Not sure if we'll ever see this in the TSX considering the rumors of it being discontinued after 2014. Its a good look into the direction where Honda is going though.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...ts-coming.html

"Much has been said about the new Honda Civic receiving a list of early updates in a bid to silence critics while restoring the car’s class-leading fuel economy. This has all but been confirmed, with the Japanese automaker revealing an entire new lineup of engines and transmissions at a press briefing held at the Twin Ring Motegi Racing Circuit on the eve of the Tokyo Motor Show.

In total, Honda unveiled five all-new engines, ranging from a new Kei car 660 cc motor, to a flagship 3.5-liter V6 powertrain. With these engines Honda has said it is committed to being both a leader in fuel economy and engine output.

Engines destined for North America include a new 1.5-liter, 1.8-liter and 2.4-liter 4-cylinder, as well as a 3.5-liter V6. Across the board, all will receive direct-injection technology. The 4-cylinder engines gain a new VTEC arrangement with an Atkinson cycle lower load cam plus extensive friction reduction technologies. The result on a car like the Civic will be a 10 percent improvement in fuel economy, plus a 5 percent increase in power over the current model. The same goes for the 2.4-liter, which one Honda representative told us the new 2012 CR-V just missed out on receiving.

As for the V6 engine, it will replace both the current 3.5-liter and 3.7-liter engines, combining the best technologies of both, including a cylinder deactivation system while gaining direct injection. Honda provided a preliminary, and conservative, estimated power output with 310-hp and 265 lb-ft of torque, with a much stronger torque band.

Of note, all of the engines included a start-stop function, although no decision has been made by Honda as to whether we’ll see this technology in North America.

Apart from the new dual-clutch 7-speed transmission (integrated into a new SH-AW, discussion of automatics at the Honda event was non-existent. Instead, Honda revealed several new CVTs (and yes, they can hear you groaning in Motegi). Of note is a new CVT designed for compact cars, as well as another for mid-size, meaning you should look for CVTs to find their way into cars like the Civic, Accord and CR-V soon. As terrible as all this may sound for Honda owners dreading the thought of a CVT, the good news is what Honda is calling “G-Design Shift”, which was created to help deliver more immediate throttle response. We did have the change to test out the new CVT in a 2.4-liter direct-injection TSX but we can’t tell you about it until the embargo lifts next week. Stay tuned."

TOV:

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=1017152

New plan calls for top-of-industry fuel efficiency in every vehicle class within 3 years


TOKYO, Japan, November 30, 2011 - Honda Motor Co., Ltd. today announced the outline for a revolutionary next-generation technology called “Earth Dreams Technology.”

“Earth Dreams Technology” is a next generation set of technological advancements which greatly enhance both driving performance and fuel efficiency at a high level, using as its base advanced environmental technologies to pursue the joy of driving unique to Honda. It is a series of measures in which efficiency of internal combustion components including engine, and transmission, as well as electric-powered motor technology, is further improved.

Through its implementation first in the mini-vehicle N BOX and gradually onto other vehicle models, Honda aims to achieve top-of-industry fuel efficiency for every category within three years, while simultaneously setting a timeline of 2020 to reduce by 30% CO2 emissions for all products sold worldwide, relative to emission figures for 2000.


Newly developed 2.4L class engine


Inspiration of the “Earth Dreams Technology” name:
”Earth Dreams Technology” is an expression for a set of technologies which takes into account both our need to protect the environment and our desire to provide a joy of driving.

■Key features of “Earth Dreams Technology”
1. A gasoline engine which realizes top level driving performance and fuel efficiency.
2. A compact diesel engine which realizes the world’s lightest body, top-of-class acceleration performance and fuel efficiency.
3. CVT which combines at a high level the fun of driving and fuel efficiency.
4. A two-motor hybrid system which realizes top-of-industry efficiency. 5. A high-efficiency, high output electric SH-AWD hybrid system which combines superior driving and environmental performance.
6. A compact, high efficiency electric powertrain for EVs.

■Summary of key features
1. Gasoline engine which achieves top-of-industry driving performance and fuel efficiency
-By enhancing Honda’s original VTEC (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control System
-By gradually renewing the engine starting with the mini-vehicle N BOX, Honda aims to utilize this technology to achieve top-of-industry output and fuel efficiency in every vehicle class within three years.
-A wide range of engine classes including the 660cc, 1.3L, 1.5L, 1.8L, 2.0L, 2.4L, and 3.5L classes will feature the technology.

