Acura ILX to possibly replace the TSX in 2012 :(
12-20-2011, 08:27 AM
#41
Intermediate
If anyone here actually did cross shop these vehicles, would anyone be willing to admit a reason besides being cheaper that they picked the TSX??
At least in the case of the wagons, I cannot say that the Audi is the better vehicle than the Acura.
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K100Fran (12-28-2011)
12-20-2011, 09:00 AM
#42
I chose an Acura over BMW and Audi mainly based on reading forums and seeing fairly bad reliability with the German cars. I didn't want to spend $25k-40K (looking used) on something that needed work all the time. I also think the TSX exterior looks just as good, and interior is better (BMW was boring cookie cutter looking)
I also think the ILX will look like shit if it's based off an ugly ass civic, and it will fail.
I also think the ILX will look like shit if it's based off an ugly ass civic, and it will fail.
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iggibar (01-10-2012)
12-20-2011, 11:37 AM
#43
1. Better reliability. I had been driving European cars for 15 years -- a Jetta GLX and Saab 9-5 Aero -- and I was tired of all the issues. A 328i probably would have been fine, but I wanted peace of mind with a Honda. It's been great.
2. The TSX seemed more family-friendly with its larger interior.
3. All-weather driving without need for winter wheel/tire set. We live in an urban townhouse with little storage space, so dealing with a separate wheel/tire set is a hassle. Plus, even with proper winter tires, I wasn't crazy about having my wife in a RWD car in the snow. And yes, I drove the 328i with X-Drive. It was a pig. The TSX might be better dynamically.
4. My Saab was on its last legs, and I needed to replace it quickly. In October 2009, the 2010 BMW's weren't available yet, and I literally could not find a 2009 328i with Sport Package and MT on the lots in the Philly area. (The C300 Sport with MT existed mostly in theory; they imported very few in 2009.) I would have needed to wait a few months, and I didn't want to nurse the Saab through another winter. This was a big factor.
5. I didn't want to deal with BMW's madatory run-flat tires and their associated hassles. I still don't, but apparently the newer generation of RFT's are markedly improved so maybe it won't be so bad.
The TSX was a compromise, to be sure, but a good one considering all these factors. I have no regrets. It's been outstanding as a daily driver/family workhorse that's still a blast to drive. I hope the new 3 Series will prove reliable, and will retain good steering feel despite electric assist. If so, I might go for it a few years into the new generation. (Unless, that is, one of my wife's relatives sells me his 2004 M3 convertible, in which case I'll stick with the TSX as a DD and use the M3 for the serious driving! I'd suck up the garage expenses for that.)
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iggibar (01-10-2012)
12-20-2011, 02:19 PM
#44
Acura's marketeers are having one hell of a time figuring out how to play today's game of Luxury Vehicle. It seems to me that there are primarily 4 sweet-spots to the sedan luxury market, everything else is a blur somewhere at the fringe or between these segments. Acura's marketing likes to play at the fringes apparently.
Starting at the bottom, you've got your "premium compact" or "small-luxury". Think Audi A3 or BMW 1 series. Acura abandoned this market when it deep-sixed the RSX. This market is Acura's for the taking. It would be nice to see them return with a strong offering.
Moving up in size and cost is the entry-level luxury class typified by cars like the Lexus ES, BMW 3 series, Audi A4 and of course our beloved TSX. I think the 3G TL was slotted in this category but not the 4G. Based on size, weight, cost, and features this is the sweet-spot of the sweet-spots IMHO. I can't see how Acura could abandon a strong contender like TSX in this market.
Next class is the mid-luxury which includes autos like BMW 5 and Audi A6. I think Acura thinks the 4G TL belongs in this segment but the slight size and weight differences between the 4G TL and TSX V6 creates an identity crisis for them and there is no question that TL sales have been cannibalized by the 2G TSX especially in V6 trim.
The next major market is high-end luxury, not to be confused with ultra-luxury, typified by the Audi A8 and BMW 7 series. I'm not sure, but I think the Acura marketeers want the RL to work in this segment. Problem is, for a number of reasons, it belongs with the mid-luxury cars right alongside the TL. Yet another marketing blunder and I'm sure TL sales cannibalize RL sales.
Starting at the bottom, you've got your "premium compact" or "small-luxury". Think Audi A3 or BMW 1 series. Acura abandoned this market when it deep-sixed the RSX. This market is Acura's for the taking. It would be nice to see them return with a strong offering.
Moving up in size and cost is the entry-level luxury class typified by cars like the Lexus ES, BMW 3 series, Audi A4 and of course our beloved TSX. I think the 3G TL was slotted in this category but not the 4G. Based on size, weight, cost, and features this is the sweet-spot of the sweet-spots IMHO. I can't see how Acura could abandon a strong contender like TSX in this market.
Next class is the mid-luxury which includes autos like BMW 5 and Audi A6. I think Acura thinks the 4G TL belongs in this segment but the slight size and weight differences between the 4G TL and TSX V6 creates an identity crisis for them and there is no question that TL sales have been cannibalized by the 2G TSX especially in V6 trim.
The next major market is high-end luxury, not to be confused with ultra-luxury, typified by the Audi A8 and BMW 7 series. I'm not sure, but I think the Acura marketeers want the RL to work in this segment. Problem is, for a number of reasons, it belongs with the mid-luxury cars right alongside the TL. Yet another marketing blunder and I'm sure TL sales cannibalize RL sales.
Also neat to note that acura is doing what GM did with it's brands. Share platforms between brands without creating any distinction. Everyone knows the csx is a rebranded civic and everyone (well, some) knows that a tsx is a euro accord, so who are you trying to fool? Premium brands like vw share platforms but create meaningful distinction. This is why Honda will never succeed in creating a premium luxury brand...Toyota did so well with lexus and Honda is like the kid that never learns from his mistakes.
