neuronbob

I test drove a TSX wagon Thursday. I have new car itch after three years, so I am doing test drives in cars I like to get rid of the itch. Based on looks, practicality, mileage, mission (low-cost luxury with sporting feel), and price, the TSX wagon is at the top of my list of potential purchases. The dealer I test drove at has a couple of leftover 2011 tech wagons, so really tempting as I can own one for a minimal cash outlay and trade.....thus no car payment for first time in forever. While it might sound crazy to some of you that I am considering a downgrade from a CTS-V that I love and has no problems, I am considering it to make my financial life less complex and to save on fuel costs....want to double retirement savings from current 10%. Besides, if I actually do this, ANY car would be a downgrade in performance from what I have right now. This makes the likelihood of my pulling out and just enjoying my V for another couple of years very high.

With that said, a few comments.....

Driving experience.
--the little 2.4 is pretty gutsy for a 4-banger. There's no torque at all below 1500 rpm, but once you hit 1500, there is quite a pickup. Just like my S2000, you have to keep revving it for decent power. Being a nine-time Honda/Acura owner, I'm quite used to it.
--It was easy to keep up with freeway traffic, especially using the paddles in Sport mode.
--The 5-speed automatic shifted like butter and even though it hadn't programmed itself to my needs, it always "knew" whether to shift up or down.
--The manumatic feature shifted gears snappily. I am surprised at the lack of sluggishness.
--Even so....this wagon sure could use a V6, even a J32. However, that would negate the fuel savings.
--Minimal body lean in the curves. This leads to pretty darned good handling. It's a very balanced car overall and is almost, ALMOST tossable.
--Nice, firm suspension that communicated fairly well through the steering wheel.
--Non-spongy steering.
--Greenhouse is great, similar to the early to mid-90's Accords. It's very easy to see out of.
--Mirrors adjust nicely so I can eliminate blind spots. Who needs blind spot protection when you adjust your mirrors properly? Can't do that in every car, however.
--The only con: the engine sound is just OK. I'd definitely have to purchase an intake. While I fear the loss of power, (which would be the case in ANY car I purchase), I suppose I'd get used to it.

Interior
--Nice clear navi screen, more so than on my RL. The Honda nav system has clearly moved on since my 2006 RL.
--Having driven a 2G RL, I was familiar with the Nav control knob. Implementation is about the same.
--Man are the seats soft and comfortable!
--While the interior is not as upscale as my RL, it is definitely not a penalty box. Plastics are harder than in the RL but this is par for the course in this class of car.
--I am 5'10" and had a good 2.5-3 inches of headroom. Lots of room in the driver's seat.
--WTF about the shock tower intrusion into the cargo space? Atypically poor packaging on Honda's part.
--Nice clear rear view camera. I particularly appreciate the distance markings, which I didn't have in my RL.

Overall, it's a nice, peppy ride with lots of lux features. I drive about 200 miles a week for work, so I'd be filling up twice a month instead of every week....fuel bill cut in half is nothing to sneeze at when you are considering using the extra for retirement/future car savings.

Robert4

Very nice write up! I have a '12 Base TSX and agree with your points. I drive lots of different cars on my job. I really agree with your opinion on the 5sp auto trans. So many automatics these days are set up for fuel economy. They are too quick to grab a higher gear and then only grudgingly down shift. Honda deftly avoids nearly all that and eliminates gear hunting almost totally. I hope their newer 6sp auto keeps up this level of goodness.

mcteague

I bought the non-tech wagon last month. Loving it so far. Your assessments seem pretty much spot on. I am getting 29-30mpg with a fair amount of commuting on the highway.

The odd shaped rear roof line made fitting a dog barrier more of a chore than expected but that is the only real negative. Sure it could use more power but that is not a big deal for me. And, if I routinely carried rear passengers the cramped foot space might be an issue.

It may not have the material quality of a high-end car but it seems pretty impressive to me. The lack of padding on the center console is the only area I really notice it.