【660cc class engine】
・Employs DOHC and VTC (Variable Timing Control) to improve intake efficiency.
Further, the compact combustion chamber realizes high thermal efficiency.
・By shortening the bore pitch compared to the present engine models and reducing the thickness of the cylinder block and camshaft, engine weight is reduced by 15% and
fuel efficiency is improved by 10%.

【1.3 to 1.5L class engine】
・Employs VTC, direct injection technology and the Atkinson cycle using the DOHC, VTEC technologies as the base.
・Extensive friction reduction measures are implemented.

【1.8 to 2.0L class engine】 ・Employs direct injection technology and the Atkinson cycle using the DOHC, VTEC technologies as the base. Further, implementation of VTC and high-capacity EGR to both the intake and exhaust ports realizes significantly reduced friction. ・For the 2.0L class hybrid vehicle engines, use of an electric water pump eliminates the need for a belt in the auxiliary device and contributes to a reduction in friction. The electric VTC system realizes optimal control during engine operation. 【2.4L class engine】
・Based on the DOHC and VTEC technologies, it employs VTC and direct injection technology and implements extensive friction reduction measures.
・Standalone engine features 5% improvements in fuel efficiency and output as well as a 10% improvement in maximum torque.

【3.5L class engine】
・Employs new valve train mechanisms and direct injection technology in the SOHC, VTEC, VCM systems to improve by over 10% of fuel efficiency and 5% of output, relative to the present standalone engine model.

2. A world’s lightest diesel engine which realizes top-of-class acceleration performance and fuel efficiency.
・Through optimizing engine rigidity and combustion pressure, an aluminum open deck for the cylinder block was enabled in this top-of-industry lightweight 1.6L class diesel engine.
・By downsizing from the present 2.2L engine and extensively reducing mechanical friction in each section, a friction level equivalent to present gasoline engine models was achieved.
・Optimized thermal management system thanks to improvements in the cooling system reduces CO2 output by over 15%.
・Employment of a compact, high-efficiency turbocharger and weight reduction in the reciprocating sliding section realizes a sporty and nimble ride.

3. CVT which combines at a high level the fun of driving and fuel efficiency.
・Three CVT structures for mini, compact, and mid-size vehicle classes are newly developed to be adopted for a variety of engine models. ・Reinforced belt is used to realize a structure for which a wide ratio range can be set.
・Implementation of analysis technology over the contact behavior between the belt and pulley, and a high-precision hydraulic control system allows for continual optimization of hydraulic pressure to the pulley under a variety of driving conditions, contributing to improved fuel efficiency.
・Use of an electronic oil pump to realize an idle stop system with high response contributes significantly to improved usability and fuel efficiency.
・”G-Design Shift”, a new coordinated control system for shift transmission, throttle, and hydraulic control responds quickly to driver demands and realizes an exhilarating, sporty drive with superior acceleration. ・In the mini-vehicle class a control mechanism and innovations in axle placement to reduce the engine size lengthwise, while a reduction in parts by simplifying the transmission casing structure helps realize a lightweight and compact body.
・For the compact and mid-size classes, in addition to the reductions in size and weight, transmission efficiency was greatly improved by expanding the ratio range to achieve fuel efficiency improvements of 5% and 10% compared to the conventional CVT and comparable 5ATs, respectively.

4. A two-motor hybrid system which realizes top-of-industry efficiency.
・A two-motor hybrid system featuring top-of-industry efficiency enhancing driving performance and reduced CO2 emissions has been newly developed.
・Special lithium-ion battery and charger is employed to enable mounting on plug-in hybrid vehicles. ・Mid-sized vehicles equipped with this system are scheduled to begin production, starting with the plug-in hybrid model in 2012 and the hybrid model in 2013.
・Three driving modes allowing for optimal efficiency for various driving environments were developed; an “EV driving mode” for urban environments, a “hybrid driving mode” using electricity generated by the motor, and a “engine-connected driving mode” where the engine and tires are mechanically connected during high-speed cruising.
・Combination with a high-output 120kW motor allows for superior environmental performance and driving enjoyment.

