deepen03

Sad day for us TSX owners.. It's a disgrace if they do this! I have read conflicting reports though.. some say it may be a companion to the TSX, but others say it's meant to replace it and start at under 25K pricing.. idk

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...2013-acura-ilx

oh and not built in Japan anymore.. what a shame.

The TSX is a great car because of the fact that it's built in Japan. It has much more reliability than any other Acuras for that reason alone.

pickler

no it won't replace the TSX, at least thats what my dealership told me. The ILX is the CSX that was on sale in canada i think from 2004-2011. The CSX was the asian honda civic 2.0s. it was a complete failure in canada.

Mr. NC

The ILX will replace the TSX, as a smaller sedan, bigger than the CSX but smaller than the TSX and the new TL will be TSX/TL mixed sizewise. The RL gets redone, and can maybe finally be a competitor to the Lexus LS and the other big body sedans.

CSX wasn't a total fail, I see many on the road. It aint no ZDX fail....lol

TSXKid2010

This thread will replace the other 3-4 current threads on this topic, wait what?

Acura_Dude

Mr. NC

Well you know since we have a 3 CAI or wheel fitment advice thread popping up weekly, naturally this would happen...stop being such a dick TSXKID

TSXKid2010

well because of this my thread is losing exposure so

loljk idgaf abut thread exposure. BUT. yeah man ILX isn't replacing anything. it's just going before the TSX and the need for a TSX will be re-assessed

pickler

thank you! TSX won't be replaced there is 2013 model still to be released. And CSX was a failure in sales because since 2006 sales have been decreasing to incredibly low numbers for such a price point.

ed_423

tsx is being replaced?! wtf man. first time hearing it!

haha jk, but i hope they dont cut the tsx...acura wtf are you doing man!

PyroDave

acura spoke all about this, due to the large demand of the SHIELD cars from the new comic movies, they are putting those in production and leaving the TSX and TL as only special order productions. they said they will wait for a certain region of the US to request two dozen, then produce and frieght them in. read it here

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tsx-2009-2014-143/search-guide-new-users-840891/

TSXKid2010

^ Hey Pyro dave, isn't posting that this thread is a repeat thread after people have already said it's a repeat thread kinda the same? I mean it's both reposting information that's been posted already...

PyroDave

yes, but i've taken your bland debauchery and spiced it up with some imagination, and provided a link to some extremely valuable information

Civic2TSX

I see the CSX all the time in Miami when the snowbirds come down for the winter. I remember the first time I saw one, I was like what the f*ck is that? A frankencivic? It's a very odd looking car, IMO. I guess bc I never even knew they existed back then. I think I liked it better before the front end changed to a plenum style. The back still looks like a 2004 civic sedan.

Craig-D

Acura has stated it is committed to a three sedan lineup and they want a more clear size distinction between them. A RL replacement is confirmed, as is the new ILX (I'm betting that won't be the final name). That means either the TL or the TSX is going away - or a new model sized between them will be introduced as the new mid-level sedan.

Acura would like the ILX to steer people out of 3 series and A4s, but a $25-27k vehicle built off the Civic platform with less than 200hp isn't going to make that happen. It's a huge mistake for Acura. They think they can outsell the Germans to young customers with low pricing, but they are missing the point: People of any age shopping luxury cars want prestige and they are willing to pay a premium for it. I myself won't be caught dead in an Acura Civic, and now that the TSX can no longer be had with Nav and a stick (my two must-haves), I'll be running into the waiting arms of the Germans once my lease is up. The Caddy ATX shows promise too, so I'll also give that a look.

mrgold35

I think Acura would have more sells if they offered a V-6 sh-awd TSX sport wagon. You can’t do much in a civic besides use as a commuter car.

I would also go for a smaller car if it was based off the Accord coupe and they offered a convertible coupe also. I would be fine with ILX being an Acura "Accord" coupe with a 2.4L I4, 3.5L DI V-6 or 3.5L DI V-6 with sh-awd (6AT and 6MT available).

deepen03

Exactly! And look the TSX is pretty much an A4/3 series.. what Acura should do is make the TL more luxurious and maybe bigger, add a V8 to compete with the GS/5 series.. then drop the RL and make a more powerful TSX, maybe SH-Awd to compete with x-drive 3 series and quattro A4s.. Oh and GET RID OF THAT SALES LAGGING ZDX! what a waste! Dropping the TSX is NOT SMART.. This car saved Acura in 2003 and ask anyone, they LOVE IT! I have the 2004 and still love it..

