My review of TSX Sport Wagon
04-27-2016, 10:01 PM
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My review of TSX Sport Wagon
Long time reader, but I figured I should finally contribute.
I bought my 2012 TSX Wagon w/ Tech (I am the first and only owner) a few years ago, and here's my take. The car is completely stock. I realize this may not be that helpful anymore given that the TSX is dead, but maybe someone in the used market might find it helpful.
First, let me say that my previous car was a 2004 Mazda 3 Hatchback. That was a fantastic car which I still own, and occasionally drive. For better or worse, that is my baseline when I write this.
1. Engine: Great. I never understood what people meant when they say that these Honda engines are fun to rev out, but now I do. I'm pretty sure my old Mazda is actually faster than the TSX, but there's no comparison in terms of enjoyment. I know the TSX Wagon is basically a 9-second car, but it sure feels fun, and it's peppy enough for me. "S" mode is a lot of fun, and I still find myself using it on the highway.
2. Brakes: They suck. Not a big deal, but the Mazda is just way better in terms of feel. The TSX brakes probably feel better than most others in the segment, but my old Mazda just had these really great brakes (in fact, the newer Mazdas lost this).
3. Noise: Not bad. After 35k miles on the stock tires, road noise levels have gone up especially on the highway. I really want to get new tires but the shop tells me I still have a lot of life left on these. Lots of engine noise, but I don't mind that at all.
3. Handling: Pretty good. It's more than I would ever need. I read a lot on these forums about how the stock tires are horrible, but honestly they seem great to me. I've never found the limits, and I never plan to track it. In terms of "feel", it's not as good as the Mazda, but that's not a fair comparison, given how much bigger it is.
4. Cargo Area: Mediocre. If you're looking for a wagon, you're probably thinking about cargo capacity. The TSX Wagon has a lot of room back there, but the one thing that's really annoying is that the wheel wells intrude so far into the cargo area that it makes the car less useful in terms of transporting large items. A recent example: I bought a 60" TV and naively took the TSX to the store. It wouldn't fit because the box is 38" high, and the gap between the wheel wells is only 30". So I literally went home and brought the Mazda 3 hatchback instead, which handled it like a champ. That's pretty crazy, when you think about how much bigger the TSX wagon is. With the seats up, the TSX wagon is great relative to other cars, but with the seats down, it's really not as useful as an SUV (or even a small hatchback apparently).
5. Infotainment / Navi: Great. Contrary to many of the complaints I've seen on this forum, I love this unit. It's definitely not pretty, but it's highly intuitive. I have family that has the latest generation units from Lexus and BMW, and I occasionally drive their cars. Sometimes they even ask me to take their cars for weeks at a time when they travel. I'm always pleased to come back to the Acura unit.
6. Build Quality: Ugh. Rattles are my biggest complaint. There have been so many over the years, some of which I was able to have fixed, and others which I have not. At this point, I've given up. The dealership is actually pretty receptive (to my surprise), but at some point it was just too much of a time sink. Keep in mind I'm not coming from a luxury car. Even now, I notice that my 12 year old Mazda 3 has way fewer creaks/rattles than the TSX.
7. Fuel Economy: Honestly, I couldn't care less. But if you want to know, the on-board measurement says 27 MPG (I've heard that this is probably an overestimate, but I've never done a real measurement). I have found that I can get it up to 28 MPG if I drive conservatively, but 1 MPG is a small price to pay for some fun. It's amazing to me that the difference between grandma style driving and boy-racer style driving is only 1 MPG.
Overall grade: B+. It would be a solid A if not for all the rattles. I've gotten used to the crappy brakes, and the cargo area issues I mentioned are not significant (I don't buy TVs everyday). The rattles really do diminish the perceived quality of the car though. It's not something I expected coming into the Acura brand. Otherwise, the car has been perfectly reliable. Buying a car like a TSX in 2012 meant buying old, but well-tested tech. You can tell that they were really playing it safe, and that's fine with me.
Against the competition: Those who've shopped for wagons know that there isn't much of a choice. When I bought the TSX, Volvo had discontinued the V60. Had I known they were going to bring that back I might have considered it. But I value reliability + total cost of ownership, and Volvos aren't cheap to fix if something goes wrong. The other Euro wagons are way more expensive with the exception of the Jetta. I strongly considered the SportWagen but was leery of VW reliability. Now that the TSX is dead, I wonder if the wagon version in particular will become some kind of hidden gem in the used car market, similar to the Subary GT Wagon from many years ago. If you're looking to spend $10-$20K on a reliable used wagon now, there isn't really much out there. When it comes time to sell the car, hopefully I can get a good price for it.
I bought my 2012 TSX Wagon w/ Tech (I am the first and only owner) a few years ago, and here's my take. The car is completely stock. I realize this may not be that helpful anymore given that the TSX is dead, but maybe someone in the used market might find it helpful.
First, let me say that my previous car was a 2004 Mazda 3 Hatchback. That was a fantastic car which I still own, and occasionally drive. For better or worse, that is my baseline when I write this.
1. Engine: Great. I never understood what people meant when they say that these Honda engines are fun to rev out, but now I do. I'm pretty sure my old Mazda is actually faster than the TSX, but there's no comparison in terms of enjoyment. I know the TSX Wagon is basically a 9-second car, but it sure feels fun, and it's peppy enough for me. "S" mode is a lot of fun, and I still find myself using it on the highway.
2. Brakes: They suck. Not a big deal, but the Mazda is just way better in terms of feel. The TSX brakes probably feel better than most others in the segment, but my old Mazda just had these really great brakes (in fact, the newer Mazdas lost this).
3. Noise: Not bad. After 35k miles on the stock tires, road noise levels have gone up especially on the highway. I really want to get new tires but the shop tells me I still have a lot of life left on these. Lots of engine noise, but I don't mind that at all.
