I've done some poking around and found answers for older models, but I didn't see anything specific for the 09 models.

All I'm wanting to do is install a new sub and amp and ditch the old sub.

For the older models, I read where it's not advised to tap into the audio signal before the amplifier, so would this imply that I should just take the two wires off the sub, connect a line converter (for RCA's), then run a short RCA from that to my new amp?

Technically, it sounds simple enough, but what I'm concerned about is having too much signal going into the new amp.

I've always put a new HU in with new amps/speakers for prior cars, making for a simple install, but this one with the tech package makes it diffucult to replace the HU. I don't mind using the factory HU, but just want to ensure I'm hooking up the new sub amp the best way possible.

Any help is greatly appreciated!!

Thanks,
Travis

 

For a sub-only install, you definitely do want the speaker outputs from the Acura amp powering the factory sub.

There is probably some EQing on this line - I haven't measured a new one yet - but it's unlikely to be so drastic as to make your addition of a sub and amp sound bad. What I mean is, most OEM signals have a filter to take out the lowest notes that the factory sub can't play.

For the best sound, you would restore those notes somehow. We would do it with a Zapco DC amp and a BTL attenuator interface, but there are other ways. 90% of the folks out there would like the way a decent LOC sounds and be done.

 

For a sub-only install, you definitely do want the speaker outputs from the Acura amp powering the factory sub.

There is probably some EQing on this line - I haven't measured a new one yet - but it's unlikely to be so drastic as to make your addition of a sub and amp sound bad. What I mean is, most OEM signals have a filter to take out the lowest notes that the factory sub can't play.

For the best sound, you would restore those notes somehow. We would do it with a Zapco DC amp and a BTL attenuator interface, but there are other ways. 90% of the folks out there would like the way a decent LOC sounds and be done.

 

You can’t take the signal before the amp on the ELS system because the HU outputs a fixed level signal to feed the A/D converts in the ELS amp. The ELS amp then applies a heavy mix of DSP before returning the signal back to analog. The ELS amp is controlled via a data stream from the HU so that it can control the audio settings. Basically when you adjust the audio settings on the HU the adjustments take place in the ELS amp.

I have decoded all the data and built a proof of concept preamp that will take the place of the ELS amp. I am just about done with the PCB for the prototype and if all goes well I will have one built and ready to go in a few weeks.

For the base system I will have a converter that will again take the place of the factory amp and give you high quality line outs to drive your amps. The converter will allow you to keep or defeat the factory Active Sound Control on the 2010s.

So the short answer is; feed your sub amp from the speaker lines and live with the EQ for now.

Jeff

 

Thank you both very much for the responses, I really appreciate the technical detail.

Mercman, when you complete the preamp, are you going to make a post offering them, or is it something I should just check back with you about?

I'm going to go ahead and hook up the amp from the leads going to the back of the sub for now, but when available, I'd like to pick up one of your preamps. I'm real particular about my tunes, anything to improve the quality is a plus for me.

Thanks again for the information!!

 

I just wanted to post an update on my install for those that might be interested. Maybe this post will be helpful for others wanting to do the same and can use it as a reference. I am very pleased with the results.

I used a PAC line converter for the amp, connected the positive lead to the blue wire going to the sub, and the negative to the greyish brown wire. Obviously I disconnected the plug connected to the sub, cut the plug off, stripped the wires, then connected the LOC. Ran the RCA from the LOC to the amp.

Remote wire for the amp was connected to the accessory fuse on the driver's side panel, I bought one of those "add a circuit" fuse holders to do so...If anyone wants the fuse panel number I'll be happy to get it for you.

I ran 4 gauge wire to the amp, ground was tapped from a bolt under the rear deck. Everything powered up with no problems, sound is clean with no popping or interference.

At first, I started with the bass and subwoofer turned down on the HU, and something didn't seem quite right (sound wise). I messed with the amp settings, changing crossover frequencies, subsonic filter, gain, and bass EQ. It sounded good but not quite what I expected. So then I went the other way, I turned down the amp, and put my HU settings back to where I had them before the new sub and amp, and that made all the difference in the world. I started seeing the relation of the factory HU to the ELS amp. The settings in the HU definitely affect the range of sound coming out of the amp.

Anyways, if anyone is interested in adding just an amp and sub, it's really easy to do and the results were more than satisfying. I'm no expert but I'd be happy to help anyone that has any questions.