12-20-2011, 03:11 PM
#45
Also neat to note that acura is doing what GM did with it's brands. Share platforms between brands without creating any distinction. Everyone knows the csx is a rebranded civic and everyone (well, some) knows that a tsx is a euro accord, so who are you trying to fool? Premium brands like vw share platforms but create meaningful distinction. This is why Honda will never succeed in creating a premium luxury brand...Toyota did so well with lexus and Honda is like the kid that never learns from his mistakes.
I wonder what will happen to the Euro Accord in a year or 2. Will it be changed to the US Accord, or will it be a completely new model that may or may not be available in the US under any brand?
12-20-2011, 04:04 PM
#46
Racer
I wonder what will happen to the Euro Accord in a year or 2. Will it be changed to the US Accord, or will it be a completely new model that may or may not be available in the US under any brand?
12-20-2011, 11:14 PM
#49
Three Wheelin'
I will reserve judgement until finally seeing the finished product. The Detroit Auto Shows start Jan 14, press preview Jan 9-10, so we don't have to wait much longer.
12-21-2011, 08:58 AM
#50
me too, i can't wait to check it out, it could be the best value out there!
if acura does offer the ilx for 'well under' 30k, i believe it will hurt their brand image, ppl will not associate 20K+ cars with luxury...the same reason why they got rid of the integra/rsx in their failed attempt at gaining tier 1 status...
if acura does offer the ilx for 'well under' 30k, i believe it will hurt their brand image, ppl will not associate 20K+ cars with luxury...the same reason why they got rid of the integra/rsx in their failed attempt at gaining tier 1 status...
12-21-2011, 11:55 PM
#51
Proud Acura Owner
Thread Starter
me too, i can't wait to check it out, it could be the best value out there!
if acura does offer the ilx for 'well under' 30k, i believe it will hurt their brand image, ppl will not associate 20K+ cars with luxury...the same reason why they got rid of the integra/rsx in their failed attempt at gaining tier 1 status...
if acura does offer the ilx for 'well under' 30k, i believe it will hurt their brand image, ppl will not associate 20K+ cars with luxury...the same reason why they got rid of the integra/rsx in their failed attempt at gaining tier 1 status...
12-22-2011, 02:53 AM
#52
06 TL 6MT + 18 ATS-V 8AT
iTrader: (2)
i absolutely think that a TSX is a competitor to the 3 series, A4, and C-class. the main difference is speed, prestige, and price. TSX fully wins in price. the TSX isn't as fast as the other 3, but is alot more fuel efficient, and many do consider acura luxury, considering most of the options for the other 3 that add another 10K to MSRP are standard on the TSX. and even bone stock, which would make any of the other 3 a shitty drive, TSX costs alot less. so yes i believe its a valid competitor. PS: i have a C300 and a 2010 base TSX. i know what im talking about
I have a C300 and 3G TL (comparable to TSX V6). IMO the TL's interior, engine refinement, standard options, fuel economy, power, and even driving feel are head and shoulders above the C300 despite being roughly the same price. So for me, the TL is much more of a luxury/sports sedan than the C300, and those who disagree are likely brand snobs who value prestigious badges and flashy specs (rwd, gazillion speed automatics, etc) over anything else.
So the assumption that Acura's are typically chosen due to "price" is highly incorrect. Choosing them for their "value" is a much more accurate term, since value means different things to different people. And there's nothing to be ashamed about that.
As long as Acura continues making great interiors, smooth drivetrains (doesn't have to be the fastest), clean designs, and a lighter more efficient SH-AWD system, I will continue to be a customer.
Last edited by silverTL6; 12-22-2011 at 02:57 AM. Reason: u
12-22-2011, 09:53 AM
#53
Instructor
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It is a shame that the TSX has been developed as a great drivers car, many other companies use it as a benchmark, only to have it pulled. The mistake was making it larger in the 2nd gen making it too close to the TL in size. What is wrong with downsizing it and still leaving the name? Not sure what the Greensburg In built vehicle will look like, but here is more information about Acura in general from Dec 12 Automotive News:
LAS VEGAS -- Honda will overhaul and reposition its Acura lineup over the next 18 months and abandon its long pursuit of top-tier luxury-car status for the brand.
After years of trying to propel Acura into the front ranks with Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Lexus, Honda says it will settle for offering mid-level premium vehicles that favor fuel economy over performance.
With one exception: At the Detroit auto show next month, Honda will bring back the Ferrari-fighting Acura NSX -- a new version of the mid-engine supercar that disappeared in 2005 after a 15-year run. But instead of a monster engine, the NSX will have a compact, direct-injection V-6 teamed with a lithium ion battery pack. Another key to recalibrating Acura is the rollout of three new or redesigned sedans in the next 18 months, including a smaller compact and a bigger flagship.
"We are not satisfied with Acura's current positioning," Honda Motor Co. CEO Takanobu Ito said this month at the Tokyo Motor Show. "We want to showcase interesting and fun technologies and show excellent environmental performance."
In the works for Acura:
-- The ILX compact sedan will arrive in spring, using Honda's global Civic platform. It replaces the tired TSX that used the bones of the European Accord.
-- A redesigned RL flagship that is larger than the current version is due next fall.
-- A redesigned mid-sized TL sedan follows in the spring of 2013.
"Our sedans haven't been doing the job for the brand," said Vicki Poponi, American Honda assistant vice president for product planning, at a briefing here for dealers and the media.
Poponi said the TSX, TL and RL were cannibalizing sales because they were too close in footprint and interior size. The new models will create a bigger spread in the lineup.
Changes in the crossover categories also are coming, with a redesigned RDX compact arriving next spring and the next MDX in 2013.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2011...#ixzz1hHNFK1bA
After years of trying to propel Acura into the front ranks with Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Lexus, Honda says it will settle for offering mid-level premium vehicles that favor fuel economy over performance.
