09 TSX Ride & Drive
#41
But how would one define "1st year" on a vehicle like the TSX? Should you wait until the Fall of 2009 for the 2010 model, or do you think you'd be okay if you purchased in April of next year?
I'm no expert in car assembly, but aren't changes also implemented in the middle of a model year? I'm sure if there are known issues they don't wait until the next model year to start implementing a fix.
I'm no expert in car assembly, but aren't changes also implemented in the middle of a model year? I'm sure if there are known issues they don't wait until the next model year to start implementing a fix.
#42
Originally Posted by TSXinTN
Don't disagree with what you are saying here. I am not arguing that Honda/Acura is not the most reliable car maker going. I am arguing that the first year model of any car will be statistically more problematic than subsequent model years. I learned this the hard way. I am also arguing that you and PRBallard are not willing to admit that the '04 TSX is a somewhat problematic vehicle. It is well documented yet you are not willing to admit it. I call that close-mindedness and Honda/Acura bias. Online forums are also filled with opinions, which is what I gave. If that offended you, then you might need to grow thicker skin or reevaluate what you get when you visit online forums.
#43
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Originally Posted by TSXinTN
Don't disagree with what you are saying here. I am not arguing that Honda/Acura is not the most reliable car maker going. I am arguing that the first year model of any car will be statistically more problematic than subsequent model years. I learned this the hard way. I am also arguing that you and PRBallard are not willing to admit that the '04 TSX is a somewhat problematic vehicle. It is well documented yet you are not willing to admit it. I call that close-mindedness and Honda/Acura bias. Online forums are also filled with opinions, which is what I gave. If that offended you, then you might need to grow thicker skin or reevaluate what you get when you visit online forums.
First year models have more problems. There I said it.
But not for me so far.
#44
Originally Posted by jwaters943
I'm no expert in car assembly, but aren't changes also implemented in the middle of a model year? I'm sure if there are known issues they don't wait until the next model year to start implementing a fix.
#45
Originally Posted by prballard
Which include: 92 Vigor, 95 TL 2.5, 97 CL 3.0, 04 TSX.
First year models have more problems. There I said it.
But not for me so far.
First year models have more problems. There I said it.
But not for me so far.
#46
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Colin
I think some of this depends on how important 'trouble free' is the individual. I don't believe any of the problem areas of the early TSX ever left a driver stranded by the roadside.
For many, this is mostly what matters when they think of a reliable car. You also need to factor in the intangibles like: how much you enjoy being 'first on the block' or what the car gives in return when its working.
There were no shortage of little problem areas with our 2000 and 2001 S2000s that we never had with our 2004 and 2005 S2000s. Does this mean that I should have waited till 2004 to buy one? No way! I enjoyed every minute of the S2000 ownership and wouldn't change a thing!
For many, this is mostly what matters when they think of a reliable car. You also need to factor in the intangibles like: how much you enjoy being 'first on the block' or what the car gives in return when its working.
There were no shortage of little problem areas with our 2000 and 2001 S2000s that we never had with our 2004 and 2005 S2000s. Does this mean that I should have waited till 2004 to buy one? No way! I enjoyed every minute of the S2000 ownership and wouldn't change a thing!
Not an issue of reliability although I'm sure guys with 04's who burn through a quart of oil a week would disagree. But no car is perfect.
#47
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Originally Posted by Colin
Interesting. The Vigor wasn't really a first year car, the 5 cyl Accord was out for a while in Japan first. The TL was a combination of G2 Legend chassis and two drivetrains but was 'tried and true' components, the 2.2 CLs had horrible problems with paint, that had been sorted out by the time the 3.0 came on line.
#48
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by prballard
Colin, so by that logic I should be good to go in an 09 TSX if I choose, since the vast majority of stuff including the engine has been around for a long time now??
What I think he's saying is, it will likely be very reliable. (ie. Never leave you stranded)
#50
Originally Posted by dom
What I think he's saying is, it will likely be very reliable. (ie. Never leave you stranded)
#51
Originally Posted by dom
Not an issue of reliability although I'm sure guys with 04's who burn through a quart of oil a week would disagree. But no car is perfect.
With S2000s there were a few porous blocks back in 2000, there was the spark plugs 'unscrewing themselves' in 2001, and a few model years had problems with mysterious, sudden oil loss that caused the burning of #4 cylinder. But the car is still considered very reliable in the context of sports cars.
#52
> 100K Mile Club Member
Originally Posted by jwaters943
Please tell me where I made any such reference to the 2004 TSX. I only recall commenting about the new TSX. Maybe I should have been more clear. I certainly didn't mean to imply that owners of '04 TSXs haven't had issues.
Originally Posted by jwaters943
Still, statistically speaking, Acura is better than nearly all brands on the market, so the chance of you having problems with a first year model TSX should be pretty small.
Aside from rattles, I doubt there is any reason to worry about a 1st year TSX.
Aside from rattles, I doubt there is any reason to worry about a 1st year TSX.
#53
> 100K Mile Club Member
Originally Posted by prballard
All I was saying that first model year doesn't bother me based on MY experience. Not trying to argue with statistics. I have a lot of good LUCK with MY first year Acuras. Which include: 92 Vigor, 95 TL 2.5, 97 CL 3.0, 04 TSX.
First year models have more problems. There I said it.
But not for me so far.
