My mother's best friend is dying, and her husband suddenly passed away a couple of months ago. In an effort to help her out, I've taken possession of her husband's '03 TL32s to sell for her, but it needs some work first. The husband bought the car new in '03 (I have the window sticker) and it's been garage kept, but is a little beat up. 158k miles. The check engine light is on, and the idle is high. If you click the VSA button, the triangle with exclamation point light on the right side of the cluster comes on, then off if you click the VSA button again. The VSA light does NOT come on at this point. Shortly after firing the car up, the VSA light AND the triangle lights come on, the car won't go past 3k RPM (as I believe it's designed to under VSA conditions) and the RPMs fluctuate badly. Car will go from 800-2k rpm and back again over and over again, making it hard to drive and brutal on the transmission. On the highway the car drives just fine and holds RPM. Once the VSA and triangle lights go on, the VSA button does nothing, and the lights won't go off unless you restart the motor.

I have no idea how long the car has been running like this.

Any thoughts, guys? I'm not at all familiar with Hondas, but I'm trying to maximize the cash return for my mother's friend and that necessitates me repairing the car myself. Thanks for any help.

 

this is going to be confusing.

when the VSA light is ON- VSA is off.
when you click the button, you're essentially turning VSA OFF.
then when you click it again, you're turning VSA back ON. VSA is always on, unless you turn it off.

the high idle might be caused by a dirty EGR valve.
have the codes read from an auto parts store.
Once you have the codes, it'll be more helpful in determining what else is wrong

 

Pushing the VSA button (when the light comes on on the dash) turns the system OFF.

The VSA light often comes on when the CEL light does. Its just the way honda programmed it. The surging idle is caused by the IACV (Idle Air Control Valve) After sitting for a while they tend to stick. Often taking the car out and driving it a while will free it up. If not you can remove it from the bottom of the throttle body, Clean it with carb cleaner and give it a little WD40 or similar and see if that helped. Pull the Clock "Backup" fuse on the passenger side fuse panel to reset the ECU and see if the CEL comes back. If the idle is fixed and the light comes back on you will have to get the codes read for us to be able to help you further. If you dont live in Cali most auto parts stores will read them for free.

 

Ok, I'll give those a whirl today. What's the CEL light?

The VSA malfunctioning is peculiar...I'm hoping it's just a symptom of something else and not a failure within itself.

 

Ok, just spent a couple hours cleaning this thing up and it's actually looking pretty nice. I pulled the fuse and reset the computer, and so far it has not thrown any codes, but the idle is still jacked up. It definitely sounds like a funky IACV, as suggested. I'll put some Seafoam and good gas in it and run it around, and if that doesn't work yank the sensor. Is it under the throttle body or behind it?

I also discovered this thing leaks oil pretty good.

 

I put $50 of premium in it and a bottle of Seafoam, and it's already running better. I brought the car by Autozone and they ran the codes; it came up with the IACV as suspected. The check engine light is still on, but the VSA didn't freak out and it didn't fluctuate the idle.

I will say this: this little car is QUICK.

 

Hey Wakko47, as you work on this car....you may end up deciding you'd like it for yourself.

More than likely the car had sat quite a bit and needs some refreshening. Check the coolant level, as that can cause idling runability problems. Have the cooling system pressure checked to start out with. Your local auto parts store will be your best friend with reading "CEL" codes. But, we need them to help you out along the way.

Old bad gas can cause issues. Try eliminating the simple stuff first, and then work through the rest once you become more familiar with the car.
Caution: you may end up really becoming attached to the TL !

 

He passed away in the end of July, so fortunately it didn't sit too long. It was about out of gas when I got it, and I'm sure it had 87 in it, so I filled it up with 93 and some Seafoam, like previously mentioned.

While I like the car, I doubt I'll get attached to it. I've got two bikes, three cars (in various states of disrepair), my wife's Jeep, and my daily driver is an '09 Tahoe company car. I don't have room or money for another car!

 

You can clean the IACV first and then if that done not work purchase a new one from Autozone or O'Reilly's. The Idle Air Control Valve sits on the bottom of the throttle body. When you do remove it make sure the engine is cold, coolant runs through the IACV. YOu have to remove the TB to access the IACV.

BE very careful with bad fuel with this car. The injectors are very picky (I learned the hard way, had to replace all 6) because of bad fuel and a sub par fuel injector cleaner.

 

So I should get a TB gasket too? If I have to yank it, I'm just going to replace it and be done with it.

Good tip on the injectors. Unfortunately I suspect the departed original owner was running 87 octane since they'd fallen on hard times financially. The front tires are maypops.

 

With the older owners falling on hard times, the normal "PM" stuff probably was neglected.

Getting the fuel system clean is a good place to start. That will also help the fuel injectors. These cars have problems with the EGR passageways within the manifold getting carboned up. Check the "DIY" sticky for more details on this and other common issues.

