whatwasthat

sowhat's the update for all season tires?

i'm in the market now, i hate the falken 512s. they weren't as grippy in the rain & snow. and the most dissappointing thing is that its been around a year, and now i have to get a new set, they're already bald. drove around 22k miiles on them. and i'm low on cash.

so i'm looking for a higher tread rating also..

derrick

Kumho ASX ... pretty good tire. My parent's Volvo had them on since November ... only 2 somewhat big snowfalls in my area this past winter. Handled well ... barely felt the ABS or traction control kick in (and on the Volvo, those systems KICK IN if they go off). Tire treads look close to new. I would recommend them if your area doesn't experience too much snow.

whatwasthat -- Mass-holer? Get yourself some 16" steel rims and throw on some dedicated snows. A 'Noreaster bury you guys in the snow ... you need good tires for those types of conditions.

If you want to go all-seasons ... check out Nokian but if you're on a budget ... try the Kumho's. Pure Adrenaline put them on his TL (with 18" rims!) and he was fine here in the Midwest.

[Ch]amsalot

I actually saw an ad in the latest car magazines for a new Falken tire which I imagine will replace the Ziex 512s. I can't find any info on the on the WWW, but it looked good for a high-performance all-season tire.

If money weren't an issue and I was stuck with the ill-advised decision to get all-season (never again for me), then this would be at the top of my list:

Yokohama ADVAN S.4.

Now, if I were friggin' Bill Gates, then the following tire would be a no-brainer. Probably the best tire ever made in the world (but I'd still rather have dedicated snow tires for travelling in blizzards):

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S

If you're willing to go with less peformance, then:

Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S

I'm sure all of the above will give better performance than the Ziex 512s, and they should all be better in the snow.

300HpTL

Allseason are horrible no matter which ones you run. I drove on Nokian Hakka II's
this winter they were great (V rated, directional...) not cheap but worth it.

whatwasthat

hm... what about noise? the falkens are loud, how are the others??

300HpTL

Yeah, I think you will find all winter tires sacrifice ride comfort (noise, feel) and dry handling. In return for safety of course.

antlive

anyone try the Goodyear Assurance TripleTred or the Michelin X Radial DT ? I'm in the market and looking at these two.

derrick

TripleTreds are supposed to be awesome. Consumer Reports rated them #1. My uncle has them on his '02 Accord V6 and was fine with them through a Canadian winter (Toronto). Depending on where you live and how aggressively you drive, those would be a good pick.

Don't know anything about those Michelin Radial X -- I think they sell those at Costco, right? Would check the load capacity of those ones ... compare to the OEM ones to be sure.

optomos

What about the Hankook Ventus h105's?

[Ch]amsalot

I would get the Yokohama Advan S.4.'s over the Ventus H105's if you want all-season performance:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....odel=ADVAN+S.4.

Preliminary review/comparison:

http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...sage_id=538048

-[Ch]amsalot

Cozmo

I just picked up the Toyo Proxes 4 a few days ago... it'll be interesting to see how they do in the winter. Luckily it doesn't snow or freeze much here.
Otherwise I'd be in my car doin this:
Maybe I'd be a bit less happy if I was out of control hehe.

Chris V

Thinking of getting the Michelin x-Ice at Costco for my 03 TL.
Can I go 215-60-16 instead of 205???

Any thoughts on the cheaper....
Walmart Magnagrip....
Can Tire Nordic Ice....
or any other "economy" brands....

[Ch]amsalot

I wouldn't go with that size. If anything, 215/55 R 16 is a better match. However, for snow tires, you generally want narrow. 205/60 R 16 is best.

I don't know why DiscountTireDirect doesn't carry the X-Ice in that size. TireRack, however, has it:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ireModel=X-Ice

I'd go to CostCo and see if they could special order the X-Ice in the 205/60 R 16 size as well as price match TireRack.

-[Ch]amsalot

Edward'TLS

Unless you drive in the snow all winter long, having snow tires on is bad enough for dry performance during the dry winter days, going narrower only makes it even worse.

derrick

Although that might be true ... the climate in NY in the winter can be outrageous. 'Noresters can totally bury the state in snow. Unlike much of BC, the east coast gets a lot of snow.

My advice ... 205/60/16 ... that's OEM size. And there's a reason for it. Go wider if you want summer performance, not winter performance. Better safe than sorry.

fsttyms1

Unless you go with a tire like the Dunlop winter sport M3. It handles better than the oem tire and is a winter only tire. Never had a issue with them . I run a 215/55/16 and love it.

[Ch]amsalot

Any quality dedicated snow tire in a 215/55 R 16 size will be vastly superior to an all-season 205/60 R 16. All things being equal (e.g., using the same exact tire), a 205/60 R 16 is preferrable for the white stuff than the 215/55 R 16, but again, if it's a quality snow tire, you'll be doing good.

