Omega751

I recently bought a 2010 TSX MT and I'm extremely happy. It's a Palladium w/ Navi and took about 3 months to get. I traded in my '06 TSX AT and it's like a completely different car, in a good way. I have a question about the recommended shift points. The manual states that you should shift from 1st to 2nd at 17mph, 2nd to 3rd at 29mph, 3rd to 4th at 37mph, 4th to 5th at 43 mph and 5th to 6th at 49mph. As I am fairly new to driving stick and I feel like this is a little off. For those of you who drive a MT, what do you recommend? I'm getting used to the feel of the car and I could essentially be in 5th or 6th gear a lower mph than I thought and base my shifts primarily on RPMs. I can hear the engine wanting a higher gear as well sometimes. I know that the higher the gear, the better the fuel economy, etc.

Also, I see that a lot of people talk about the steering feel of the new TSX. I'm very satisfied with the steering and really like the thicker steering wheel and how it electronically tightens when cornering, etc. Along with the MT, that's probably my favorite aspect of the 2nd gen.

One more quick question, when you park do you typically leave it in gear (1st or reverse)? Or, can you just leave it in neutral (parking brake on of course). I've seen people do it either way.

Thanks

09TSXTech

Congrats.

Shift according to the manual will give you higher fuel economy (mpg). You are right about getting to the higher gear sooner will result in better fuel economy. But to really get the car going, I shift @ around 3,500rpm for normal driving and upto 5,000rpm for more spirited run.

Am glad you like the new EPS.

When park, I always leave it in 1st gear plus parking brake. It's gives double protection against rolling.

Nedmundo

When parking, I always leave it in gear. In my old Saab, you had to shift into reverse to remove the key, so obviously those safety-minded Swedes think it's a good idea.

In normal (i.e., slow) driving, I probably shift earlier than suggested in the manual, but for medium acceleration I'm probably close to it. As long as you're not lugging the engine -- and you'll feel it if you do -- don't worry about it. Shifting a little early will save fuel.

I'm still irritated by the poor on-center feel of the EPS, but it tracks reasonably well, and off-center it's really precise. I also suspect better on-center feel might be possible with different tires.

ttk5

Good to heard your enjoying the car. When it comes to parking, I to leave the car in gear; 1st gear when I'm facing an up hill and reverse when I'm facing down hill. :P

Omega751

Thanks. Does anyone know a good site to order euro shift knobs? I really like the one on the Euro Accord, which kind of looks like the one on the new TL.

Nedmundo

I paid attention yesterday, and found that in city driving with slow acceleration, I shift earlier than suggested in the manual. I shift around 2,300 rpm, which is around 12 mph into second, and 19 mph into third. Works fine. For medium acceleration, I shift around 3,000 rpm.

If you find a good shift knob alternative, let us know. I'm interested too.

ressling

always a good idea to leave your car in gear when parked. Doesn't necessarily matter what gear, just A GEAR (don't leave it in neutral!).

Also always a good idea to be in a gear (not neutral) when at a stoplight.

HeavyDuty

For around town, unless I'm duking it out with a 911 Turbo, I shift 1,3,5,6. Plenty of low end torque to move me away swiftly.

Nedmundo

Yes, the (surprising) torque and close ratios allow this approach. I've done the 1-3 thing a few times. The gear I skip most often is fifth. I'll often go 4-6 for the highway merge-cruise transition.

ezshift5

6M Accord V-6 new 2005. Looking hard at the TSX 6M. Wonder if I'll painfully miss the acceleration of the V-6 6M coupe?

The idea of better MPG appeals (not that the V6 6M is that bad).......comments on the 4 cylinder's accel apprec. big time.

C/D IIRC indicates a 6.7 1/4 mile - - - - that's only 1/10 second slower than a Supra Turbo I had a few moons ago.......

all the best, ez...

Jonnie5

so in first going up to 3500rpm and then shifting into third?? is that ok for our cars? skipping gears?

docboy

One of the benefits of driving a manual transmission. You can skip gears to the one you want without having to row through every single one, which an automatic cannot do.

