dlee74

I am with you. Camry is sooo a familsh car.

ostrich

I would not be caught dead driving a Camry or Corolla!!! How embarrassing would that be, huh!? LOL!!!

davidspalding

Or rather ... DESPITE the added weight (165 lbs? bah!), the additional torque is supposed to make it feel more powerful. The proof is in the, um, pull.

wackura

Some people cynicaly theorized that Honda set the vtec crossover at 6000 RPM so that one day they could lower it and claim a big improvement was made. Is that what happened here?

taz98spin

I swear I thought I saw new TSX and caught up to it, only to realized it was a Camry
with the factory body kit on it

Even my coworker (female) thinks the new TSX looks like a Camry

ostrich

More the reason that I would NOT be buying the 2009 TSX!!! I am going over to Infiniti, Audi or BMW!!!

dlee74

Really? Ugh......

MMsTSX

Funny you say that.

I showed my wife a pic of the new tsx from the side, and she said,
"That's the new tsx? Looks exactly like the Camry to me."

And when we went to Home Depot yesterday, in the parking lot was
a Camry with with a stock lip kit and some 10 spoke rims on it, dark
gray like my color. She says, "So that's the new TSX huh? It's okay."

I say, "No, that's the Camry, uh, Toyota."
Her, "Looks the same to me, how come?"

...

"I don't know dear, I have no idea where they're going with this."

dlee74

That's so funny. lol.

dlee74

We should have a new poll going whether the new TSX looks like a Camry since so many people (more towards females) misunderstands the two vehicles.

Tumby

To those TSX owner may be able to identify the difference but honestly the trend on the design of 09 TSX is going to that family sedan direction and which is disappointing..................................... ...................

Simba91102

I was firmly in the diesel camp too, but since the mileage advantage has totally evaporated with the drastic price rise in diesel fuel (diesel is at least 25% more than 93 now here in Mass.) the most compelling reason to wait for that option is gone (and to add insult to injury, you know it will/would come at a significant price increase that you'd be unlikely to ever get back). The new car will look better in person I'm sure, but most of the new stuff is stuff that I really don't need or want (longer, wider, heavier) and the items that are gone (shorter, narrower, lighter AND THE 6 DISC CD CHANGER IS GONE) are items that were important to me.

xenonhid

I highly doubt it. I've seen enough 09 Camry, uh I mean TSX pics to make me vomit.

dlee74

Seeing it in person may be more pleasing but my concern is the difference in acceleration power since the 09 TSX has more weight to carry. If there is no difference in acceleration then I don't picture myself getting this car. We need to have someone test drive this car and let us all know how it felt.

peter_bigblock

As I read about the new TSX, it appears to have gone from the lithe, athletic sleeper of the Acura lineup to TL-lite. It has become much more of a chick-car (no offense to the many racer chicks out there) appealing to people who care more about style and ipods than fun-to-drive dynamics. It's wide, long, odd-looking, and in a sea of turbocharged, direct-injected, V6 and I6 powered competitors, the new TSX will not shine the way the first one did.

Acura has relegated the TSX to also-ran. This car won't be a 10-best; it's no longer special.

The happy thing (for me) is that it makes me appreciate my TSX even more. It is truly a timeless, beautiful car. After nearly four years, I still can't wait to drive it every morning. I look forward to driving it to the friggin' grocery store. How many four-door, naturally-aspirated 4cyl, $26k cars can you say that about?

davidspalding

davidspalding

I hear ya ... the much-heralded Accord Hybrid was $3000 more (IIRC from the reviews), and gained a whole 1 MPG advantage, and had significant reviewer complaints about donkey-like performance while parking. The whole appeal of getting a top-line family sedan in a hybrid went up in a puff of smoke (and mirrors).

I've only see 1 Accord Hybrid on the road here in RTP. 1. That's it. Out of dozens of Accords I see on every commute.

I also noted the loss of the CD changer, but if this one FINALLY plays MP3s (and if the base model has the AUX + USB connection combo), does one really need to put 6 CDs in? I find I play CDs only when I'm bored with what's on my various portable players. Only complaint is lack of FF and RR control over the mp3 player, and with an iPod that's a non-issue (depending on the "non-Tech Package" interface usability).

+1 100%. I used to have fun driving my 1987 Jeep, that thrill has long gone (even when chicks, erm, women coo over it). I really get a kick out my 2006 TSX. I also feel comforted and protected (like, say, Friday night, driving at midnight through heavy thunderstorms with lousy visibility and super-soggy roads). I can drive sporty and aggressive one minute, and kick back and let the car handle the road the next. Its versatility as well as lithe elegance (as opposed to the fat-cat TL loaner I drove last year) is what makes me smile every time I unlock the door. I'm glad I got this and not the 6 year old Lexus that I was considering for $6000 less.