3. Handling: Pretty good. It's more than I would ever need. I read a lot on these forums about how the stock tires are horrible, but honestly they seem great to me. I've never found the limits, and I never plan to track it. In terms of "feel", it's not as good as the Mazda, but that's not a fair comparison, given how much bigger it is.
4. Cargo Area: Mediocre. If you're looking for a wagon, you're probably thinking about cargo capacity. The TSX Wagon has a lot of room back there, but the one thing that's really annoying is that the wheel wells intrude so far into the cargo area that it makes the car less useful in terms of transporting large items. A recent example: I bought a 60" TV and naively took the TSX to the store. It wouldn't fit because the box is 38" high, and the gap between the wheel wells is only 30". So I literally went home and brought the Mazda 3 hatchback instead, which handled it like a champ. That's pretty crazy, when you think about how much bigger the TSX wagon is. With the seats up, the TSX wagon is great relative to other cars, but with the seats down, it's really not as useful as an SUV (or even a small hatchback apparently).
5. Infotainment / Navi: Great. Contrary to many of the complaints I've seen on this forum, I love this unit. It's definitely not pretty, but it's highly intuitive. I have family that has the latest generation units from Lexus and BMW, and I occasionally drive their cars. Sometimes they even ask me to take their cars for weeks at a time when they travel. I'm always pleased to come back to the Acura unit.
6. Build Quality: Ugh. Rattles are my biggest complaint. There have been so many over the years, some of which I was able to have fixed, and others which I have not. At this point, I've given up. The dealership is actually pretty receptive (to my surprise), but at some point it was just too much of a time sink. Keep in mind I'm not coming from a luxury car. Even now, I notice that my 12 year old Mazda 3 has way fewer creaks/rattles than the TSX.
7. Fuel Economy: Honestly, I couldn't care less. But if you want to know, the on-board measurement says 27 MPG (I've heard that this is probably an overestimate, but I've never done a real measurement). I have found that I can get it up to 28 MPG if I drive conservatively, but 1 MPG is a small price to pay for some fun. It's amazing to me that the difference between grandma style driving and boy-racer style driving is only 1 MPG.
Overall grade: B+. It would be a solid A if not for all the rattles. I've gotten used to the crappy brakes, and the cargo area issues I mentioned are not significant (I don't buy TVs everyday). The rattles really do diminish the perceived quality of the car though. It's not something I expected coming into the Acura brand. Otherwise, the car has been perfectly reliable. Buying a car like a TSX in 2012 meant buying old, but well-tested tech. You can tell that they were really playing it safe, and that's fine with me.
Against the competition: Those who've shopped for wagons know that there isn't much of a choice. When I bought the TSX, Volvo had discontinued the V60. Had I known they were going to bring that back I might have considered it. But I value reliability + total cost of ownership, and Volvos aren't cheap to fix if something goes wrong. The other Euro wagons are way more expensive with the exception of the Jetta. I strongly considered the SportWagen but was leery of VW reliability. Now that the TSX is dead, I wonder if the wagon version in particular will become some kind of hidden gem in the used car market, similar to the Subary GT Wagon from many years ago. If you're looking to spend $10-$20K on a reliable used wagon now, there isn't really much out there. When it comes time to sell the car, hopefully I can get a good price for it.
04-28-2016, 09:48 PM
#2
I think its a very cool niche market vehicle that should hold value very well, as compared to the sedan.. I really wish they would have offered them in a manual trans.
The impractical child version of me wishes they offered it with the RDX K23 turbo drivetrain in manual.
Ours doesn't have any rattles. The glove box shelf used to rattle...but its been fixed. The booming noise from the back as you go over bumps is pretty loud, though. This is characteristic of wagons/SUV's/vans. But I feel like its pretty pronounced in the TSX wagon.
The impractical child version of me wishes they offered it with the RDX K23 turbo drivetrain in manual.
Ours doesn't have any rattles. The glove box shelf used to rattle...but its been fixed. The booming noise from the back as you go over bumps is pretty loud, though. This is characteristic of wagons/SUV's/vans. But I feel like its pretty pronounced in the TSX wagon.
04-28-2016, 10:03 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
2012 TSX Wagon base model here. Use 93 octane, get on the paddles, and empty your trunk and you'll find this wagon closer to an 8.2 second car.
Only 1/2 joking about emptying the trunk. But the paddles make a difference.
Only 1/2 joking about emptying the trunk. But the paddles make a difference.
04-28-2016, 10:16 PM
#4
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I forgot about that. That gave me headaches for the first couple weeks of ownership. It is indeed very pronounced. You get that weird feeling like you need to "pop" your ears as though you're in an airplane. I eventually got used to it and it doesn't bother me anymore, but I agree it was pretty bad.
04-29-2016, 10:46 AM
#5
I think its a very cool niche market vehicle that should hold value very well, as compared to the sedan.. I really wish they would have offered them in a manual trans.
The impractical child version of me wishes they offered it with the RDX K23 turbo drivetrain in manual.
Ours doesn't have any rattles. The glove box shelf used to rattle...but its been fixed. The booming noise from the back as you go over bumps is pretty loud, though. This is characteristic of wagons/SUV's/vans. But I feel like its pretty pronounced in the TSX wagon.
The impractical child version of me wishes they offered it with the RDX K23 turbo drivetrain in manual.
Ours doesn't have any rattles. The glove box shelf used to rattle...but its been fixed. The booming noise from the back as you go over bumps is pretty loud, though. This is characteristic of wagons/SUV's/vans. But I feel like its pretty pronounced in the TSX wagon.
04-29-2016, 12:50 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
I just traded my 2005 RSX on a 2012 TSX Sportwagon base model with about 27k and in excellent condition. Love the old school Honda tech, the relatively agile handling and the smooth 2.4 engine. I have just one rattle, and the dealer is providing me a loaner to fix it. After 4 weeks, I really like this Acura.
As for rattles, my wagon is pretty solid. One minor rattle I found was when someone is sitting behind the driver. I found there was too much play in the seat's locking mechanism and a little felt fixed that. Fold the back seat down and insert enough felt in the lock loop until the rattle disappears. I've attached photos.
