Southbound

I have a 2002 TLS that needs the original Michelin MXM4s replaced (30K miles).

I have not developed any bubbles in the tire, but I have ALWAYS hated how easily they squeal when going around corners (even at easy speeds) Now they have worn to the point that they squeal when I accidently step on it too hard from a stoplight. They just don't feel safe anymore, and cause too much attention. Plust they just DON'T look aggressive enough.

I don't want to have to replace the rims to go to a larger size like the 235/45/17. However, It is dissappointing that the stock rims are only 6.5", although I'm happy with their look. I'm not trying to compete with a bimmer in the twisties... I'm just trying to make an improvement from the stock tires WITHOUT mods.

I have been looking at the TOYO PROXES T1-S Vs. the Yokohama AVS-ES100.

They BOTH have great specs for around $135 each.

UTQG 280, AA, A

The stock size 215/50/R17 is service rated as 91W (168 mph) on the Yokohamas.

The stock size 215/50/R17 is service rated as 91Y (186mph) on the Toyos.

Both of these ratings exceed the stock Michelins that were 300, A, A 93V (149mph)

I love the agressive tread style on the Toyos, but had some Toyos on a Camaro Z28 that squealed like the Michelines everytime I got on slick pavement, etc. Granted, those were over 15 years ago...

I want a tire that isn't too noisey or rough feeling as it wears, yet I REALLY want a tire that corners better than the Michelins did. How does the "BIG V" tread pattern of these new agressive styled high performance tires wear? Do they ride rough after 10K miles, or do they remain smooth and tacky?

Anybody have any opinions between these two selections???? Any comments would be appreciated! I just don't want to go the route of buying tires that are too wide for the stock rims... so unless you know of some larger tires that are TRULY made to fit a 6.5" rim, please don't recommend them.

MANY THANKS FOR THE HELP!!!
SB

hemants

The Toyo is a far superior tire. At the same price it's a no brainer.

HeLLxRiSeS

I have Paradas right now but I would've went with toyos if they had it in my area.

mantis23

I've never tried yokos, but every set of toyos I've owned have always treated me good.

You can't lose with the toyos.

GoldTL

i have toyo proxes and like them

derrick

Don't want to play spoiler here ... but are either tire "XL" load rated? I think that differentiates the Michelins with everything else (except the Yokohama Avid H4/V4S).

I know a few people on this board with Toyo T1S and Yokohama AVS-ES100. The Toyos are being discountinued and Toyo is pushing the Proxies4. AVS-ES100 are standard on the 3rd gen TL's with the performance package.

I can't state which one is better since I haven't driven on either tire. Did a tirerack search on the Yokohomas help?
- derrick (Toyo fan)

02Type S

Hey i have an 02 and i just put yoko's on mine...Es100's 215-50-17 ..i gotta say im very happy...i cant even spin my tires...well i can but its hard...they grip like crazy and they OWN in the rain! just my .02 cents! im for the yokos all the way

Lawaia

I've been through many tires over the years and my hands down choice has to be the Proxes T1-S. Nothing compares....great wet/dry handling, better than average wear, quiet, and not to forget the trick thread pattern. I put a set on my 540i/6 and driving in the twisties is much more fun!

ItalnMuslNYC

I've got the Yokohama Avid 4VS tires. Amazing tire.. Great handling, and very quiet. $101 a piece. Rated far superior than the $hitty Michelin's. Go to tirerack.com and check out the tires, and their reviews. Toyo's are nice, but I've heard from alot of people about flat spots...

Southbound

Thanks very much for the replies!

I had been leaning towards the Toyos over the Yokos, and they seem to be the overall favorite from your responses. I'm sure either are an improvement over the STOCK Michelins.

I too, have wondered about the load rating issue. The Michelins are 93V (1433 lbs/149mph)

The Toyo T1-S are 91Y (1356 lbs/186mph) WOW!

The Yoko AVS ES100 are 91W (1356 lbs/168mph)

Does anyone know why the stock tires were load service rated at 93 (1433 lbs)? Is it a Michelin intended trap? I just don't seem to understand the need for such a high load rating?