5. A high-efficiency, high output electric SH-AWD hybrid system which combines superior driving and environmental performance.
・A new hybrid system, electric SH-AWD, was developed for large-sized vehicles. By combining a 3.5L, V6 engine with this hybrid system, acceleration equivalent to V8 engines, as well as fuel efficiency equal or superior to in-line 4-cylinder engines were realized.
・An electric 4WD system with independent 20kW+ motors on both sides for the rear wheels combines a 7-speed dual clutch transmission system with a built-in 30kW+ high-efficiency motor with the engine.
・By mounting a high-performance lithium-ion battery and optimally controlling the front and rear motors, a new hybrid system with high fuel efficiency and output was realized.
・By mounting two independent motors in the rear and employing a newly developed bilateral torque adjustable control system, incredibly tight “on-the-rail” cornering is realized, providing a stable ride for all daily driving environments.

6. A compact, high efficiency electric powertrain for EVs.
・Thanks to the high efficiency coaxial motor, low-friction gearbox and electric servo brake system, the system realizes the highest electrical consumption capabilities in the world, meeting the required AC consumption rate of 29kWh/100mile(116MPGe) as set forth by the United States.
・A traveling distance of 123 miles*1(LA-4mode: unadjusted) or 210km*1(JC08 mode) was achieved thanks to the mounting of a high capacity lithium-ion battery.
・When using the 240V U.S. electric source, a full charge takes less than 3 hours. (From the time a low-charge signal is lit till full charge)
・By offering three driving modes (SPORT, NORMAL, ECON), the driver can freely select from a number of options to meet the needs of various driving styles such as power-saving or sporty drive *1 According to Honda estimates

Posted throughout the forum. But if I get 6 cylinders, I want all 6 firing at the redlight. I'll pay for the extra gas. As far as CVT, give people more of a choice with MTs.

Lastly, and most of all, Acura wants over $1200 to replace a headlight unit. Wait for one of the wheel motors (as all motors eventually do) seizes up. $3000 if not more to fix.

All in all, I'm going to let 3 model years go by before jumping on this train. The 2003 TL transmission still eats at me.

And finally, what stands in the way of a 3.5 DOHC VTEC?

The misery has faded *a little* for the 01-03 TL(S) & CL(S) crew, unfortunately for the 2nd & 3rd gen Odyssey owners, problems continue.

I don't want a cvt trans in any car i drive. It's one reason i didn't even drive a new maxima.

never thought honda would go the cvt route...

TSX

and

CVT

in the same sentence.

my brain just cried a little.

CVT........eeeeeeeeeeehhh

Ditto for me...

+1

The next generation of CVT's sound promising, but we'll see how it will really pan out:

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/01/n...ariable-trans/

One thing about the cvt though - We are the 5%> that drive manuals, most owners go for the auto route.

Most people do not care/know what their transmission is doing.

Sadly, this is inevitable.

My wife's friend found out we got an Acura. Man, did my wife get an earful about how Acuras were the worst car we ever could have bought. She said she owned one and they had to replace the transmission twice, engine once or something like that. All covered under warranty, but she said they went through hell with that car would would NEVER look at an Acura again...

So the other day I drive by the house (because, of course, wife's friend did not know what KIND of Acura they had).

You probably already know the answer to this question (I didn't, as I'm new to Acuras but did a little digging online).

Early 2000's TL.

If the JDM Accord is going to get these new engines, then that means they have no intention of stopping production of the car. The only question is if they will continue to import them into the US

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-image?...hdreams-01.jpg

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/07/w...sh-awd-system/

A little insight on the new V6 Hybrid SH-AWD system

^ Oh boy. Instead of these "gimmicks" couldn't Honda/Acura mass produce a sedan or coupe (not NSX) for most people with a RWD V8 for about 4 years. If it flunks, they can say we told you so.

I never thought I'd see Hyundai blister Acura.

I'm afraid we better get used to them. It's another one of those technologies with advantages that are too compelling for manufactures to pass-on. Including infinitely altered ratios during acceleration so engines don't run out of revs and steady-state cruising speeds that reduce emissions and improve fuel economy. With the DOT constantly raising the bar on mileage and emission goals it's inevitable. To meet those goals CVT will be a technology they will turn to. They'll add preset fixed ratios to give us the illusion of a manual and hope we bite.

We're probably safe until they figure out how to silence the incessant hum and make them handle high torque loads. Hopefully the DCTs and close-ration autos will keep them out of the sport-luxury vehicles for a while. Although they have already shown up in the A6.

Makes me sad.

That's the reason I sold my maxima!!!!