04-29-2016, 02:35 PM
#7
Going from RSX to TSX Wagon seems like a natural progression. I think the lineage is Integra -> RSX -> TSX -> TSX Wagon.
As for rattles, my wagon is pretty solid. One minor rattle I found was when someone is sitting behind the driver. I found there was too much play in the seat's locking mechanism and a little felt fixed that. Fold the back seat down and insert enough felt in the lock loop until the rattle disappears. I've attached photos.
Attachment 36181
Attachment 36182
As for rattles, my wagon is pretty solid. One minor rattle I found was when someone is sitting behind the driver. I found there was too much play in the seat's locking mechanism and a little felt fixed that. Fold the back seat down and insert enough felt in the lock loop until the rattle disappears. I've attached photos.
Attachment 36181
Attachment 36182
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04-30-2016, 10:32 AM
#8
I compare my 2014 Base wagon to my previous 2007 A3 S-line.
The steering wheel in the Audi is just so much better. I'd like to upgrade the Acura wheel but it's more money than I want to spend.
Stereo sounds better and this is my first car with bluetooth, which I love.
Seats are more comfortable.
Cargo is longer but not much wider.
Audi was chipped and manual box so it was faster and a better handler. Much more fun to drive.
I get 29.6 avg based on premium fillups. Computer reports 31+ avg Abount 0.5mpg better than the Audi.
At 100,000 I had 0 rattles in the Audi. At 30,000 miles I have a rattle when the rear seats are down and an occaisional one from the passenger seat area that I haven't bothered with.
I miss the little Audi, but I'm happy with the TSX.
The steering wheel in the Audi is just so much better. I'd like to upgrade the Acura wheel but it's more money than I want to spend.
Stereo sounds better and this is my first car with bluetooth, which I love.
Seats are more comfortable.
Cargo is longer but not much wider.
Audi was chipped and manual box so it was faster and a better handler. Much more fun to drive.
I get 29.6 avg based on premium fillups. Computer reports 31+ avg Abount 0.5mpg better than the Audi.
At 100,000 I had 0 rattles in the Audi. At 30,000 miles I have a rattle when the rear seats are down and an occaisional one from the passenger seat area that I haven't bothered with.
I miss the little Audi, but I'm happy with the TSX.
04-30-2016, 09:41 PM
#9
My experience is opposite of yours
Mine is solid and no rattle.
However infotainment sucks . Back up camera is from 1988. Newer acuras aren't much better. Our Lexus cars have way better nav and camera
Otherwise we love the wagon
Mine is solid and no rattle.
However infotainment sucks . Back up camera is from 1988. Newer acuras aren't much better. Our Lexus cars have way better nav and camera
Otherwise we love the wagon
05-01-2016, 12:12 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Heh... we all definitely drive Honda old school tech. 
And love it!
I never noticed a booming noise going over bumps... guess I don't know what to listen for. I have the OEM all-weather mat back there so maybe it's dampening the boom.
And love it!I never noticed a booming noise going over bumps... guess I don't know what to listen for. I have the OEM all-weather mat back there so maybe it's dampening the boom.
05-01-2016, 01:22 PM
#11
Null and proud of it
I actually have an RDX K23 turbo...
That being said I really like the K24...
I used to have a 2007 Kia Sportage I poured my heart and sole into, so I wasn't happy after someone ran a light back in January...
Had a 2016 Camry SE rental, that thing was zippy, almost a good as the K24 in the 2004 Honda Accord we drove back in October...
The RDX doesn't do the high rpm pull... You know, the squeezed into the seat feeling at 5k rpm... It's fast after the turbo kicks, then it's a flat torque curve, so you basically feel nothing...
I've noticed this on other Honda V6s...
The 2.5 rental Camry felt quite a bit faster in a way...
I like slightly underpowered vehicles as I'm used to kicking down to first or second gear, oh, I had an intake on the Kia...
I miss being able to hit 5-6k rpm without going 50 mph...
Also the RDX hamdles a little too well...
I can't push its limits without going too fast to think...
How does the TSX feel? I've always loved them...
Sorry to post so long...
That being said I really like the K24...
I used to have a 2007 Kia Sportage I poured my heart and sole into, so I wasn't happy after someone ran a light back in January...
Had a 2016 Camry SE rental, that thing was zippy, almost a good as the K24 in the 2004 Honda Accord we drove back in October...
The RDX doesn't do the high rpm pull... You know, the squeezed into the seat feeling at 5k rpm... It's fast after the turbo kicks, then it's a flat torque curve, so you basically feel nothing...
I've noticed this on other Honda V6s...
The 2.5 rental Camry felt quite a bit faster in a way...
I like slightly underpowered vehicles as I'm used to kicking down to first or second gear, oh, I had an intake on the Kia...
I miss being able to hit 5-6k rpm without going 50 mph...
Also the RDX hamdles a little too well...
I can't push its limits without going too fast to think...
How does the TSX feel? I've always loved them...
Sorry to post so long...
Last edited by Midnight Mystery; 05-01-2016 at 01:28 PM. Reason: Wanted to include something...
05-01-2016, 03:10 PM
#12
Going from RSX to TSX Wagon seems like a natural progression. I think the lineage is Integra -> RSX -> TSX -> TSX Wagon.
As for rattles, my wagon is pretty solid. One minor rattle I found was when someone is sitting behind the driver. I found there was too much play in the seat's locking mechanism and a little felt fixed that. Fold the back seat down and insert enough felt in the lock loop until the rattle disappears. I've attached photos.
Attachment 36181
Attachment 36182
As for rattles, my wagon is pretty solid. One minor rattle I found was when someone is sitting behind the driver. I found there was too much play in the seat's locking mechanism and a little felt fixed that. Fold the back seat down and insert enough felt in the lock loop until the rattle disappears. I've attached photos.