It wouldn't hurt to have the electrical system load tested, and the cooling system pressure checked. If the CEL is still on, get the codes read again. A basic tune-up including a fresh set of NGK plugs, an air filter and a pcv valve may also help.

 

Great tips, 32TLc. Fortunately I have all maintenance records of the car, so I know the timing belt was changed already, it has a new transmission from Acura, and it has lots of other maintenance stuff that's relatively current. I'll check out those DIY threads for fuel injector cleaning and perhaps a fuel filter as well.

 

that trans is rebuilt not `new`,,probably a warranty unit from clutches, thats a good selling point!!
change the fluid in it to the new honda dw1 = smooths shifts

seafoam in fuel- 2 ounces seafoam per gal of fuel
or 1 can to just under half a tank is cleaning doseage
do it twice on this car to remove varnish from fuel lines and injectors.

does not get the idle control

dont forget the Throttle body air plate needs cleaning!

 

where is the oil leak? clogged PCV (10$) can force oil out the engine rear main seal--
inspect for oil leak there by removing cover with 2 bolts- under trans

other possibles are valve cover gaskets, valve cover bolts loose
but oil leaks are serious- find it fast!

 

Why do you say not to get an IAC?

 

He was saying that seafoaming will not clean the IACV, that's all. That has to be cleaned by hand by removing the intake and doing it.

 

Oh, I understand. I'm just going to replace it and be done with it. The $89 isn't worth the time to R/R it twice. You're right about the tranny, it was rebuilt with a $600 warranty rebuild kit back at 109k miles. I have the receipt, though I suspect there's no warranty on it at this point. Shifts great, I'll leave the fluid swap to a motivated new owner.

I appreciate the help so far guys, I know it's frustrating when forum noobs come on just to ask a bum rush of questions. When I get the title and the car situated, I'll post up some more information in case any of you are interested in it.

 

Ok! The new hood supports came in today, so with the hood able to stay up on its own I set out to work on the IACV. I've gotten the entire throttle body assembly almost out, except for a sensor with a female plug on it that's fastened to a metal bracket under the TB. I'm going to need to get that off so I can get better access to the IACV. One of the screws came out no problem, but the other is stuck and is starting to strip. I'd like better access to put more pressure or use vice grips to get it off. The throttle body is filthy, so I'm sure it's never been cleaned. The short vacuum hose at the front top of the TB was rock hard so I'll need to replace that, along with the coolant hoses going to the IACV. Are those dealer only items?

 

Here are the Honda part numbers for the two hoses coming off the TB. Try a Honda dealership over an Acura one because they are cheaper on parts. Water Hose A (19521-P8A-A00) Water Hose B (19522-P8E-A00)

Honda part numbers can be found at www.hondapartsunlimited.com

 

VERY helpful...the diagrams on that site show me what I need. I am going to replace all the hoses on the TB assembly, now I can see exactly what they are. If I can figure out how to get that two wire plug off and ultimately the IACV screw that's stuck, I'll be happy.

Something dawned on me today: I disconnected the battery yesterday and planned on leaving it disconnected until I was done with the car repair. Will that affect the security mode of the radio?

 

Lol if you don't have a radio code you're in for a possible issue. Sometimes you can get the code based on vin number. I've heard of dealerships charging upwards of 100 bucks just for the code.

 

I'll check the paperwork for the code card...it's likely there. Original owner, didn't throw anything out. Even the window sticker is there. I did see the FAQ thread that showed how to get it from the website, I'll just have to find out the phone number they used to register it. Live and learn.

 

Sometimes you can get lucky and find the radio code on the outside of the glove box. Open it up and look where any part of the glove box is covered up, when it is closed. Sometimes there will be a sticker there with the code on it. Or I have seen them on a sticker on the trunk sill, open the truck and look all around the sill. Good luck.

 

some 03s have a white sticker with radio codes inside a fuse cover--under hood possibly?
as soon as you disconnect batt the radio locks down,,the nav hangs in there for about an hour,,as I learned...

for the effort to get iacv off tb with it on the car,,why dont you remove the intake manifold to clean egr passage and ports
then seperate the TB and flip it over

The iacv itself is a small rod with a slit cut in the side
that slit gets clogged, and the chamber the rod sits in also gets gunked up so rod cant rotate smoothly
That messes up airflow and system operation

get the TB air plate and inside area with carb cleaner- toothbrush if really bad on the air plate, get both sides and the edge too
Replace PCV $10,,TB crudded--pcv clogging = bad

those all make for a smooth running, easier selling car
its maintenance not found in the book but very important to do
afterwards you can tell !

some seafoam thru the tank at 2 oz per gal fuel never hurt !
especially a car that sat more than 3 -6 months,,fuel gels,,globs up,,varnish is formed
all bad for running !

