Colin

The sports 4 concept is the design study that became the TSX. We already have the production version of this car.

SSFTSX

ES is a heaver car than Camry. so there would be performance/fuel economic loss with same engine as Camry. It was right decsion to create Car size between IS and ES. with price and performance between IS250 & IS350.
I have nothing against TSX design except they should put 18" RIM/Sport bumper/supension like GT version as standard with Tech Package or may be little more like $1000. so it does not require much investment. Just rebadge the Euro GT version.
It is the powertrain/electronics that are outdated. and they arent any good options to keep price below $35K.
Thats true. Currency is part of problem. but there are alot other reasons. There isnt sufficient investment in Acura.

wackura

You should check out the car talk forum.

(Cj)

You're right, but the production version is too big and too bland and doesn't have SH-AWD (yet?).


The TSX design is good, but it can't be taken global because it is essentially just a rebadged Accord. According to rumors the next gen was going to be based on a new RWD platform and take on the 3 series more directly, but now with the rumored cancellation of that project, I wonder if Honda will give the TSX it's own makeover. It would be nice if the TSX had it's own sheetmetal and was like the TL (ie not just a rebadged Accord). I'd like to see them shrink the TSX a bit and give it a standard V6 and optional AWD. Anyway for the near-term (this thread is about the MMC) I think the changes you said are probable.

I think its pretty well known that up until this point there has been very little investment in Acura. What I think is ironic is just when Honda was about to really take Acura to the next level (investing much R&D into new V8s, RWD, flagships, sports cars, etc) the economy tanks and Honda ends up canceling all of those projects essentially leaving Acura in the same place it started.

wackura

How about this for MMC; no more TSX, at least for a while. According to something called "Autocar" http://jalopnik.com/5124682/honda-cu...ement-programs part of Honda's plan is to cut the more unnecessary models and they might do away with the USDM Accord and make the TSX/Euro Accord the new USDM Accord as well. That seems highly plausible to me because the business benefits of having two seperate models for different groups is probably a luxury better afforded during the good times, especially considering they offed the NSX and s2000. Dropping the USDM Accord seems like small potatoes compared to that.

Colin

A lot of these concepts are just mockups and in most cases they are not production feasible. People love to cry about the HSC and wonder why they never made it the next NSX. I've got a friend who has seen it in person, and that car is tiny. Anyone over 5'6" won't fit. The gas tank holds less than 10 gallons. Likewise, the Sports 4 was a very small car. There is no way that could have ever been a production model.

As soon as the TSX came out same as the Accord, I knew that the Acrua brand wouldn't go global within this car's product cycle. This is why I see Tier 1 as a goal for the next cycle and nothing in the immediate future.

wackura

That article also suggest that the tier 1 plan is scrapped because it would require developing RWD and V8's while they would rather spend precious resources on hybrids and the like.

SSFTSX

TSX/RL are rebadged version of global Hondas. Honda simply cannot affor separate car for TSX/RL than rebadged Honda Products.
US market for TSX is too small to justify separate sheet metal.
Even if Separate sheet metal is created. Diesel/Hybrid engines are either too weak or nonexistent to make it acceptable in EU/Asia as performance alternative. They couldnot develop Diesel for Legend despite having more than a decade presence in predominate diesel markets.

The total sales of USDM Accord (Inclusive of Australia/Asia/Middleast/India) are far more than EuroAccord/TSX (Japan/EU/US) Combined.
So there is big Chance of EuroAccord being droped altogether. Even TL sales are more than TSX by twice the margin.
So there is big Chance of TL being Next Global Car as it shares with USDM Accord. Honda just needs V6 diesel/hybrid for its international success. Even RL will being droped altogether as it makes little sense to produce it in high priced yes economic. (yen carry trades are expected to continue).
So we can only hope for MMC in TSX. with updated rims/bumper/electronics with time.
Nothing drastic changes.


Honda has plenty of time in late 90s when Nissan/Infiniti were bankrupt and Audi was nonexistent player in US market. They just blew it up. Now new models coming in next 3 years from Audi/Infiniti have greater chance of success than new Acura (If there are any in pipeline. Both Audi/Infiniti are going to offer Diesel/Hybrids across the line up starting from 2010/2011.