With one exception: At the Detroit auto show next month, Honda will bring back the Ferrari-fighting Acura NSX -- a new version of the mid-engine supercar that disappeared in 2005 after a 15-year run. But instead of a monster engine, the NSX will have a compact, direct-injection V-6 teamed with a lithium ion battery pack. Another key to recalibrating Acura is the rollout of three new or redesigned sedans in the next 18 months, including a smaller compact and a bigger flagship.
"We are not satisfied with Acura's current positioning," Honda Motor Co. CEO Takanobu Ito said this month at the Tokyo Motor Show. "We want to showcase interesting and fun technologies and show excellent environmental performance."
In the works for Acura:
-- The ILX compact sedan will arrive in spring, using Honda's global Civic platform. It replaces the tired TSX that used the bones of the European Accord.
-- A redesigned RL flagship that is larger than the current version is due next fall.
-- A redesigned mid-sized TL sedan follows in the spring of 2013.
"Our sedans haven't been doing the job for the brand," said Vicki Poponi, American Honda assistant vice president for product planning, at a briefing here for dealers and the media.
Poponi said the TSX, TL and RL were cannibalizing sales because they were too close in footprint and interior size. The new models will create a bigger spread in the lineup.
Changes in the crossover categories also are coming, with a redesigned RDX compact arriving next spring and the next MDX in 2013.
In using the Civic as the basis for the ILX, Acura is traveling the same platform-sharing course it did with its Integra and RSX coupes in the 1980s and 1990s. But Poponi said the ILX will bear no resemblance to the Civic or the Canadian-market Acura CSX, which has been derided as a rebadged Civic.
"All the suspension settings will be tuned to be Acura," Poponi said. "Consider it as different as the TL is from the Accord or the MDX is from the Pilot."
The ILX will be available with a choice of a 2.0-liter direct-injection four-cylinder engine with automatic transmission, a 2.4-liter engine with a six-speed manual transmission or a 1.5-liter hybrid powertrain. Features will include push-button start, rearview camera, Pandora link and SMS with text-to-voice capability.
Acura hopes that sales of the ILX, to be priced "well below $30,000," will be about 40,000 units annually. The current-generation TSX peaked at 31,998 sales in 2008.
Next up is the flagship RL, which has had little success competing in the $50,000 sedan segment against the likes of the Mercedes-Benz E class, BMW 5 series and Lexus GS. Critics have called it overweight and underpowered, and the interior is cramped.
Poponi said the redesigned version will have more cabin space, with rear legroom going from worst-in-class to the best-in-class.
"It will have [BMW] 7 series cabin space with the agility of a 5 series," Poponi said. "Our sedans need to instill passion and emotion. The new flagship establishes that, and sets the ceiling for premium pricing. Once we have set that, then our SUVs can come into the market and leverage that prestige."
The RL will debut in April at the New York auto show and go on sale next fall.
As for the RDX, the previous generation has been criticized for the jerkiness of its turbocharged four-cylinder engine. The new RDX will have a V-6 with "top-class fuel economy," Poponi said.
The RDX also will use the Honda CR-V's simpler electric power steering and all-wheel-drive systems, rather than the pricier Super Handling All-Wheel Drive system of the old RDX. Poponi says it will be "quieter, roomier and more comfortable."
Then there is the NSX that arrives in concept form next month in Detroit. The original V-6-powered NSX was decked out with astonishing technology when it debuted in 1990. It was the first car without turbos to deliver 100 hp per liter of engine displacement. It also was the first major project for body engineer Takanobu Ito, now Honda's CEO.
Ito killed a previous NSX concept after the autumn 2008 Lehman Brothers meltdown destroyed Honda's desire to re-enter the segment. The project has been revived, but Ito has changed the concept.
"Our approach is efficiency and a strong power-to-weight ratio," said Acura sales boss Jeff Conrad. "The original NSX did this. But the proposed successor went into the classic world of a heavy vehicle, requiring a V-10 engine and other technologies to be a performance car."
Conrad adds: "That is not Acura DNA. If we are thinking about being sporty, we need to do it with the machine's efficiency. That's the thing we can do. The way we achieve it will be unique to Acura."
In addition to the NSX's compact V-6, the lithium ion battery-powered Sport Hybrid All-Wheel Drive system uses two integrated drive units at the rear wheels connected to a motor-generator that delivers power.
Regenerative brakes will capture electricity and deliver torque to the outside wheel -- while absorbing negative torque from the inside wheel -- as the car goes through a corner.
American Honda President Tetsuo Iwamura did not set a date for the NSX's launch, saying: "We hope within three years. ... As soon as possible."
Too much machine
Despite the NSX's go-fast ambitions, a major part of Acura's new philosophy will be dialing back on performance in exchange for fuel economy. Executives say that today's luxury cars have more power than they need, and that premium-vehicle buyers now care more about mpg than mph.
Conrad said Acura has returned to its original philosophy of elegant engineering and top-of-class fuel economy, and has stopped chasing the elite of the luxury segment. The new slogan: "Smart luxury."
Mike Accavitti, the former head of Dodge who became American Honda's vice president of marketing in August, describes the current luxury market as "too much machine and not enough humanity."
Said Accavitti: "Our overweight bodies require overweight engines and more safety systems to protect them. Some of these cars the average driver just can't control. We have been increasing performance beyond the ability of the driver, or we have complicated the driving process."
Poponi said of Acura's previous batch of products: "Our engineering ego was getting in the way."
Peaks and valleys
American Honda hopes this philosophy can stabilize Acura's sales, which have peaked twice -- once in the early 1990s and again in setting a brand record in 2005, at 209,610 units. But each time things fell apart because of ill-conceived products and faulty marketing -- not to mention the recent recession. This year, sales through November were down 7 percent to 110,170. Honda says short supplies caused by the March earthquake in Japan were a factor.