Attachment 36181
Attachment 36182
05-01-2016, 03:12 PM
#13
My dealer traced the rattle to the lining near the B pillar near the left side passenger door. Only really crops up in cool weather going over bumps. Otherwise, this is the best assembled Honda I have owned since my first Prelude back in 1983. I love the feeling of exclusivity....so few out there on the road.
05-02-2016, 06:57 AM
#14
I actually have an RDX K23 turbo...
That being said I really like the K24...
I used to have a 2007 Kia Sportage I poured my heart and sole into, so I wasn't happy after someone ran a light back in January...
Had a 2016 Camry SE rental, that thing was zippy, almost a good as the K24 in the 2004 Honda Accord we drove back in October...
The RDX doesn't do the high rpm pull... You know, the squeezed into the seat feeling at 5k rpm... It's fast after the turbo kicks, then it's a flat torque curve, so you basically feel nothing...
I've noticed this on other Honda V6s...
The 2.5 rental Camry felt quite a bit faster in a way...
I like slightly underpowered vehicles as I'm used to kicking down to first or second gear, oh, I had an intake on the Kia...
I miss being able to hit 5-6k rpm without going 50 mph...
Also the RDX hamdles a little too well...
I can't push its limits without going too fast to think...
How does the TSX feel? I've always loved them...
Sorry to post so long...
That being said I really like the K24...
I used to have a 2007 Kia Sportage I poured my heart and sole into, so I wasn't happy after someone ran a light back in January...
Had a 2016 Camry SE rental, that thing was zippy, almost a good as the K24 in the 2004 Honda Accord we drove back in October...
The RDX doesn't do the high rpm pull... You know, the squeezed into the seat feeling at 5k rpm... It's fast after the turbo kicks, then it's a flat torque curve, so you basically feel nothing...
I've noticed this on other Honda V6s...
The 2.5 rental Camry felt quite a bit faster in a way...
I like slightly underpowered vehicles as I'm used to kicking down to first or second gear, oh, I had an intake on the Kia...
I miss being able to hit 5-6k rpm without going 50 mph...
Also the RDX hamdles a little too well...
I can't push its limits without going too fast to think...
How does the TSX feel? I've always loved them...
Sorry to post so long...
An automatic K24 sedan is unbelievably slow. Almost as slow as a 4cyl Camry. Not sure why or how it felt fast for you. The wagon is even slower than the sedan because it weighs some 150+LB more.
The K24 in the TSX has some good initial torque that inspires confidence until you reach about 30-40ish MPH in 1st gear. Good enough for the stoplight derby. And because the engine likes to rev, it feels good doing this. But...try passing someone past 50mph. Different story.
Maybe the RDX didn't quite feel that peppy off the line for you because of the 3900LB curb weight, AWD, and slight turbo lag.
Feel or not feel, the 1G RDX probably runs mid 14 second quarter miles.
The 2G automatic TSX is abysmally slow. 16 or 17 seconds wouldn't surprise me.
The TSX in any iteration handles better than the RDX. But the RDX's suspension was very stiff for an SUV. I'm also not sure what you mean by "handled too well". By definition...you can't really explore any car's limit on the street without putting yourself in danger.
The stock suspension on the RDX was too harsh, and I'm not sure what could be done about that. At least the TSX has known aftermarket options to make it ride nicer.
However, both cars have tons of great character and charm. They're both really fantastic cars overall...and are as good to drive as they are to own. What I mean by that is...in comparison, a camry is a good car to ride in...or just a "good car" overall. But its not a good car to DRIVE. Its actually pretty awful to drive....and there's nothing remarkable about it. Its pretty much an appliance that you can drive.
I don't like any of the "affordable" SUV's, pretty much as a rule. But I made an exception for the 1G RDX. It drives very much like a car.
Even so; I still prefer the lower-to-the-road seating position and road feel of the TSX. Double wishbone suspension, good chassis, nice fat steering wheel, etc. Even with the RDX's tightness, I never really felt that I had a hold of it as completely as the TSX. Even though the TSX is a big boring car....it feels very confident.
As far as an insight to myself....
I am virtually incapable of driving an automatic trans car every day. So I am not the primary driver on our wagon. Although, I think that within the realm of reality, the wagon is the only automatic car that I *might* be able to stomach as a day-to-day driver (I would never ever consider an automatic TSX sedan). I *may* also be able to stomach a RDX if it didn't get such awful MPG. Again, both have lots of great character. Both have good chassis dynamics (the TSX is better in this respect by far).
But...I think that my "no automatics" exception for both comes because I have a S2000 that I drive for most of the summer. I absolutely could not have either the wagon or RDX as an ONLY car. If I had to have one car...it would likely be a M3.
Last edited by BROlando; 05-02-2016 at 07:03 AM.
05-02-2016, 03:52 PM
#15
An automatic K24 sedan is unbelievably slow. Almost as slow as a 4cyl Camry. Not sure why or how it felt fast for you. The wagon is even slower than the sedan because it weighs some 150+LB more.
The K24 in the TSX has some good initial torque that inspires confidence until you reach about 30-40ish MPH in 1st gear. Good enough for the stoplight derby. And because the engine likes to rev, it feels good doing this. But...try passing someone past 50mph. Different story.
Maybe the RDX didn't quite feel that peppy off the line for you because of the 3900LB curb weight, AWD, and slight turbo lag.
Feel or not feel, the 1G RDX probably runs mid 14 second quarter miles.
The 2G automatic TSX is abysmally slow. 16 or 17 seconds wouldn't surprise me.
The TSX in any iteration handles better than the RDX. But the RDX's suspension was very stiff for an SUV. I'm also not sure what you mean by "handled too well". By definition...you can't really explore any car's limit on the street without putting yourself in danger.
The stock suspension on the RDX was too harsh, and I'm not sure what could be done about that. At least the TSX has known aftermarket options to make it ride nicer.