LuvMyTSX

Acura official sends e-mail stating "Tier 1" is moving forward
Date: January 08, 2009 17:19
Submitted by: Jeff
Source: Anonymous
Credibility Rating: 10



We have just received a tip concerning a letter that was allegedly sent to Acura dealers by Jeff Conrad (Vice President of the Acura division) The letter asserts that the rumors concerning the supposed cancellation of development of Acura's future "Tier 1" vehicles is "false". According to our tipster, Conrad essentially states that the NSX successor is dead, but the other plans are moving forward.

Hopefully this rumor turns out to be the one that's true. (Mr. Conrad, please feel free to drop me a line so we can clear all of this up.)

Related Links that are Probably at least Partially Untrue
Autocar: Honda axes high-end models

UPDATE 9:26PM EST: I have now seen a copy of the "letter" (it was actually sent in e-mail form). This rumor is hereby confirmed.

UPDATE 01:49AM EST: Text paraphrasing Mr. Conrad was also revised to reflect actual statements in e-mail.

TOV Link: http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=808157

What this means for the TSX, I wish we knew.

Colin

I can confirm this letter, though I am (obviously) not on the recipient list.

Colin

Just to add, I believe we may see the end of 2009 production soon if not already. We might see 2010 as soon as June and this may mean the V-6

LuvMyTSX

wackura

If they want to be tier 1 they have to add a V6 and AWD at the very least. Anything less might make for a cool car but not tier 1 assuming that means they didn't cut some serious corners. Seeing as they made the TSX the right size to receive both I think the writing is on the wall. What I'm asking myself is what else would they have to do to set up the car to get me to trade in an '09 early.

I've looked at the competition and I still feel far more comfortable with Honda products than any other. I think Acura's position near the bottom of the luxury game has prompted them to take some interesting chances with styling and tech packages.

Colin

Well, there you go! TSX production is over, and the V6 is all but confirmed. The only thing I'm not clear on is the date for new production. I've heard June, but others are reporting August. Of course, we might both be right 'sort of'. If what I heard was really when we order cars, then we would order cars in June, for July production and August delivery. Now I wonder if I am correct in my earlier prediction of the HDD navi from the TL?

wackura

Damnit, I really want a V6 but I don't know that I can justifiy trading in just for that. HD nav doesn't do anything for me. What to do what to do...

LuvMyTSX

I'd wait for the 2nd year of the V6, at the very least. No reason to trade a car that you are happy with and is basically brand new, IMO. It's fun to have the latest stuff, but not worth the cost in most cases.

cmasterchoe

I haven't tried the HDD navi, but is it really that much faster? The navigation OS is in need of a crucial update. It's the same software thats been around since 6,7 years ago.

davidspalding

Simple. I'd sell and buy up ... for a CPO 2GEN TSX with V6 and all the falling-off windshield trim and won't-open gas tan doors and post-combustion fart-pings resolved.

I can wait... My warranty's up in about 3-4 years (longer if I cut down on daily mileage).

Colin

It is faster, but not significantly so. The benefit to this system is the improved screen resolution and space for music storage.

davidspalding

Music? A HDD Navi system sings songs to you? I don't think I want a Broadway musical version of TomTom, thankyouverymuch.

Colin

Ahem, the HDD lets you rip your CDs to the HD. You remember CDs right, they replaced LPs...

wackura

With the USB flash drive receiver the HD seems like something expensive I'd rather nopt believe I'm paying for.

If they create a TSX with a hard drive they had better offer a package that specifically excludes that item.

Colin

You know that's not going to happen. If it comes, it'll be a part of the tech package just like it is in the TL. If I had this system, I'd rip all my classic rock to the HD just to have it if I want it. This leaves more space for newer stuff and podcasts from my iphone or flash drives. I've probably got about 700 CDs, I might want to listen to some of them without having to carry them down to the car...

wackura

Ripping your CDs to your car seems more crude than 8 track. Definately a feature for peoples north of fourty who are not familiar with iTunes or bittorrent and in general don't know what an mp3 is. The TL is and always was aimed at 40y/os so that's cool, but if they pull that business with the TSX they will be jacking up the cost while alienating the target demo.