Overall I cannot imagine a better choice for me. I value reliability, room for dog\bike\kayak, and fairly fun driving experience. That it looks so nice is icing on the cake.

Tim

ceb

I was going to make virtually the identical post last night after I got home with my new tech wagon but got caught up with something else.

I "downgraded" from a 335ix and have no regrets. For me, the big upside was reliability. I was tired of driving a dealer loaner more than my own car. At 48k miles and two years, my car had gone through. 2 fuel pumps, a vanos solenoid and I currently had a leaking brake Booster that BMW says is "normal" - if it was normal then why didn't the condition exist from new? For some odd reason the car also started to make my cement garage floor burp an oily substance - or I'm destined to be the next Jed Clampett.

A few negative points about the TSX that neuronbob didn't mention because they didn't apply to him.

I'm 6'3" and find the interior a bit cramped. I test drove a TSX sedan for a whole day (about 200 miles) and didn't notice anything like that so it'll just take a while to find the right seat position.

There are two things that I'll miss from my BMW on my daily commute - the blinked that doesn't give you three blinks when you tap it and the auto-braking cruise control. On the BMW, the car brakes (actually downshifts) on downhill grades to keep the preset speed. A digital speed readout would be nice too.

Oddly enough, I doubt that I'll miss the power. I didn't last night on the 50 mile drive from the dealer.

What I will miss is my lighter wallet. My 335 averaged 20.8 mpg over the 48k miles that I owned it. The TSX averaged about 30 mpg on the first 70 miles of my ownership. Fuelly reports from 105 BMW 335 owners that the average is 19.8 mpg so I expect to beat the TSX average of 25.5 without issue. That will make a significant difference on my 100 mile daily drive to and from work.

The dealership is also a vast improvement. They readily matched the online extended warranty price and offered to allow me to dropship winter tires to them and they'd install them for their posted price as they couldn't match the Tirerack pricing. This dealership charges $100 less than the BMW dealership for mounting and roadforce balancing.

Finally, although the sales managers appear to holdover from the 'what do I need to do to get you into a car today?' school of thought, the salesman I dealt with cut through all that bs. If you do your homework first then you can get a killer deal there. If you don't do your homework then you get screwed like anywhere else - that's car sales.

This particular service department is open from 0600 to 2300 every day of the year and always have Acura loaners for services taking more than two hours. They are across the street from a shopping mall that has a Best Buys so guys can easily kill two hours and the mall stores will keep the girls entertained.

TSXy Luster

cool stories guys!

I too was surprised that Acura didn't put a digital speed readout in the car especially since I've gone 90 without realizing it due to the comfiness of the car.

I'm 5'7, so sometimes I actually feel like the seat is too huge and I'm swimming in a pool while driving :p

neuronbob

The transmission makes the small engine tolerable. It was a very pleasant surprise.

I'm getting 14 in the V. While I can easily afford the gas, it will be nice to pass up the gas station.

You don't miss 300 lb-ft at 1500 rpm? That's hope for me, then, I suppose. I'm imagining the mental change I'll have to go through. Passing the gas station and not having a car payment will make up for that somewhat, though.

Cadillacs also have the one-press, three-flash blinkers. None of the other three Acuras I've owned had this feature, either, so I'd get used to it, but would certainly miss it.

The TL and RL have the hill-descent feature of which you speak in the transmission, and have had it for years. I guess that feature didn't make it downmarket to the TSX. Too bad! Again, for the price, I guess beggars can't be choosers.

As far as the dealer....my usual dealer has no wagons at all, while the other dealer in my area has five, including two leftover 2011s, one in my favored configuration and color. If I do this, I'd rather buy at the dealership with stock and service at my usual dealer. Not an ideal situation, but the service at my usual dealer is pretty dang good. I hate to deprive them of a sale, but they can't sell what they don't have.