However, both cars have tons of great character and charm. They're both really fantastic cars overall...and are as good to drive as they are to own. What I mean by that is...in comparison, a camry is a good car to ride in...or just a "good car" overall. But its not a good car to DRIVE. Its actually pretty awful to drive....and there's nothing remarkable about it. Its pretty much an appliance that you can drive.
I don't like any of the "affordable" SUV's, pretty much as a rule. But I made an exception for the 1G RDX. It drives very much like a car.
Even so; I still prefer the lower-to-the-road seating position and road feel of the TSX. Double wishbone suspension, good chassis, nice fat steering wheel, etc. Even with the RDX's tightness, I never really felt that I had a hold of it as completely as the TSX. Even though the TSX is a big boring car....it feels very confident.
As far as an insight to myself....
I am virtually incapable of driving an automatic trans car every day. So I am not the primary driver on our wagon. Although, I think that within the realm of reality, the wagon is the only automatic car that I *might* be able to stomach as a day-to-day driver (I would never ever consider an automatic TSX sedan). I *may* also be able to stomach a RDX if it didn't get such awful MPG. Again, both have lots of great character. Both have good chassis dynamics (the TSX is better in this respect by far).
But...I think that my "no automatics" exception for both comes because I have a S2000 that I drive for most of the summer. I absolutely could not have either the wagon or RDX as an ONLY car. If I had to have one car...it would likely be a M3.
The K24 in the TSX has some good initial torque that inspires confidence until you reach about 30-40ish MPH in 1st gear. Good enough for the stoplight derby. And because the engine likes to rev, it feels good doing this. But...try passing someone past 50mph. Different story.
Maybe the RDX didn't quite feel that peppy off the line for you because of the 3900LB curb weight, AWD, and slight turbo lag.
Feel or not feel, the 1G RDX probably runs mid 14 second quarter miles.
The 2G automatic TSX is abysmally slow. 16 or 17 seconds wouldn't surprise me.
The TSX in any iteration handles better than the RDX. But the RDX's suspension was very stiff for an SUV. I'm also not sure what you mean by "handled too well". By definition...you can't really explore any car's limit on the street without putting yourself in danger.
The stock suspension on the RDX was too harsh, and I'm not sure what could be done about that. At least the TSX has known aftermarket options to make it ride nicer.
However, both cars have tons of great character and charm. They're both really fantastic cars overall...and are as good to drive as they are to own. What I mean by that is...in comparison, a camry is a good car to ride in...or just a "good car" overall. But its not a good car to DRIVE. Its actually pretty awful to drive....and there's nothing remarkable about it. Its pretty much an appliance that you can drive.
I don't like any of the "affordable" SUV's, pretty much as a rule. But I made an exception for the 1G RDX. It drives very much like a car.
Even so; I still prefer the lower-to-the-road seating position and road feel of the TSX. Double wishbone suspension, good chassis, nice fat steering wheel, etc. Even with the RDX's tightness, I never really felt that I had a hold of it as completely as the TSX. Even though the TSX is a big boring car....it feels very confident.
As far as an insight to myself....
I am virtually incapable of driving an automatic trans car every day. So I am not the primary driver on our wagon. Although, I think that within the realm of reality, the wagon is the only automatic car that I *might* be able to stomach as a day-to-day driver (I would never ever consider an automatic TSX sedan). I *may* also be able to stomach a RDX if it didn't get such awful MPG. Again, both have lots of great character. Both have good chassis dynamics (the TSX is better in this respect by far).
But...I think that my "no automatics" exception for both comes because I have a S2000 that I drive for most of the summer. I absolutely could not have either the wagon or RDX as an ONLY car. If I had to have one car...it would likely be a M3.
The TSX is very fast compared to a Yugo or Trabant but slow compared a Corvette.
In recent years I've had an Audi S6, GTI, R32 and a 335xi. While the TSX wagon may not be as "fast" as any of them, it is a quite satisfying ride and I've never been in a position where I said "Scotty, I need more power".
05-02-2016, 04:04 PM
#16
Sure. And a rocket is slow compared to a ray of light.
Between the years of 2009 thru 2014, I would say that almost all of the TSX's competitors were faster/more powerful in comparison.
It is also incredibly slow as compared to a RDX. The other person was wondering how the TSX compared to an RDX.
I think the statements were all pretty relative.
16 or 17 sec quarters are also quantifiable. An automatic 2G 4cyl TSX is about as fast as a 92 Honda Civic DX, to put things into perspective.
Some people may not mind. As I mentioned, the torque band does well to get the car moving off the line. Sustaining that movement is the issue. 0-40 isn't bad. Passing at 50+ takes a while.
Between the years of 2009 thru 2014, I would say that almost all of the TSX's competitors were faster/more powerful in comparison.
It is also incredibly slow as compared to a RDX. The other person was wondering how the TSX compared to an RDX.
I think the statements were all pretty relative.
16 or 17 sec quarters are also quantifiable. An automatic 2G 4cyl TSX is about as fast as a 92 Honda Civic DX, to put things into perspective.
Some people may not mind. As I mentioned, the torque band does well to get the car moving off the line. Sustaining that movement is the issue. 0-40 isn't bad. Passing at 50+ takes a while.
Last edited by BROlando; 05-02-2016 at 04:11 PM.
05-02-2016, 06:59 PM
#17
Sure. And a rocket is slow compared to a ray of light.
Between the years of 2009 thru 2014, I would say that almost all of the TSX's competitors were faster/more powerful in comparison.
It is also incredibly slow as compared to a RDX. The other person was wondering how the TSX compared to an RDX.
I think the statements were all pretty relative.
16 or 17 sec quarters are also quantifiable. An automatic 2G 4cyl TSX is about as fast as a 92 Honda Civic DX, to put things into perspective.
Some people may not mind. As I mentioned, the torque band does well to get the car moving off the line. Sustaining that movement is the issue. 0-40 isn't bad. Passing at 50+ takes a while.
Between the years of 2009 thru 2014, I would say that almost all of the TSX's competitors were faster/more powerful in comparison.