I assume a V6 would be offered with a 6MT because the whole point of MT and V6 is sportiness, but if they do as the Lexus IS350 does and only offer the more powerful car in automatic I won't be returning to an Acura dealership for a long time.

davidspalding

I've been asleep the last ten years, Colin, help me remember,... were CDs before or after DATs? MiniDISCs? :P

Hehe, kidding aside, that sounds ... intriguing. I've got 4 CDs coming from Amazon, and it'd be slightly more convenient to just play 'n rip 'em on the drive home (like Windows Media Player and other apps do), instead of ripping on my work PC to an MP3 player (e.g. 160GB iPod Classic) to enjoy on the drive.

If the HDD Is sufficiently big (and I hope it'd be under warranty), you could spend a day in your garage ripping all your music. (C'mon. A smart engineer would build in a way to suck albums off your USB attached player/device onto the car's HDD.) ... or just play all your CDs in the car so that they're "copied" locally. Let's see, 700 CDs, 20 daily commute days per month ... wow, in 3 years you'd have most of your CDs on the HDD.

wackura

Most people I know have an iPod or an alternative device. Those who don't eventually will. It's not bad to have a CD player but seeing as they are going the way of cassettes I don't think the car should include a very fancy CD player in its price tag. The 6 CD changer is bad enough, the ripping to hard drive thing is presumably more expensive. There is already a trend to have iPod hookups on clock radios and almost anything else with speakers. That trend will become more generic and more common, probably via USB rather than the proprietary iPod connection. We're just waiting for an actual iPod killer to come along and shift consumers away from that proprietary medium.

LukeaTron

Somewhat unrelated, but speaking of iPod killers, my boss just picked up this thing called a Slacker Radio. I had never heard of it but after messing around with his, I think I might pick one up. It's kind of like a Sirius or XM radio except it gets it's signal via the internet instead of a satellite. You plug it into your computer (it also has wifi) and it loads up the memory with several channels worth of music. From there it behaves just like the XM or Sirius radio. There are buttons to thumb up or thumb down the songs and the next time you pull down music, the way you rated other songs influences what it downloads. It's like a portable version of Pandora if you've ever used that.

Here's the website.

wackura

Yeah, count down the minutes until this is available ubiquitously. Keep your silly CD ripping hard drive stereos.

Colin

Heh, CDs were after DAT but before MiniDisc. Ahhh the Minidisc and Sony's proprietary ATRAC encoding scheme. They could have owned the portable media format if they had caught on to MP3s before Apple.

The HDD system can pull data off the CD faster than real time so it wouldn't take that long. They have specifically prohibited pulling already ripped MP3s off a flash drive. I'm sure this has to do with copywrite protection in some fashion.

As Wackura said, CD is an aging format and the way things are going, it's entirely possible that a CD changer is more expensive than the HDD option. Keep an open mind, it's just one more way to play your media and not a negative.

wackura

1) to hear that the HD won't store mp3s off of a flash stick makes me hate it far more than I could have ever possibly imagined. This means that it will only harbor music you actualy have on a CD or burned to a CD which in addition to being a PITA would cause double compression artifacts (that's bad).

2) faster than realtime -does that mean faster than it plays? That's the very least we should expect. Nobody will wait an hour for a CD to rip. IMO if it's anything north of 60 seconds it's too long. I don't want to be messing with it all day.

There's no such thing as a free lunch. I don't want to pay for a big piece of crap in the dash I have no use for.

Colin

To each his own. I don't think there's any reason to hate it. They will continue to put CD players in-dash for years to come. You probably don't use this either so if you don't like a HD, just don't use it. I've had many customers say they don't want the moonroof in our cars but there isn't any choice in the matter. (other than not to buy the car).

wackura

Ya, those pesky moon roofs, optionaly allowing additional sunlight into our darkened hearts.

Colin

Colin

Not too long now, lets see how well I can guess...

davidspalding

Moonroof? My car has a moonroof? I thought that was for the ejector seat.... I just can't find the little red button.