My only experience with CVT was during a test drive in an A6. While I wouldn't own one (yet) I have to admit, it was damn smooth. It felt strange at first, but I was starting to get used to it by the end of the ride. After I got back into my TL, it felt kind of crude and jerky for a while and in tiptronic/manumatic mode you wouldn't know it was CVT. I came away thinking that Audi is very close to making CVT work in a sport-sedan. But, having experienced the '02 TL tranny shit-storm I wouldn't touch one based on reliability alone.

I'd be interested to hear more detail about why you disliked the Maxima so much. For instance,

- Did you think it worked well enough but just felt weird or was it just bad engineering?
- Was it noisy?
- Did you have reliability issues?

Apparently this new Honda CVT has a way to sort out torque delivery so it doesnt feel bland. Really time will tell, but the first previews of this tech so far have been positive, which is a good sign.

My future? Im glad you asked. I want a porsche for my next car and they will be sticking to manuals, so I'm gonna keep studying and dreaming.

CVTSX:

^nice rimsss, needa be lowered!

looks like the ce28n ? also of note: single exhaust... :x

this is one of the test vehicles used for blogger testing on the motegi circuit, the other was a jdm inspire decked with e-shawd, likely to be seen in the next gen RL. on a side note, the RL should be euthanized instead of carried over to a whole new gen. You would think the 100 sales a month would tip them off.

also with the death of the TSX and the incoming ax2/ax3 maybe well see the TL become the new RL (worth keeping the name) and the ax2/ax3 become the new tsx/tl? and the axx (?) take the place of a spiritual nsx successor. Worth noting: well likely never see a mid engined heir to the king. The new NSX will be a front engined coupe (hopefully front-mid) with FWD and two electric rear motors (ala e-shawd).

New NSX super sports concept will be in detroit in a month or so. Pray its not ugly.

single exhaust could be diesel, they get that in euro/asia and we dont. so we only have duals. they have single or dual

article mentions it had the new 2.4l DI w/ CVT, not the diesel, sorry to leave that part out :S

CVT = fail
CVT w/ new torque refinements and proper power delivery = fail

To be fair, I had a 07 SE Maxima (actually it was my wife car) which was the first CVT gen transmission to be used in a Maxima and don’t know if they have improved it or not.
First, IMO the transmission feels very weak, when you’re cruising @ steady speed and you hit the gas to make a pass or to gain speed when entering an on-ramp the transmission feels very elastic. It’s like the cars want to go but needs to wait for the transmission to deal with the torque first.

Second, the sport mode its very verrryyy slow at up shifting. There’s a time gap between when you tell the car to up-shift and when the car decides to do it, down-shift its fine. Also, when you’re reaching the sweet spot (close to but below redline) the car will shift for you.

Third, Nissan requires CVT fluid change every 30K miles and the dealer will happily charge you between $350 to $400.00 for that. Basically, the quart of CVT fluid is $21.00 and it takes about 11q to do a DIY at home which still is $230.00. And, if you use non-Nissan CVT fluid the dealer could give you a nightmare at warranty claims. Although I never made one I asked my service rep about that and he said that that’s possible because in the car’s manual Nissan for some reason states to use OEM CVT fluid only.

Fourth, the transmission was noisy @ cruising speed especially @ hwy speed. You’ll hear a constant hum that won’t go away unless you reduce your speed.
All for all, I know CVT will improve to become the new norm but until then I’ll stay away from them.

CAFE standards will be the death of driving anything fun under $40K. I'll be 42 in a couple of months, and I think I'm finally going build me a fun car... alot of straight line power and torque. I'm going to try to find a decent body and frame from the 1960's (hopefully not too much rust) and get a crate engine match to a 3 speed manual tranny. I want it to be street legal. The paint, body work, and interior will have to be outsourced, but I have the equipment to get the rest together.

i expect a DIY for how to build your own car from scratch

I don't think CAFE standars are destroying driving fun in the under $40k bracket. It's just changing. Sure, we still have the magnificent Mustang GT, but also several four cylinder cars like the WRX, Mazdaspeed 3, Miata, Mini, and Civic Si. (To be fair, the WRX and MS3 aren't exactly fuel misers.) In fact, I think the move to lighter weight performance cars -- inspired in part by fuel economy concerns -- is positive. The new Toyota/Subaru RWD sports car is probably the best manifestation of this trend, and I hope Honda/Acura follows suit. Could you imagine a small Acura with a screaming VTEC engine -- and RWD? I guess we can dream...

The real difficulty is finding a good combination of driving fun, daily driver comfort, AND reliability for under $40k. With few exceptions, including the TSX, you need to pick two of the three.