Tannis

Ok. 'Bout to order the runners. Cheap mod..yes. But is it actually worth it? Would it be even better to rip off the manifold as well and port that along with the runners that are already attached to the car by a local machine shop? I can't imagine that just porting the runners alone would actually do a whole lot.

With that said, does anyone have any solid proof with dyno results showing that it does anything at all? Saying things like, "it pulls much harder now" are not solid figures. I need numbers. Anyone?

Throwdown

iTrader: (1)

We've sold tons of these for the i4 Accord and everyone is very impressed with the results, however don't believe anyone has dyno'd this part yet on the i4, only on the V6. I'll update you if someone with an i4 does tho!

HeavyDuty

I don't have these ported runners, but having utilized the same mods with other apps, (extrude hone, port matching with pinned manifolds, etc.) anything that decreases the boundary layer & increases velocity will yield gains.

But, you can't just go hog out the ports/runners willy-nilly, you're likely to lose power if you do. Bigger isn't necessarily better.

Flow means nothing when velocity drops.

KillerG

might explain why the guy who bought all the mods available for k24z3 dynoed less than stock HP

HeavyDuty

Yeah, right?

I'd equate it to the 99-00 Si guys running ITR intake manifolds. Even with CTR intake cams and 92 GSR exhaust cams, the thing was a mutt until 200 rpm before redline...so...even worse of a mutt than the way it came.

Those setups were like...zzzzzz....YAY!....awwww, shift, repeat.

KillerG

the guy was named keak, he bought most of the bolt ons for the 8th accord (same parts we have) and dynoed vs a stock accord i4 and dynoed LESS than stock, which is very saddening, to say the least.

I believe he had DP, pulleys, runners, and an intake, he also upgraded the fail ruel, which is what many on my8thgeneration suspected was the problem, though your point about velocity is very very intriguing

i wonder how important exhaust backpressure is in terms of velocity...this seems to be something that noones sure about

Moose Muscles

What is your question, I will answer the best I can. To be honest, I'm not sure what a ported runner is or what its suppossed to do...

However, I do have a degree in computational physics and work as a nuclear operator in a nuke plant. So, I have a bit of a background in the sciences.

Moose Muscles

I'll just throw this up for you Killer, I think it might explain what your looking for...

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=659727

KillerG

hey that was a pretty good read and thanks alot for the info, nuclear operator moose muscles

im not an expert on anything automotive but heres a link to a ported runner install:

http://5z8.info/the-most-dangerous-g...-message-board

to the best of my understanding, it is the machined part of the engine from which air flows into the combustion chamber, so by porting the holes you are allowing a larger airflow into the combustion chamber

that being said, there are also other parts where the air flows into and from as well, so someone with more knowledge can elaborate on that for me

HeavyDuty

Good article, MM.

Killer, intake/exhaust sizes, lengths have to be approached as a system encompassing the rest of the desired outcome and where you want the power range to be.

ed_423

waitt, keak has all those and dynoed LESS power?!?!? where's the dyno?!

KillerG

he talked about it here a LONG LONG time ago, i also read my8thgen and he posts more there and yeah, he didn share his graphs, but he mentioned that stock dynoed like 164 and he was somehow less, then i stopped reading my8thgen

ill dig up the thread if you guys want

Moose Muscles

Ok. I will try to keep this as simple as possible.

The engine, piston, is a positive displacement pump. So your 4-banger has 4 positive displacement pumps that work in harmony to deliver a sequence of 4 bursts of power. Each pump has a distinct cycle with 5 basic "phases"; intake, fuel, compression, combustion, power.

Here is a GIF of the engine process:

http://www.proaerobusiness.com/engine-animation.gif

As you can see, the intake and exhaust are at separate phases.

So, if the intake is made to be bigger it can suck in more air volume but it loses velocity (same science behind a "venturi tube"). By losing velocity it loses the ability to pack more air into the chamber more QUICKLY (think of the water hose example from the article).

The faster velocity in, the faster velocity out, and the faster it comes out the more of a vacuum effect (low pressure) inside the cylinder.

If you can see that, then you can see that by allowing the larger inlet (intake) with lower velocity it does not have enough time to fully fill the cylinder with the correct air for the fuel/air ratio. Some engines will run rich, some engines have ECU parameters to counteract this new ratio.

That is my take on whats happening, but I'm no gear head. I just know pumps and physics. I'm sure some of those guys who swap K20 heads onto our K24 block and run RDX pistons/rods can tell you all kinds of reasons why the outcome is counter-intuitive to what you might think/want to happen.

Either way, I hope i'm helping more than i'm confusing.