Digital speedo would be a huge plus. I fell in love with it in my S2000 and Cadillac offers this as well in the CTS. This has kept me out of trouble several times in the V because the speed spools up so quickly. I can't imagine going 90 in a TSX and not noticing it, though!

ceb

I think I had my epiphany last year. I was in Colorado for most of last year and drive a variety of rental cars - usually a month at a time - ranging from a Mazda 3 to a CTS. I had the odd Kia Soul and a Prius too and realized that most were perfectly fine for the daily commute and the smaller engines felt peppier than the larger, more powerful, cars even though they weren't.

Yes, the seat is plenty wide and comfortable but the problem I have is with legroom. The car could use another inch or so of seat travel.

Ken1997TL

My TSX wagon does downshift on hill descents with the cruise on.

ceb

I was actually quite surprised at how deceptive the TSX is at speed. There was a point last night when I was thinking that traffic was going awfully slow - I looked down and I was doing 70 in a 55 - the flow of traffic.

ceb

Really? Not according to the manual.

musty hustla

My 5AT downshifts while going downhill with cruise as well. My previous car would continue accelerating via gravity.

Overall the 5AT does an excellent job maintaining a performance edge to driving. I'm also getting good fuel economy as well. I've been averaging 31-35 mpg. I can't wait to see what a K&N will do.

Ken1997TL

Then the manual is incorrect. Grade logic is working on my car

ceb

Glad to hear that. I regularly drive a downhill where the cops love to sit at the bottom and hand out tickets.

pickler

The biggest fault in TSX wagon is lack 4WD and also a 6 cylinder engine. Something that the Competition Audi A4 Avant, Subaru Outback and Volvo XC70 all offer.

Ken1997TL

Snow tires > AWD or 4WD

ceb

The A4 has a 6 cylinder engine? Aren't the Subject and the Volvo crossovers instead of wagons and don't both get much worse gas mileage?

993RS

I'm on my third week with my new TSX wagon. It replaces my much loved 2009 Audi A4 Avant Sport. I must say that the orignial post did a very nice job of assessing the TSX wagon, good points and not so good. I am a wagon guy, as I am a surfer, kayaker, and cyclist. I think this sport wagon with roof racks has a nice athetic look.
I am very pleased so far, but I also must admit that the Audi was nicer on several fronts: With its lowered sport suspension, AWD and 245/40/18 summer Bridgestones, the steering response and grip in fast corners was far superior. Also, although the Audi turbo 4 only makes 25 more HP, the tourque is much higher and starts to come on at a fairly low RPM. It also had a 6 speed semi auto gear box. The result is the TSX feels pretty anemic to me by comparison and kicks down hard when I accelerate from say 30 mph. I never noticed this in the Audi. Also, the fit and finish of the Audi was superior, and in my opinion the Avant is prettier.
That being said, my loaded up Audi's sticker price was almost 8 grand more than the price of the TSX. Combine that with an excellent deal and a great lease rate and my payments have gone down almost $300 a month! That made it a no brainer for me. I plan on ditching the 17's and getting some RDX wheels and good summer tires (I live in Florida), and that should make cornering (and looks) more comparable to my old car. I may even pop for Eibach springs to stiffen it up and lower it down a bit.

ceb

Yes, the avant is prettier but the TSX is a close second (if you disregard the beak) but if you factor in reliability then the TSX wins hands down. From a financial aspect the only thing more economical might be a Civic.

ceb

Autocorrect will drive me nuts. I meant Subaru of course.

neuronbob

Good to know.

I am in the third winter of daily driving my V. With snow tires and traction control, I have never run into trouble even during significant snowstorms.

I am looking at the Audi A4 as well, but it's a bit over my price range. Audi interiors are , though Acura's interiors (save TSX and RDX) are not that far behind IMHO.

ceb

Audi interiors are undoubtedly the standard of the world but you pay a price for that. Once you add the options to an A4 to match a Tech wagon, then you're at a Premium Plus with navigation with an MSRP of about $44k. The Audi will have some higher tech stuff but that also comes with reliability downsides and lousy dealers in addition to Enterprise loaners and servicing costs that are much higher than those of the Acura.

