10 Speed Transmission=Turn off.
#41
Drifting
I have a late 15 build TLX V6 AWD and the ZF9 is junk. I have never seen a tranny have so many inconsistent irregular shifts. I am outside any VIN ranges that they would replace it and have the ECU updates. It has me weary enough that I am hesitating on getting a 19 ASPEC AWD because I am not sure I want to deal with this ZF9 any more.
#42
With this logic you will have to wait 3 years to know for sure there are no long term issues, and by that time acura will make 12speed or something. I was the one who got first generation of 5sp, and my 2001CL broke down after warranty, they took care of me. When there is a known issue, Honda usually extends warranty and is being very flexible in covering it after warranty.
honda accord had it for 1 year, has anyone complained? One year is good enough for me
electronics issues can usually be fixed with firmware updates
At the end of the day, whoever wants to take the risk or feels satisfied that these systems have been tested enough then please feel free to work out the kinks for everyone else. And there will be kinks. There always is. Firmware updates don’t always fix electronic issues. One year is good enough for you, and that’s awesome, but I would prefer to wait longer personally. Nothing really “wrong” with either choice here. Perhaps the irony is that both my RDX and MDX were first year models (but I bought them after they were both out for a while).
#43
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These types of conversations make me long for the days when manual transmissions were more widely available.
#44
There are four lights!
I think he's talking about a 2019 TLX A-Spec SH-AWD. It's too bad Acura didn't put the 10AT into the MMC TLX.
#45
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Neither of which are necessarily true today, although I was the only man in my family who drove MTs. The other MT drivers, my wife and daughter, were (and remain, today) women.
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#47
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MTs were more widely available when they were actually better than ATs. And when men were men.
Neither of which are necessarily true today, although I was the only man in my family who drove MTs. The other MT drivers, my wife and daughter, were (and remain, today) women.
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Better is of course a relative term; yes, in the lab or on a dyno modern automatic transmissions may be faster and/or deliver better fuel economy (by a small margin in each case), but as far as driving experience, they are by far inferior. Then there is the whole reliability discussion...
“Better” in my use was more fuel efficient and better able to control the car.
I had a 5 speed when ATs were 3 speed and free wheeled down slopes.
Todays ATs will drop gears on demand, shift faster, and are usually more efficient. You don’t get the fun of a well-timed downshift, for sure, but old time MTs were clearly better at everything, and now, technically, they are better at nothing; viscerally, in some conditions, they remain desirable.
#50
“Better” in my use was more fuel efficient and better able to control the car.
I had a 5 speed when ATs were 3 speed and free wheeled down slopes.
Todays ATs will drop gears on demand, shift faster, and are usually more efficient. You don’t get the fun of a well-timed downshift, for sure, but old time MTs were clearly better at everything, and now, technically, they are better at nothing; viscerally, in some conditions, they remain desirable.
#51
Drifting
Better is of course a relative term; yes, in the lab or on a dyno modern automatic transmissions may be faster and/or deliver better fuel economy (by a small margin in each case), but as far as driving experience, they are by far inferior. Then there is the whole reliability discussion...
#52
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And the cost of a clutch is what? Something like $400 plus labor; call it $1,200 max. Now, what do you suppose the cost of an 8, 9, or 10 speed transmission rebuild? Maybe $5,000 or more?
#54
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- The "keep up with the Joneses" crowd won't be able to say, "Yup, she's got all the options" when crowing about their new car.
- Given the lower number of manual transmission equipped cars being sold these days, the cost of development must be spread across a smaller population of cars; increasing the cost a bit to the point where offering cars so equipped in the future will continue to be profitable.
- Lots of folks, me included, would much prefer covering the cost of a clutch replacement every quarter of a million miles, then paying for a very expensive transmission rebuild every ~150,000 miles.
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frankjnjr (06-17-2018)
#55
Personally I think new cars with manual transmissions should be more expensive. Why? I have a number of funny(ish) reasons why, including, but not limited to the following:
- The "keep up with the Joneses" crowd won't be able to say, "Yup, she's got all the options" when crowing about their new car.
- Given the lower number of manual transmission equipped cars being sold these days, the cost of development must be spread across a smaller population of cars; increasing the cost a bit to the point where offering cars so equipped in the future will continue to be profitable.
- Lots of folks, me included, would much prefer covering the cost of a clutch replacement every quarter of a million miles, then paying for a very expensive transmission rebuild every ~150,000 miles.
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Maybe not sold in a new car, but far from extinct; many fans of manual transmissions are stocking up with cars to last the rest of their lives. I'm doing that, and so too is my 24 year old son.