For a new crop of customers, Honda is looking at Generation Y. The leading edge of that generation is turning 30, and Honda says the generation's top priorities are exterior styling, price and environmental friendliness.
"A good sound system" finished fifth in its research, and less than 20 percent care about high performance, Honda says.
"Technology is only as good as the driver," said Gary Evert, division director for advanced automotive planning at Acura r&d. "The vehicle almost always has more capability than the driver can handle. Anything outside the customer's understanding is waste."
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2011...#ixzz1hHNRmArA
"All the suspension settings will be tuned to be Acura," Poponi said. "Consider it as different as the TL is from the Accord or the MDX is from the Pilot."
The ILX will be available with a choice of a 2.0-liter direct-injection four-cylinder engine with automatic transmission, a 2.4-liter engine with a six-speed manual transmission or a 1.5-liter hybrid powertrain. Features will include push-button start, rearview camera, Pandora link and SMS with text-to-voice capability.
Acura hopes that sales of the ILX, to be priced "well below $30,000," will be about 40,000 units annually. The current-generation TSX peaked at 31,998 sales in 2008.
Next up is the flagship RL, which has had little success competing in the $50,000 sedan segment against the likes of the Mercedes-Benz E class, BMW 5 series and Lexus GS. Critics have called it overweight and underpowered, and the interior is cramped.
Poponi said the redesigned version will have more cabin space, with rear legroom going from worst-in-class to the best-in-class.
"It will have [BMW] 7 series cabin space with the agility of a 5 series," Poponi said. "Our sedans need to instill passion and emotion. The new flagship establishes that, and sets the ceiling for premium pricing. Once we have set that, then our SUVs can come into the market and leverage that prestige."
The RL will debut in April at the New York auto show and go on sale next fall.
As for the RDX, the previous generation has been criticized for the jerkiness of its turbocharged four-cylinder engine. The new RDX will have a V-6 with "top-class fuel economy," Poponi said.
The RDX also will use the Honda CR-V's simpler electric power steering and all-wheel-drive systems, rather than the pricier Super Handling All-Wheel Drive system of the old RDX. Poponi says it will be "quieter, roomier and more comfortable."
Then there is the NSX that arrives in concept form next month in Detroit. The original V-6-powered NSX was decked out with astonishing technology when it debuted in 1990. It was the first car without turbos to deliver 100 hp per liter of engine displacement. It also was the first major project for body engineer Takanobu Ito, now Honda's CEO.
Ito killed a previous NSX concept after the autumn 2008 Lehman Brothers meltdown destroyed Honda's desire to re-enter the segment. The project has been revived, but Ito has changed the concept.
"Our approach is efficiency and a strong power-to-weight ratio," said Acura sales boss Jeff Conrad. "The original NSX did this. But the proposed successor went into the classic world of a heavy vehicle, requiring a V-10 engine and other technologies to be a performance car."
Conrad adds: "That is not Acura DNA. If we are thinking about being sporty, we need to do it with the machine's efficiency. That's the thing we can do. The way we achieve it will be unique to Acura."
In addition to the NSX's compact V-6, the lithium ion battery-powered Sport Hybrid All-Wheel Drive system uses two integrated drive units at the rear wheels connected to a motor-generator that delivers power.
Regenerative brakes will capture electricity and deliver torque to the outside wheel -- while absorbing negative torque from the inside wheel -- as the car goes through a corner.
American Honda President Tetsuo Iwamura did not set a date for the NSX's launch, saying: "We hope within three years. ... As soon as possible."
Too much machine
Despite the NSX's go-fast ambitions, a major part of Acura's new philosophy will be dialing back on performance in exchange for fuel economy. Executives say that today's luxury cars have more power than they need, and that premium-vehicle buyers now care more about mpg than mph.
Conrad said Acura has returned to its original philosophy of elegant engineering and top-of-class fuel economy, and has stopped chasing the elite of the luxury segment. The new slogan: "Smart luxury."
Mike Accavitti, the former head of Dodge who became American Honda's vice president of marketing in August, describes the current luxury market as "too much machine and not enough humanity."
Said Accavitti: "Our overweight bodies require overweight engines and more safety systems to protect them. Some of these cars the average driver just can't control. We have been increasing performance beyond the ability of the driver, or we have complicated the driving process."
Poponi said of Acura's previous batch of products: "Our engineering ego was getting in the way."
Peaks and valleys
American Honda hopes this philosophy can stabilize Acura's sales, which have peaked twice -- once in the early 1990s and again in setting a brand record in 2005, at 209,610 units. But each time things fell apart because of ill-conceived products and faulty marketing -- not to mention the recent recession. This year, sales through November were down 7 percent to 110,170. Honda says short supplies caused by the March earthquake in Japan were a factor.
For a new crop of customers, Honda is looking at Generation Y. The leading edge of that generation is turning 30, and Honda says the generation's top priorities are exterior styling, price and environmental friendliness.
"A good sound system" finished fifth in its research, and less than 20 percent care about high performance, Honda says.
"Technology is only as good as the driver," said Gary Evert, division director for advanced automotive planning at Acura r&d. "The vehicle almost always has more capability than the driver can handle. Anything outside the customer's understanding is waste."
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2011...#ixzz1hHNRmArA
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2011...#ixzz1hHNFK1bA
12-22-2011, 10:39 AM
#54
Racer
For a new crop of customers, Honda is looking at Generation Y. The leading edge of that generation is turning 30, and Honda says the generation's top priorities are exterior styling, price and environmental friendliness.
"A good sound system" finished fifth in its research, and less than 20 percent care about high performance, Honda says.
"A good sound system" finished fifth in its research, and less than 20 percent care about high performance, Honda says.
On the issue of the high value of the yen again, Honda announced that they will begin producing the Fit in Mexico for US customers. I'm assuming this would start when the next generation model comes out. That will officially leave the Insight, NSX and possibly future RL as the future of Honda/Acura to be built in Japan.