One thing that I've learned is that only the Japanese have figured out how to do luxury cars.

Here's an example. In 2002 I bought a new Audi S6. It stickered for about $65k. My mom had a 1999 Lexus RX300 that stickered for about $35k. Both dealerships were owned by the same company and shared the same driveway. When my car needed service, I had to argue for a loaner and most often ended up with an Enterprise loaner - often a Chevy Cavalier (or whatever that compact Chevy was called.) When I took my mom's car in for a $50 oil change, I always was handed the keys to a current year Lexus loaner - either a RX or an GS. With my BMW I had a 50/50 chance of getting a BMW loaner or an enterprise Altima or an Impala. When my car was deadlined for almost two months I upgraded a week in from the Altima to a Mini - mainly because the dealer no longer wanted to pay for the Enterprise loaner and they owned a Mini dealership.

993RS

For business reasons I always lease, which takes the long term reliability issue out of the picture. I was also lucky to have a good Audi dealer. I was well taken care of and always got an Audi loaner when needed. So far my dealership experience with Acura has been good, and from what I have read I will be seeing them less than I did the Audi dealer. I am sure the memory of slightly better performance of the Avant will wear off as I get used to the Acura. Besides, I have a weekend sports car to keep me entertained when I feel the need for speed.

neuronbob

I can tell from your user name.

I have my weekend, fair weather driver as well for when I need speed. The S2000 I own free and clear, and will hopefully not leave my possession any time soon.

As far as leasing...I prefer to have the equity. Besides, when I purchased my CTS-V, lease deals were awful. It was actually cheaper to finance, so I did. Turns out to be a good idea, as I can make good use of the equity to avoid debt on this car, should I go through with this.

oblio98

@nueronbob,

Glad you like your TSX Wagon. After a year, I still think mine is great. At times I walk up to it and wonder how I can live with a car that looks so small, but when you get in it, you forget that it's "little".

While I would probably love AWD and a 6 Cylinder, that would trash the gas mileage and probably defeat the purpose of me owning this car.

TSXy Luster

I second that. I remember on my first drive home after picking mine up, I was going 50, but when I wasn't looking at the speedo, it seemed like I wasn't moving at all... even my passengers say the same thing. In a way, I guess the benefit is that I am now always more alert whenever I'm driving lol.

And daaang, you must seat pretty far back since you're that tall.... ah one upside to being short

ceb

There are a few upsides to being shorter - you don't whack your head on lamps

I continue to like the car more and more although I haven't quite found the perfect seating position yet.

neuronbob

Haven't bought yet... fiscally responsible side of me says "do it now while value of V is still high" as my smart 5-year-old who's likely going to an Ivy for college looks at me... and car guy side of me says "400 lb-ft torque at idle...what the hell are you thinking?"

As a car guy, the decision is difficult.
As a generally fiscally responsible person, the decision should be a no-brainer, but see above. . Got a couple months to decide yet.

benben01

I know that feeling all too well. Mine was a little easier to pull the trigger on with the TSX. I had a very fun and fully bolted Mazadaspeed 3. The gas consumption and the 60K I racked up in 2.5 years made it a no brainer to switch over to the TSX. Do I missed the 350 lb/ft of torque to the wheels? Yes.. But the trade off to a smooth riding, comfy, gas sipping sporty sedan with a slick shifting 6spd manual was well worth it. I will definitely keep this car for the kids when they are ready to drive. If the wagon had a manual, I would have jumped on it.

oblio98

Ooops. Gotta read. My bad! (Still, I think you'd be happy with it if you got it)

ceb

I agonized over this decision for literally months. The BMW was a great car when it was fine but it was having the symptoms of another failing fuelpump and I thoroughly annoyed with the local dealers. I considered a 5series but they appear to have major tire/wheel issues (see the current Car&Driver). I strongly considered an E class but trying to find one with xenons was hard enough. Finding one with leather and xenons was nearly impossible and finding one with those two options in a color other than black was impossible.