PPower

The 04 TL was just as helpful as the TSX was. The TL and RL are virtually redundant, and the TSX isn't far from it in V6 form. Combining the TSX/TL makes perfect sense, and that is what current TSX owners will be looking at anyways. What makes me the MOST hesitant about anything built on the Civic platform is, well, the all new Honda Civic.

pickler

the current TSX V6 is heavier than prev generation TL. Again, the CSX is the asian civic 2.0s

Nedmundo

I don't think Acura has any illusions about the ILX going up against the 3 Series and A4. Those cars are in a different universe, and Acura knows it. I've read it's directed at the 1 Series and A3, and I'd toss in the GTI and Jetta GLI as well. Essentially, it will be a slightly luxurious sport compact, a category now owned by the Volkswagens. It could do well, but it will need more performance than the new Civic Si, and a really solid interior. If it has the spirit of the Integra GS-R, but with a nicer interior and less engine/road noise, I'll dig it.

The upcoming TSX/TL replacement might really go head-to-head with the A4 and new, slightly larger 3 Series. Let's hope the driving experience make it a legitimate competitor.

tvac

Acura's marketeers are having one hell of a time figuring out how to play today's game of Luxury Vehicle. It seems to me that there are primarily 4 sweet-spots to the sedan luxury market, everything else is a blur somewhere at the fringe or between these segments. Acura's marketing likes to play at the fringes apparently.

Starting at the bottom, you've got your "premium compact" or "small-luxury". Think Audi A3 or BMW 1 series. Acura abandoned this market when it deep-sixed the RSX. This market is Acura's for the taking. It would be nice to see them return with a strong offering.

Moving up in size and cost is the entry-level luxury class typified by cars like the Lexus ES, BMW 3 series, Audi A4 and of course our beloved TSX. I think the 3G TL was slotted in this category but not the 4G. Based on size, weight, cost, and features this is the sweet-spot of the sweet-spots IMHO. I can't see how Acura could abandon a strong contender like TSX in this market.

Next class is the mid-luxury which includes autos like BMW 5 and Audi A6. I think Acura thinks the 4G TL belongs in this segment but the slight size and weight differences between the 4G TL and TSX V6 creates an identity crisis for them and there is no question that TL sales have been cannibalized by the 2G TSX especially in V6 trim.

The next major market is high-end luxury, not to be confused with ultra-luxury, typified by the Audi A8 and BMW 7 series. I'm not sure, but I think the Acura marketeers want the RL to work in this segment. Problem is, for a number of reasons, it belongs with the mid-luxury cars right alongside the TL. Yet another marketing blunder and I'm sure TL sales cannibalize RL sales.

pickler

The ilx engines options will be a 1.8, 2.4 and hybrid 1.5

anticd70

This is what I feel is going to happen....

ILX - 1 option only for all 3 versions is NAV
Manual - 201 HP 4cyl $25,500-26,800
Automatic - 201 HP 4 cyl $26,800-$28,100
Automatic - Hyrbrid $29,990-$31,290

TSX
Wagon - 4 cyl automatic only w/ option NAV $31,160-$34810
Sedan - V6 automatic only w/ option NAV $35,350-$38450

TL - V6 Automatic only 305hp AWD standard w/ the only option being Nav
$39,155-$45,085

RL - I dont know theyre making a 2013 and I think theyr should drop the line all togethr :surrender

Colin

All you TSX owners should be cheering the ILX. Had Acura introduced this car as the 'new' TSX at it's projected price point, your resale values would have taken a hit.

It seems obvious that Acura wants to lower the entry point for the brand. There is only so much they could do on the Accord chassis, especially with the TSX being made in Japan.

So the best choice is to make the new car in the US, use a less expensive chassis, and give it a new name. This way it can overlap the current TSX and it won't disrupt resale values or lease residuals that are already set. When the new TL and TSX are ready to debut, they'll blend these two into one name plate (if these rumors are true).

PyroDave

wouldnt an ILX being introduced actually increase resale value of a TSX. especially a 2012 or possibly 2013. it would literally be the last of its kind, as the ILX would be US made, the 2012/13 TSX would be the last ones brought in from japan, so those that want one, would have to buy a used one, and would do so at a premium, because there arent any more, and choices are limited. also, colin i doubt it, but do you know if we'll be getting the 13 as a last one or will 2012 be the end. and what are the chances of a manual tech being released prior to the end

JAB00

Acura is just going down the drain. The ZDX is a complete failure. The only thing good they have going is the MDX and the TSX. Both are very attractive cars. The ILX will be a complete failure. Isn't that the reason they got rid of the RSX? They wanted to go more premium? Now they are introducing a sub $27K car based on the Civic? That makes no sense. It will not compete with the A4, BMW 3, Mercedes C or Lexus IS. My 05 TL is my last Acura sedan. I'd consider the MDX (as long as that is not screwed up either).

