New stereo system, now have an electrical glitch
01-13-2019, 01:01 AM
#1
New stereo system, now have an electrical glitch
Hi everybody, I'm new here and just figuring these forums out. I now regret not taking photos and documenting my install as it would have been helpful to the community. If anyone has any questions I would be happy to answer them.
I have a 2010 base model TSX. I just recently installed a full stereo system. Pioneer AVH W4400NEX head unit, Maestro RR steering wheel controls, A Pioneer 4 x 100 watt rms amp. New front tweeters, mids and rear co-axials. 2 ohm 500 watt rms Alpine mono amp for the sub. 1 Alpine Type - R dual voice coil 4 ohm 12" max 500 watt rms. There is also a 200 watt rms powered sub under the front seat.I'll happily disconnect this sub if it would help. This powered sub was my first project, then the damn car audio bug bit me, and I got carried away. I researched all of the wiring and I should have the proper gauge wires, power block, fuses and the ground for the amps is good. Within a 2 feet of the amps and the paint has been ground down to bare metal.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but our car should have a 130 amp alternator. I have a Optima yellow top. I'm running 1100 watt rms total. For 2 weeks I've been pounding music with no problems. No light dimming, no clipping, deep heavy bass and tuned to my liking. I was really happy with it but today I had a power drop. For the entire time I've been driving around I've been using a voltmeter that plugs into the cigarette lighter and have been monitoring it very closely. It's usually always been 14-14.2 volts.
Today during normal daytime city stop and go traffic while listening to music, the volts dropped to 12.5 volts. 12.5 accelerating, driving at 20-30mph and at idle. I immediately turned off the head unit and system, turned off the heater and started stressing. If I used the paddle shifters in manual mode, in 1st and 2nd gear and floored it and revved it to 5000-6000 rpm, I could get the volts up to 14.0-14.2. As I slowed down it dropped back to 12.5 at idle. I discovered that if I put the car into Park at every traffic light the volts would go back to 14+. I took a brief spin on the freeway at normal speeds and it was a normal 14.2. I made a few stops during the day and after restarting, for a brief 30 minute period everything was normal with music playing at 14.0 v, the entire time driving and at idle, then suddenly it was 12.5v again. The crazy part is when I turned on my lights everything went back to a normal 14.0-14.2 v. Turned the headlights off, it dropped again to 12.5. I went out tonight and drove for an hour, headlights, heater and stereo booming at a reasonable level. 14.2v. I shut my headlights off, drove around on some side streets for a bit, no problems. I'm so utterly confused. When I crank up the stereo for testing and tuning, on certain songs, on a really heavy bass note it would drop to 13.2-13.5 and go back to a normal 14. I don't do this that often as I don't want to stress my electrical system and alternator too much.
Does anyone have a clue or suggestion what I should do? Have I damaged my alternator or something else?
I'm going to do the Big 3 upgrade ASAP. Some things about my car. Besides the stock HID, every single bulb is LED. Brakes, reverse, license, interior, marker lights, turn signals. I have 4 resistors installed for the turn signals. DRL is a high quality one that has a proper functioning low beam DRL and high beam. No error codes. I've been studying and upgrading the lights over 3 years and have never had an electrical issue. Only today, 2 weeks after I installed the stereo did I have this new problem. If you've made it this far thank you for reading and I'm open to any suggestions.
I have a 2010 base model TSX. I just recently installed a full stereo system. Pioneer AVH W4400NEX head unit, Maestro RR steering wheel controls, A Pioneer 4 x 100 watt rms amp. New front tweeters, mids and rear co-axials. 2 ohm 500 watt rms Alpine mono amp for the sub. 1 Alpine Type - R dual voice coil 4 ohm 12" max 500 watt rms. There is also a 200 watt rms powered sub under the front seat.I'll happily disconnect this sub if it would help. This powered sub was my first project, then the damn car audio bug bit me, and I got carried away. I researched all of the wiring and I should have the proper gauge wires, power block, fuses and the ground for the amps is good. Within a 2 feet of the amps and the paint has been ground down to bare metal.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but our car should have a 130 amp alternator. I have a Optima yellow top. I'm running 1100 watt rms total. For 2 weeks I've been pounding music with no problems. No light dimming, no clipping, deep heavy bass and tuned to my liking. I was really happy with it but today I had a power drop. For the entire time I've been driving around I've been using a voltmeter that plugs into the cigarette lighter and have been monitoring it very closely. It's usually always been 14-14.2 volts.