Had I been looking in summer then perhaps the plastic seats wouldn't have bothered me, but they turn very hard when cold. While BMWs theoretically come with vinyl as well, it is nearly impossible to find one without leather, the exact opposite of Mercedes where it is next to impossible to find a car with leather. It seems their theory is that most buyers won't know the difference.

I've now put a couple of hundred miles on the car and haven't missed the extra power of the BMW.

TSXy Luster

couldn't you have just special ordered the merc/bmw you wanted to the dealer?

Acura_Dude

Waayyy to much money. From what I read it looks like he was shopping used @ the time.

ceb

No, I was looking at new. Mercedes has some killer end of year deals if you know what they are. Interest rates are 1.9% for 5.5years but 1% of that is negotiable so you can get .9% for the 5.5 years. In addition, they had a $4000 conquest bonus so you could easily get $10k or more off MSRP.

The dealer I was working with was looking for a car up to the latest minute - found one but the other dealer didn't want to give it up. By that time it was too late to order. Besides, at that point, how do you negotiate a decent trade for your car?

Sweeney's TSX SptWag

I've had my base Spt Wag since last July. I've been crazy about cars for way too long! Owned all kinds of sports cars including a TR-6, MG,s a 396 Nova, a hoppped Miata, a 59' Austin Bugeye Vintage racer, 99" M3 and a totally tricked out MINI Cooper S. I started looking at the Accord Tourer in Europe several years ago and LOVED it! My daughter has had 2 A4 wagons and currently a Bimmer 3 series X Drive wagon. After comparing the reliability, repair costs and depreciation of the Audi and the BMW and having driven both, I bought the TSX site un-seen! I'd never seen one till the day I picked mine up! I'm lucky enought to have an old Jeep to take the wear and tear of winter, so I can't wait to hit the road for some huge road trips this spring in the TSX. Buy one they are wonderful cars!

Acura_Dude

That is amazing. I've never heard of MB having deals like that. Too bad the other dealer waited to actually give up the car. BTW what were you goin to buy?

ceb

Yep, the deals are great. Probably one reason why the value used drops like a rock.

I was looking for a white or gray E350 with P2 (xenons, keyless, P1 [nav, hgher end audio] window shades) Parktronic (parking sensors) and leather.

I've had a few commutes now in the TSX now and I have no regrets - I'm not missing the power and I'm going to like not having to get gas twice a week.

neuronbob

When I pull up to the gas station, all of Canada (where we get most of our oil) and the entire population of the Persian Gulf states stands up and applauds me for my choice in automobile. I don't even want to think about how much I've spent on gas the last three years, filling up 1-2 times a week. I prefer to think of all the fun times I've had burning that gas.

Sounds pretty unlucky. My CTS-V has so far been more reliable than my 2G RL was. I don't even want to touch the German cars other than, maybe, Audi. They are simply too expensive for what my current financial plans are.

You guys are making me feel better. Seems there are a few car guys here who understand the silly agonizing that goes into giving up a thoroughly enjoyable sports or hi-po car for practical reasons.

I've already started conversing with my usual Acura salesman to see what he can get for me. I'm also crunching the numbers and it looks like I will have to finance a small part of the purchase, less than 1/4 of the cost. I should be able to pay that off in less than a year....which is still less time than I have to pay on the current car. It works if I can get 0.9% financing, which is still being offered by Acura dealers. If I can get a good deal and a good trade on the V, I will probably be a fourth-time Acura owner in a few weeks. If no deal, then I'm happy to keep driving the V for another year, and then I'll start looking at the coming ATS-V (smaller V8, better mileage in theory).

On another note, does anyone have the Acura remote starter for the TSX? That's a useful item for cold climes like Cleveland.

ceb

I've been talked out of the remote start by people here on the boards and by the dealer. The Viper system works better.

BikingDerek

Don't buy the factory remote starter, trust me.

Audioserf

Could you elaborate, please?