12-22-2011, 12:52 PM
#55
+1
I have a C300 and 3G TL (comparable to TSX V6). IMO the TL's interior, engine refinement, standard options, fuel economy, power, and even driving feel are head and shoulders above the C300 despite being roughly the same price. So for me, the TL is much more of a luxury/sports sedan than the C300, and those who disagree are likely brand snobs who value prestigious badges and flashy specs (rwd, gazillion speed automatics, etc) over anything else.
So the assumption that Acura's are typically chosen due to "price" is highly incorrect. Choosing them for their "value" is a much more accurate term, since value means different things to different people. And there's nothing to be ashamed about that.
As long as Acura continues making great interiors, smooth drivetrains (doesn't have to be the fastest), clean designs, and a lighter more efficient SH-AWD system, I will continue to be a customer.
I have a C300 and 3G TL (comparable to TSX V6). IMO the TL's interior, engine refinement, standard options, fuel economy, power, and even driving feel are head and shoulders above the C300 despite being roughly the same price. So for me, the TL is much more of a luxury/sports sedan than the C300, and those who disagree are likely brand snobs who value prestigious badges and flashy specs (rwd, gazillion speed automatics, etc) over anything else.
So the assumption that Acura's are typically chosen due to "price" is highly incorrect. Choosing them for their "value" is a much more accurate term, since value means different things to different people. And there's nothing to be ashamed about that.
As long as Acura continues making great interiors, smooth drivetrains (doesn't have to be the fastest), clean designs, and a lighter more efficient SH-AWD system, I will continue to be a customer.
value - agreed, different strokes for different folks...
waiting for the clean designs...
12-22-2011, 03:02 PM
#56
Карты убийцы
I could have got a TL for about the same price as the TSX. But I can stand the slope on the rear of the TL from the side. It looks like a hatchback. I guess that's why the TSX has more cargo room than the TL. The 1/2" extra rear leg room is nothing.
I wouldn't be surprised that within the next 10 years the Acura brand will fold, and a few more high end models will be simply Hondas. Automotive tiers are something of yesteryear like Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln. Of course GM were the kings of tiers with Chevy, then Pontiac, then Oldsmobile, the Buick, and finally a Caddy. But they had enough sense to keep the public interest with some tasty bones like the Corvette, TransAm, GTO, Grand National, and of course the CTS-V.
I wouldn't be surprised that within the next 10 years the Acura brand will fold, and a few more high end models will be simply Hondas. Automotive tiers are something of yesteryear like Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln. Of course GM were the kings of tiers with Chevy, then Pontiac, then Oldsmobile, the Buick, and finally a Caddy. But they had enough sense to keep the public interest with some tasty bones like the Corvette, TransAm, GTO, Grand National, and of course the CTS-V.
12-22-2011, 03:06 PM
#57
Карты убийцы
To add, the best thing I liked about Acura is that the price for a model is fairly constant. With a BMW, you can option it out for as much as the price of their in-class base model. So you are paying double for alot of features that are standard on the Acura.
12-22-2011, 04:08 PM
#58
Who the hell did they research? I don't know of one guy that is my age 25-30 that doesn't get giddy about racing and going fast. If Gen Y didn't care about performance, than why is the infiniti G so damn popular, why is every car getting faster? Honda is run by conservatives who decided to neuter the NSX. I hope your company perishes!
12-23-2011, 12:11 PM
#59
I just don't see how one can compare the tsx to the German rwd cars. I could see more of a case for Audi being compared bc of fwd.
The tsx is a pretty good value but then you could argue the point of getting a v6 accord loaded for less...
It just seems every time I touch something in my tsx it screams cheap plastic. All the buttons, the door handles, etc.
To each their own though!!
The tsx is a pretty good value but then you could argue the point of getting a v6 accord loaded for less...
It just seems every time I touch something in my tsx it screams cheap plastic. All the buttons, the door handles, etc.
To each their own though!!
12-25-2011, 12:14 PM
#60
New 3 series interior. Car has wheel base of RL and handling with M- Sport package will be better than SH-AWD. you get car with performance of TL- SH-AWD with fuel economy of Civic and interior/electronics better than RL.
through it 4 year maintaince. and $40k car looks better than $30k in car value.
BMW total volume will reach 2 million vehicles in less than 2 years and with declining Euro. they can afford to deliver more with same amount of money.
On other hand Honda is facing collapsing demand for Accord based vehicles. Only City/Civic in Asia have decent voume.
through it 4 year maintaince. and $40k car looks better than $30k in car value.
BMW total volume will reach 2 million vehicles in less than 2 years and with declining Euro. they can afford to deliver more with same amount of money.
On other hand Honda is facing collapsing demand for Accord based vehicles. Only City/Civic in Asia have decent voume.
12-25-2011, 12:51 PM
#61
Three Wheelin'
^ the handling on that car is no where near the previous 328i and 335i versions. The 3-series now have vague electric steering and suspension tuned for comfort. so the 1-series and M3 are at the moment the only good handling BMWs.
12-25-2011, 03:33 PM
#64
I don't know about that, love to read some facts and see some handling comparisons between the current and new model. Btw I drive a E90 so I guess I'm not being bias... =P
12-25-2011, 08:12 PM
#65
It is a shame that the TSX has been developed as a great drivers car, many other companies use it as a benchmark, only to have it pulled. The mistake was making it larger in the 2nd gen making it too close to the TL in size. What is wrong with downsizing it and still leaving the name? Not sure what the Greensburg In built vehicle will look like, but here is more information about Acura in general from Dec 12 Automotive News:
LAS VEGAS -- Honda will overhaul and reposition its Acura lineup over the next 18 months and abandon its long pursuit of top-tier luxury-car status for the brand.