My friend Stan and I built the enclosure, Rockford Fosgate Power DVC 10", 2 ohm, powered by a hifonics brutus amp. Now that we know how it sounds, I'm going to complete the install with covering the box and fab some panels to clean up the look.

 

Not trying to steal the thread but Jeff perhaps you can answer a question(s) for me. I'm curious as to why the rear door speakers which are identical to the front door speakers have practically no bass coming from them? Is there an inline filter or is each speaker wired individually to the amp? I was also curious about the front tweeters, same question, inline filter, or direct to the amp? I'm very curious about the factory system. I've already had my front door speakers and the sub replaced. I never thought it would be possible to blow speakers with a factory system. But I was wrong. I've backed off the bass, and backed off the volume as well. Anyhow any insight would be greatly appreciated.
While I don't think it's "audiophile" grade components but sure sounds nice for a sub 34K car. Thanks in advance.

 

No worries, the more info in the thread the better IMO.

I've always heard bass coming from my door speakers. It's not low frequencies that are coming through them, but where the sub cuts out, the door speakers seem to pick up and vice versa. I'm not sure how the crossovers are set, or what type of crossovers are used, but I'm like you, I'm all for learning as much as I can about the factory setup.

 

That’s an easy one,
The ELS amp is a full DSP and has been tuned to provide a surround sound experience as well as to improve the factory speakers. One thing to note is that the ELS amp knows what mode the HU is in XM, FM CD, DVD-A and adjusts each channel based on this. So, in DVD-A the mix is completely different then say CD or XM. The end result is good in terms of the listening with the factory speakers but really bad when using aftermarket. The compensation also changes with the volume setting. This will play havic with any attempt to use a DSP or clean sweep after the ELS amp. You could EQ it for CD but when you switch to XM you will have a different eq to deal with.

The front tweeters on the ELS TSX use a cap on the back of the tweeter; this is different from the base TSX which drives the tweeter from a separate amp channel. I posted a run down on both systems a few months ago. I also posted on the ELS amp and why the speakers blow.

Travis,
Are you planning to add amps to the main channels or just the sub?

Jeff

 

Jeff,

I would like to add an amp to the main channels too, for more sound and adjustability, but wanted to learn more about the best way to do so before jumping into anything. I really would enjoy being able to set my own crossover settings for the highs; they play frequencies a little lower than I care to send to the door speakers.

You've provided a lot of great information and it all falls in line with the results I'm seeing. Thank you for your help!

 

i would like to know where i can find the amp pin diagram so i can connect my JL audio amps from the amp in the trunk of the car can u guys help me!!!! because went i put my music on my 08 accord i have with the Speed Volume Control it was a lot of distortion everytime i press the gas and the rpm went up and down

 

You forgot to mention, where did you place the amp, and how did you pull the power cable all the way to the trunk? From the drivers side, or from the passengers?

 

For the moment, I put the amp on the back of the box until I find a more suitable place for it. I ran the power wire through the big grommet on the firewall (passenger side), then underneath the door sill and into the trunk.

 

Travis, I am installing a 10w7 via a 1200 watt phoeniz gold amp ( gotta turn the gains way down ). I have a 2009 TSX TECH

I got two quotes from installers, the first described the install as you have, using the signal from the stock subwoofer;
the second was talking about using the signal from the front two speakers to signal the subwoofers amp.

Im pretty sure im going to use your method, what do you think about the second method ?

Also any tips? perhaps you learned from some mistakes during the install. Where to run the wires through, what kind of high/low converter, what gauge of wire, the first installer also spoke of something to install around the ignistion regarding powering the amp seperately :S, i dont know much about electronics, is this necessary?, i didnt see you mention this. I will be showing your reply to my installer most likely, so if you can give some information that supplements the information already on this thread, i would really appreciate it, thanks ! and can you hook up that fuse panel number ?

 

Tell your installer to take the signal from the factory sub speaker wires, anywhere else and it will be lame. All of the outputs of the ELS amp are tuned for the speaker they drive. Using the sub wires will give you sub level control via the HU and will also give you the bass frequencies that your sub needs.
Jeff

 

So i finally got the w7 installed the way you guys did, through the factory subwoofers signal, and Jeff, now I finally understand what you meat when you said you can notice the equalizing on better speakers.