Jonnie5

Oic cool... yea i notice i skip down from 5-3 all the time, but i've never skipping going up before... so quick question.. im still pretty new to rev matching, so i don't always hit the rpms exact is that ok? like if i downshift from 4-3 going 2000rpm in forth... do u guys just remember where 3rd is gonna be? from 4-3-2 i always try to think add 500-1000rpms when down shifting is that a good consensus?? Also if my rpms arn't match perfectly (say 100-500 over or under) there is a very slight either jolt or lag depending on if im over or under... bad for my tranny?

HeavyDuty

It's harder for me to rev match with the slow as hell drive-by-wire that doesn't allow me to blip the throttle like I could with a cable.

Skipping gears doesn't hurt the tranny, slipping the clutch while doing it up or down would be the only damage I can really think of.

If you work at it, you can even get to where you engage the clutch for 1st, then shift clutchless all the way up. I do that sometimes, too. If it crunches between gears, you're not doing it right, but with a little finesse & rev matching, it's pretty easy and it doesn't hurt the tranny either.

RogerPodacter

I have first generation tsx but it still applies. For the first few years i didn't put my car in gear while parked on a flat surface. Well one day i must not have pulled the brake all the way and my car rolled down the street. Lucky nothing was hit or damaged my car. Lesson learned. My thinking was with the car in neutral if an earthquake happened the tranny wouldn't get shredded. Stupid thought.

For shifting i stay conservative. I've gotten so good with my car that i rev match exactly pretty much all the time. But it literally took years to master. But its a great feeling

You can skip gears but you don't wanna wear out your synchros early. The larger difference in rpm puts more wear and tear on the synchro. So when i skip gears i try to wait till the rpm's are closer to whichever gear before putting it into that gear to reduce synchro wear.

StonedCL

iTrader: (1)

Do it like I do and just wait till the needle on the RPMS hits the red line b4 shifting!

Tishkevich

iTrader: (3)

i used to skip gears going up for conservative driving as well, but i just practiced going through all 6 gears for a while, and now I can drive conservatively 1,2,3,4,5,6 with no real head bob or discomfort for passengers..
as for rev match I always try to go above my target rev if anything never below, cause I can still drop the clutch and if i miss it the car might lurch forward but the clutch its self still locks into place with out much wear on the components.

I think the best part about our car is the light and easy clutch, it responds well and is very easy to get used to, now in terms of teaching someone how to drive a stick on a six speed i dont' recommend. its nearly impossible to drive by clutch only not enough love from the engine, damn gear ratios.. so don't teach your girl how to drive on it! i learned the hard way.. at least she didn't grind gears! she ust stalled lol.

The car is yours to do as you please, nothing you do to the tranny will break it tomorrow unless you don't use the clutch at all. The beginning is always rough, but you'll have it down in no time GL :o)

ttk5

I've taught 3 girls how to drive my car and 4 dudes ...I honestly think im the best stick driver teacher lol

RogerPodacter

How in depth do you go when teaching girls? I tried teaching one of my ex girlfriends but she had a lot of trouble just grasping the basics but i was about to try explaining about how clutch wear is bad and how to match rpm's etc which to me are kinda part of the basics. But i guess that stuff would be the next step to teach. I dunno she just had a really hard time with stick and gave up. She would ask me questions like why do i put it into neutral when exiting the freeway to coast to a stop, etc.

SilverCU3

I used to drive a racing Mini modified for road use. It had straight cut gears and no synchro so the only way to shift was to match the revs exactly when selecting gears.

It's a good habit to learn and can be practiced even with a modern gearbox. When you want the next gear just make sure the revs are right and push the lever - no clutch needed!

Anyone who's driven older military vehicles will have perfected this, too.

ttk5

When teaching girls i do not get in depth at all. I teach them first the basics of how the car stalls ( when your in gear and not enough gas is going to the engine ) and how to come to a complete stop ( clutch in and put in neutral )

I find a flat empty parking lot and goal 1 is to teach her how to get the car moving without using the gas pedal at all. This is pretty easy and doesn't require her to focus on 2 pedals etc. I usually just tell them to depress the clutch all the way, and slowly let off until the car starts to rumble and move forward. Once this happens, hold the clutch at that point for a few seconds to gain speed, then slowly let off the clutch. Done.

