TSX 2G Midlife Update
#41
Honda Fanboy
I read a news article that VW will go bankrupt because the HS250h will steal all sales from VW. The news article was my imagination.
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silverTL6 (08-26-2018)
#42
Is it still Off Topic if the OP hijacks his own thread?
#43
'find a way'. However, understanding how disappointed they are with the K23, I believe they lack the will.
#45
I was assuming that the SH-AWD would be combined with a powerful V6. The thing I like about the German manufacturers, Lexus and Infiniti is that there is more engine overlap between the different models. For example, I was hoping for a vehicle with the 3.7 L engine and SH-AWD, but with the TSX sheetmetal, sort of like how Infiniti offers the 3.5/3.7 VQ in both the G and M series. I like the TL, but believe that the TSX is a more reasonable size.
#46
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I agree completely though it's not a popular opinion around here. I still think SH-FWD (the computer controlled differential from the SH-AWD system only without the rear half) would be awesome on the Type-S version of this car. They made a Prelude with an earlier version of this system in the late 90's and the reviewers raved about it. They said it made the car feel almost as if it were rear wheel drive. I'd be all over that though I suspect the marketing of such a system would be a tough sell.
#49
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My biggest hope is for i-DTEC with an available 6AT (I'd still get 6MT, but it'd be good to have 6AT as an option), but that one is not looking promising. I also want Honda to bring the advanced safety features like LKAS over.
#50
Senior Moderator
The thing I like about the German manufacturers, Lexus, and Infiniti is that there is more engine overlap between the different models. For example, I was hoping for a vehicle with the 3.7 L engine and SH-AWD, but with the TSX sheetmetal, sort of like how Infiniti offers the 3.5/3.7 VQ in both the G and M series. I like the TL, but believe that the TSX is a more reasonable size.
#51
Most likely, the only way to make such a vehicle profitable would be to price it as a 'one off' and would our customer base respond to a 40K TSX? We all know the answer: They will complain on the forums that "if I'm going to pay 40K for an Acura, I'll go and buy XYZ brand' It is a double edged sword trying to slice open a chicken and egg.
#52
Senior Moderator
I hear what you're saying, but that's never been the Honda/Acura business model. Honestly, I don't know if it should be either. There are enough brands that will allow you to 'option up' the 'small' chassis. Understanding Honda's manufacturing methods, I wonder if could make a 3.7 SH-AWD TSX with a 6MT in a profitable manner?
Most likely, the only way to make such a vehicle profitable would be to price it as a 'one off' and would our customer base respond to a 40K TSX? We all know the answer: They will complain on the forums that "if I'm going to pay 40K for an Acura, I'll go and buy XYZ brand' It is a double edged sword trying to slice open a chicken and egg.
Most likely, the only way to make such a vehicle profitable would be to price it as a 'one off' and would our customer base respond to a 40K TSX? We all know the answer: They will complain on the forums that "if I'm going to pay 40K for an Acura, I'll go and buy XYZ brand' It is a double edged sword trying to slice open a chicken and egg.
#54
I hear what you're saying, but that's never been the Honda/Acura business model. Honestly, I don't know if it should be either. There are enough brands that will allow you to 'option up' the 'small' chassis. Understanding Honda's manufacturing methods, I wonder if could make a 3.7 SH-AWD TSX with a 6MT in a profitable manner?
Most likely, the only way to make such a vehicle profitable would be to price it as a 'one off' and would our customer base respond to a 40K TSX? We all know the answer: They will complain on the forums that "if I'm going to pay 40K for an Acura, I'll go and buy XYZ brand' It is a double edged sword trying to slice open a chicken and egg.
Most likely, the only way to make such a vehicle profitable would be to price it as a 'one off' and would our customer base respond to a 40K TSX? We all know the answer: They will complain on the forums that "if I'm going to pay 40K for an Acura, I'll go and buy XYZ brand' It is a double edged sword trying to slice open a chicken and egg.
#55
Acura's strengths are value, (relatively) high feature content vs. price and excellent reliability. Building cars to order, ala Detroit and the Europeans increases cost and/or lowers quality.
Acura needs to tweek the RDX, bring out a good coupe/convertible and lastly a true flagship. Once these are done, I think most of the 'sins of the past' will be forgotten. Interestingly, our local BMW dealer is looking for a sales consultant but I don't think I'll move. I'm not 100% convinced the grass is really greener.
#56
Blame Americans for the first one and since Acura is (essentially) a NA entity, is it logical that they cater to the domestic market. Look at the G1 TSX. Despite is popularity with the press and public, it sold at most 40K per year at its peak. A drop in the bucket compared to Civics and the larger Accord.
#57
dɐɹɔ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʍ
Is the disappointment with the K23 the engine/driveline or the RDX itself?