The sub sounds great, and its still breaking in but I can definately notice frequencies that it could have handeled, that are completely left out. In some songs that have a "bassy" beats, some of the frequencies play on the regular speakers and then out of no where the sub will rumble in on the next lower frequencie, and then be gone. Some people might not notice, but I'm not completely satisfied with it. I guess I'll have to deal with it for now; Jeff if you ever figure this out and you wanna sell the solution, be sure to post.

Travis, have you noticed this with your subs ?

 

hey guys,
i have a 2010 tsx tech and im thinking about replacing the stock sub with an 8 inch 600 peak 300rms watt kicker sub. i know that i have an 8 inch sub already, but is it possible to remove that one and drop the kicker in its place? i know ill also need a new amp which i also plan on getting. i just dont want a sub in a box in my trunk, so i thought of this as a solution, but im not sure if its even possible? any tips or advice would be awesome. thanks

 

I'm sorry I missed your first post asking for info, I was on a vacation, but it sounds like you got the setup figured out.

Yeah, on XM/FM/USB/CD I do notice what seems to be a drop off for certain frequencies, I'm guessing it's due to the crossover or subsonic settings on the ELS.

I recently learned how to create DVD-Audio discs, and the quality of sound coming from the DVD-Audio discs is SO much better than the others (XM/FM/USB/CD). I remember Mercman saying the ELS had different settings applied for each "source", and I can totally hear that. The DVD-Audio settings in the ELS is really close to what I'm looking for regarding the range and strength of signal to "x" speakers, I just wish I had another 50-100 watts for the doors. I am anxiously awaiting an adapter for the factory harness to provide pre-amps for the door speakers. Once I can completely control the crossovers and add more power to the doors, I'll be 100% satisfied using the factory HU. Making my own DVD-Audio discs has been a good stop gap for the shortcomings of the sound on the other "sources" through the HU. I won't even listen to the radio anymore, it's DVD-A or nothing, LOL.

 

You should be able to replace the factory sub with an aftermarket and use the same space, you may need to drill new mounting holes but technically there shouldn't be any reason why you can't do that. You'll have to remove the rear deck to access the subwoofer, it has to come out from the top.

If you do end up replacing the sub and using the factory location, make sure you buy a free-air or infinite baffle style subwoofer.

I tried replacing just the sub and use the factory amp and I noticed no difference in sound. IMO, if you want to increase the sub output you'll need to replace the sub and the amp at the same time.

 

Ya, the drop off for frequencies is too harsh for usb/cd/fm/ etc. ( havent tried dvd-a yet ). My friend has honda civic with a 12inch sub and i can notice that some songs pound in his car, and in my car the w7 just sits mostly idle.

1) What program do you usually use to burn DVD-A ?
2) Do you just burn MP3's onto the DVD or convert them to something else first ?
3) If you burn various types of files onto your DVD-A, eg. MP3, WAV etc. do they differ in sound quality ?
4) How many songs can you usually fit on a DVD-A ( i love using my USB dongle as my audio device cuz i can copy my whole library onto one )

 

thanks 09TSXTRAVIS,i found a 8inch kenwood sub, 600w peak, and a 750w kenwood amp. but how do i go about disconnecting the stock amp? im kind of illiterate when it comes to this. does the stock amp need to be removed? or just disconnected? im not even sure where the stock amp is located in my car.

 

I have been using HD Audio Solo to burn the DVD-A discs

I convert the mp3's to wav files then burn them to disc using HD Audio Solo. I found a free audio converting program online that works well, can't remember the name of it though.

You will encounter some songs that will either not be as loud or have poorer/better quality than others, depending on where you got the music from. If you ripped it from a CD, then it all has the same quality. Downloaded music varies depending on how well it was ripped or recorded.

My last DVD-A disc had about 50 songs on it. That number will vary depending on the length of songs you put on it, as well as the file size.

 

For now, leave your stock amp connected. Use the wires going to your factory sub for your input into a line converter, or hi-level inputs on your amp if they have them.

I simply unplugged the factory subwoofer, cut the plug off, then connected those two leads to the line converter. My line converter had a pair of inputs, so I tied the right and left positive together, then tied the right and left negative together, then connected the positive and negative leads from the converter to the positive and negative leads that went to the factory sub.

Then I ran an RCA cable from the line converter to my aftermarket amp. I tapped into the fuse panel underneath the dash on the driver's side for the amp remote turn-on. Power wire run down the passenger side through a large grommet in the firewall. I found a bolt under the rear deck panel that made for a great ground.

