L61

I am a long time Honda owner; 2 civics, CRV and Accord. I am now comparing the 2009 or 2010 TSX four cylinder with same year Audi A4.

Please jump in with your views and opinions on these two fine cars.

DerwoodEE

Owning or leasing?

It's a bid deal IMO because Audi's have a reputation for not being the most reliable cars down the road once the warranty runs out.

GrigioX

I have an '09 TSX Tech and an '06 Audi A6 3.2Q (which by the way has been flawless through 40k miles). Derwood, it's not that they are unreliable, it's that if something does break, it's expensive to fix!

I just got an '09 A4 2.0T Quattro with Premium Plus pkg as a loaner when i took my A6 in for service this morning. This is hands down a better car than my TSX. It's roomier, faster, the fit and finish are better, etc. I drove it 15 miles to work this morning after I picked it up. It is much more composed on the highway than the TSX. The 2.0T has seemingly endless torque in every gear and let's not forgot the awesomeness that is the Quattro AWD system.

That being said, it costs easily $7k more in this configuration and will probably cost more to maintain outside of the warranty (4yrs 50k miles). Also, the A4 does not have navigation where my TSX does (it does have bluetooth, voice recognition, and a pretty good sound system). The TSX could have been a competitor if they had dropped a 6spd auto and the SH-AWD into the TSX...but alas they did not.

So my verdict is this:

The TSX is a better value for $$. Not factoring in $$, the A4 is hands down the better car. If I had to choose between a loaded TSX and a completely basic A4 just to match on price, i would probably pick the TSX because I love me some gadgets. But that's just me. If i had had the extra $200/month it would have cost me to get into an A4 with the premium pkg and navigation, I wouldn't have the TSX.

GrigioX

That's $200/month more to get into a PRESTIGE pkg A4 with nav.

SG81

iTrader: (1)

for the short term, i'd get the A4. if you plan on keeping the car for a longer period,i'd get the TSX

DerwoodEE

With all due respect though, 40K miles really isn't that much. I used to work for a VW/Audi dealer and have seen my fair share of issues with those cars. Granted, things might be better since then because I haven't worked there since early 2006. But as you stated, they get pretty pricey to maintain down the line.

katmai

Well duh....I would hope that more $$$ would get you more car! lol

I wouldn't buy an Audi, unless I had money to throw away. Audis are hardly known for their reliablity. he he

HI OFECR

Audi = spending all disposable income on repairs.

Don't do it Ive seen this question 100 times on diff forums and they all end the same

Owner spends all extra cash on EXPENSIVE repairs - hates car because its always in the shop - Try's to sell it on the boards but everyone knows why they are selling it - upside down in a car that wont run.

But its your money, Im sure their are exceptions i just haven't seen them.

GrigioX

I'll keep you posted, but no problems so far (). My factory warranty expire in a year or 10k miles. Thankfully they extended my warranty to 6/100k, otherwise i wouldn't have bought it off my lease.

In 3 years i've only had to spend $$ on tires.

GrigioX

Again, you'd have to be keeping the car past the 4yr/50k warranty.

Colin

LOL, the joke on the used car lot is that every warning light on the dash = $1000. Isn't there an Audi mechanic on the TL forum? His tag line is something like "The unreliably of Audi's allows me to own my TL"

cyberbro

Stand out on A4, AWD and Torque!

Stand out TSX, Reliability. You can have the best designed car in the world if it does not make it from point A to point B, why bother!

cyberbro

No they are unreliable! statistically speaking.

SSFTSX

It is true the Audi cost more than Honda in long term. but costs are statistically insignificant to chose one or the other.
This is pretty indepth study of costs that includes Labor.