TrojanTSX

They should just drop the RL and make the TL the new flagship since most people opt for that car anyway. The TSX should have the turbo that Honda is moving towards for their 4 cyl lines and the CSX should be the replacement of the RSX that went away.

My opinion.

SSFTSX

There is no indication that Euro Accord is being replaced in EU. They started building Honda version of TSX in China. As long as EuroAccord are exported to rest of the world. They cannot combine TL and TSX into one size.

Any TL clone being built in US is not going to be exported to EU with diesel. Unless Honda want to introduce 1.6L diesel in TL.
TL will be exclusively V6. THere is no diesel factory in US for Honda and Honda is not making any V6 smaller than 3.5.
There will be no small V6 compete with upcoming IS250/IS300H and next G25/G350H.
with sales of Honda Accord declining relative to Altima, Camry, Fusion,Passat, Sonata they cannot make it any smaller than 190inch. which is simply too large for EU.
They need car in 183~185 inch range for EU

baksdak

I have read several articles as well. Seems as though Acura is committing to a THREE car lineup.

1. ILX
2. TL or TSX or replacement in between
3. RL or a replacement for the RL

I laugh at those who say the TSX is a competitor to the 3 series or A4 or C class...what a load of crap. Will be interesting come January at the Detroit Auto Show.

I will probably be jumping ship from Acura next year anyway. Unless, something sways me to the TL SH-AWD.

PyroDave

i absolutely think that a TSX is a competitor to the 3 series, A4, and C-class. the main difference is speed, prestige, and price. TSX fully wins in price. the TSX isn't as fast as the other 3, but is alot more fuel efficient, and many do consider acura luxury, considering most of the options for the other 3 that add another 10K to MSRP are standard on the TSX. and even bone stock, which would make any of the other 3 a shitty drive, TSX costs alot less. so yes i believe its a valid competitor. PS: i have a C300 and a 2010 base TSX. i know what im talking about

spyked

Can we just be real for a second here? Painful but true:

Acura trying to compete with anything but Lexus or Infiniti is just ridiculous. Why oh why does Acura go messing with tried and true formulas to chase buyers they will NEVER get?

What German car buyer/driver is looking at an origami-styled Japanese car? TSX (as good as it is, I have a 2011) doesn't compete with an A4. Even a TL isn't on an A4 buyers radar.

So what, now they want to after GTI/C30 sales with a Civic? Has anyone seen or driven a Civic since 2006? The Mazda3 and Ford Focus eat the Civic's lunch and dinner. The GTI might as well be an A4.

Acura needs to get back it's roots. They've got nothing to lose. Bring back the Integra, Vigor, and Legend names. Make light simple but sturdy and luxurious cars. They won't be top sellers but they will make money. Acura seems to be chasing German car buyer's money but wants to do Toyota volume. Frustrating.

Nedmundo

This basically captures the TSX's place relative to the German cars: It doesn't match their performance, prestige, or luxury, but it's close enough that the much lower price makes it attractive. I'd call it an "indirect" competitor. Many won't cross-shop the TSX against the Germans, but some will. I did, and I actually thought the TSX was pretty close to the M-B C300 in absolute terms, and better in some respects. It wasn't nearly as good a driver's car as the 328i with Sport Package, but to get the BMW equipped similarly would have cost over $40k. (This would have included a mandatory winter wheel/tire set.) It was just too much.

And this, I think, sums up Acura's strategy. It positions its cars below the similarly-sized German cars, and doesn't offer RWD, so they aren't fully direct competitors. They will, however, attract some who appreciate luxury and performance and don't want to spend the exorbitant sums demanded by BMW, M-B, and Audi. The most direct European competition is Volvo. It used to include Saab, with previous TL generations very close to the first gen 9-5 in size, price, and performance. I'd say Infiniti is the most direct Japanese competition, with the G37x pretty close to the TL with SH-AWD.

It's not a bad strategy at all, and with the Germans becoming more bloated and expensive over time, Acura should do well if the cars are executed properly. Of course that's a humongous "if." For example, an proper RL should approach the 5 Series and E Class in overall goodness, at a much lower price. Give the TSX a little more power, great steering feel, and a slightly more substantial feeling interior, and it would be a more direct competitor to the A4, and yet still undercut the Audi by several grand when similarly equipped.