It seems to me that the most notable features on this new TSX is ... "new." Everything else is "too little, too late." The proof is that IIRC nothing on this refresh has made anyone on these forums say, "Woah, dude, look what they did!"

allthatjazz

Hate the new grill design. If I were to get another TSX I would try to pick up an 08 as the grill is definately a lot sharper. Currently looking for an awd which is not available on the TSX.

Chadwick

I like to break things down to a black or white level, and it's plain and simple. There are not enough "Better" things, than there are "Worse" things about the 09.

Worse:

1) First and foremost it's obviously the styling.
2) No significant increase in......... well anything.
3) No promise of some of the more desirable features, SH-AWD, turbo, diesel, Type-S.
4) That confounded grill!
5) Doesn't really seem like there's going to be any big price drops.
5) Is being compared to the Camry. Ouch.

Better:

1) Ummm......... it's supposed to be a little greener. Right?
2) You can get it with 10 speakers with the technology package. I guess that's an increase in something.

But to keep an open mind I have no doubt at all that in a year or two, when I see one with a nice tint, wheels, coilovers, and a body kit (and please god let it have a Mugen grill!) ..... I'll give it my respect .

Colin

Ok I'll bite.

1) Everyone I've shown pictures to (in the showroom) likes the look of the car
2) Significant increase in width will create a back seat with better space.
3) Already confirmed the diesel is coming for 2010
4) Its the same grill as the much loved Sports 4 concept.
5) Only here, see #1

Better
1) Greener and better fuel economy
2) Tech package adds a back up camera
3) Wider track should increase skidpad numbers (may result in slower slalom times)
4) Quieter with more sound isolation

My point is that many of the things you've listed are opinion and one that has been formed without seeing it in person, or driving it. You are entitled to your opinion, but if you ask me, you have anything but an open mind. But, hey, this is also my opinion so it's neither right or wrong (same as yours)

wackura

The Sports 4 grill was chrome all around which gave it a more traditional look as oposed to the potato pealer we see now. It also worked better with the overall facade, which is more similar to the TL.

The new TL's front end will actualy look a lot like the Sports 4. You can see from the spy shots that it has the same solid nose and slanted vents beneath the bumper. It might even have similar head and tail lights but I'm still disapointed that the Sports 4's huge over-wrapping windshield didn't become a reality, instead we're getting more of the same. I like the Cadillac CTS's huge sunroof, why can't Acura do something like that?

http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-conte...66&idg=1&idi=2

http://www.autoweek.com/files/specia...aper_sport.jpg

dom

Colin, you're really reaching here now....

Every review I've read so far speaks favorably of the car yes, but all mention lack of steering feel and cover how the car has no increase in power. while getting bigger for no reason.

1) Everyone I've shown pictures to (in the showroom) likes the look of the car
Looks are subjective. It can go either way. But yes. We should all wait to see it in person before commenting.

2) Significant increase in width will create a back seat with better space.
Back seat legroom was a concern which hasn't been addressed. And the car size wasn't a problem for many. Why can't we tell those that want more size to step up to a TL like we do to those who say they want more power?

3) Already confirmed the diesel is coming for 2010
Sounds good but Diesels are IMO being overrated. Isn't the 2.4 supposed to be the fuel miser of the lineup?

4) Its the same grill as the much loved Sports 4 concept.
Reach of the century. Executed on a entirely different body.


Better
1) Greener and better fuel economy
[B]Twirls finger in the air. Others can add 50+ lb-ft and improve MPG.

3) Wider track should increase skidpad numbers (may result in slower slalom times)
With reduced steering feel.

4) Quieter with more sound isolation
Twirls finger again.

I'm really just playing devil's advocate here. I know the car will sell well and many of the points you listed an important for some. But your really preaching those points to the wrong crowd here. Save it for the showroom. So I'll have to agree with those who said it before me. The negatives still far outweigh the positives.

CGTSX07

I voted "probably not". I plan on keeping my 07 TSX for a while as my daily driver. After it is paid off, I will probably still keep it as a daily driver, and move up to a nicer car for the weekends. I can't say that the next gen TSX classifies as a nicer car for me.

jlukja

To your "Better" list I would add the new dual valve dampers. From what I've read the ride quality is better. The first gen had a firm ride and some body lean in the corners. I really want to feel the ride on the 2nd gen to decide.

Colin

I know you are playing devil's advocate, but I wanted to 'correct' the statements made that were clearly incorrect or half-truths (ie. no promise of a diesel). I think that its obvious that the car got bigger for a reason. In Acura's eyes, the current car's size/power/refinement was a limiting factor for greater sales.

When looking a the other entry level cars it competes with, one glaring fact stands out. All the entry level car are small and underpowered. IS250, A4, C-Class are all around 200ish. These cars are successful so obviously HP is not the most important issue. Acura seems to be shooting for a specific niche, ie. similar power, greater interior space, lower price.

They could trade price for power or space for handling and it goes on and on. In the end, I think this will be a more refined sedan that allows us to better compete with the IS or C-class and that is most likely the real goal for this car.

