appears to be dependent on the rpm. This occurs in Comfort and Sport modes. The delay is one to two seconds. This delay is CRITICAL when say, taking a turn crossing traffic. Yes, there are many customers with the same problem. I see this as a safety issue, just as bad as, for example, brakes not actually being applied for 1 or two seconds after being physically applied, or maybe the clutch being delayed in a manual transmission by two seconds. This would NEVER be acceptable in the marketplace, but yet somehow an automatic transmission is OK to be delayed.
We RDX owners have received a software update in February. I feel this is unacceptable. Another is due. It appears the vehicle was not ready for production 2 years ago, and has yet to see critical problems fixed.
I have been to the dealer where they did a clutch procedure and passed on results back to you.
This procedure did not fix the issue, and I have passed this onto the dealer.
I would like to speak to you about returning the vehicle. It is in great shape, just over 3000 miles, waxed and ready. I thought I was buying Acura/Honda reliability and high standards. You are showing me that you do not have high standards. Please resolve these issues as soon as you can.
By the way, I love the vehicle, all except for the myriad of issues.
The throttle is delayed when accelerating from a standstill up to 10 mph, but can also happen at higher speeds. This appears to be dependent on the rpm. This occurs in Comfort and Sport modes. The delay is one to two seconds. This delay is CRITICAL when say, taking a turn crossing traffic. Yes, there are many customers with the same problem. I see this as a safety issue, just as bad as, for example, brakes not actually being applied for 1 or two seconds after being physically applied, or maybe the clutch being delayed in a manual transmission by two seconds. This would NEVER be acceptable in the marketplace, but yet somehow an automatic transmission is OK to be delayed.
We RDX owners have received a software update in February. I feel this is unacceptable. Another is due. It appears the vehicle was not ready for production 2 years ago, and has yet to see critical problems fixed.
I have been to the dealer where they did a clutch procedure and passed on results back to you.
This procedure did not fix the issue, and I have passed this onto the dealer.
I would like to speak to you about returning the vehicle. It is in great shape, just over 3000 miles, waxed and ready. I thought I was buying Acura/Honda reliability and high standards. You are showing me that you do not have high standards. Please resolve these issues as soon as you can.
By the way, I love the vehicle, all except for the myriad of issues.
So far my issues are:
1. hesitation when accelerated from 0-5MPH, Acura claims this is normal, are you kidding me Acura?
2. The Panoramic Moonroof developped a water leak the 1st rain after I picked the car up from dealership, the dealer acknowledged the problem and replaced the entire sunroof twice, once they replaced it, tested it and said the parts were defective, they contacted tech support and new parts were shipped from another supplier, this time they claim the problem is resolved, we will see when it rains.
3. The seal on the tailgate had a large gap on the bottom, they claimed this was normal, I went to their lot and inspected 10 RDXs took pictures of all, 8 had good seal with no gaps, and the other 2 had gaps like mine, I showed them the photos, they reluctantly replaced the seal, no gap now as it should be.
4. Big bang when going over the curb noise, as others on the forum stated, dealer claims they test drove the car and can't reproduce, intermittent for me.
5. Clicking sound somewhere from the back area, haven't been able to pinpoint from where, dealer states they can't hear anything, tic tic tic, driving away I go with the noise there, will try to investigate myself.
All the infotainment issues are present in mine just like the other users here but last software update seemed to resolve most.
Now, god forbid, I harass Acura, just cut them a break, after all they build these things in USA...
11-11-2019, 06:22 PM
#261
Three Wheelin'
3. The seal on the tailgate had a large gap on the bottom, they claimed this was normal, I went to their lot and inspected 10 RDXs took pictures of all, 8 had good seal with no gaps, and the other 2 had gaps like mine, I showed them the photos, they reluctantly replaced the seal, no gap now as it should be.
11-11-2019, 06:24 PM
#262
someone else posted a picture on the forum (I don't remember the thread), that's what made me take a look at mine, looked the same, don't let the dealer tell you it is normal, after replacement the joint is smooth and overlapping, no gaps of any kind.