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/ma...28339010848601

Another way to look at is A4/A5/Q5 (essentally same platform/engine) are selling close 5500 a month in US but u wont find that many in used car lot. Car are very desirable. on the other hand TL/TSX have depreciated quite a bit during the first year. so ur getting hit by depreciation.

ostrich

To me, the ONLY reason to get an A4 is to get the Avant. Otherwise, have you seen how plain and ugly the base "Premium" A4 is? The headlights are ugly, there is no chrome trim around the windows, the rims are just atrocious! And yet, that base model is already more expensive than a loaded TSX, which looks way more modern, sleek and stylish than that base model A4! The Prestige/Premium Plus S-line models are much better looking than the Premium model, but you also are getting into the TL pricing territory for a 4 cylinder thing. Why pay more for less?

Type34

I'd buy the TSX every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I will forever avoid VW/Audi. At a recent party my friends and I (male and female) were discussing recent vehicle purchases and several of them were openly bashing Audi. As a previously disgruntled VW owner who experienced the worst service he'd every encountered from more than one VW/Audi dealership, I joined in the discussion. I was astounded when I tallied up our experiences (I'm not joking here):

• 2001 VW Jetta GLX VR6 - sold after 2 years due to poor reliability and questionable VW service
• 2003 Audi A4 - blown turbo @ 54,000 miles (albeit the car was modified)
• 2006 VW Touareg - returned due to lemon law; lawsuit filed against Volkswagen AG
• 2007 VW EOS - returned due to lemon law
• 2007 VW New Bettle Convertible - returned due to lemon law
• 2008 Audi Q7 - sold after 1 year due to poor reliability and questionable Audi service
• 2009 VW Tiguan - poor reliability, owner looking into lemon law on recurring problem

Make up your own mind, it's certainly your decision...but if you were my family member or close friend, I'd tell you to put on your Nikes and run as far away as possible from any VW/Audi vehicle.

(Obviously everyone has their own experiences, but the list above speaks volumes...and note: we're all from Southern California...Orange and LA Counties).

mltk53

audi a4 has a dominant amount of potential in terms of performance. the interior feel is very similar imo. i think the tsx is better bang for the buck but if you have the money, a fully loaded a4 is pretty badass

mltk53

one thing i must mention is that todays audi's reliability is nothing to worry about. they improved an immense amount

cp3117

You are right as they are both nice cars but we need to know a little more info such as Std or Auto, Fwd or Quattro etc.

The A4 is generally compared to the SH-AWD TL and not the TSX especially if you are comparing 4Cyl engines (better comparison would be a V6 TSX). When you take both for a drive you will see the big difference and realize why the 2.0T is generally compared to its 6Cyl competitors.

It also will depend on your budget unless you can find a FWD Audi to compare equally with the TSX up here in Canada as they are rare. When you factor in the drivetrain that Audi offers, Quattro, options in the packages that Acura doesnt even offer and the quality of materials, you can easily see why there is a $5-$10K difference between the two.

When it comes to reliability its really overblown when people say how unreliable VW/Audi's are. You should check out other forums or just go over to Car Talk here at Acurazine and you will see lots of previous Acura owners who are now Audi owners and will agree that they are very reliable and have great service.

I can tell you personally that VW service here in Canada is outstanding (at least here in Calgary). In 2006 I narrowed my 2 choices down to a Jetta 2.0T and a TSX (which was much more comparable than a Audi) and I can tell you that I am very pleased with The Jetta and its been very reliable.

In the end you narrowed your choices down to two great cars and its really going to depend if you want/need AWD or not and of course your budget....personally I wouldnt hesitate and take the Audi all day long as the price difference IMO is more than worth it.