 

Well, it's alive! Took forever to order all the new vacuum and cooling hoses from the online place, and they have lousy customer service too, but at least the parts got here properly. The butterfly was stuck, so I cleaned that out, put a new $80 IACV on there and it fired right up...sitting in it as we speak. The idle is a tad rough, just a tad, but I'm hoping a tank of premium with Seafoam will help, and I'll do the PCV as recommended. I don't think I'll bother with the plugs.

Radio is locked down and there IS a white sticker on the side of the glovebox with the code, but it doesn't work. I went on Acura's site and entered in the proper vehicle information and it gave me TWO Codes, including the one on the glove box. Neither works, and I tried the first one twice, so it says Err3 now. How many tries do you get, and what happens if you run out?

Unfortunately my mother's friend has gotten much worse in the past two weeks, and she's not even been well enough to look for the title. I'd hoped to sell the car to give her extra money to help with expenses before she passes, but there may not be enough time. Her son is her only heir, and he's addicted to drugs, so I'm really not sure what's gonna happen at this point. I hope I didn't waste my time working on this thing.

Guess I'll call the Acura dealer tomorrow and see if they can help with the radio code issue. I wonder if the stereo was replaced at one point.

 

Hey Wakko47, chances are that you ran out of attempts of code entry.
Try either pulling the negative cable from the battery for a few minutes or......remove the radio back-up fuse from the passenger side fuse box.

I'd use the 5 digit code given on the glove box first, then try the second one if that does not work.
I would'nt think that the unit would require being replaced considering the previous owner involved.

 

I did as you suggested and pulled the fuse, replaced and reentered both codes, no joy. I did it multiple times just to make sure and still get the error code. The battery was replaced in the car about a year and a half ago, so if Sears can figure it out, I am hoping to.

 

I'd doubt that Sears will be able to help much. To reset the error code, you have to leave the battery cable disconnected a few minutes if the fuse didn't clear the error code. If calling the dealership, they will need the car's VIN and the radio's serial #.

To retrieve the serial, you either have to remove the unit to find the # or.......try turning key on, then press reset 1 & 6 simultaneously, turn radio on, and the 10 digit serial # for the radio should appear on the display. It should show a "U" followed by 4 #'s, followed by a "L" and four more #'s. So it should be like U1234L4567. or maybe only the 8 #'s ????? This should be the radio unit's serial # required by the dealer to give you the 5 digit "CODE".

 

What I meant about Sears is that if those $11/hour guys can figure out how to get the radio working than I should be able to as well. I got the serial of the radio and used it on the website to get the two codes. I spoke to a guy I know that used to work on Acuras and he suggested I disconnect the battery again and put the two terminals together to clear out any capacitors in the radio and try the codes again.

The Acura dealership is only a couple miles away, so if need be I can head over there and try to pick someone's brain. We shall see!

 

Hey Wakko47, I forgot to mention that sometimes it's necessary to remove the antenna's lead connector when attempting to enter the code. I think that it's located in the trunk ?

 

Hmmm, ok. I'll try that next!

 

Yes, remove the antenna from the radio and enter the code.

Also most places that replace batteries will plug a 12v source into the OBD2 connector and it will retain power to the ECU and Radio etc so that nothing needs to be reset when replacing the battery.

 

I called Acura and they confirmed the code no problem and also suggested the antenna disconnect. Is there an easy way to do that, or am I going to have to yank the radio? I'm in South Florida, so there are no underground parking garages, unfortunately.

 

unh! Never needed to disconnect antenna on mine after battery disconnect. Just punch in the code and redo the pre-sets and have been good to go. It's nice to know though, just in case it ever does need it.

 

Yeah, I would'nt want to get up in under the dash to pull the radio's antenna.

I've never had to do this, but take a close look at the rear window.....that's where the antenna is. There should be a common spot that the window wiring has a connector of some sort......look at the middle, top or bottom inside the rear window for it.

Also investigate within the trunk for an antenna lead connector. It's gotta be somewhere !

 

Ok I had this Same issue a week ago or so. I entered the code wrong to many times and reset it a couple times cause it Locks it self and the radio signal does have something to do with it. I can confirm that the underground parking lot method works you get 10 Trys after that you got to restart the battery again let it reset for about at least 10 seconds if its maxed out. then enter the first code you got.

 

If you go anywhere in the city or where they got sky scrapers or etc they should have underground or indoor parking good luck

 

Try a building with a metal roof, or an all metal building like a pole barn. You might see if a local garage will do it for you if you can't access a building.

 

Well, the antenna disconnect fixed it, with the first code that's on the side of the glovebox. Been driving the car a little bit to get the Seafoam through it...car rides really nice, especially for 158k miles. The front tires are REALLY bad but I'm not willing to risk putting 250 into fixing it since I still don't have the title and have no promise of getting my money back.

When all is said and done, someone's gonna get a nice unmolested TL32s to fix up and customize. I can't find anything mechanically or electronically wrong with it anymore.

 

Its not hard. You dont have to remove the radio to do so.