SSFTSX

The problem is now German prices are alot lower with more content. with decline of Euro. They will go down further.
I saw 2013 BMW 3 series starts at $35K when you topoff it with all electronics, LEDs and M Sport package at $45k. even buy BMW service for 8 years/100k miles is cheaper option.
This is alot more car than TL-SH-AWD with fuel economy better than 4 cylidner TSX and 4 year maintainance.
World wide volume of BMW 3, A4, C class is now on such scale now that they are better value than Acura.
I dont see how ILX is going to be better value when it is now going to produced in expensive place like US with no export prospects as it cannot be better than Euro Civic.

iVtecOften

i like the idea of the ilx and hope acura will do well with it

and anyone who thinks the tsx is a competitor to the a 3 series or a4 is fooling themselves!! haha like someone mentioned it might be a indirect competitor due to price but that's it...the acura brand is not on par with the likes of bmw, mb, audi, lexus...more like buick and volvo

i rather drive a stripper 3 series than a fully loaded tsx b/c it offers a better driving experience...

i'm a honda fan and wished honda would just bring back cars like the gsr and prelude sh!

Colin

Dave, maybe I missunderstood what you're saying but I think we're saying the same thing. It is because Acura is releasing the ILX as a new model and not calling it a TSX, that current TSX resale values will be unaffected. It is possible (as you pointed out) that resale values could actually go up as a result of a new model sliding underneath the TSX. Whether this happens or not will probably depend on the content/price ratio of the new car.

As for your other question, I haven't really heard anything yet. Considering the current car came out in 2009, a five year product cycle would seem to suggest there will be a 2013 TSX (another clue would be the fact that the all-new Accord should debut 2012).

baksdak

I respect your opinion. However, I dont write something unless I have proof to back it up. Good for you for having a C300.

In a past life not too long ago I used to work at BOTH a BMW dealership then a Mercedes dealership. I also own a TSX. The vast majority of people do NOT cross shop these vehicles. They are just in a totally different league. The interior of our cars dont even begin to compare. Also, being FWD they drive completely differently. However, a considerable driver in sales of the base German makes is brand cache...so the way they drive often takes a back seat with the women (not all - dont mean to offend) - Audi is a good example as most A4 models sold down here in TX are FWD.

If anyone here actually did cross shop these vehicles, would anyone be willing to admit a reason besides being cheaper that they picked the TSX??

iVtecOften

Lower price is the main reason why ppl pick a tsx over higher marque brands like BMW and Audi, followed by cost of maintenance and reliability...definitely not the difference in driving dynamics...I drive a BMW so I know what I'm taking about!! Haha...just messing with ya pyro!

iVtecOften

And it's for those exact reasons why ppl are excited about the ilx and why Honda believes they can move 40000 units annually...

SSFTSX

Acura had advantage in electronics and high seating position of TSX.
Civic seat low on ground and for that reason i didnot chose BMW 3.
Now BMW interior in new 3 series has greatly improved and provide much advance electronics and lighting.
Acura is trying to create souped up Civic market which is simply not there.
There more stronger contender VW Golf GTI once you pass $25k mark for a small car.

LaCostaRacer

I really doubt Acura will replace the TSX. Why would Acura invest in making a wagon model of the TSX last year if it was going away so soon? This wagon outsells the RL and ZDX models combined so I doubt that is going away before the RL dies.

The sales of both TSX and TL have been very close about 2500 per month +/- 200. The MDX gets about 3300 per month as the leader of the pack. However the sedan sum dwarfs the MDX sales pretty well so it would be tough removing either model. I could see the V6 TSX going away possibly since the V6 doesn't seem to be a great seller anyway.

My money is on the RL going away- it has been a pretty slow seller bagging just 45 sales last month. It never made sense taking the RSX out as the entry level model anyway.

SSFTSX

My own theory is that TL has to go as this car simply does not have any market outside US except for small sales in China. with declining US sales. it does not make any sense.
You can see the recent new engine tests of Honda earth dreams. where 1.6L diesel was tested on EuroAccord. TL is not even available in Japan.
Honda simply cannot afford TSX and TL. They have to chose one. and they will naturally chose the one which has more international appeal and diesel certified.
Honda is secretly testing diesel version of Euro Accord in India. that car is not available there. car is debadged.



That diesel powered mid size sedan is confirmed.