bjohnston115

I have an 09 tsx tech that i absolutely love, but before her i had an audi a6 and i loved that car as well. I really wanted to get the 09 a4 but for a car with the same options as i have in my tsx i would be paying 300 more a month. I live in NY and the winters can be hit or miss with the snow. Granted the tsx is fwd and i have the 6sp , that quattro audi makes you fee really secure. Used to love zooming past suvs in the snow, that thing was unstopable. Before i have my a6 i had a legend, which im sure you all know is a gorgeous timeless car. The legend went above and beyond my expectations so i have high hopes for acura, and this tsx has some big shoes to fill from my audi a6. All in all, if you have the money in my opinion you cannot beat the germans. Audi all the way if you wallet lets you. Not even just for funtionality but everything is though of. If you have to change something under the hood you look at it and you say " wow thats a clever way to moun this or that etc..". I love my acura but if i had more cash i would love that prestige audi!

katmai

Hopefully if you do have the money to buy a NICE Audi, you also have the money to pay for the expensive repairs if they were to arise. The few people I know that have newer Audis...each says their cars always have something breaking on it. I repeatedly hear "its a good thing its under warranty". I don't know any real statistics, but personally the pleasure I get from owning a car is greatly offset by the number of times the car has to go to the shop. I hear lots of bad new about Audis. I have never heard anyone say its the most reliable car they've ever owned. Thats good enough for me! lol

DerwoodEE

Just some info...

Quote:

2009 Vehicle Dependability Study-Problems per Vehicle

cp3117

^^^ I am not a fan of CR and personally would never use them again after my last car.

Still, good job on finding the numbered stats as this proves that Audi's are very reliable and that most comments about being unreliable are way overblown.

Most people try to make them sound like they are in the shop 6 times a month or that the first pot hole you hit the car will fall apart.

I didnt realize they where that close to Acura's reliability and still above the industry standard. They have really improved over the last 10-15 years.

HeavyDuty

Not looking too good for the Teuton's.

I had my first & last experience with a Bee M Trouble You about 5 years ago. Look at the cluster of European POS's in that CR list.

No offense to anyone who owns one. If you love something or someone, you're willing to overlook any and all shortcomings.

SSFTSX

Acura is at 146 & Audi is at 159. Not a big difference. considering Audi models are 99% AWD and has more customization with turbos.

GrigioX

That first chart is complete garbage. "Predicted" does not = actual reliability.

The second set of info paints Audi in a nice light, if you ask me.

R*D*X*

With the price of a newTSX v6 ill get A4 audi instead....I bought Acura coz its a money saver plus resale value is good, but since TSX increased their price higher than German Car like Audi A4 i will buy Audi.

katmai

I think you still get more features and options in a TSX V6 than you do in a similarly priced Audi A4, no?

SSFTSX

A4 prestige quattro 2.0TFSI is around $40K. Add $1500 Sport package. (19inch rims/Sport suspension/sport seats/steering) or S Line package $2500.
Point is 2010 A4 gives you 3G MMI with HDD navigation/blind spot monitoring/Led lights/smart key/3 zone climate control/better rear camera/better memory functions for driver/better fuel economy/6speed Auto/more boot space/similar performance.
V6 TSX techpackage is $39K. So the price difference is quite small while Audi gives you more car. I agree TSX 4 cylinder is good value but gives less performance than FWD Audi A4 2.0TFSI and price is pretty close.

GrigioX

equally equipped A4 will always cost more.

kristy7911

i personally like the exterior looks of the A4, but like everyone else would not pay several thousand dollars more than what i paid for the TSX. my bf drives an 01 S4, and even though he loves his car he didn't even want me to get a VW because of how expensive repairs are. I love my TSX! and so does he

SSFTSX

My point is the car is not that much overpriced as it seems at first glace. Offcourse options like Drive Select will make it expensive. but it still good handling car with standard quattro and has even better brakes. Edmunds have done long term tests on it. no problem with brakes. which is often the case with first two to three years of Acura. Also tire package get 24month road hazards protection.


http://www.audiusa.com/us/brand/en/o...container=page
When you purchase an Audi 2007 model year or newer vehicle, you have the opportunity to purchase Audi Care. The Audi Care New Vehicle Plan covers the manufacturer-required regularly scheduled maintenance services at:

•15,000 miles
•25,000 miles
•35,000 miles
•45,000 miles
•or 5 years from the original vehicle in-service date, whichever comes first
The Audi Care New Vehicle Plan is also available on model year 2007 and newer Certified pre-owned vehicles (dependent upon vehicle mileage). The cost of the Audi Care New Vehicle Plan is $740 MSRP



http://www.audiusa.com/us/brand/en/o...container=page
http://www.audiusa.com/us/brand/en/o..._packages.html
this pretty big savings if u already own an Audi.
http://www.audiusa.com/us/brand/en/o...container=page
Based on which 2009 Audi vehicle you choose, this loyalty offer extends $500-2,500 towards the lease or $1,000-5,000 towards the purchase of your next Audi vehicle

katmai

Hmmm, if the Audi A4 is so much more car and just as comparable in price, WHY did you guys buy a TSX? Throwing enough money at anything will get you more. At 40k I could buy a light plane. Personally that would be more fun than any A4! I guess I didn't buy my TSX as a performance vehicle. If I wanted something that really handled I would have bought something completely different...and not an A4. lol

SSFTSX

what else you can buy for $40k that has 4cylinder fuel economy, 6cylinder performance with 18inch rims. (TSX 4cylinder is 17inch).

katmai

I think at ~$42k for an A4, a lot of us would have bought an AWD TL or go completely different and get a G37, 370Z, etc etc...instead of a TSX. I think we're starting to talk more about wants than practicality at the 40k price range. I could care less about gas mileage at that point. I bought the TSX for its value at the ~$31k range. At this price point the A4 doesn't compare. At 41k I would have looked into the TL, G37, or even a CTS. In my opinion it doesn't seem like we're comparing apples to apples here.

Anyway the OP was asking about the A4 compared to a 4 cyl TSX...well I think we answered it. The A4 is better....if you pay quite a bit more! Same price, TSX is better, reliablity not withstanding. LOL

SSFTSX

There is cheaper FWD A4 premium plus. closer to TSX price range. for 2010 LED lights are also on Premium Plus. G37 is not refined as Audi and takes alot more fuel. TL is too big.

SSFTSX

Acura has stellear reliability thats why it needs brake maintainance every 20k miles.
u can see Honda Accord has same problem on Edmunds long term tests. No VW/Audi has brake maintainance problems on Edmunds long term test. Infact they did 24000 mile 2005 A4 2.0T without brake job which isnt part of warranty.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...532#durability
Total Body Repair Costs: $250.00
Total Routine Maintenance Costs (over 12 months): $219.69
Additional Maintenance Costs: $242.54 for a tire replacement
Warranty Repairs: None
Non-Warranty Repairs: Rear brake pad replacement
Scheduled Dealer Visits: 2
Unscheduled Dealer Visits: None
Days Out of Service: None
Breakdowns Stranding Driver: None

katmai

The FWD A4 premium plus 4 cyl with 211 hp with NAV as the only option is $37,975 according to their website. No sport package. No manual available unless you get quattro. That adds another $850 to the price.

4cyl=21/27/23 mpg
6cyl=17/26/20 mpg <---4cyl fuel economy? My nissan altima v6 makes more power and gets better gas mileage.

Yes the pads wear out quickly. I just bought ceramics for the front and rear: $113 total

SSFTSX

It is not the hp but low end torque of turbo engine. 2.0T is as fast as 3.7L TL. I am sure lighter FWD will put better numbers on tests. C&D pull 0-60 in 5.7seconds with quattro.
look at 2010 fuel economy numbers. 23/30/26. it must be typo on ther website.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx...Field=Findacar
23 City
26 Combined
30 Hwy

katmai

If you look down your fueleconomy.gov link you'll see those are for the 4 cyl. The only rating I can find for a 6cyl A4 is a 2009 quattro. It lists 17/26/20. 2010 model year doesn't seem to have any 6cyl listed.