#57
Suzuka Master
I had a '15 TLX with that dreaded 9 speed. I hated it enough to get rid of the car! The 10 speed doesn't seem to have the issues the 9 speed did.. that damn lag when you are at low speed waiting for it to down shift so you can pick up speed..
#58
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One more thing I don't think many have considered.
The cost of servicing the new 10-speed and how often? I know my friend spent $350.00 twice for 2015 TLX ZF trans fluid changes at the dealer. To no avail those fluid changes bought him just 119k miles before the ZF 9 speed went tits up. Even if your a DIY the ZF fluid is ~$50/quart. In fact, those fluid changes required a mysterious pre-heating of the new trans fluid before pumping it into the ZF.
If your leasing or plan to escape before the power-train expires good for you. If you plan on keeping the vehicle-the 120k Acura Care isn't an option-it's a must have.
The cost of servicing the new 10-speed and how often? I know my friend spent $350.00 twice for 2015 TLX ZF trans fluid changes at the dealer. To no avail those fluid changes bought him just 119k miles before the ZF 9 speed went tits up. Even if your a DIY the ZF fluid is ~$50/quart. In fact, those fluid changes required a mysterious pre-heating of the new trans fluid before pumping it into the ZF.
If your leasing or plan to escape before the power-train expires good for you. If you plan on keeping the vehicle-the 120k Acura Care isn't an option-it's a must have.
#59
One more thing I don't
think many have considered.
The cost of servicing the new 10-speed and how often? I know my friend spent $350.00 twice for 2015 TLX ZF trans fluid changes at the dealer. To no avail those fluid changes bought him just 119k miles before the ZF 9 speed went tits up. Even if your a DIY the ZF fluid is ~$50/quart. In fact, those fluid changes required a mysterious pre-heating of the new trans fluid before pumping it into the ZF.
If your leasing or plan to escape before the power-train expires good for you. If you plan on keeping the vehicle-the 120k Acura Care isn't an option-it's a must have.
think many have considered.
The cost of servicing the new 10-speed and how often? I know my friend spent $350.00 twice for 2015 TLX ZF trans fluid changes at the dealer. To no avail those fluid changes bought him just 119k miles before the ZF 9 speed went tits up. Even if your a DIY the ZF fluid is ~$50/quart. In fact, those fluid changes required a mysterious pre-heating of the new trans fluid before pumping it into the ZF.
If your leasing or plan to escape before the power-train expires good for you. If you plan on keeping the vehicle-the 120k Acura Care isn't an option-it's a must have.
There are inherent risks when buying an early production 1st year model. Not everyone has reliability as their absolute #1 priority, some want the latest and greatest. That’s the trade off. You should try buying a 1st year BMW, driving 30k+ miles a year, not maintaining it properly and see what happens to it in 4 years. Lol
And btw trans flushes should not cost $350, even at a dealer 😂
Last edited by joshuaren; 06-16-2018 at 08:32 PM.
#60
One more thing I don't think many have considered.
The cost of servicing the new 10-speed and how often? I know my friend spent $350.00 twice for 2015 TLX ZF trans fluid changes at the dealer. To no avail those fluid changes bought him just 119k miles before the ZF 9 speed went tits up. Even if your a DIY the ZF fluid is ~$50/quart. In fact, those fluid changes required a mysterious pre-heating of the new trans fluid before pumping it into the ZF.
If your leasing or plan to escape before the power-train expires good for you. If you plan on keeping the vehicle-the 120k Acura Care isn't an option-it's a must have.
The cost of servicing the new 10-speed and how often? I know my friend spent $350.00 twice for 2015 TLX ZF trans fluid changes at the dealer. To no avail those fluid changes bought him just 119k miles before the ZF 9 speed went tits up. Even if your a DIY the ZF fluid is ~$50/quart. In fact, those fluid changes required a mysterious pre-heating of the new trans fluid before pumping it into the ZF.
If your leasing or plan to escape before the power-train expires good for you. If you plan on keeping the vehicle-the 120k Acura Care isn't an option-it's a must have.
me that’s like 4 years (sales) but for most that’s a decade.
#62
Nope. There is a $4,530 up charge to go from a 1.5L Turbo I4 with 6-speed manual or CVT to a 2.0L Turbo I4 with 6-speed manual or 10-speed automatic. With the 6-speed manual being the common components among the four possible configurations, one can argue that $4,530 is for the difference in engine only.
Last edited by Accord07; 06-16-2018 at 10:48 PM.
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19RDX (06-16-2018)
#63
Nope. There is a $4,530 up charge to go from a 1.5L Turbo I4 with 6-speed manual or CVT to a 2.0L Turbo I4 with 6-speed manual or 10-speed automatic. With the 6-speed manual being the common components among the four possible configurations, one can argue that $4,530 is for the difference in engine only.