I've used the X-Ice in a 205/60 R 16 for the past two winters, including what would have been a trecherous drive from Vermont to Long Island, NY (returning from a ski weekend) during the Feb, 2006 Nor'easter in which I drove by a fatality (poor guy was thrown from vehicle, bloody tarp was over him in the middle of the highway... something I won't forget for a long time). I've been very satisfied with the handling of the X-Ice on the dry. If anything, it's weakest in the wet, but still perfectly acceptable. The snow traction is great. This third season will be the last season I can get out of them.

For the dry, I had my first season of the BF Goodrich G-Force Sport (215/55 R 16). The performance envelope for these tires far exceeds anything I'd do with my car, wet or dry. They've been phenomenally responsive in the dry and admirable in the wet, and the price cannot be beat.

If you want a "performance" snow tire, Dunlop has their new Winter Sport 3D. Since it's much newer than the old M3, I'd go with this one if you wanted to stick with Dunlop:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....inter+Sport+3D

And Michelin has their very-well rated Pilot Apline PA2:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ilot+Alpin+PA2

So, for maximum winter traction, go with the X-Ice, and go with the Dunlop or Alpin PA2 if you want more performance at the price of slightly less aggressive deep snow traction.

-[Ch]amsalot

Chris V

Can I go 205-55-16 snow tires? I can get a real deal on a set of Pirelli's off a Lexus. Is it the same 5 bolt pattern?

[Ch]amsalot

205/55 R 16 would not be recommended. It's a smaller tire than OEM. It may possibly have a lower load rating, it would definitely have the wrong shaped contact patch, etc. It's just not a good idea.

As for the wheels on the Lexus fitting your wheel, you've given us no info other than it has five bolts (and we can surmise that they are 16" wheels). So honestly, we have no idea if they'll fit. Look for the bolt pattern on the wheel to be 5-114.3 55B (if you have a '99 TL, not sure about the other years).

I'm not sure what kind of deal they're offering on the Lexis wheels & tires, but you can get a steel-wheel & Blizzak REVO 1 tire package from TireRack for $540+S&H less a $50 MIR.

You can also get a steel-wheel & Hankook winter tire for $488 (free shipping) from Discounttiredirect.com

Both packages have free mounting and high-speed balance. All you'd have to do is find someone to pop them on (unless you can do that yourself).

Good luck,
[Ch]amsalot

Cozmo

I got the Toyo Proxes 4 which I had originally planned to switch back to the Michelins during the winter but I think these will be ok since it rarely snows in seattle. I haven't had much chance to test them in the rain yet but I think it will be ok. They are a lot better than the pilots (and cheaper), and I don't plan to ever go back. The only downside is that being an inch wider they had a big impact on my gas mileage.

[Ch]amsalot

A wider tire would need more air. 34-35psi (instead of 32) should give you better gas mileage, better wear, and a more suitable contact patch. I'd personally call up the tirerack with your exact size and ask them what psi they would recommend.

fsttyms1

I would check the airpressure and raise it some. Im running Sticky 225/55 Eagle F1 GS-D3's and my mileage hasnt dropped at all

[Ch]amsalot

The way you drive I'm surprised you even have gas mileage :P

derrick

I have Proxies4 on my 18" rims. Some idiot mechanic tried to use the tire pressure on the door (32psi) ... I told them to use 40 psi. Why? I used the 80% rule. In most situations, you should inflate your car to at least 80% of the maximum pressure stamped on the tire sidewall. It's not an absolute, but a guide. In my case, the 235/40/18 Proxies4 have a maximum pressure of 51psi. 80% of 51psi = 40 psi (approx).

So ... my advice to you: look at the tires you are buying ... look at the sidewall and calculate 80% of the maximum pressure. You can play around with that pressure until you find the best comfort (ie less pressure) / fuel economy (ie more pressure) that you're looking for.

Good luck!

[Ch]amsalot

Here's the best explanation about the contact patch vs. psi and tire-size that I've found. All things being equal, lower the psi and you wind up increasing the contact patch size and vice-versa. This is why proper inflation is important. But the explanation below also shows why for bad weather, it's much more important to be on the over-inflated side rather than the under-inflated side. The following is for a motorcycle, so that's why they're talking 900 pounds and two tires:

"It's commonly believed that a bigger tire has a bigger contact patch. This is incorrect. An ST1300 fueled up weighs about 700 pounds; the rider is about another 200. The tires are at about40 psi. So, 900 pounds divided by 40 psi is 22 square inches. If the weight is equally distributed on the two tires, each tire has a contact patch of 11 square inches. That's it, tire width and diameter never entered into the calculation. A narrow tire will have an 11 square inch contact patch that's long and narrow; a wide tire will have an 11 square inch contact patch that's short and wide. If you drop the tire pressure to 20 psi (popular for on/off road bikes) then your contact patch doubles in size. If you find yourself in snow or rain, raising the tire pressure will shrink your contact patch and help you push through to the road."

(Quoted from Mark Lawrence of http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Tires.html )

fsttyms1

My mileage has gone up too since doing the 6 speed and type-s motor swap

I keep my tires around the 40 mark as well.