After years of trying to propel Acura into the front ranks with Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Lexus, Honda says it will settle for offering mid-level premium vehicles that favor fuel economy over performance.
With one exception: At the Detroit auto show next month, Honda will bring back the Ferrari-fighting Acura NSX -- a new version of the mid-engine supercar that disappeared in 2005 after a 15-year run. But instead of a monster engine, the NSX will have a compact, direct-injection V-6 teamed with a lithium ion battery pack. Another key to recalibrating Acura is the rollout of three new or redesigned sedans in the next 18 months, including a smaller compact and a bigger flagship.
"We are not satisfied with Acura's current positioning," Honda Motor Co. CEO Takanobu Ito said this month at the Tokyo Motor Show. "We want to showcase interesting and fun technologies and show excellent environmental performance."
In the works for Acura:
-- The ILX compact sedan will arrive in spring, using Honda's global Civic platform. It replaces the tired TSX that used the bones of the European Accord.
-- A redesigned RL flagship that is larger than the current version is due next fall.
-- A redesigned mid-sized TL sedan follows in the spring of 2013.
"Our sedans haven't been doing the job for the brand," said Vicki Poponi, American Honda assistant vice president for product planning, at a briefing here for dealers and the media.
Poponi said the TSX, TL and RL were cannibalizing sales because they were too close in footprint and interior size. The new models will create a bigger spread in the lineup.
Changes in the crossover categories also are coming, with a redesigned RDX compact arriving next spring and the next MDX in 2013.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2011...#ixzz1hHNFK1bA
After years of trying to propel Acura into the front ranks with Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Lexus, Honda says it will settle for offering mid-level premium vehicles that favor fuel economy over performance.
With one exception: At the Detroit auto show next month, Honda will bring back the Ferrari-fighting Acura NSX -- a new version of the mid-engine supercar that disappeared in 2005 after a 15-year run. But instead of a monster engine, the NSX will have a compact, direct-injection V-6 teamed with a lithium ion battery pack. Another key to recalibrating Acura is the rollout of three new or redesigned sedans in the next 18 months, including a smaller compact and a bigger flagship.
"We are not satisfied with Acura's current positioning," Honda Motor Co. CEO Takanobu Ito said this month at the Tokyo Motor Show. "We want to showcase interesting and fun technologies and show excellent environmental performance."
In the works for Acura:
-- The ILX compact sedan will arrive in spring, using Honda's global Civic platform. It replaces the tired TSX that used the bones of the European Accord.
-- A redesigned RL flagship that is larger than the current version is due next fall.
-- A redesigned mid-sized TL sedan follows in the spring of 2013.
"Our sedans haven't been doing the job for the brand," said Vicki Poponi, American Honda assistant vice president for product planning, at a briefing here for dealers and the media.
Poponi said the TSX, TL and RL were cannibalizing sales because they were too close in footprint and interior size. The new models will create a bigger spread in the lineup.
Changes in the crossover categories also are coming, with a redesigned RDX compact arriving next spring and the next MDX in 2013.
In using the Civic as the basis for the ILX, Acura is traveling the same platform-sharing course it did with its Integra and RSX coupes in the 1980s and 1990s. But Poponi said the ILX will bear no resemblance to the Civic or the Canadian-market Acura CSX, which has been derided as a rebadged Civic.
"All the suspension settings will be tuned to be Acura," Poponi said. "Consider it as different as the TL is from the Accord or the MDX is from the Pilot."
The ILX will be available with a choice of a 2.0-liter direct-injection four-cylinder engine with automatic transmission, a 2.4-liter engine with a six-speed manual transmission or a 1.5-liter hybrid powertrain. Features will include push-button start, rearview camera, Pandora link and SMS with text-to-voice capability.
Acura hopes that sales of the ILX, to be priced "well below $30,000," will be about 40,000 units annually. The current-generation TSX peaked at 31,998 sales in 2008.
Next up is the flagship RL, which has had little success competing in the $50,000 sedan segment against the likes of the Mercedes-Benz E class, BMW 5 series and Lexus GS. Critics have called it overweight and underpowered, and the interior is cramped.
Poponi said the redesigned version will have more cabin space, with rear legroom going from worst-in-class to the best-in-class.
"It will have [BMW] 7 series cabin space with the agility of a 5 series," Poponi said. "Our sedans need to instill passion and emotion. The new flagship establishes that, and sets the ceiling for premium pricing. Once we have set that, then our SUVs can come into the market and leverage that prestige."
The RL will debut in April at the New York auto show and go on sale next fall.
As for the RDX, the previous generation has been criticized for the jerkiness of its turbocharged four-cylinder engine. The new RDX will have a V-6 with "top-class fuel economy," Poponi said.
The RDX also will use the Honda CR-V's simpler electric power steering and all-wheel-drive systems, rather than the pricier Super Handling All-Wheel Drive system of the old RDX. Poponi says it will be "quieter, roomier and more comfortable."
Then there is the NSX that arrives in concept form next month in Detroit. The original V-6-powered NSX was decked out with astonishing technology when it debuted in 1990. It was the first car without turbos to deliver 100 hp per liter of engine displacement. It also was the first major project for body engineer Takanobu Ito, now Honda's CEO.
Ito killed a previous NSX concept after the autumn 2008 Lehman Brothers meltdown destroyed Honda's desire to re-enter the segment. The project has been revived, but Ito has changed the concept.
"Our approach is efficiency and a strong power-to-weight ratio," said Acura sales boss Jeff Conrad. "The original NSX did this. But the proposed successor went into the classic world of a heavy vehicle, requiring a V-10 engine and other technologies to be a performance car."
Conrad adds: "That is not Acura DNA. If we are thinking about being sporty, we need to do it with the machine's efficiency. That's the thing we can do. The way we achieve it will be unique to Acura."