11-11-2019, 07:15 PM
#263
There is tackyness / adhesive residue on the rubber stoppers for the hinged lids on the floor over the spare area. As the vehicle vibrates from road undulations the stoppers adhere to and then release the lid repeatedly. Tic tic tic. Try opening all the lids and drive for a while. The noise should stop if it is the same as mine.
11-11-2019, 09:43 PM
#265
Oh by the way first the dealer said they will just adjust the existing weather strip, but called and said that adjustment was impossible and had to order the new one which was longer... again they had to call tech support for approval... like I care who they had to call, but at least they communicated something to me, I hope this information helps you... now back to the hesitation issue
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anoop (11-11-2019)
11-11-2019, 09:47 PM
#266
There is tackyness / adhesive residue on the rubber stoppers for the hinged lids on the floor over the spare area. As the vehicle vibrates from road undulations the stoppers adhere to and then release the lid repeatedly. Tic tic tic. Try opening all the lids and drive for a while. The noise should stop if it is the same as mine.
I can't believe how bitter I am getting about this car, and I bought it cash, should have leased it and unloaded after 3 years.... hindsight in 20/20
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JacPac (12-14-2019)
11-12-2019, 12:47 AM
#267
Drifting
Harass the Acura? Are you kidding me? I spend 50K of my hard earned cash on this car and somehow I am supposed to forgive Acura for the issue because other manufacturers exhibit the same problem? I don't care about other manufacturers, i didn't give them my trust for reliability and money. You state in your own post that your car has "myriad of issues" yet you enjoy it? I doubt it, I believe any time issue pops up you are just as mad as the rest of this community, and we sure as hell all have rights to harass Acura and expect the company to stand by their products.
So far my issues are:
1. hesitation when accelerated from 0-5MPH, Acura claims this is normal, are you kidding me Acura?
2. The Panoramic Moonroof developped a water leak the 1st rain after I picked the car up from dealership, the dealer acknowledged the problem and replaced the entire sunroof twice, once they replaced it, tested it and said the parts were defective, they contacted tech support and new parts were shipped from another supplier, this time they claim the problem is resolved, we will see when it rains.
3. The seal on the tailgate had a large gap on the bottom, they claimed this was normal, I went to their lot and inspected 10 RDXs took pictures of all, 8 had good seal with no gaps, and the other 2 had gaps like mine, I showed them the photos, they reluctantly replaced the seal, no gap now as it should be.
4. Big bang when going over the curb noise, as others on the forum stated, dealer claims they test drove the car and can't reproduce, intermittent for me.
5. Clicking sound somewhere from the back area, haven't been able to pinpoint from where, dealer states they can't hear anything, tic tic tic, driving away I go with the noise there, will try to investigate myself.
All the infotainment issues are present in mine just like the other users here but last software update seemed to resolve most.
Now, god forbid, I harass Acura, just cut them a break, after all they build these things in USA...
So far my issues are:
1. hesitation when accelerated from 0-5MPH, Acura claims this is normal, are you kidding me Acura?
2. The Panoramic Moonroof developped a water leak the 1st rain after I picked the car up from dealership, the dealer acknowledged the problem and replaced the entire sunroof twice, once they replaced it, tested it and said the parts were defective, they contacted tech support and new parts were shipped from another supplier, this time they claim the problem is resolved, we will see when it rains.
3. The seal on the tailgate had a large gap on the bottom, they claimed this was normal, I went to their lot and inspected 10 RDXs took pictures of all, 8 had good seal with no gaps, and the other 2 had gaps like mine, I showed them the photos, they reluctantly replaced the seal, no gap now as it should be.
4. Big bang when going over the curb noise, as others on the forum stated, dealer claims they test drove the car and can't reproduce, intermittent for me.
5. Clicking sound somewhere from the back area, haven't been able to pinpoint from where, dealer states they can't hear anything, tic tic tic, driving away I go with the noise there, will try to investigate myself.