Today during normal daytime city stop and go traffic while listening to music, the volts dropped to 12.5 volts. 12.5 accelerating, driving at 20-30mph and at idle. I immediately turned off the head unit and system, turned off the heater and started stressing. If I used the paddle shifters in manual mode, in 1st and 2nd gear and floored it and revved it to 5000-6000 rpm, I could get the volts up to 14.0-14.2. As I slowed down it dropped back to 12.5 at idle. I discovered that if I put the car into Park at every traffic light the volts would go back to 14+. I took a brief spin on the freeway at normal speeds and it was a normal 14.2. I made a few stops during the day and after restarting, for a brief 30 minute period everything was normal with music playing at 14.0 v, the entire time driving and at idle, then suddenly it was 12.5v again. The crazy part is when I turned on my lights everything went back to a normal 14.0-14.2 v. Turned the headlights off, it dropped again to 12.5. I went out tonight and drove for an hour, headlights, heater and stereo booming at a reasonable level. 14.2v. I shut my headlights off, drove around on some side streets for a bit, no problems. I'm so utterly confused. When I crank up the stereo for testing and tuning, on certain songs, on a really heavy bass note it would drop to 13.2-13.5 and go back to a normal 14. I don't do this that often as I don't want to stress my electrical system and alternator too much.
Does anyone have a clue or suggestion what I should do? Have I damaged my alternator or something else?
I'm going to do the Big 3 upgrade ASAP. Some things about my car. Besides the stock HID, every single bulb is LED. Brakes, reverse, license, interior, marker lights, turn signals. I have 4 resistors installed for the turn signals. DRL is a high quality one that has a proper functioning low beam DRL and high beam. No error codes. I've been studying and upgrading the lights over 3 years and have never had an electrical issue. Only today, 2 weeks after I installed the stereo did I have this new problem. If you've made it this far thank you for reading and I'm open to any suggestions.
01-17-2019, 02:52 PM
#2
Service manual says hold the engine at 3k rpm til the radiator fan comes on, then drop to idle.
System voltage should be at 13.5 - 15.1V,with 87.5amps or more. They put an amprobe on the lead at the battery
If less than 13.5V, they suggest the alternator control circuit should be looked at. This seems to require an HDS device (Honda Diagnostics System?, probably proprietary)
If over 15.1, and less than 87.5a, repair or replace the alternator.
Might look to see if your alternator drive belt has sufficient tension, though I would expect slippage under acceleration.
System voltage should be at 13.5 - 15.1V,with 87.5amps or more. They put an amprobe on the lead at the battery
If less than 13.5V, they suggest the alternator control circuit should be looked at. This seems to require an HDS device (Honda Diagnostics System?, probably proprietary)
If over 15.1, and less than 87.5a, repair or replace the alternator.
Might look to see if your alternator drive belt has sufficient tension, though I would expect slippage under acceleration.
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silverstreaktsx (01-21-2019)
01-18-2019, 09:44 PM
#3
Thanks RTM for your well thought out and helpful reply. I suspected it could have been belt tension problem too. I went to an Acura dealership and they wanted my car for a few days full range of tests. The service adviser was guessing it would be very expensive to diagnose and fix. He kept implying that it was my fault because of my stereo. It didn't seem like a normal electrical problem because it came and went. I went home right away and did a more thorough search for alternator and voltage problems on this site. I literally read hundreds of threads going back years and I found out my "problem" was actually a feature of Honda and Acura vehicles. It's apparently so obscure that many Acura mechanics don't know about it and will change perfectly good alternators and belts for no good reason.
I found a technical paper in another thread that explains Honda's dual charging system. I've attached it to this post. When there is a low load situation and the battery is full, voltage drops to 12.5-12.7 V. I was so relieved to find and read this. You, don't need to read the whole thing, just a few paragraphs on the first 2 pages. Remember when I mentioned that voltage jumped back to 14.0 volts and was normal when I turned on my lights? That was the dual charging system at work!
I found a technical paper in another thread that explains Honda's dual charging system. I've attached it to this post. When there is a low load situation and the battery is full, voltage drops to 12.5-12.7 V. I was so relieved to find and read this. You, don't need to read the whole thing, just a few paragraphs on the first 2 pages. Remember when I mentioned that voltage jumped back to 14.0 volts and was normal when I turned on my lights? That was the dual charging system at work!
01-19-2019, 10:17 AM
#4
Thanks RTM for your well thought out and helpful reply. I suspected it could have been belt tension problem too. I went to an Acura dealership and they wanted my car for a few days full range of tests. The service adviser was guessing it would be very expensive to diagnose and fix. He kept implying that it was my fault because of my stereo. It didn't seem like a normal electrical problem because it came and went. I went home right away and did a more thorough search for alternator and voltage problems on this site. I literally read hundreds of threads going back years and I found out my "problem" was actually a feature of Honda and Acura vehicles. It's apparently so obscure that many Acura mechanics don't know about it and will change perfectly good alternators and belts for no good reason.
I found a technical paper in another thread that explains Honda's dual charging system. I've attached it to this post. When there is a low load situation and the battery is full, voltage drops to 12.5-12.7 V. I was so relieved to find and read this. You, don't need to read the whole thing, just a few paragraphs on the first 2 pages. Remember when I mentioned that voltage jumped back to 14.0 volts and was normal when I turned on my lights? That was the dual charging system at work!