In addition to the NSX's compact V-6, the lithium ion battery-powered Sport Hybrid All-Wheel Drive system uses two integrated drive units at the rear wheels connected to a motor-generator that delivers power.
Regenerative brakes will capture electricity and deliver torque to the outside wheel -- while absorbing negative torque from the inside wheel -- as the car goes through a corner.
American Honda President Tetsuo Iwamura did not set a date for the NSX's launch, saying: "We hope within three years. ... As soon as possible."
Too much machine
Despite the NSX's go-fast ambitions, a major part of Acura's new philosophy will be dialing back on performance in exchange for fuel economy. Executives say that today's luxury cars have more power than they need, and that premium-vehicle buyers now care more about mpg than mph.
Conrad said Acura has returned to its original philosophy of elegant engineering and top-of-class fuel economy, and has stopped chasing the elite of the luxury segment. The new slogan: "Smart luxury."
Mike Accavitti, the former head of Dodge who became American Honda's vice president of marketing in August, describes the current luxury market as "too much machine and not enough humanity."
Said Accavitti: "Our overweight bodies require overweight engines and more safety systems to protect them. Some of these cars the average driver just can't control. We have been increasing performance beyond the ability of the driver, or we have complicated the driving process."
Poponi said of Acura's previous batch of products: "Our engineering ego was getting in the way."
Peaks and valleys
American Honda hopes this philosophy can stabilize Acura's sales, which have peaked twice -- once in the early 1990s and again in setting a brand record in 2005, at 209,610 units. But each time things fell apart because of ill-conceived products and faulty marketing -- not to mention the recent recession. This year, sales through November were down 7 percent to 110,170. Honda says short supplies caused by the March earthquake in Japan were a factor.
For a new crop of customers, Honda is looking at Generation Y. The leading edge of that generation is turning 30, and Honda says the generation's top priorities are exterior styling, price and environmental friendliness.
"A good sound system" finished fifth in its research, and less than 20 percent care about high performance, Honda says.
"Technology is only as good as the driver," said Gary Evert, division director for advanced automotive planning at Acura r&d. "The vehicle almost always has more capability than the driver can handle. Anything outside the customer's understanding is waste."
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2011...#ixzz1hHNRmArA
"All the suspension settings will be tuned to be Acura," Poponi said. "Consider it as different as the TL is from the Accord or the MDX is from the Pilot."
The ILX will be available with a choice of a 2.0-liter direct-injection four-cylinder engine with automatic transmission, a 2.4-liter engine with a six-speed manual transmission or a 1.5-liter hybrid powertrain. Features will include push-button start, rearview camera, Pandora link and SMS with text-to-voice capability.
Acura hopes that sales of the ILX, to be priced "well below $30,000," will be about 40,000 units annually. The current-generation TSX peaked at 31,998 sales in 2008.
Next up is the flagship RL, which has had little success competing in the $50,000 sedan segment against the likes of the Mercedes-Benz E class, BMW 5 series and Lexus GS. Critics have called it overweight and underpowered, and the interior is cramped.
Poponi said the redesigned version will have more cabin space, with rear legroom going from worst-in-class to the best-in-class.
"It will have [BMW] 7 series cabin space with the agility of a 5 series," Poponi said. "Our sedans need to instill passion and emotion. The new flagship establishes that, and sets the ceiling for premium pricing. Once we have set that, then our SUVs can come into the market and leverage that prestige."
The RL will debut in April at the New York auto show and go on sale next fall.
As for the RDX, the previous generation has been criticized for the jerkiness of its turbocharged four-cylinder engine. The new RDX will have a V-6 with "top-class fuel economy," Poponi said.
The RDX also will use the Honda CR-V's simpler electric power steering and all-wheel-drive systems, rather than the pricier Super Handling All-Wheel Drive system of the old RDX. Poponi says it will be "quieter, roomier and more comfortable."
Then there is the NSX that arrives in concept form next month in Detroit. The original V-6-powered NSX was decked out with astonishing technology when it debuted in 1990. It was the first car without turbos to deliver 100 hp per liter of engine displacement. It also was the first major project for body engineer Takanobu Ito, now Honda's CEO.
Ito killed a previous NSX concept after the autumn 2008 Lehman Brothers meltdown destroyed Honda's desire to re-enter the segment. The project has been revived, but Ito has changed the concept.
"Our approach is efficiency and a strong power-to-weight ratio," said Acura sales boss Jeff Conrad. "The original NSX did this. But the proposed successor went into the classic world of a heavy vehicle, requiring a V-10 engine and other technologies to be a performance car."
Conrad adds: "That is not Acura DNA. If we are thinking about being sporty, we need to do it with the machine's efficiency. That's the thing we can do. The way we achieve it will be unique to Acura."
In addition to the NSX's compact V-6, the lithium ion battery-powered Sport Hybrid All-Wheel Drive system uses two integrated drive units at the rear wheels connected to a motor-generator that delivers power.
Regenerative brakes will capture electricity and deliver torque to the outside wheel -- while absorbing negative torque from the inside wheel -- as the car goes through a corner.
American Honda President Tetsuo Iwamura did not set a date for the NSX's launch, saying: "We hope within three years. ... As soon as possible."
Too much machine
Despite the NSX's go-fast ambitions, a major part of Acura's new philosophy will be dialing back on performance in exchange for fuel economy. Executives say that today's luxury cars have more power than they need, and that premium-vehicle buyers now care more about mpg than mph.
Conrad said Acura has returned to its original philosophy of elegant engineering and top-of-class fuel economy, and has stopped chasing the elite of the luxury segment. The new slogan: "Smart luxury."
Mike Accavitti, the former head of Dodge who became American Honda's vice president of marketing in August, describes the current luxury market as "too much machine and not enough humanity."
Said Accavitti: "Our overweight bodies require overweight engines and more safety systems to protect them. Some of these cars the average driver just can't control. We have been increasing performance beyond the ability of the driver, or we have complicated the driving process."
