2gTltypeS

Are there any handling gains from a stiffer front strut. Progress rsb worked wonders but looking for more without coilovers (pricey)

yeedatoy

The stock strut bar is a great bar, as it attaches to 4 points. I'd get a front sway or a front lower brace instead...you can use a $20 rear lower tie bar from an accord as well.

02type-s

Noting noticeable. I added a Cusco strut bar, just for looks really.

03tLsNBP

iTrader: (9)

what is this you speak of?

gold2003tl (90)

+1 on getting front sway bar, that's my next mod. currently have progress rear sway bar and its great, now i just need to take care of the front.

fsttyms1

The only upper bars worth getting are the ones that use the stock bar in conjunction with the aftermarket. As yeedatoy stated, the stock bar is a great bar and mounts in 4 points as opposed to most that just connect strut tower to strut tower. You are better off getting a front AND rear sway bar kit. You will see the largest improvement from that. The lower bars help BUT the front one does reduce ground clearance so that is just something to think about

fsttyms1

get that front to stay level. you will like it

2gTltypeS

Concerned i will end up with ton of understeer with front sway and have the car back to the ridiculous amount presnt when stock, true or?

Edward'TLS

Yes or no, depending on the stiffness of the new front sway vs. the rear sway bars.

Stiffer front sway will increase understeer; whereas stiffer rear sway will increase oversteer.

So it is better to buy sway bars as a set, because the last thing you want is to mix and match sway bars, and end up with the car to exhibit even more understeer than the original OEM setting.

fsttyms1

NO. A matched set like Eibach you will NOT have tons of understeer. Installing a rear only is imo stupid, especially on the the stock suspension setup. Its only giving you a false impression that its handling better when you have done nothing to get rid of the front end still rolling over and changing the suspension geometry for the worse. After adding my front (i put the rear on first and went out during a lapping day) i was able to better my lap times by near 3 seconds over the stock front and eibach rear. My car is VERY neutral and i can get oversteer very easy with just adjusting tire psi a few (not that it was hard with the stock setup when driven fast correctly

yeedatoy

There is a rear lower tie bar you can find online for $20-$30 shipped made for the 98-02 Accords. I read that they fit the TL in this thread https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-1999-2003-98/rear-tie-bar-accord-570868/

I ran one on an older vehicle, they're no miracle worker but for $20 its more then worth it.

yeedatoy

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA...item4cfa52472c

03tLsNBP

iTrader: (9)

thanks for the link...but where the heck does that mount to?


im also lowered over 3.5 inches in the back. will it interfere with speedbumps and such?

jjashaa

iTrader: (23)

utterly useless.. lol

yeedatoy

look under your car from the rear and you'll get the idea.

HAZEY*NYC

any specific kit that you recommend ?

yeedatoy

Here is a description from Wikipedia:
A lower tie bar is an alloy/steel bar that ties the lower suspension pick-up points of a vehicle (with an independent suspension) together. It increases chassis rigidity by bracing the left and right lower-control-arm sheet metal mounting points. The lower tie bar is designed to reduce the non-pivoting movement of the control arms and to stiffen the subframe to lessen the distortion of the lower suspension, especially during hard cornering. As a result, it improves the handling and steering response of the vehicle much like a strut bar. A lower tie bar provides additional benefits in front-wheel drive vehicles by reducing wheel hop and torque steer. The bar lowers ground clearance by approximately 30 millimeters on most aftermarket installations.

lower tie bar (in stainless) attached to a rear subframe


The lower tie bar is mostly an aftermarket car component. Some of the few exceptions to this rule are the Honda Integra and Civic Type-R, as well as the Daihatsu Charade GTti. Since the lower tie bar is one of the cheapest upgrade that tuners can install on their cars, it is probably one of the first performance accessories that is acquired. The lower tie bar is a bolt-on device and no stock parts will have to be replaced or removed when it is being installed on the vehicle (unless the vehicle already has one on it). These characteristics make the lower tie bar a popular performance upgrade among car tuning enthusiasts.

jjashaa

iTrader: (23)

dont really need one... looks solid to me


now if it were something like this where there is nothing... now thats when it comes usefull

jjashaa

iTrader: (23)

and solid 1 piece bars = better than ones they sell on ebay

jjashaa

iTrader: (23)

doesn't look like it'll doo much. unless constant auto-x/track and putting lots of stress on that. but even then.. solid 1 piece bar would do more good.

yeedatoy

Cusco may make one, I agree that pivot points aren't that great but if you can get em tight I think it would be fine. I had one on my accord but It was just one of many suspension upgrades and it was the last I put on, a shit load of people seem to vouch for these things though. Seems like a easy part to fab if you've got the skills. A stiff rear sway can break your subframe as well, so any extra brace won't hurt.

fsttyms1

On many cars the lower control arm hangs low with nothing in the middle (see pic below). On the TL its solid from one side to the other and there isnt much need for it. The other thing that concerns me on this on the TL is those lower bolts it attaches to are cam adjustment style bolts. By loosening them to bolt this to it you are messing with the alignment.




VS TL

yeedatoy

Yeah, who knows if it will make a difference. That sheet metal is a bit thin but on the other hand I believe it is steel...could be minimal or none, but for 20 bucks I'd do it after all other suspension mods were accounted for. As far as alignment, those are just the control arm mounting points, I'm not sure how it affects alignment. the wheel will move slightly outward when that bolt comes out(at least mine did), put you can pull it inward with good hand force to get the bolt to thread back in. How does the alignment become affected? I'll probably do one for the hell of it after sways, but I imagine a front lower brace would be more effective on the TL.

fsttyms1

Its not just bolt or mounting point, They are Cam bolts. Look at them. The bolt has a washer offset welded to it and the washer on the other side has the hole offset. It adjusts toe on the rear. If the bolt turns during loosening or tightening it will mess with the alignment.




52387-SDA-A00 BOLT, RR. CONTROL ARM ADJUSTING

#18

yeedatoy

Gottcha, so whats the best way to install the bar while retaining proper alignment?

fsttyms1

My guess is you install it and then have an alignment. Toe will wear out your tires faster than camber.

yeedatoy

I've never really believed camber will wear tires prematurely. Sure they will wear the inner edge, but do you think camber wears the tire quicker? I think toe angle is the true culprit. Are you sure there is no way to retain alignment when adding the bar, or is it because the bolt can't be threaded down to the previous setting due to the extra 1/4 inch of metal added by the tie bar bracket?

fsttyms1

Toe wears it much faster than camber. With toe the tire is constantly dragging.

As for a way to retain it. No, there isnt. Its a oval shaped hole the bolt goes thru, hence the offset washers (cam bolts) If you take the nut off you loosen it to where it changes. You could mark it and be close but i would personally have an alignment done right after installing it.