I found a technical paper in another thread that explains Honda's dual charging system. I've attached it to this post. When there is a low load situation and the battery is full, voltage drops to 12.5-12.7 V. I was so relieved to find and read this. You, don't need to read the whole thing, just a few paragraphs on the first 2 pages. Remember when I mentioned that voltage jumped back to 14.0 volts and was normal when I turned on my lights? That was the dual charging system at work!
I have a 2012 TSX base wagon with an 1100 watt system as well and I've never experienced any voltage drop like your experiencing. It's even more surprising considering that I'm running old school (but good) Audison class A/b amps which are horribly inefficient and draw tons of current versus the standard class D amplifiers commonly used these days.
01-21-2019, 01:13 AM
#5
It's probably because I'm using class D amps that it happened to me. The dual charging mode needs very specific conditions to go into low output mode. Remember, I freaked out and shut off all accessories and stereo and drove around for hours and it stayed at 12.5V?
Below are the conditions from the paper.
-electrical Load below 15 Amps (varies with vehicle), - Thinking back, I had the stereo turned down very low and I think my fan was on low with no heat when it dropped to 12.5 for the first
time
-vehicle speed between 10-45 mph or at idle while in drive, I was in stop and go traffic the whole time at 12.5 V. When I went on the freeway it went back to high output mode at 14.2
The moment I put the car into park at every red light it went back to 14.2V ( It was really stressful to drive this way! I kept thinking my
car was going to die!)
-engine speed below 3,000 rpm, When I gunned it and got the engine up to 6000-7000 rpm in 1st and 2nd using my paddle shifter it went back to 14.2, but would drop
to 12.5 v as I slowed down.
-coolant temperature above 167°F (75°C), Obvious as I was in stop and go traffic
-A/C Switch Off Check
intake air temperature above 68°F (20°C). Check - I have Maestro RR which shows me all the gauges on my head unit. I looked up normal temps later.
At the time, the one thing that got me thinking was that when I turned on my headights and foglights, running lights ect.. the "problem" went away and I was at a normal 14.2 V again. This was just the electrical system running in high output mode as the lights increased the load past 15 amps. If I blast my music like normal and drive normally now I never see a drop. Haven't seen it since, except for a 30 second drop to 12.5. To test it I turned my AC on and voltage jumped right to back to 14.2.
I'm guessing you probably have never experienced the low output mode because you are using inefficient amps and probably have your music on most of the time? Maybe your AC is on most of the time too? Besides, who really pays attention to their moment to moment voltage besides car audio nuts? Btw, I did the Big 3 upgrade. It was kind of a nightmare getting the bolt on the alternator that holds down the wire to the battery off. Now I can pound my music all day long with no worries. Electrical system is even stronger than before.
Below are the conditions from the paper.
-electrical Load below 15 Amps (varies with vehicle), - Thinking back, I had the stereo turned down very low and I think my fan was on low with no heat when it dropped to 12.5 for the first
time
-vehicle speed between 10-45 mph or at idle while in drive, I was in stop and go traffic the whole time at 12.5 V. When I went on the freeway it went back to high output mode at 14.2
The moment I put the car into park at every red light it went back to 14.2V ( It was really stressful to drive this way! I kept thinking my
car was going to die!)
-engine speed below 3,000 rpm, When I gunned it and got the engine up to 6000-7000 rpm in 1st and 2nd using my paddle shifter it went back to 14.2, but would drop
to 12.5 v as I slowed down.
-coolant temperature above 167°F (75°C), Obvious as I was in stop and go traffic
-A/C Switch Off Check
intake air temperature above 68°F (20°C). Check - I have Maestro RR which shows me all the gauges on my head unit. I looked up normal temps later.
At the time, the one thing that got me thinking was that when I turned on my headights and foglights, running lights ect.. the "problem" went away and I was at a normal 14.2 V again. This was just the electrical system running in high output mode as the lights increased the load past 15 amps. If I blast my music like normal and drive normally now I never see a drop. Haven't seen it since, except for a 30 second drop to 12.5. To test it I turned my AC on and voltage jumped right to back to 14.2.
I'm guessing you probably have never experienced the low output mode because you are using inefficient amps and probably have your music on most of the time? Maybe your AC is on most of the time too? Besides, who really pays attention to their moment to moment voltage besides car audio nuts? Btw, I did the Big 3 upgrade. It was kind of a nightmare getting the bolt on the alternator that holds down the wire to the battery off. Now I can pound my music all day long with no worries. Electrical system is even stronger than before.
Last edited by silverstreaktsx; 01-21-2019 at 01:20 AM. Reason: The format is all messed up and tough to read
01-21-2019, 06:54 AM
#7
The good news is that your amplifiers have fully regulated power supplies and you're going to get the same power regardless voltage drops. I'm going to get around to doing The Big Three but I need to make an amp board first so everything looks pretty now.
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