LaZyPiGgY

Those cars may be around 200 ish hp, kinda, but the torque on those cars are much nicer than any honda's torque output will ever be. Isn't the new A4 going to have 250 lb/ft from 1500-5000 rpms? Damn TSX has to rev till 4500 to get 172 lb/ft. Even the current A4 is nice with 200lb/ft at that same rpm range. Plus that 2.0T has very nice gas mileage.

Colin

IMO low torque, high revs are a Honda trait (as you noted). I would be happy with the 2.2 F22C from the S2000 in the TSX because I understand that if I have enough revs, I can 'make' torque with gearing. Of course I know that would never happen.

IMO, if you are a "real Honda purist" as most of the current TSX owners see themselves, you are forbidden from mentioning the words "Honda" and "torque" in the same sentence!

spurfan15

Except if "diesel" also appears in that sentence!

Colin

Gotcha! We will need a whole new vocabulary!

yishmeister

No chance, the new car looks ok at best. But after making it bigger, they didn't even ramp up the engine?!?! Maybe even give us an option between engines. Come on Acura you can do better than this.

I rather by the 03 Acura CL-s from my cousin.

dom

Gimme a 2.4 with a 9K Redline!

Colin, a question.

Do you think this is the car Acura, not Honda but Acura would have released if given the choice?

Which is what bothers me about this car. Their hands were tied and they basically had to make the best of what they were given.

IMO, this is not the car they would have made if given the chance.

Colin

Hard to say. On the one hand, Acura was supposed to launch globally by 2010. I believe this was pushed back because of the uncertainty of the next NSX and RL (call this 'strike #1' for global plans). However, it is possible that at the same time they realized they couldn't ready two versions of the Accord for the expected launch and this would have created a funny situation to have the new Euro Accord and the TSX sitting next to eachother. (call this 'strike #2' for global plans)

So lets assume that 2-3 years ago they knew that Acura wouldn't make the bell in Europe for 2010. So they readied a TSX replacement with the full understanding that the TSX and Accord would never meet in the same market so identical styling isn't a problem.

It is possible that the long rumored (and troubled) A-VTEC was supposed to be the base engine in this car. This wasn't ready, and the k23 turbo is considered a failure, so they went with a revised k24.

Taking a page from the Europeans, they also announced plans for the diesel version a year later. So to answer the original question, I say yes, it is part of the plan - once they changed the original plan to introduce Acura to Europe.

dom

Good points.

But really, your answer is No. Its only a yes because they failed to go global.

And why do you say the 2.3T is a failure? It may be a failure in its current application but Turbo charging seems to be the way of the future. They'd be silly to give up on it now.

Colin

Yeah well, I still think theres a good 2-3 years development on the TSX and who's to say that once the decision not to go global was made that the focus of the Accord changed to better accommodate the TSX? We may never know.

As for the turbo, I've just heard some chatter that's all. I'd like to see the engine get a second chance in the next coupe. It's just that with the way Honda thinks, its a problematic engine. Too much torque for the cheaper 4 cylinder trannys, too much torque for FWD, (currently) no MT for SH-AWD.... you get the picture.

jlukja

They need to figure out a way to squeeze more economy out of the turbo engine.

LaZyPiGgY

Haha, good point about the "Honda purist" thing, ahh well. I love my TSX, but I guess I'm not a purist like the rest of you guys. I'd take Audi's 2.0T or BMW's TT inline-6 over a high rev Honda inline4 any day.

mikiTL

1. I agree with you, it looks like a civic, but I think it's supposed to. The JDM and EU Accord is the next step up from the Civic. I would wait for the mid-model-change to see a refined version of the 3G TSX.

2. Again, I would wait for the mid-model-change, then decide if I like the one before or after. By then AWD should be available, and maybe even a diesel or turbo-diesel

3. Heavier but with 4wd, possibly turbo, or some other hybrid system Honda is working on.

I think the a-spec kit that will be available for the TSX will resemble the EU Accord or be exactly that. I also read that the frame/body is much stronger and the pillars/roof is specifically designed to reduce wind/rain noise. It will be a larger car altogether with a wider stance and improved suspension/dampening throughout the chassis. Just have to wait a little longer for the best package,,,

EuRTSX

No, I'm glad I got my 2006.

nickp85

My 2005 TSX will have about 90K miles on it by next spring... it's paid off and I want to sell it privately before it hits 100K. I am thinking about getting the 2009 before or when they roll out the 2010 or I may just go for it get a 2010 model.

Otherwise, I have fallen in love with the new TSX and I am really fighting myself not to get one right away since mine is paid off... almost 70K miles now.

yisrael42

My 05 TSX has about 45k miles on it and I love it. If I had gotten it with Nav I would be keeping it, but the new tech package is too much for me to resist... so yes, I will be selling or trading my current TSX for one of the new guys.

I just wonder how long it will be before comptech comes out with an upgraded sway bar for the new model.