All the infotainment issues are present in mine just like the other users here but last software update seemed to resolve most.
Now, god forbid, I harass Acura, just cut them a break, after all they build these things in USA...
I've heard of dealers charging an hour's labor "diagnostic fee" to snug up a spare...
But if you've already had problems with the panoramic moonroof, that may be a prime suspect for #5, or #4 or both, sadly. Maybe that big hole in the roof isn't such a great idea after all?
I didn't mean to trivialize the acceleration lag issue, and I'm sorry if I came off that way. For the record, mine does it, I don't like it, and I really don't like it when it does it to me when I'm pulling out into traffic. I've pretty much learned to anticipate it, but it still doesn't feel so good when an 18-wheeler or dump truck is barreling toward me, aimed right at my door.
This is my first turbocharged vehicle, so I'm not sure how much of it should be attributed to turbo lag. But this is not my first vehicle with a high-gear count transmission, and the previous one ( ZF 9-speed in a 2016 Pilot Touring ) was even more pathological than this one, but in different ways. And supposedly that one got somewhat fixed after a few years with software changes for new vehicles, but I'm not sure those changes were retroactive to previous model years. So it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling when guys with 2020 RDXs say "got no problems here". Dunno.
But I think there is an argument to be made that manufacturers are bumping up against what is possible in terms of improving efficiency while simultaneously satisfying our perverse desire to have heavy SUVs that perform like sports cars. Something's gotta give, and I think sometimes that something is drive-ability.
11-12-2019, 01:00 AM
#268
If your vehicle has a spare tire, turn the crank and get it really snug. It might cure #4 and #5. Or at least #4. I've been burned by this more than once, in multiple vehicles with suspended spares. And check that the jack and such in the cubby are stored securely.
I've heard of dealers charging an hour's labor "diagnostic fee" to snug up a spare...
But if you've already had problems with the panoramic moonroof, that may be a prime suspect for #5, or #4 or both, sadly. Maybe that big hole in the roof isn't such a great idea after all?
I didn't mean to trivialize the acceleration lag issue, and I'm sorry if I came off that way. For the record, mine does it, I don't like it, and I really don't like it when it does it to me when I'm pulling out into traffic. I've pretty much learned to anticipate it, but it still doesn't feel so good when an 18-wheeler or dump truck is barreling toward me, aimed right at my door.
This is my first turbocharged vehicle, so I'm not sure how much of it should be attributed to turbo lag. But this is not my first vehicle with a high-gear count transmission, and the previous one ( ZF 9-speed in a 2016 Pilot Touring ) was even more pathological than this one, but in different ways. And supposedly that one got somewhat fixed after a few years with software changes for new vehicles, but I'm not sure those changes were retroactive to previous model years. So it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling when guys with 2020 RDXs say "got no problems here". Dunno.
But I think there is an argument to be made that manufacturers are bumping up against what is possible in terms of improving efficiency while simultaneously satisfying our perverse desire to have heavy SUVs that perform like sports cars. Something's gotta give, and I think sometimes that something is drive-ability.
I've heard of dealers charging an hour's labor "diagnostic fee" to snug up a spare...
But if you've already had problems with the panoramic moonroof, that may be a prime suspect for #5, or #4 or both, sadly. Maybe that big hole in the roof isn't such a great idea after all?
I didn't mean to trivialize the acceleration lag issue, and I'm sorry if I came off that way. For the record, mine does it, I don't like it, and I really don't like it when it does it to me when I'm pulling out into traffic. I've pretty much learned to anticipate it, but it still doesn't feel so good when an 18-wheeler or dump truck is barreling toward me, aimed right at my door.