I haven't been able to locate any replacement tires other than the original Michies with that high of load rating in the stock size of 215/50/R17. I just can't seem to think that it would be a problem to sub them out for the 91W or 91Y tires. I never fully load the car. I typically drive alone or with my wife on trips. I think I'd feel safer having another tire with a AA traction rating and a higher speed rating (not that I intend to test out the rev limiter). I want something that DOES NOT SQUEAL everytime it hits slick pavement! (like the painted lines around corners, etc.)

Does anyone know why the TOYO TS-1 would be discontinued?? That is the only thing that has me a bit concerned about them... I want something that handles the twisties ( I travel up and down the Los Angeles Crest Highway over to Palmdale quite often) BUT I also want a tire that DOES NOT PULL when going straight down the Freeway. Nothing feels better than to know that you can have your hands off the wheel and the car still travels straight down the road for 30 seconds. (Not that I do that either) I had some Dunlops once that caused me to constantly add slight pressure to the wheel to keep the car from drifting. I hate that feeling! Once I replaced them, the car drove straight. The tire dealer told me that there was a "radial pull" in the tires...

SUMMARY:

I want a tire that...

Fits the ORIGINAL rim without concern for being too wide. 215/50/R17
GRIPS like a mofo.
Does NOT squeal at the slightest turn.
Drives STRAIGHT down the road.
Smooth and quiet on the open highway to Vegas
Wear evenly (do not become rough riding after 10K miles)
Has a great DOMINATING tread appearance. (The Toyo T1-S sure looks wicked, but is there a drawback to that tread design? Why else are they being discontinued?)

Thanks again for the continued input! The help is GREAT on this board!
SB

brahtw8

I ran a set of ES 100s for 27k on my 325i (225/50/16), and have a set on my 04 TL/6MT (235/40/18) that have about 8k summer-only miles.

I have run Toyo T1-S for the last 15k on my NSX, including 4 track days.

I continue to recommend both tires, as I think they are both the best value in a high performance summer tire you can buy.

If you want more performance, but less wear, buy the Toyos. If you want more wear but less performance, buy the Yokos. For the TL, I think the Yokos are the better choice.

derrick-where did you hear the T1-S are being discontinued? That would just add to my wheel and tire woes . . .

derrick

To answer a couple of questions:

1) Southbound -- only tire company I know who makes a 215/50/17 93XL load tire besides Michelin is Yokohama (H4/V4S) -- it's a 93XL with a 500 treadwear rating!

2) brahtw8 -- Toyo-T1S being discountinued is what I heard on another tread on this site regarding this tire and was mentioned to me via one of the tire shop employees near my house and at a Discount Tire shop over in Detroit. I figure 3 independent sources with the same information to be consistent. Plus it makes sense for a company to push a new model in favor of a tire that is a couple years old.

So before this goes any more off-topic, Southbound -- check out the Yokohama V4S.



Hope that answers all the questions!

Lawaia

FWIW - A family friend works for a company that holds exclusive distribution rights for Toyo Tires here in Hawaii. According to him there has not been any official notice from Toyo Japan that the T1-S will be discontinued. There is also no mention of any new products being released within the near future. I personally would be shocked if the did discountine these as they are by far the best tires I've rolled on. I guess time will tell.

brahtw8

Glad to hear it, although anything is still possible. I would also be surprised if the T1-S was discontinued, as they seem to be selling well and have a good reputation.

Southbound

Thanks again, guys!

It sounds like both Toyo and Yoko make some great replacement tires for the STOCK 02 TLS rims.

I live in So Cal, and can really use summer tires all year round, so I'll probably end up with either the Toyo T1-S or the Yoko ES-100. At this point I would love to see how much better the car handles by simple upgrading to ultra high performance tires. I know that there are a lot of suspension/wheel mods that I could do, but I don't really feel like going to those extremes now. Perhaps I'm showing my age... but THANKS for not flaming me for wanting to simply stay with the stock size tires, and for sticking to good focused answers to my questions.

Does anybody feel that riding on 91 load rated tires (1356lbs) vs. the stock 93 load rated tires (1433lbs) would be any real safety issue?? Like I said, I never load the car up to the max and tend to drive alone or with only one passenger on long trips. NO KIDS.... I really am a bit perplexed as to why the car has 93 load rated tires to begin with? The Yoko V4S would be an EXACT replacement... but they just don't look as mean as the ES100 or T1-S tires....

Thanks again!
SB