#58
Senior Moderator
But you raise a good point. Only answer I can give you is so they can sell more, which I thought was the goal. I'll personally not look at a TSX until a more powerful engine option is added. So for selfish reason's I'd like to see one.
#59
Team Owner
Blame Americans for the first one and since Acura is (essentially) a NA entity, is it logical that they cater to the domestic market. Look at the G1 TSX. Despite is popularity with the press and public, it sold at most 40K per year at its peak. A drop in the bucket compared to Civics and the larger Accord.
#60
Senior Moderator
IMO, there is noting wrong with the basic formula that a little tweeking can't fix.
Acura's strengths are value, (relatively) high feature content vs. price and excellent reliability. Building cars to order, ala Detroit and the Europeans increases cost and/or lowers quality.
Acura needs to tweek the RDX, bring out a good coupe/convertible and lastly a true flagship. Once these are done, I think most of the 'sins of the past' will be forgotten.
#62
Most say production limits. However, I wonder how many more they would have sold had there been no limits? 60K?
No, it doesn't hurt the Accord quality or MDX for that matter. I was specifically referring to the practice of line by line options.
Anyway, enough of Honda production philosophy, we're getting OT again. I have a few price quotes to work on (you know, real work that pays my bills) Aloha!
#64
Probably true, but I have a lot of 'brand equity' in Acura: I've been here for almost 14 years. If I moved, I'd go from being the 2nd most senior to the most junior. If anyone were to start laying off people, I don't want to be the first in line.
#66
Team Owner
^^ since we're kind of OT anyways, Colin, quick question. I would hazard a guess that most of us mainlanders would love to live and work in Hawaii. Where would you love to live?
#67
WTH happened to my garage
Long rambling reply, sorry, been typing all day.
1. Engine-Nope, why would they? (Other than a higher HP Type-S)
2. Transmission-No again.
3. Lighting-Maybe LED tails.
4. Navigation-RPC upgrade available to older year owners.
5. Rims.-Probably on year three.
6 Styling changes.-Grill probably on year three also.
7. Electronics-Pushbutton keyless start would make sense.
As far as the K23, I've asked this several times and can't get a really good answer but most claim Honda's not too thrilled with it. I'm interested in why that is. Is it a bad design with TSB's or recalls or is it an effeciency thing or what?
If you ask me, the TSX has a buttload of room under the hood (albeit *not* on top of the valve cover) for an air/air or air/water inter(after)cooler located in front of or behind the VC.
I wouldn't want to see AWD on this model, but it does look like it's ready made for it which would make sense if "I" (the manufacturer) wanted to reverse engineer it at a later date. To me, it'd be way too much stuff on a car aimed at this segment and would price itself out of the market (whatever market it would be at that point and I'd expect it to have placed itself in the Infiniti, Lex, BMW, or C Class Benz by that time.)
As far as other competitors, I see less of a direct alignment between models and an inability to directly compare the way we used to. The IS250 isn't a direct competitor with a G37 or a TSX on account of the obvious differences with FR4, FR6 and FF4.
#68
#69
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#70
Now add performance and electronics advantage. It will surely sell well.
Put Lexus badge with enhanced style and lighting and Toyota has winner.
People pay $12K more for ES350 but Camry SE looks much better. Thats how powerful is the Lexus brand.
#73
That Avensis is effin ugly. I hope they sell it in the US....Acura could sell more TSXs that way (if its even truly competition).
#74
Make a hole, coming thru!
That Avensis is a confusion of design idears, even more than the 2GEN. It could certainly use a plastic surgery, a haircut, and professional makeover.
I think, not sure, but think our friend is saying the Avensis could be rebadged and upgraded in the US as a Lexus model, as the Euro Accord is here as the TSX, and it would sell well.
I don't concur that people buy Lexus' over Toyos just for the name; a Camry SE's visual appeal over a Lexus ES350 is strictly a matter of personal taste, not consumer buying trends. There is most definitely a value-add with Lexus, consumer satisfaction surveys appear to support that.
I think, not sure, but think our friend is saying the Avensis could be rebadged and upgraded in the US as a Lexus model, as the Euro Accord is here as the TSX, and it would sell well.
I don't concur that people buy Lexus' over Toyos just for the name; a Camry SE's visual appeal over a Lexus ES350 is strictly a matter of personal taste, not consumer buying trends. There is most definitely a value-add with Lexus, consumer satisfaction surveys appear to support that.