#64
Three Wheelin'
Nope. There is a $4,530 up charge to go from a 1.5L Turbo I4 with 6-speed manual or CVT to a 2.0L Turbo I4 with 6-speed manual or 10-speed automatic. With the 6-speed manual being the common components among the four possible configurations, one can argue that $4,530 is for the difference in engine only.
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Madd Dog (06-17-2018)
#65
Twice the mileage it was engineered for? No such thing. As a general rule, cars do better logging heavy highway miles where the fluids are consistently brought up to operating temperature. Unless he was using his car for a delivery vehicle or abusing it in some way, he was anything but hard on it. Assuming he performed the required maintenance, of course.
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RDX10 (07-26-2018)
#66
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Twice the mileage it was engineered for? No such thing. As a general rule, cars do better logging heavy highway miles where the fluids are consistently brought up to operating temperature. Unless he was using his car for a delivery vehicle or abusing it in some way, he was anything but hard on it. Assuming he performed the required maintenance, of course.
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HotRodW (06-17-2018)
#67
Another thing to add is on the 1.5 sport it adds features to the LX. On the 2.0 Sport it adds features to the EX. It's not really fair to compare to the 1.5 sport to the 2.0, because the 2.0 has more features than just an engine difference. The way to get a fair comparison is to compare the EX-L to the EX-L, which is a $2,000 difference that includes the transmission and engine.
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Curious3GTL (06-17-2018)
#68
im in sales. In 8 years I put 205000 miles on my tsx. Still runs like a champ. Has never left me sitting. Haven’t done anything to it other than oil changes and fluids, filters, tires etc. So no major service like valve cleaning, trans flushing, plugs, etc. whatever it was engineered for, i hope they did the same with the rdx
#69
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Use quality gas, use quality fluids and change them timely, replace with quality parts, remember that cars don’t heal themselves and fix problems timely. The car will be drivable long after you tire of driving it.
#70
Team Owner
And by "quality parts", Madd Dog is referring to OEM parts. As far as Honda/Acura parts are concerned, they're built to last, more than anything.
#71
#72
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Um, absolutely, vehicles and their parts are engineered to be used a certain number of miles within a certain time period. And absolutely driving 30k miles a year (and possibly 40k a year, depending on when he bought it) certainly puts more stress on a vehicle than 15k miles a year. But that wasn’t really the focus of my argument. My point is this guy is knocking Honda’s new 10-speed because of Honda’s issues with a 5-speed developed 20 years ago and a friend’s TLX with a ZF designed & built 9-speed transmission went bad, when it sounds like his friend didn’t even maintain it properly.
#73
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Um, absolutely, vehicles and their parts are engineered to be used a certain number of miles within a certain time period. And absolutely driving 30k miles a year (and possibly 40k a year, depending on when he bought it) certainly puts more stress on a vehicle than 15k miles a year. But that wasn’t really the focus of my argument. My point is this guy is knocking Honda’s new 10-speed because of Honda’s issues with a 5-speed developed 20 years ago and a friend’s TLX with a ZF designed & built 9-speed transmission went bad, when it sounds like his friend didn’t even maintain it properly.
Last edited by Mo_Green; 06-17-2018 at 06:55 PM.
#74
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Maintenance with quality (mostly OE parts for actual parts) replacements just saves all sorts of problems down the line.
#75
Drifting
One more thing I don't think many have considered.
The cost of servicing the new 10-speed and how often? I know my friend spent $350.00 twice for 2015 TLX ZF trans fluid changes at the dealer. To no avail those fluid changes bought him just 119k miles before the ZF 9 speed went tits up. Even if your a DIY the ZF fluid is ~$50/quart. In fact, those fluid changes required a mysterious pre-heating of the new trans fluid before pumping it into the ZF.
The cost of servicing the new 10-speed and how often? I know my friend spent $350.00 twice for 2015 TLX ZF trans fluid changes at the dealer. To no avail those fluid changes bought him just 119k miles before the ZF 9 speed went tits up. Even if your a DIY the ZF fluid is ~$50/quart. In fact, those fluid changes required a mysterious pre-heating of the new trans fluid before pumping it into the ZF.
Fluid for the ZF9HP is crazy expensive. Honda sells this as ATF Type 3.1 and Bernardi lists it at $37.84 per quart. Also, the procedure to check and adjust fluid level is rather complex and not at all DIY friendly. This is because the special ATF has a high coefficient of thermal expansion.
Fluid for Honda's 10-speed ( Honda ATF Type 2.0 ) is more "normal price" for ATF, $9.00 per quart at Bernardi. Good old ATF DW-1 is $6.41 per quart.