As of now, this is the best way to connect an aftermarket amp. Hopefully one day in the near future, there will be a module that can be put in place to bypass the factory ELS amp.

Hope this helps

 

thanks travis, if i bring my car to an audio shop, and tell them what you told me here about removing the rear deck and a line converter and such do you think they'll know what im talking about..i wish i could do this myself but i cant. i appreciate you taking the time to help me out with this.

 

An audio shop should definitely understand and be able to remove your factory sub and install the new one. Removing a rear deck is pretty common to access the speakers. That's all I would tell them, that you just want the old one out and the new one installed, and to use a line converter from your factory sub's speaker wires to connect the amp.

A line converter is pretty much standard practice for installing an aftermarket amp to a factory head unit. Most aftermarket amps only have low level inputs (RCA), and the sub's speaker wires (high level) must be converted to RCA to connect to the amp. Any professional shop should be familiar with this process. I used a PAC model SNI-35, works great. They probably have this same one in stock or something similar.

I am always glad to help, custom car audio has been a hobby of mine since I was 12 years old. If it wasn't for other people helping me, I wouldn't have half the knowledge I do now. Just passing it forward

 

Im interested in putting a 12" sub in my 09 TSX tech. I have always been into car audio so this didn't seem like a very hard task for me, but with the GPS in a separate housing I kinda hit a stopping point. I have always used a line converter to add subs to factory radios, but will this mess with the ELS system? I want to remove the factory sub and use the hole in the back as a port from the trunk to the cabin, but do is the sub on a different amp than the other speakers? This may have all been addressed above, but I'm not one to read the long posts cause I have ADD... so my overall question is can i use a line converter and remove the stock sub without messing anything up?

 

.

 

Hey hear that a bit one is the thing that I want to get installed in my car if I want to put in new stuff ie amps or new subs/door speakers

 

hey..i have a loc..i believe its a pac.. for my sub and amp.. installed same way as u have it..power thru passenger side.. took the signal off the rear sub and remote is thru the fusebox. (i didnt do the install..had pros do it).. now i am looking to add a second amp to power new components for the front and coaxials in the rear..im pretty sure i have 8 gauge wire.. so will most likely have to upgrade this..any other tips.. such as upgrading the speaker wire and the loc to handle a second amp..or should i just use distribution blocks.. ive been reading as much as I can would really appreciate any and all advice..thank you

 

Awesome Info. Starting the install soon

 

I had my aftermarket sub hooked up to the stock sub output but the ELS messes with the sound way too much. I hooked it upto the rear deck speaker and I get a much better sound out of my sub as the deck speakers handle a broader range of the low frequencies then the sub. Of course if you were to switch to pro logic the bass would cut out but, I suggest someone try this and see what sounds better for their taste.

 

Does anyone have any tips when running the wires through the passenger side? I want to remove the door trim along the floor and want to be cautious not to break the trim. Does this just pop off or are there clips I should look for?

 

I just added an amp to push an upgraded sub. I ran my wires on the driver side but of all the panels I had to remove, the door trim along the floor was the easiest to pop off and put back. I used the exploded diagrams on this site as a guide.
http://www.acurapartswarehouse.com/2...or-bumper.html

 

I ran my wires on the driver side because there is a factory hole and grommet in the firewall (behind and above the gas pedal components) to run the power cable through. If you push on it from the inside with your finger, it will pop right out. I recommend rigging something up to catch it. I popped mine out and lost it in the engine compartment but luckily found it on the garage floor a few days later.

 

The other day I was listening to "black skinhead" and it sounded like my car was suffering. I played it home system without any problems. Anywho...

Has anyone replaced the stock sub with an aftermarket speaker (free air?) and powered it with an aftermarket amp? Also how would an aftermarket sub sound with the ELS amp?

*I know a box would give me the best sound but I don't want to ride around with a box in my trunk.

 

Keeping this thread alive. Has anybody come up with a solution to avoid the ELS amp? I would sure like to get some Dynaudio separates, but then I need an amp, and then I'm back to dealing with the ELS and bluetooth module.

 

Holy bump.

As far as i know mercman was working on that, but i think he no longer has a TSX.

 

Thanks. That probably saves me a bunch of money and headache anyways

 

clip harness

 

I posted in another thread that I replaced my stock sub with a JL midbass driver and powered it with a 500w JL amp. The sound is way better even though I'm still breaking it in. Plan on adding a couple 10's or a 12 for some real bass soon!