#75
2010 HS 250h
Total Hybrid System Horsepower 187 hp
Engine 2.4-liter 4-cylinder
Transmission Electronically Controlled Continuously Variable Transmission
Seating Capacity 5
Width (inches) 70.3
Height (inches) 59.3
Overall Length (inches) 184.8
Wheelbase (inches) 106.3
Drive Wheels FWD
Wheels 17x7.0 w/ P215/55R17 or 18x7.5 w/ P225/45R18 (Optional)
Emissions Rating SULEV
Total Hybrid System Horsepower 187 hp
Engine 2.4-liter 4-cylinder
Transmission Electronically Controlled Continuously Variable Transmission
Seating Capacity 5
Width (inches) 70.3
Height (inches) 59.3
Overall Length (inches) 184.8
Wheelbase (inches) 106.3
Drive Wheels FWD
Wheels 17x7.0 w/ P215/55R17 or 18x7.5 w/ P225/45R18 (Optional)
Emissions Rating SULEV
#77
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The HS250 isn't a rebadged Avensis (like how the TSX is a rebadged rebadged Accord). The relationship between the Avensis and the HS250 is more or less similar to the relationship between the US Accord and TL. What makes the connection between the HS and Avensis even more unique is the different drivetrains.
#78
The HS250 isn't a rebadged Avensis (like how the TSX is a rebadged rebadged Accord). The relationship between the Avensis and the HS250 is more or less similar to the relationship between the US Accord and TL. What makes the connection between the HS and Avensis even more unique is the different drivetrains.
Only difference is hybrid. Europe gets diesel while US gets hybrid. Toyota has finanical resources to offer Separate engine/Enhanced Styling/NVH levels for US market while Honda is simple rebadging. Have u seen 60inch tall car with 0.27 Cd?
Thats why i am skeptical of any claim of TSX getting anything without Euro Accord.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/236886/
The design owes something to the current Lexus line-up, but it clearly caters for American tastes, inside and out. Lexus is keen to point out the low drag factor of 0.27, but even the new Mercedes E-class is more aerodynamically efficient with a drag coefficient of 0.25.
High kit levels are promised, including Lexus's new telematics system. This means that the HS250h will cost more than the slightly smaller base-model IS when it goes on sale.
The design owes something to the current Lexus line-up, but it clearly caters for American tastes, inside and out. Lexus is keen to point out the low drag factor of 0.27, but even the new Mercedes E-class is more aerodynamically efficient with a drag coefficient of 0.25.
High kit levels are promised, including Lexus's new telematics system. This means that the HS250h will cost more than the slightly smaller base-model IS when it goes on sale.
http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ming/#more-839
Mark Templin, the general manager of Lexus, insists that his vehicle is not simply tarted up Prius. “If all you care about is m.p.g., go buy a Prius,” Mr. Templin said in an interview.
What Lexus customers want in their hybrid is the “Lexus experience,” said James Lentz, the president of Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. He and Mr. Templin defined that as a quiet car, filled with the latest technology and creature comforts like heated seats.
Although it does not share a body style with any other Toyota model, Mr. Templin said it has some underpinnings from the Toyota Avensis, a car sold in Europe
Toyota didn’t estimate the HS’s fuel efficiency, but Mr. Templin said it will get better miles per gallon in city driving than the Smart car, which is a fraction of the size of the HS. That’s in the neighborhood of 33 m.p.g. Its price probably also will be in the $30,000-plus range, although Toyota isn’t saying yet what it will cost
Mark Templin, the general manager of Lexus, insists that his vehicle is not simply tarted up Prius. “If all you care about is m.p.g., go buy a Prius,” Mr. Templin said in an interview.
What Lexus customers want in their hybrid is the “Lexus experience,” said James Lentz, the president of Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. He and Mr. Templin defined that as a quiet car, filled with the latest technology and creature comforts like heated seats.
Although it does not share a body style with any other Toyota model, Mr. Templin said it has some underpinnings from the Toyota Avensis, a car sold in Europe
Toyota didn’t estimate the HS’s fuel efficiency, but Mr. Templin said it will get better miles per gallon in city driving than the Smart car, which is a fraction of the size of the HS. That’s in the neighborhood of 33 m.p.g. Its price probably also will be in the $30,000-plus range, although Toyota isn’t saying yet what it will cost
#79
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Relationship is 100% from Exact Wheel base/lenght/width/heigth to CVT transmission
Only difference is hybrid. Europe gets diesel while US gets hybrid. Toyota has finanical resources to offer Separate engine/Enhanced Styling/NVH levels for US market while Honda is simple rebadging. Have u seen 60inch tall car with 0.27 Cd?
Thats why i am skeptical of any claim of TSX getting anything without Euro Accord.
Only difference is hybrid. Europe gets diesel while US gets hybrid. Toyota has finanical resources to offer Separate engine/Enhanced Styling/NVH levels for US market while Honda is simple rebadging. Have u seen 60inch tall car with 0.27 Cd?
Thats why i am skeptical of any claim of TSX getting anything without Euro Accord.
#80
Make a hole, coming thru!