Poponi said of Acura's previous batch of products: "Our engineering ego was getting in the way."
Peaks and valleys
American Honda hopes this philosophy can stabilize Acura's sales, which have peaked twice -- once in the early 1990s and again in setting a brand record in 2005, at 209,610 units. But each time things fell apart because of ill-conceived products and faulty marketing -- not to mention the recent recession. This year, sales through November were down 7 percent to 110,170. Honda says short supplies caused by the March earthquake in Japan were a factor.
For a new crop of customers, Honda is looking at Generation Y. The leading edge of that generation is turning 30, and Honda says the generation's top priorities are exterior styling, price and environmental friendliness.
"A good sound system" finished fifth in its research, and less than 20 percent care about high performance, Honda says.
"Technology is only as good as the driver," said Gary Evert, division director for advanced automotive planning at Acura r&d. "The vehicle almost always has more capability than the driver can handle. Anything outside the customer's understanding is waste."
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2011...#ixzz1hHNRmArA
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2011...#ixzz1hHNFK1bA
guess he don't know squat for what they have planned. allow me to clue him in -- overweight, fwd highly contented appliance with non-folding rear seats
12-26-2011, 01:42 PM
#67
BMW has done separate Sport & luxury lines with M Sport package coming later.
You have to look at Acura RL interior to compare to BMW 3.
Even TL interior cannot compare. The point is BMW offer so much more for essentailly lower price than Acura built in USA or Japan.
You have to look at Acura RL interior to compare to BMW 3.
Even TL interior cannot compare. The point is BMW offer so much more for essentailly lower price than Acura built in USA or Japan.
12-26-2011, 02:00 PM
#68
everyone who is flipping a shit, calm down, the ILX is being built off the civic PLATFORM, not based off the civic, its a completely seperate car. Dont forget that the accord PLATFORM gets passed around more than ed's mom. The ILX is getting it's own sheetmetal and interior and will likely share some internals with the civic, but then again, who doesnt? that includes us.
The following users liked this post:
TSXKid2010 (12-26-2011)
12-26-2011, 02:04 PM
#69
I think it's a good move, all their sedans are really close in size. We should really wait until the car is shown and see what it has to offer. They need a small car in the segment to compete against the 1 series, A3, Lexus CT, MB is coming out with their A class, etc...
12-28-2011, 07:20 AM
#70
Interesting reading varioius posts on Acura lineup etc. I bought a 2011 TSX and am very happy with it. Great mileage, quality etc. German cars are great vehicles but check any car magazine that discusses quality etc. and they can't compare to Acura/Honda etc. That for my $$ is very important these days. A few years back my doctor had 2 Mercedes. Him and his wife. He said it seemed like one was always in the shop. He later sold both and bought Acura's. Said the best move he ever made. I hate though the thought of this new ILX version of a Civic. Heck the latest Civic's been beat up in the press etc. and Honda moving up next change on it's design. Now they want to slap an A on it? Might opt for a TL next go around so anxious to see what they do there. As for the RL, see very few around. Reviews not as glowing as with other luxury vehicles.
Hey, at least Acura dumped the Jack Nicholson Joker smiley face on the TL.
Anyway, i'm happy with my 11 TSX. And look forward to a couple more years before retirement and then perhaps a TL?? Happy New Year to all.
Hey, at least Acura dumped the Jack Nicholson Joker smiley face on the TL.
Anyway, i'm happy with my 11 TSX. And look forward to a couple more years before retirement and then perhaps a TL?? Happy New Year to all.
12-28-2011, 11:15 AM
#72
Everyday I'm rofling
12-28-2011, 10:08 PM
#75
Drifting
I think the photo in post #47 is confusing people (and myself included) into thinking the ILX is a fancy Civic. Based on reading this article, I'm doubting my first thoughts: http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...tem_id=1020643 I can only hope that something like this is in order for the ILX and not the CSX in American form.
I'm still scratching my head on the BMW photos and why those are relevant in this thread but the 3 series does have a nice interior now so maybe the ILX can borrow aspects of it and that would be OK.
I'm still scratching my head on the BMW photos and why those are relevant in this thread but the 3 series does have a nice interior now so maybe the ILX can borrow aspects of it and that would be OK.
12-28-2011, 10:34 PM
#76
Summer is Coming
The bottom line is we'll all have to wait and see what the ILX and TSX/TL will be like and what they have to offer. I'll give them a chance. I don't mind a car based on the Civic or Accord platform. It is all in how you finish it, what features they offer, what level of materials. Future buyers are going to be more conscience of fuel economy. Look at what BMW is offering with the new 3-series. Much better fuel economy, even a hybrid coming, combined with BMW handling and luxury features. Acura needs to work on their fuel economy and I think that has a lot to do with their recent moves. I'm happy to keep an open mind and see what they come up with.
12-29-2011, 09:21 AM
#77
I wouldn't be surprised if Honda continues to offer something like the TSX, but in the guise of an Accord Si or Type-R. This could happen if Honda consolidates the Accord onto a single global platform, and offers a high performance four cylinder 6MT version. Ford is moving in this direction, with the next Fusion sharing a platform with the European Mondeo, and with the brutal competition encouraging efficiency, Honda might do the same with the Accord. This could actually lead to higher volumes due to more numerous Honda dealerships, and might more effectively capture folks "moving up" from the Civic Si.
I'd prefer an Acura that takes on the 3 Series directly, with RWD (AWD optional) and sedan, coupe, convertible, and wagon versions. But I know it won't happen.
I'd prefer an Acura that takes on the 3 Series directly, with RWD (AWD optional) and sedan, coupe, convertible, and wagon versions. But I know it won't happen.
12-29-2011, 05:32 PM
#79
Summer is Coming
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Acura_Dude (12-29-2011)