First year models have more problems. There I said it.
But not for me so far.
#54
> 100K Mile Club Member
Originally Posted by Colin
I think some of this depends on how important 'trouble free' is the individual. I don't believe any of the problem areas of the early TSX ever left a driver stranded by the roadside.
For many, this is mostly what matters when they think of a reliable car. You also need to factor in the intangibles like: how much you enjoy being 'first on the block' or what the car gives in return when its working.
There were no shortage of little problem areas with our 2000 and 2001 S2000s that we never had with our 2004 and 2005 S2000s. Does this mean that I should have waited till 2004 to buy one? No way! I enjoyed every minute of the S2000 ownership and wouldn't change a thing!
For many, this is mostly what matters when they think of a reliable car. You also need to factor in the intangibles like: how much you enjoy being 'first on the block' or what the car gives in return when its working.
There were no shortage of little problem areas with our 2000 and 2001 S2000s that we never had with our 2004 and 2005 S2000s. Does this mean that I should have waited till 2004 to buy one? No way! I enjoyed every minute of the S2000 ownership and wouldn't change a thing!
To me, issues that total a few thousand dollars to repair = a not so reliable car. Regardless of whether I was ever stranded on the side of the road.
#55
Originally Posted by TSXinTN
Look, I'm over this. Time to move on. If you did not mean to reference the '04 TSX, why did you keep using the term 1st year model???
#56
Originally Posted by TSXinTN
To me, issues that total a few thousand dollars to repair = a not so reliable car. Regardless of whether I was ever stranded on the side of the road.
#57
Make a hole, coming thru!
My criteria for "reliable" involve how many "WTF failures" over a 10,000 mile stretch. If the battery is dying, or a door starts buzzing, or a light bulb goes out, that's not a major pain, even for a "luxury marque." But when the entire center console lighting goes kaput ... or the a/c dies ... or foglights get cracked by something the driver never heard (a little freeway pebble) ... or the odometer turns out to be racking the miles 5% too fast ... I think the conscientious owner will say, "WTF?!" I know if I was driving a date around one night and the console went dim, I'd be miffed. Regardless if it happens statistically a lot, if I found 10-20 other owners who all had the same problem, I'd call it a "reliability" issue.
Just my unsolicited .
Just my unsolicited .
#58
Originally Posted by davidspalding
My criteria for "reliable" involve how many "WTF failures" over a 10,000 mile stretch. But when the entire center console lighting goes kaput ... or the a/c dies ... or foglights get cracked by something the driver never heard (a little freeway pebble) ... or the odometer turns out to be racking the miles 5% too fast ... I think the conscientious owner will say, "WTF?!" .
Foglights.....meh... they should have been made out of polycarbonate, but they weren't. Still an external force had to cause a fault so I'll have to set that aside.
Odometer. That one pisses me off. The federal government specifies that the odometer can have a range of accuracy between +- xx percent. Honda fell within the range although on the higher side. They broke no law and I think the whole class action suit was a load of crap.
#59
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
After all, why worry about buying a 2009 TSX and first year model issues when it is common knowledge the 'new' TSX is more of a refresh than a full model change. If you are the worrying kind, why not worry about the value of your 2009 going straight into the toilet after Acura intro's the TSX diesel in 2010. How about them apple's for building brand loyalty? Thanks, Dick!
#60
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Colin
Yeah the dash light problem was a real reliability issue, wasn't that resolved by changing the radio? I think the fault for this might be with panasonic but cannot be sure.
Foglights.....meh... they should have been made out of polycarbonate, but they weren't. Still an external force had to cause a fault so I'll have to set that aside.
Odometer. That one pisses me off. The federal government specifies that the odometer can have a range of accuracy between +- xx percent. Honda fell within the range although on the higher side. They broke no law and I think the whole class action suit was a load of crap.
Foglights.....meh... they should have been made out of polycarbonate, but they weren't. Still an external force had to cause a fault so I'll have to set that aside.
Odometer. That one pisses me off. The federal government specifies that the odometer can have a range of accuracy between +- xx percent. Honda fell within the range although on the higher side. They broke no law and I think the whole class action suit was a load of crap.
#61
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by cg2006TSX
After all, why worry about buying a 2009 TSX and first year model issues when it is common knowledge the 'new' TSX is more of a refresh than a full model change. If you are the worrying kind, why not worry about the value of your 2009 going straight into the toilet after Acura intro's the TSX diesel in 2010. How about them apple's for building brand loyalty? Thanks, Dick!
Its an all new car that shares nothing with the previous gen besides engine and tranny are both are revised (Colin please correct me if I'm wrong) So as an all new model it will still be susceptible to new production line issues and new parts issues like the 04 and any all new car is/was.
#62
> 100K Mile Club Member
Originally Posted by Colin
I guess I was not clear on what we define as "problems". I was thinking of the little (or big) things that happen in the first year or two of ownership, and not thinking of things that occur over 100,000 miles. My mistake.
#63
Originally Posted by TSXinTN
Just for the record, all of my problems have occured well under 100K miles. I am just used to a higher standard from Honda products. I had an '87 Accord that had 250,000 miles on it when I sold it for $1500. I also had a great experience with my '98 Civic that I bought brand new and put almost 140,000 miles on. Neither car had the type of issues I have had to deal with while owning my TSX.
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