Edward'TLS

40 psi. Your ride must be very rough. The tires will become slippery in the wet when overinflated.

derrick

40psi is overinflated when the max pressure is 51psi? I don't feel as if they are particularly 'slippery' in the wet. I would hate to feel how mushy they would be if I had them at 35psi in the wet / winter. (Even if they're 95 load rated tires)

I also have my Nokian tires 205/50/17 with 93XL load rating ... 51psi max pressure. I have those set to 40psi. Way more comfortable ride than my Proxies4 ...

fsttyms1

My ride is no harsher than it is when set to 32. The big difference is that the tires are no where near as mushy and floaty feel while driving. There is No slippery whatsoever in the wet either.

[Ch]amsalot

I too have to agree, although I backed into the number. I get the best combo of gas-mileage, handling and ride quality is at 35psi, and my tire happens to be a 215/55R16. Guess what the maximum psi is for this tire? 44psi. 44psi x 0.8 = 35.

Amazing how that little guideline works.

Delirium

Gotta agree too,i'm running my Toyo Garrit HT at 39-40 And the ride is perfect,As for performance those tires are great and trust me were i live the winter is a PITA,worst road condition you can think.AKA White Hell

Edward'TLS

It doesn't matter how high or how low the max pressure number is stamped on your tires. The weight of your car doesn't change, even if you change to tires that have different max pressure numbers. The more overinflated your tires are, the less the contact patch (the actual surface area of tire rubber that's touching the aspault). Overinflated tires do have stiffer side walls, but with reduced adhesion to the roads due to smaller contact patch.

[Ch]amsalot

>>but with reduced adhesion to the roads due to smaller contact patch.<<

Adhesion to the road is not only a function of contact patch size, but also of shape, tire compound & design, and weather conditions, and exactly what you're trying to do with the tire at any given time (e.g., accellerating vs. cornering). You cannot make the generalization that by lowering the psi, you're increasing adhesion.

-[Ch]ams

Edward'TLS

Now we're talking about inflation pressure on the SAME tire. So it will have the same shape, same compound & design. You just go to the gas station to inflate and deflate the tire, so it will be under the same weather and road conditions. You go and accelerate on the same road the same way. You take the same corners. Then the only variation is the size of the contact patch under different inflation pressure. Since the weight of a car is fixed, overinflating its tires will make the tires more round, thus reducing the overall effective contact patch with the road.

An easy experiment is to watch the flat bottom area of a tire which touches the road. As you gradually increase the tire pressure, the two ends of the flat bottom area begin to raise up. When that happens, the actual contact patch with the road become smaller and smaller as you continue to overinflate the tires. Less contact patch area = reduced roadholding adhesion.

fsttyms1

Not true. The more the tire can stay level to the ground the better it will grip. If they are underinflated they tire will roll over there by reducing the actual effective contact patch. Yes there are limits as well before you get a negitive effect when inflating a tire. I for 1 can prove that 40 psi in my tires will out perform 32. I have done countless laps on road courses and autoxing to know that my car for a fact (with the tires im running) get better traction and can get better lap times with the PSI at 38-40

fsttyms1

Every tire and car are different, and so are drivers. There is no 1 perfect psi. Its all dependant on car,tire and driver. They have to set it up for the way they like and the way it performs

Edward'TLS

The factory spec of 32 psi is for general comfortable ride for most people. The sidewall will be too soft for performance drive, and the tires will deform under extreme cornering. Putting in more pressure makes the sidewall more rigid and thus better turn-in control. I myself is running at 37 front and 34 rear with 225/45/18 tires on the streets. So your 38-40 isn't too far away for track use. But there will be a point when putting even more pressure won't help the lap times at all, this is when the reduced contact patch factor overcomes the rigid sidewall benefit.

Did you do track racings in the dry or the wet ? You will get better lap times if you slightly reduce the tire pressure when racing in the wet with more contact patch.

[Ch]amsalot

While the two of you were discussing racing, something which I'll never get to experience, I came up with a witty sig file!

-[Ch]ams

____________
Drive defensively. Accelerate, decelerate and lane change as necessary to keep others from passing you.

fsttyms1

Correct. Like i said , Yes there are limits as well before you get a negitive effect when inflating a tire. That is what i found to work best for me and my setup.

as for rain, no most places dont let events go on in the rain. and actually more contact patch in the rain also helps give more hydroplaning which you dont want. There is no replacement for good tire/tread design. I love my Goodyear Eagle F1's in the rain. They stick in the rain as good as they do in the dry. they are unbelievable.

EdRed04TL

Has anyone seen the blurb in the November 13, 2006 issue of AutoWeek (page 37) that is about a new product from Norway called "Autosock"?

I went to their website and it looks like a terrific concept for occasional icy and snowy conditions. They seem to be more cost effective than the dedicated winter tire and four rim swap.

I am very interested in finding a way to purchase them since they are not yet available in the USA.

http://www.autosock.com