This is my first turbocharged vehicle, so I'm not sure how much of it should be attributed to turbo lag. But this is not my first vehicle with a high-gear count transmission, and the previous one ( ZF 9-speed in a 2016 Pilot Touring ) was even more pathological than this one, but in different ways. And supposedly that one got somewhat fixed after a few years with software changes for new vehicles, but I'm not sure those changes were retroactive to previous model years. So it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling when guys with 2020 RDXs say "got no problems here". Dunno.
But I think there is an argument to be made that manufacturers are bumping up against what is possible in terms of improving efficiency while simultaneously satisfying our perverse desire to have heavy SUVs that perform like sports cars. Something's gotta give, and I think sometimes that something is drive-ability.
And if 2020 does not exhibit the lag then why on earth wouldn't Acura fix it in 2019, it is in my opinion software tuning issue and not turbo lag... so should be relatively easy to fix...
11-12-2019, 01:25 AM
#269
Drifting
Totally agree that electrification is the way forward, both for smoothness and efficiency. But infrastructure is a huge problem for full electric and current hybrid tech is underwhelming and/or ludicrously expensive for mid-size SUVs.
11-12-2019, 07:50 AM
#270
If your vehicle has a spare tire, turn the crank and get it really snug. It might cure #4 and #5. Or at least #4. I've been burned by this more than once, in multiple vehicles with suspended spares. And check that the jack and such in the cubby are stored securely.
I've heard of dealers charging an hour's labor "diagnostic fee" to snug up a spare...
But if you've already had problems with the panoramic moonroof, that may be a prime suspect for #5, or #4 or both, sadly. Maybe that big hole in the roof isn't such a great idea after all?
I didn't mean to trivialize the acceleration lag issue, and I'm sorry if I came off that way. For the record, mine does it, I don't like it, and I really don't like it when it does it to me when I'm pulling out into traffic. I've pretty much learned to anticipate it, but it still doesn't feel so good when an 18-wheeler or dump truck is barreling toward me, aimed right at my door.
This is my first turbocharged vehicle, so I'm not sure how much of it should be attributed to turbo lag. But this is not my first vehicle with a high-gear count transmission, and the previous one ( ZF 9-speed in a 2016 Pilot Touring ) was even more pathological than this one, but in different ways. And supposedly that one got somewhat fixed after a few years with software changes for new vehicles, but I'm not sure those changes were retroactive to previous model years. So it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling when guys with 2020 RDXs say "got no problems here". Dunno.
But I think there is an argument to be made that manufacturers are bumping up against what is possible in terms of improving efficiency while simultaneously satisfying our perverse desire to have heavy SUVs that perform like sports cars. Something's gotta give, and I think sometimes that something is drive-ability.
I've heard of dealers charging an hour's labor "diagnostic fee" to snug up a spare...
But if you've already had problems with the panoramic moonroof, that may be a prime suspect for #5, or #4 or both, sadly. Maybe that big hole in the roof isn't such a great idea after all?
I didn't mean to trivialize the acceleration lag issue, and I'm sorry if I came off that way. For the record, mine does it, I don't like it, and I really don't like it when it does it to me when I'm pulling out into traffic. I've pretty much learned to anticipate it, but it still doesn't feel so good when an 18-wheeler or dump truck is barreling toward me, aimed right at my door.
This is my first turbocharged vehicle, so I'm not sure how much of it should be attributed to turbo lag. But this is not my first vehicle with a high-gear count transmission, and the previous one ( ZF 9-speed in a 2016 Pilot Touring ) was even more pathological than this one, but in different ways. And supposedly that one got somewhat fixed after a few years with software changes for new vehicles, but I'm not sure those changes were retroactive to previous model years. So it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling when guys with 2020 RDXs say "got no problems here". Dunno.
But I think there is an argument to be made that manufacturers are bumping up against what is possible in terms of improving efficiency while simultaneously satisfying our perverse desire to have heavy SUVs that perform like sports cars. Something's gotta give, and I think sometimes that something is drive-ability.
They don't like the R word ( Recall ). And calling it a "customer satisfaction update" doesn't really fool anyone.