KillerG

i feel like im a nuclear physicist after reading your posts

ed_423

wow thanks moose, learned a lot!

and killer, dig up that thread if you can

KillerG

Here is your confidential document, President Brobama


http://5z8.info/refugee-murder_z8v8v...message-boards

pbhak002

Brobama 2012- Only thing who could defeat the incumbent president along besides the 2008 Obama.
Thanks for the link Killer & the physics lesson Moose
Much appreciation!

ed_423

wow that was a very depressing read

VortexBlueTSX

That is an extremely depressing read....the keak one that is...as for the other one. I feel like when i go back to college i can tell them i graduated and now have a major in nuclear engineering to go with international business haha.

VortexBlueTSX

Sidenote....Killer, Gundam Forevah nice pic haha

KillerG

gundam <3

now we patiently wait for unicorn episode 4

Moose Muscles

didn't know where to tell you this, but sick profile pic Killer

KillerG

00 fan by any chance?

Tannis

omg... lol! yeah, nice pic killer. Been a hot minute since I've been on but thanks for the repsonses. I think I'm just going to wait until I get my ass home so I can install all the crap I have piled up before I order anything else. I had to take a step back and get the brake part of it done so I have the EBC GD rotors and yellowstuff pads for front and rear. Gotta be able to stop or the rest is pointless. And a special Thanks to Mark @ Throwdown for shipping all my shit! Separately that is, cuz I'm a retard.

Throwdown

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the kind words Tannis!

In regards to the runners, it's actually an interesting topic. The keak thing has me scratching my head (to be honest) but unfortunately there was not ever a before dyno just what we thought he should have started at, so theres WAY too many factors in my opinion to attribute the runners to any loss in power.

For similar reference on the TSX, the V6 Accord (same motor as the V6 TSX) showed a gain of +16whp/+20 ftlbs tq on an 2010 V6 Accord AT from just the ported intake runners, throttle body spacer with gaskets, and thermal intake manifold gasket.

Out of the tons and tons of sets we've sold, I have to say all customers from what I've seen were extremely happy with the performance gains with the runners. A few have even said that it was a better modification vs anything else (can link to threads but don't want to cross link to other forums but have the info if anyone needs).

Anyways, not trying to shove product down anyones throat, but just don't want anyone to overlook this mod because of the one dyno situation. From my experience theres so many factors involved and to base it only on an after dyno after all the mods is difficult to really validate. To keep things accurate you really need to do a before and after, on the same dyno, in a near time span to not affect the weather and temp, etc.

Keak

I'll be redynoing eventually.

Throwdown

iTrader: (1)

Sounds good Keak!

Tannis

Not to argue the point to death or beat this dyno thing into the ground more than it needs to be but I do see where gains could be more feasible in the V6. I think I've read at least 40+ threads in regards to the fact that there is so much potential in this motor yet all the potential has been tapped by Honda in the stock configuration and that is why Hondata won't do a reflash for it except for the supercherger and blah blah blah. I don't know. It's a cheap mod. I think I've wasted more money in time spent reseaching this mod. I could have learned Arabic by now.

I can't deny that others have felt gains. Dyno or no dyno there has to be some effect. Even if it is only a few HP I suppose it would still be worth it.

I'm actually really curious what my car will dyno stock so I'll get that taken care of before I mod anything. I'd actually like to see what the difference will be from all stock to just the runners and then with the rest of the mods. Less than $200 for three seperate trips to the dyno. No sweat. I'll try to get pics up by the third week of August. I guess I'm taking one for the team so I better get a frickin thank you or two once I'm done!

Tannis

Your welcome ed... I just ordered the runners about an hour ago. So it should be at my house once I manage to make it home. I'm just scoping out places to take the car for a run on the dyno. If anyone has any recommendations on that for the Virginia Beach/Chesapeake area I'm all ears.

ed_423

KillerG

get home safe soldier

Tannis

Will do!

Tannis

Dyno time tomorrow at 3pm. Will post results shortly after. Since we all know this car puts about 160hp to the wheels I figured it was both a waste of time and money to dyno a stock car. And since everyone is getting the basic runner/intake/tbs/downpipe combo on their rides I thought it might be most productive to dyno the same setup. Results to follow.

Throwdown

iTrader: (1)

Very cool, so far how do you like the feel of them?

Tannis

It is freakin' phenomenal! I got the car dyno'd a few hours ago. The video is finishing being edited as I type. The guys that do work on 600hp+ Vettes and what-not were throwing out some serious compliments on the car. I was taken aback but it was certainly appreciated. The sound inside the garage there was certainly something else. My frickin' britches were rattling. lol! New thread with link to the vid coming up shortly.

isshinryu30

Whatever happened

Throwdown

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, that would be great! We definitely receive great reviews of the ported intake runners

icky2unk

How much would this be for the V6 TSX. I'd be interested

Tannis

Separate thread titled "Dyno Results" with a link to pics and a video.