09TSXTech

Even though Honda/Acura make some of the smoothest MT around, I would hesistate to let some novice practicing shifting in a new car.

Luckily for me, my wife learned how to drive a stick when she was a teenager.

Tishkevich

iTrader: (3)

I didn't even know you don't have to use the clutch if you match the rpms, I rev match but I still use the clutch, I guess I'm not really rev matching huh? Weird. Explain how this is done exactly?

Tishkevich

iTrader: (3)

yep yep

+1

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

You will painfully miss the acceleration of your accord. The accord 6MT is over 1 full second faster through the 1/4 mile and traps about 8-10MPH faster. It is not that the TSX 6MT is slow but think of 200HP and 3500lbs of weight and that will give you a good idea vs the accord at 240hp and 3280lbs for the 6MT accord. Even more important is that torque number and the accord surpasess the TSX by a good 40+ ft lbs of tq. That would be the only reason not to trade out your accord for this car because everything else that the TSX offers is great.

SilverCU3

Pressing the clutch pedal simply disconnects drive from the engine to the gearbox, thereby stopping the rotations from reaching the wheels.

All the time you haven't got your foot on the clutch pedal, the engine rotates the input shaft on the gearbox at the indicated engine RPM. This rotation is then transferred through the relevent gears to reach the wheels.

Imagine your engine is turning at, say, 5,000RPM in 3rd gear and your car is moving at 60mph. If you change up a gear (to 4th) but keep the same road speed (60mph) then you allow the the engine speed to reduce to, say, 3,000RPM before releasing the clutch. When you release the clutch, the wheels are again connected to the engine, but this time through a higher gear.

Essentially, what you are doing when you change gear is judging the amount of revs the engine will need to have so it matches the speed of the wheels after taking into account the gearing. The clutch is providing a degree of tolerance which allows you to 'slip' the connection between engine and gearbox until their revolutions match. If you (assisted by the synchromesh in the gearbox) get this right then you have a smooth gearchange. Get this wrong and you throw your passengers through the windshield or pin them against their seats.

With practice, you can match these revolutions EXACTLY and not need the 'slip' of the clutch. It's far easier to achieve this going up a gear than it is coming down.

Drive at a steady speed (60mph?) in 4th gear. Pull the shifter out of gear and leave it in neutral. Use the throttle pedal to hold the engine at the amount of revs the engine needs to maintain 60mph in 5th gear, and then push it into 5th. When it's right, it goes in easily with no clutch needed!!

WARNING: practice on someone else's car as it's going to make some horrible noises until you perfect it

wonton

Putting it in gear at a stoplight will wear out the clutch faster. i say keep it in neutral to avoid wearing out the clutch.

Also when you get good at stick you can get out of gear without using the clutch.

SilverCU3

Keeping the pedal depressed won't actually wear out the clutch itself, but it will definitely wear out the release bearing.

I always sit at stoplights with the car in neutral and my foot on the brake. That way, if someone hits me from behind I don't get shunted into the car in front.

Omega751

I've been told you should always downshift when coming to a stoplight, etc. If you're in 4th or 5th gear and you see a stoplight ahead, can you just slip it into neutral and essentially coast to a stop? Just wondering if that hurts the engine at all. I always downshift and when I reach 2nd or 1st I put it in neutral. You guys know a lot more about this than I do since I just started driving stick so what do you suggest?

SilverCU3

It won't hurt the engine but it will wear out your brakes faster as you're relying 100% on them to stop you. The advantage of a manual transmission over an auto is that you can exploit the braking capability of the engine by doing exactly what you said - downshifting when slowing down. Just be sympathetic and don't slam it into a lower gear causing the revs to soar.

Downshifting to a halt also enables you to accelerate again if you need to as you're already in the right gear

ttk5

I love to engine brake

RogerPodacter

I used to down shift coming to a stop but i stopped doing this long ago. It really puts added stress unnecessary and wear and tear on the engine and tranny. I much prefer putting into neutral and coasting to a stop with my foot off the clutch. I highly recommend this instead. Break pads are much cheaper to replace than a clutch and/or tranny. This does no harm at al and actually prolongs the life of the components. Of course in certain situations you need to engine brake by down shifting. But coming to a red light when you know for sure you will be completely stopped, or exiting a freeway where you know you will be stopped, i totally recommend neutral and coasting with no clutch or engine braking.