It is also incredibly slow as compared to a RDX. The other person was wondering how the TSX compared to an RDX.
I think the statements were all pretty relative.
16 or 17 sec quarters are also quantifiable. An automatic 2G 4cyl TSX is about as fast as a 92 Honda Civic DX, to put things into perspective.
Some people may not mind. As I mentioned, the torque band does well to get the car moving off the line. Sustaining that movement is the issue. 0-40 isn't bad. Passing at 50+ takes a while.
Honda's racing heritage, by the way, has never been about stoplight racing. So far, I find that the little wagon has no problem passing and merging, and it sounds cool doing it. I dig that there are so few of them on the road.
05-02-2016, 07:50 PM
#18
05-02-2016, 08:47 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
...
The TSX in any iteration handles better than the RDX. But the RDX's suspension was very stiff for an SUV. I'm also not sure what you mean by "handled too well". By definition...you can't really explore any car's limit on the street without putting yourself in danger.
The stock suspension on the RDX was too harsh, and I'm not sure what could be done about that. At least the TSX has known aftermarket options to make it ride nicer.
...
The TSX in any iteration handles better than the RDX. But the RDX's suspension was very stiff for an SUV. I'm also not sure what you mean by "handled too well". By definition...you can't really explore any car's limit on the street without putting yourself in danger.
The stock suspension on the RDX was too harsh, and I'm not sure what could be done about that. At least the TSX has known aftermarket options to make it ride nicer.
...
The TSX, with its double wishbones and by sitting lower to the ground, will out-handle the RDX. The RDX, with its turbo, will be faster in a straight line. The story I've read is that the first gen RDX was targeted for previous owners of the Integra. They've grown up, but still want to have fun, and hence, the hard suspension (struts), the turbo, and the terrier personality. But it didn't sell well and the second gen RDX was equipped with the smoother and more refined V6.
The S2000 is a brilliant car! But test and exceed the limits of the AP1, and it will bite you. I find myself lusting after the new Miata.
05-02-2016, 08:57 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
But 7!! That means, you sir, are surrounded by good taste!
05-02-2016, 09:16 PM
#21
AP1's are tempramental. I've had mine for 10 years. Fantastic car. I don't foresee ever getting rid of it.
As far as the rareness comments go...I still think the wagon is a bit rare. People compliment ours all the time and say "I didn't know they made those!"
And to address other comments about rev happiness...yes. The TSX does rev very gracefully. I've been driving Hondas for so long that I take it for granted how smooth the car is...despite it having a 2.4L 4cyl. Even though the K24Z3 is so docile...it has some K20A DNA in it.
05-03-2016, 12:51 AM
#22
Null and proud of it
An automatic K24 sedan is unbelievably slow. Almost as slow as a 4cyl Camry. Not sure why or how it felt fast for you. The wagon is even slower than the sedan because it weighs some 150+LB more.
The K24 in the TSX has some good initial torque that inspires confidence until you reach about 30-40ish MPH in 1st gear. Good enough for the stoplight derby. And because the engine likes to rev, it feels good doing this. But...try passing someone past 50mph. Different story.
Maybe the RDX didn't quite feel that peppy off the line for you because of the 3900LB curb weight, AWD, and slight turbo lag.
Feel or not feel, the 1G RDX probably runs mid 14 second quarter miles.
The 2G automatic TSX is abysmally slow. 16 or 17 seconds wouldn't surprise me.
The TSX in any iteration handles better than the RDX. But the RDX's suspension was very stiff for an SUV. I'm also not sure what you mean by "handled too well". By definition...you can't really explore any car's limit on the street without putting yourself in danger.
The stock suspension on the RDX was too harsh, and I'm not sure what could be done about that. At least the TSX has known aftermarket options to make it ride nicer.
However, both cars have tons of great character and charm. They're both really fantastic cars overall...and are as good to drive as they are to own. What I mean by that is...in comparison, a camry is a good car to ride in...or just a "good car" overall. But its not a good car to DRIVE. Its actually pretty awful to drive....and there's nothing remarkable about it. Its pretty much an appliance that you can drive.
I don't like any of the "affordable" SUV's, pretty much as a rule. But I made an exception for the 1G RDX. It drives very much like a car.
Even so; I still prefer the lower-to-the-road seating position and road feel of the TSX. Double wishbone suspension, good chassis, nice fat steering wheel, etc. Even with the RDX's tightness, I never really felt that I had a hold of it as completely as the TSX. Even though the TSX is a big boring car....it feels very confident.
As far as an insight to myself....
I am virtually incapable of driving an automatic trans car every day. So I am not the primary driver on our wagon. Although, I think that within the realm of reality, the wagon is the only automatic car that I *might* be able to stomach as a day-to-day driver (I would never ever consider an automatic TSX sedan). I *may* also be able to stomach a RDX if it didn't get such awful MPG. Again, both have lots of great character. Both have good chassis dynamics (the TSX is better in this respect by far).
But...I think that my "no automatics" exception for both comes because I have a S2000 that I drive for most of the summer. I absolutely could not have either the wagon or RDX as an ONLY car. If I had to have one car...it would likely be a M3.
The K24 in the TSX has some good initial torque that inspires confidence until you reach about 30-40ish MPH in 1st gear. Good enough for the stoplight derby. And because the engine likes to rev, it feels good doing this. But...try passing someone past 50mph. Different story.
Maybe the RDX didn't quite feel that peppy off the line for you because of the 3900LB curb weight, AWD, and slight turbo lag.
Feel or not feel, the 1G RDX probably runs mid 14 second quarter miles.
The 2G automatic TSX is abysmally slow. 16 or 17 seconds wouldn't surprise me.
The TSX in any iteration handles better than the RDX. But the RDX's suspension was very stiff for an SUV. I'm also not sure what you mean by "handled too well". By definition...you can't really explore any car's limit on the street without putting yourself in danger.