Totally agree that electrification is the way forward, both for smoothness and efficiency. But infrastructure is a huge problem for full electric and current hybrid tech is underwhelming and/or ludicrously expensive for mid-size SUVs.
Totally agree that electrification is the way forward, both for smoothness and efficiency. But infrastructure is a huge problem for full electric and current hybrid tech is underwhelming and/or ludicrously expensive for mid-size SUVs.
11-12-2019, 08:12 AM
#271
Harass the Acura? Are you kidding me? I spend 50K of my hard earned cash on this car and somehow I am supposed to forgive Acura for the issue because other manufacturers exhibit the same problem? I don't care about other manufacturers, i didn't give them my trust for reliability and money. You state in your own post that your car has "myriad of issues" yet you enjoy it? I doubt it, I believe any time issue pops up you are just as mad as the rest of this community, and we sure as hell all have rights to harass Acura and expect the company to stand by their products.
So far my issues are:
1. hesitation when accelerated from 0-5MPH, Acura claims this is normal, are you kidding me Acura?
2. The Panoramic Moonroof developped a water leak the 1st rain after I picked the car up from dealership, the dealer acknowledged the problem and replaced the entire sunroof twice, once they replaced it, tested it and said the parts were defective, they contacted tech support and new parts were shipped from another supplier, this time they claim the problem is resolved, we will see when it rains.
3. The seal on the tailgate had a large gap on the bottom, they claimed this was normal, I went to their lot and inspected 10 RDXs took pictures of all, 8 had good seal with no gaps, and the other 2 had gaps like mine, I showed them the photos, they reluctantly replaced the seal, no gap now as it should be.
4. Big bang when going over the curb noise, as others on the forum stated, dealer claims they test drove the car and can't reproduce, intermittent for me.
5. Clicking sound somewhere from the back area, haven't been able to pinpoint from where, dealer states they can't hear anything, tic tic tic, driving away I go with the noise there, will try to investigate myself.
All the infotainment issues are present in mine just like the other users here but last software update seemed to resolve most.
Now, god forbid, I harass Acura, just cut them a break, after all they build these things in USA...
So far my issues are:
1. hesitation when accelerated from 0-5MPH, Acura claims this is normal, are you kidding me Acura?
2. The Panoramic Moonroof developped a water leak the 1st rain after I picked the car up from dealership, the dealer acknowledged the problem and replaced the entire sunroof twice, once they replaced it, tested it and said the parts were defective, they contacted tech support and new parts were shipped from another supplier, this time they claim the problem is resolved, we will see when it rains.
3. The seal on the tailgate had a large gap on the bottom, they claimed this was normal, I went to their lot and inspected 10 RDXs took pictures of all, 8 had good seal with no gaps, and the other 2 had gaps like mine, I showed them the photos, they reluctantly replaced the seal, no gap now as it should be.
4. Big bang when going over the curb noise, as others on the forum stated, dealer claims they test drove the car and can't reproduce, intermittent for me.
5. Clicking sound somewhere from the back area, haven't been able to pinpoint from where, dealer states they can't hear anything, tic tic tic, driving away I go with the noise there, will try to investigate myself.
All the infotainment issues are present in mine just like the other users here but last software update seemed to resolve most.
Now, god forbid, I harass Acura, just cut them a break, after all they build these things in USA...
If your dealership is incompetent, call Acura customer relationship. As I said before, corporate is pretty good at assisting customers when there are valid reasons. Dealership bonus is attached to customer satisfaction, so service department will get schooled by their boss if corporate steps in.
Last edited by sonyfever; 11-12-2019 at 08:16 AM.
11-12-2019, 08:22 AM
#272
My experience is different. I always use premium, but I found my car prefer Chevron/Mobile1 more than Shell. When using Shell, the delay is a bit more, the engine is not as smooth the moment throttle is let off. I don't know why, but that is just what I feel, and the observations are the same before and after my car had the TSB update.
I really like the car right now, that even though I have FlashPro sitting around I dare not flash the ECU, afraid I would lose the current software version!