And yes its very possible to shift without using the clutch at all. First gear needs clutch to get going. But second thru sixth, if you can do it perfectly, you can pull the shifter from second into third, just like a regular shift, without using the clutch at all. I've done it a few times but never got good enough to do it all the time. Too much grinding when you don't do it perfectly.

Lately i have been practicing on getting out of gear into neutral without using the clutch. I figure why waste clutch master cylinder wear and tear just to go into neutral. To do this you have to make sure there is no load on the engine drive train whatsoever. No acceleration or decceleration at all, must be perfectly balanced with no load so the gear just easily slips out into neutral without depressing the clutch.

Tishkevich

iTrader: (3)

'
man I don't even want to try that, that sounds scary lol but cool i didn't know you didn' tneed the clutch at all , down shifting is my friend I rarely use the brakes lol

ttk5

yea word. i didnt know that either. for down shifting being your friend.

wonton

It's ok to downshift but it's more toll on your engine, tranny and clutch. Brakes are there for a reason and it's alot cheaper to replace then your clutch. Also you have to remember when you downshift at night time, you are not using your parking light so some dumb ass can rear end you if they are tailgating and some roads have sign that says no engine braking.

SilverCU3

There's no more wear and tear on the engine and trans than there is when changing gear at any other time or lifting off slightly when you've reached your chosen crusing speed!

Coasting means you have no control over the car other than relying on the brakes. Plussss, if you're worried about undue strain or wear & tear, your alternator isn't charging at full rate when you're coasting (because you're on tickover) so all the drain goes straight to the battery

RogerPodacter

I always prefer to coast to a stop, no engine braking for me. Its just too much unnecessary stress on expensive components.

But you know i swear that when i first bought this car, that when you would coast in neutral at a normal speed that the engine rpm's would stay a little higher around 1.5k rpm. But it doesn't seen to do that any more and when i coast in neutral the rpm's go down to 750 or so. So yes the alternator is not putting out as much power. I wonder if this is bad for stuff like the power steering pump, battery, etc.

SilverCU3

I don't really think it's going to make any difference to anything. I think you'd have a hard job to quantify exactly how much wear & tear is attributable through coasting to a halt, downshifting, or any other practice which doesn't actually directly damage the mechanics.

In the real world, ponderables like this are negated by variables like crosswinds, the roads you travel on, average journey times, how often you brake or change gear, etc, etc.

I maintain that the greatest argument in favour of downshifting is to maintain an extra degree of control over decelleration rather than relying solely on the brakes.

I'd also like to hear a coherent argument which states how (partial) downshifting to a halt can damage the engine or transmission any more than changing gear does?

RogerPodacter

Well the reason i don't down shift anymore is because my tranny went out at 100k miles and i did tons of down shifting. My tranny layshaft broke along with the tranny casing. The layshaft is where the weight of the engine connects the tranny to the wheels. My theory is that this is such a heavy car that over time the weight of slowing the car puts a very high amount of stress on the tranny and gives a much higher chance for breaking. However my car was also stolen so it could also be said that they beat the hell out of my tranny which weakened it to the point that it broke at 100k miles.

All i know is that when i engine brake with this heavy car i can literally feel the strain put on the tranny. Especially when the alternative, coasting to a stop, is just so easy and puts zero stress on the tranny, that i now just swear by coasting. Granted there are some times when i still down shift. But this is only in traffic or other situations. A red light or freeway off ramp where i know for sure i'm coming to a dead stop, no way am i engine braking.

HeavyDuty

I personally don't think it makes any difference on accel -v- decel as far as the trans is concerned. I would think that if the clutch is engaged properly, it shouldn't know or care that it's trans braking or accelerating.

I rarely gear brake just because I prefer not to, and I agree about someone not paying attention behind you and a greater risk of rear ending you the same way they might if your brake lights were not functioning.

Roger Podacter, was your car an AT or MT?