The stock suspension on the RDX was too harsh, and I'm not sure what could be done about that. At least the TSX has known aftermarket options to make it ride nicer.
However, both cars have tons of great character and charm. They're both really fantastic cars overall...and are as good to drive as they are to own. What I mean by that is...in comparison, a camry is a good car to ride in...or just a "good car" overall. But its not a good car to DRIVE. Its actually pretty awful to drive....and there's nothing remarkable about it. Its pretty much an appliance that you can drive.
I don't like any of the "affordable" SUV's, pretty much as a rule. But I made an exception for the 1G RDX. It drives very much like a car.
Even so; I still prefer the lower-to-the-road seating position and road feel of the TSX. Double wishbone suspension, good chassis, nice fat steering wheel, etc. Even with the RDX's tightness, I never really felt that I had a hold of it as completely as the TSX. Even though the TSX is a big boring car....it feels very confident.
As far as an insight to myself....
I am virtually incapable of driving an automatic trans car every day. So I am not the primary driver on our wagon. Although, I think that within the realm of reality, the wagon is the only automatic car that I *might* be able to stomach as a day-to-day driver (I would never ever consider an automatic TSX sedan). I *may* also be able to stomach a RDX if it didn't get such awful MPG. Again, both have lots of great character. Both have good chassis dynamics (the TSX is better in this respect by far).
But...I think that my "no automatics" exception for both comes because I have a S2000 that I drive for most of the summer. I absolutely could not have either the wagon or RDX as an ONLY car. If I had to have one car...it would likely be a M3.
Don't want to Hijack!!!
For me, I like a screamer...
It's nice to have good low-end torque like the K24, Kia had absolutely none...
I test drove a 2004 Accord EX-L sedan automatic back in early-mid October, for me, it was a border-line sleeper!!!
I was extremely surprised with this engine, and it was much more rewarding to rev-out than the J30 2007 AV6 sedan...
Now, this was in a neighborhood setting, so we never exceeded 30-40, but it was really great...
The only thing that really feels fast to me it the VW 2.0t...
So, GTI, Passat turbo, CC, I guess any of those...
I drove a 2010 Passat CC back in January, only 200 HP, felt faster than the 244 AV6...
Felt way, way faster than the RDX, the CC would really press you hard into the seat at 4.5-6k RPM, like rocket launcher fast...
That being said, if I can't feel the power, at least I can put in an intake, and wake up livestock at midnight, he he...
That's why I like the K24, good fuel economy, I'm getting 12.6-15.0 around town in the RDX, 16-19 in the Kia, and 20-25 in the rental 2016 Camry SE, wich I liked a lot...
The K24 isn't slow, now the 2.3 Honda/Acura Accord, Cl 2.3, they're slow-ish like the Kia...
I've never really had a V6 impress me... Maybe the Duratec 3.0 in the Fusion/Milan, that was pretty cool though...
I know someone who has a Lexus ES300, that thing ran 0-60 in 10.87, with two occupants, trunk of junk, and a good bit of fuel, at least 1/2 tank, maybe 3/4...
That being said, I've achieved a best 0-60 in the
2007 Kia of 9.97
2016 Camry 8.0 (93 gas)
2007 RDX 7.40
So, about the handling, I could get a good thrill in the Kia, 2016 Camry SE without cornering faster than 40, so, I say to the RDX, what's your limit, at 40 the RDX just corners without drama, or even really working for it...
If I don't feel a little cornering force, take that how you want, it's like driving an old Buick at 10 mph... No Speed, No Thrill...
The ride can be a bit harsh, although it's not that bad...
Really, the RDX is very fast off the line, after the turbo spools that is...
It's just kinda continuous up to speed, so no push into the seat feeling...
The handling is, use it all, or it's no fun...
So the RDX is best enjoyed if you use every possible bit of it...
Now, I think the K24 is the best I4 money can buy for a good get-up engine...
That's it, if you have an I4, keep the pedal down, and enjoy the music...
So for a long post...
08-09-2016, 02:16 PM
#23
I'm unimpressed with the motor and tranny in the TSX. Too little power, too much gear noise, too much 'bouncy whiplash' when lifting off the throttle at slow speeds. Feels and sounds cheap. Revs are not linear-smooth either - definite pockets of on-powerband / off-powerband events between 1500 and 7000rpms. Should have been a 6 or a turbo - or just a really smoooooth revver (my BMW inline 6 should be the example for a non-turbo car).
That said, cost to maintain and use are tiny as compared to my SUV and BMW.
Handling is very good for the wag segment (on par with Audi, less capable than BMW, better than VW, Volvo or Subie). Braking fine (though I agree it lacks feel). Steering (also lacking feel) is direct, fast and accurate. Ride is a nice balance between controlled and comfortably sporty. I really like the seats and the tech. Hands-down better tech than our Lexus SUV (GX) or 3-series.
I got the TSX wag to be a reliable, cheap grocery-getter and surf wagon. It's no sports car or SUV replacement, but as something I drive daily with the intent of putting a gazillion errand miles on (and sparing the other two cars) it's near perfect. And yeah - I like the rarity of it. Expectations, I guess.
That said, cost to maintain and use are tiny as compared to my SUV and BMW.
Handling is very good for the wag segment (on par with Audi, less capable than BMW, better than VW, Volvo or Subie). Braking fine (though I agree it lacks feel). Steering (also lacking feel) is direct, fast and accurate. Ride is a nice balance between controlled and comfortably sporty. I really like the seats and the tech. Hands-down better tech than our Lexus SUV (GX) or 3-series.
I got the TSX wag to be a reliable, cheap grocery-getter and surf wagon. It's no sports car or SUV replacement, but as something I drive daily with the intent of putting a gazillion errand miles on (and sparing the other two cars) it's near perfect. And yeah - I like the rarity of it. Expectations, I guess.