I really like the car right now, that even though I have FlashPro sitting around I dare not flash the ECU, afraid I would lose the current software version!
11-14-2019, 06:11 PM
#274
It is a product feature: "In business, a product feature is one of the distinguishing characteristics of a product or service that helps boost its appeal to potential buyers, and might be used to formulate a product marketing strategy that highlights the usefulness of the product to targeted potential consumers." Aha!
11-14-2019, 10:09 PM
#275
Drifting
Service manager:
"I consulted with the Acura chief engineer, and that's a design feature to allow water to drain from the hatch.
Don't mess with it or you'll flood the vehicle, and warranty won't cover it."
"I consulted with the Acura chief engineer, and that's a design feature to allow water to drain from the hatch.
Don't mess with it or you'll flood the vehicle, and warranty won't cover it."
11-27-2019, 12:34 AM
#276
3rd Gear
Join Date: Nov 2019
Age: 86
Posts: 3
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hesitation during start from standstill
I had this problem. My wife didn't. Service Dept couldn't replicate it. What was different? I determined that my habit of braking with my left foot was the cause. I stopped doing it and the problem disappeared. Evidently the computer gets confused on whether you want to stop or go. It takes a couple of seconds to figure it out or alternatively, a continuing pressing until you finally lurch forward. Upon reflection, I had the same problem with our Smart Car. I sold it because of the problem which was dangerous. What do the cars have in common? Both have an automatic transmission with hill holder feature and a left-footed braker.
I have a Lexus LX. I don't have this problem. It does not have the hill-holder feature.
Every case is different, but if this works for you, it is a simple fix!
I have a Lexus LX. I don't have this problem. It does not have the hill-holder feature.
Every case is different, but if this works for you, it is a simple fix!
11-28-2019, 06:45 AM
#277
It has nothing to do with which foot you use. I only use my right and the hesitation has almost caused several accidents pulling into a highway or across traffic. That 1-2 seconds delay when cars are coming 60 mph is dangerous.
11-28-2019, 10:06 AM
#278
Instructor
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Stormy21 (03-07-2020)
11-28-2019, 11:11 AM
#279
3rd Gear
Join Date: Nov 2019
Age: 86
Posts: 3
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Hesitation
The only suggestion I have is since my problem occurs ONLY on my cars that have the hill-holder feature, that feature is somehow sending a signal that the hill holder is active and not to accelerate until your depressing the accelerator more, takes precedence. Good luck on finding your problem.
11-28-2019, 12:52 PM
#280
Drifting
Well, this is interesting, because the intersection that causes me the most trouble has a steep downgrade at a T intersection with a busy two-lane highway.
There is a stop sign for an at-grade train track crossing, then immediately a steep incline down to the highway and another stop sign about 100 feet from the first. There is a relatively unobstructed view for a half mile or so in either direction on the highway, but often lots of traffic including trucks. It is a designated truck route. This US highway has been trying to kill me at one place or another along its route since I was a teenager. It is persistent.
I'm always hard on the brakes approaching the intersection, because of the incline, and the hesitation is the worst if I accelerate onto the highway without coming to a complete stop at the second stop sign. But it still hesitates even if I'm not rolling at all.
I do not have any brake hold feature active, that I'm aware of, and I never left foot brake. Dunno.
There is a stop sign for an at-grade train track crossing, then immediately a steep incline down to the highway and another stop sign about 100 feet from the first. There is a relatively unobstructed view for a half mile or so in either direction on the highway, but often lots of traffic including trucks. It is a designated truck route. This US highway has been trying to kill me at one place or another along its route since I was a teenager. It is persistent.
I'm always hard on the brakes approaching the intersection, because of the incline, and the hesitation is the worst if I accelerate onto the highway without coming to a complete stop at the second stop sign. But it still hesitates even if I'm not rolling at all.
I do not have any brake hold feature active, that I'm aware of, and I never left foot brake. Dunno.