Dunno about procedure for ATF changes on the 10-speed, but to quote the Owner's Manual: "Do not attempt to check or change the automatic transmission fluid yourself."
https://www.bernardiparts.com/Honda-...RANSFLUID.aspx
#76
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Fair point.
Fluid for the ZF9HP is crazy expensive. Honda sells this as ATF Type 3.1 and Bernardi lists it at $37.84 per quart. Also, the procedure to check and adjust fluid level is rather complex and not at all DIY friendly. This is because the special ATF has a high coefficient of thermal expansion.
Fluid for Honda's 10-speed ( Honda ATF Type 2.0 ) is more "normal price" for ATF, $9.00 per quart at Bernardi. Good old ATF DW-1 is $6.41 per quart.
Dunno about procedure for ATF changes on the 10-speed, but to quote the Owner's Manual: "Do not attempt to check or change the automatic transmission fluid yourself."
https://www.bernardiparts.com/Honda-...RANSFLUID.aspx
Fluid for the ZF9HP is crazy expensive. Honda sells this as ATF Type 3.1 and Bernardi lists it at $37.84 per quart. Also, the procedure to check and adjust fluid level is rather complex and not at all DIY friendly. This is because the special ATF has a high coefficient of thermal expansion.
Fluid for Honda's 10-speed ( Honda ATF Type 2.0 ) is more "normal price" for ATF, $9.00 per quart at Bernardi. Good old ATF DW-1 is $6.41 per quart.
Dunno about procedure for ATF changes on the 10-speed, but to quote the Owner's Manual: "Do not attempt to check or change the automatic transmission fluid yourself."
https://www.bernardiparts.com/Honda-...RANSFLUID.aspx
I don’t want to tell you what it cost to replace the tranny fluid in my BMW, which was originally touted as ‘lifetime’, but isn’t. However, the Honda 10 speed is a Honda transmission, and I cannot believe they will sell that to Honda owners and require an outrageous price to change the fluid. That will kill Honda 10 speeds.
#78
For '18 Odyssey and Accord, transmission fluid change is listed for ZF 9-speed and CVT only and does not apply to the 10-speed; for '19 RDX, however, transmission fluid change is listed as a maintenance item.
#79
Advanced
Thread Starter
Fair point.
Fluid for the ZF9HP is crazy expensive. Honda sells this as ATF Type 3.1 and Bernardi lists it at $37.84 per quart. Also, the procedure to check and adjust fluid level is rather complex and not at all DIY friendly. This is because the special ATF has a high coefficient of thermal expansion.
Fluid for Honda's 10-speed ( Honda ATF Type 2.0 ) is more "normal price" for ATF, $9.00 per quart at Bernardi. Good old ATF DW-1 is $6.41 per quart.
Dunno about procedure for ATF changes on the 10-speed, but to quote the Owner's Manual: "Do not attempt to check or change the automatic transmission fluid yourself."
https://www.bernardiparts.com/Honda-...RANSFLUID.aspx
Fluid for the ZF9HP is crazy expensive. Honda sells this as ATF Type 3.1 and Bernardi lists it at $37.84 per quart. Also, the procedure to check and adjust fluid level is rather complex and not at all DIY friendly. This is because the special ATF has a high coefficient of thermal expansion.
Fluid for Honda's 10-speed ( Honda ATF Type 2.0 ) is more "normal price" for ATF, $9.00 per quart at Bernardi. Good old ATF DW-1 is $6.41 per quart.
Dunno about procedure for ATF changes on the 10-speed, but to quote the Owner's Manual: "Do not attempt to check or change the automatic transmission fluid yourself."
https://www.bernardiparts.com/Honda-...RANSFLUID.aspx
"Do not attempt to check or change the automatic transmission fluid yourself." I hope this is an error or a mistake. Otherwise, we can assume this is code for voiding your transmission warranty if anyone other than the dealer touches the transmission? I can already hear the dealer's cash register gleefully ringing.
#80
Drifting
I don't know the service interval for 10-speed ATF change, but it may be 60k miles. For the 9-speed in my (former) Pilot I never paid for it. It never came up on MM before 40k miles, when the transmission got replaced, and it hadn't come up when I traded it at almost 80k miles.
This is the Owner's Manual text for 2016 Honda Pilot Touring with the 9-speed transmission:
"Have a dealer check the fluid level and replace if necessary."
And it then goes on about warranty and using the correct fluid. I wonder if DIY ATF fluid changes are going the way of the rotary dial washing machine?
This is the Owner's Manual text for 2016 Honda Pilot Touring with the 9-speed transmission:
"Have a dealer check the fluid level and replace if necessary."
And it then goes on about warranty and using the correct fluid. I wonder if DIY ATF fluid changes are going the way of the rotary dial washing machine?