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2012wagon (08-13-2016)
08-13-2016, 10:36 AM
#24
Burning Brakes
Try using the paddles to get a more predictable, but not necessarily linear, power curve. Peak torque comes in at 4300, and then VTEC kicks in at 5000 (I think). Brakes are fine, but only after driving a Mustang convertible rental did I find the TSX Wagon brakes soft. For daily driving, the brakes a good enough. Regarding steering, early reviewers of the TSX complained about no on-center feel and the need for micro-adjustments at highway speeds. I couldn't detect any such symptoms, so I figure Acura must have re-tuned it. I still prefer the steering feel on my 2010 Mazda3 though. The Wagon has electric power steering while the Mazda is hydro-electric assist.
Capable on curves, 0 to 60 in 8.2 secs (according to MotorTrend), and comfortable seats for long distance road trips, "controlled and comfortably sporty" sums it up nicely for me too.
Capable on curves, 0 to 60 in 8.2 secs (according to MotorTrend), and comfortable seats for long distance road trips, "controlled and comfortably sporty" sums it up nicely for me too.
08-13-2016, 11:57 AM
#25
I'm unimpressed with the motor and tranny in the TSX. Too little power, too much gear noise, too much 'bouncy whiplash' when lifting off the throttle at slow speeds. Feels and sounds cheap. Revs are not linear-smooth either - definite pockets of on-powerband / off-powerband events between 1500 and 7000rpms. Should have been a 6 or a turbo - or just a really smoooooth revver (my BMW inline 6 should be the example for a non-turbo car).
That said, cost to maintain and use are tiny as compared to my SUV and BMW.
Handling is very good for the wag segment (on par with Audi, less capable than BMW, better than VW, Volvo or Subie). Braking fine (though I agree it lacks feel). Steering (also lacking feel) is direct, fast and accurate. Ride is a nice balance between controlled and comfortably sporty. I really like the seats and the tech. Hands-down better tech than our Lexus SUV (GX) or 3-series.
I got the TSX wag to be a reliable, cheap grocery-getter and surf wagon. It's no sports car or SUV replacement, but as something I drive daily with the intent of putting a gazillion errand miles on (and sparing the other two cars) it's near perfect. And yeah - I like the rarity of it. Expectations, I guess.
That said, cost to maintain and use are tiny as compared to my SUV and BMW.
Handling is very good for the wag segment (on par with Audi, less capable than BMW, better than VW, Volvo or Subie). Braking fine (though I agree it lacks feel). Steering (also lacking feel) is direct, fast and accurate. Ride is a nice balance between controlled and comfortably sporty. I really like the seats and the tech. Hands-down better tech than our Lexus SUV (GX) or 3-series.
I got the TSX wag to be a reliable, cheap grocery-getter and surf wagon. It's no sports car or SUV replacement, but as something I drive daily with the intent of putting a gazillion errand miles on (and sparing the other two cars) it's near perfect. And yeah - I like the rarity of it. Expectations, I guess.
When I go from my Ducatis, or my sports cars, the TSX Wagon seems slow, lethargic, cumbersome.
It serves its purpose in our fleet, and for that we are happy with it
The following users liked this post:
makakio (08-15-2016)
08-15-2016, 09:58 AM
#26
Try using the paddles to get a more predictable, but not necessarily linear, power curve. Peak torque comes in at 4300, and then VTEC kicks in at 5000 (I think). Brakes are fine, but only after driving a Mustang convertible rental did I find the TSX Wagon brakes soft. For daily driving, the brakes a good enough. Regarding steering, early reviewers of the TSX complained about no on-center feel and the need for micro-adjustments at highway speeds. I couldn't detect any such symptoms, so I figure Acura must have re-tuned it. I still prefer the steering feel on my 2010 Mazda3 though. The Wagon has electric power steering while the Mazda is hydro-electric assist.
Capable on curves, 0 to 60 in 8.2 secs (according to MotorTrend), and comfortable seats for long distance road trips, "controlled and comfortably sporty" sums it up nicely for me too.
Capable on curves, 0 to 60 in 8.2 secs (according to MotorTrend), and comfortable seats for long distance road trips, "controlled and comfortably sporty" sums it up nicely for me too.
I've heard more than a couple of people comment on soft brakes - and while they aren't German (or apparently Ford) strong, I was driving some windy mountain highway this weekend thinking that if not overly aggressive they were at least pretty linear and easy to modulate (even with a strong front-end / understeer bias). I'm burning through a sh*t pair of Pirellis at present and am *really* looking forward to going to better tires. (as well as 8" width wheels and a little increase in track) - so that should help with performance (if not feel haha), but I agree - they're okay.
I think this is (was) a really overlooked vehicle by wagon shoppers. Especially when considered for grocery-getter duty...
08-15-2016, 07:27 PM
#27
Thanks Wheel. I feel the *only* reasonable way to drive this car is with paddles and 4k+ rpm lol. Fortunately it still returns about 24mpg no matter how hard I hammer it.
I've heard more than a couple of people comment on soft brakes - and while they aren't German (or apparently Ford) strong, I was driving some windy mountain highway this weekend thinking that if not overly aggressive they were at least pretty linear and easy to modulate (even with a strong front-end / understeer bias). I'm burning through a sh*t pair of Pirellis at present and am *really* looking forward to going to better tires. (as well as 8" width wheels and a little increase in track) - so that should help with performance (if not feel haha), but I agree - they're okay.
I think this is (was) a really overlooked vehicle by wagon shoppers. Especially when considered for grocery-getter duty...
I've heard more than a couple of people comment on soft brakes - and while they aren't German (or apparently Ford) strong, I was driving some windy mountain highway this weekend thinking that if not overly aggressive they were at least pretty linear and easy to modulate (even with a strong front-end / understeer bias). I'm burning through a sh*t pair of Pirellis at present and am *really* looking forward to going to better tires. (as well as 8" width wheels and a little increase in track) - so that should help with performance (if not feel haha), but I agree - they're okay.
I think this is (was) a really overlooked vehicle by wagon shoppers. Especially when considered for grocery-getter duty...
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