Yeah. As I said in the second paragraph of that post, " ... and what they determined, at the time, to be the causes of the 3rd clutch pack failures." I was just posting the report for information purposes and to show how there was apparently a difference in the early failure rates of the U.S.-made TLs vs. the MIJ ones. My take so far is that the problem isn't/wasn't solely related to insufficient cooling -- it appears to have been a multi-faceted prob with several variables related to the mfg process and also the case design (the cooling flow). Otherwise, every 2G 3.2 TL sold would have failed and failed at around roughly the same mileage mark (excluding driver behavior variables). Since there were TLs that failed at 20K or less and there are TLs with >100K miles on them that have never had a trans problem, the prob can't simply be a poorly designed case that provides insufficient cooling flow. Would you concur?

Of course.

I'd be really interested in seeing pictures of those. There were plenty of pictures in that report, but they're illegible in the .pdf scans in the report.

 

 

BOTTOM LINE- This should have been a full blown recall!

Honda/Acura let loyal customers wait for their faulty transmissions to fail and this risked and more than likely cost lives. They knew for YEARS that their cars were crap. I damn near got killed when my tranny went out, and I went through two of them. Twice my car broke down in busy roads and by the skin on my nuts I didn't get broadsided. This car is crap, I don't care what these Honda/Acura water carriers at this site say. This site is funded by an Acura dealership, so there are guys here that will refute any negative post and try to spin anything they can. They are mechanics and they will work it and try to manipulate you, just as they do when you're in their shop. They and their bosses have no concern for their consumers, and anyone reading this thread should take it to the bank and never buy another Honda product. They don't give a damn about your safety.

 

I have no $ interest in honda/acura and feel that other car makers have far bigger problems and less customer service. Have a read of the NTSB recalls and there are years and years of several models/makers with defect wiring-fires-exploding gas tanks- defect tires- rollovers- brake failures and more,
and you think a trans prob is the worst thing happening?
It is strange you would have 2 terrifying breakdowns- but some people have all the luck! Or if it wern't for bad luck - they wouldnt have no luck at all
Enjoy your new Kia!!

 

Well for starters the NTHSA deemed a recall wasnt necessary.
2. A dealer "sponsoring" (one of many different places, not dealers) this site has NOTHING and i mean NOTHING to do with what people write here, they are one of MANY that help with paying the bills (just like our vendors). They have 0 influence on what we right. They have NO mechanics here trying to spin things differently.

Maybe if you paid attention to the car instead of the radio/phone you would have seen the transmission acting up before it failed. I know i did and not once did it ever come close to causing an accident.

 

Man, you have to get some perspective here. I admit I am older than most on this forum at 47, but at the age I am I can tell you I have dealt with many dealers/indy shops since age 16. I absolutley avoid dealers like a plague if I can - I have an excellent indy shop that has mechanics that specialize in Japanese and European vehicles, but if I have to go to a dealer for warranty, etc. I do. When my first tranny was going out at 80K, 1 mo. after I bought the car used from a Toyota dealer, I went to Zimbrick Acura in Madison, WI. (2 hrs away) I can tell you I was absolutely blown away by how they treated me, I could'd believe it. Made me want to buy Acura for life. I cannot say enough good about how they did and have since treated me. I would definitely buy a nice new 6 sp TL-S from them if it wasn't for children #4 and #5 still at home (and #1,2 &3 still costing me some money ) I am on my third trans now, they went way above and beyond when trans 2 went out at 165K. No complaints. As I write this the car is at the indy for both upper control arms/upper ball joints and both lower ball joints. Really, only the drivers upper is bad, but at 176K the indy recommended doing all and I agreed as I am keeping the car for a while yet. Total cost including alignment will be $670. Now, I could complain about this, but at 176K that would be stupid. The car has been bullet proof and I drive agressively. Maybe I have been lucky, but I am very happy with this vehicle based on many prior vehicles and run ins with various apathetic dealers. BTW, I have no ties or vested interest in Zimbrick Acura, I'm just a very pleased customer.
Good luck with your next vehicle

 

Zimbrick treated me the exact same way. I cant say enough about that dealer and their service dept.

 

If you don't mind me asking:

When your first two tranmissions went bad, were they both the pre-Feb.05 (modified) transmissions? I'm guessing your first one was, but how about the second? Was it replaced before or after Feb. '05?

 

Bristol Shore, judging from all your posts, it seems like you're trying hard to convince yourself to buy the 2nd gen TL. I can sense that you still have lots of uncertainties. My honest suggestion is to skip the 2nd gen TL. Go for the 1st gen or better still the 3rd gen to save the headache if you still want a TL. I don't want you to regret your purchase afterward, and having to curse yourself everyday when driving the car you bought.

 

Thanks for the advice, but no, I'm not "trying to convince myself to buy the 2nd gen TL." I'm simply trying to get as much info as I can so I can make the best decision. I'm not looking for validation or recommendations of which car to buy -- I can handle that myself.

I don't like the other TLs (any of them), so I'd appreciate it if people would stop recommending them, or other cars, to me (no offense). I know what cars are out there and which ones I can afford to consider, and I've researched other cars in addition to the TL. While I don't want to regret purchasing a 2G TL, I also don't want to regret settling for a different car just because I didn't have enough info or was in a hurry to 'just get a car.' "Man, I should have gotten the TL" is not something I want to find myself saying either.

Again, no offense, and thanks for the feedback.

 

Again all the info that IS available is here. This subject gets talked about and beat more than a dead horse on this forum. I honestly dont know what more you need.

 

I understand your position. As a moderator, you see much more of this than the rest of us do. You've been dealing with it for years; me on the other hand, a couple weeks.

If I may: Maybe the reason this subject gets "beat more than a dead horse" is because of Honda coporate's decision to keep as much info secret as they can. Whether or not there are valid reasons, legal or otherwise, to keep it a secret is a subject for another discussion. AFAIK, and from what you guys have said, there is no official public notice, tech bulletin, press release, or anything else to tell us the info that really needs to be known, like:

1) What is the failure rate, to date, of the post-Feb. 05 transmissions?

2) Have there been any more occurences -- any at all -- of the infamous "5-2 downshift," or the sudden shift-into-neutral-without-warning incidents, with the post-Feb. 05 transmissions? If so, any crashes, injuries or fatalities? Any written complaints to the NHTSA?

3) Are there always 'warning' symptoms before a severe incident occurs, and when severe incidents occur, can we say without question that it's the operator's fault for not noticing or doing anything about the warnings? (Obviously, if people are too inattentive or too lazy to take the car in when probs start, it's hard to blame Honda/Acura if the trans goes out later and puts them in a precarious situation.)

The position of some on this site seems to be that info like this is none of our business and we should just 'trust' Honda when they say that all's well now. They basically claimed as much in their report to the NHTSA back in 2003 but then had to make further modifications in Feb. '05, so based on that, have they really earned our trust? Whether or not they honestly believed the probs were fixed back then or whether they knew they weren't and just covered it up, I dunno.

Having said that, it could very well be that they DID in fact finally fix the probs beginning with the post-Feb. 05 transmissions, there haven't been any more 5-2 downshift events or sudden shifts into neutral, the 3rd clutches are now getting plenty of fluid and aren't wearing out prematurely anymore, and therefore the transmissions are now pretty darn good! If that's the case, then a 2G TL would be a great car for me. Prob is, when I ask for some evidence of this, the silence here is deafening. No thread, no links, zip, zero, nada. If the info is unavailable, then what are you guys basing your claims on? I'm not asking because I have some reason to think you're lying -- I'm just asking because I'd like to see it for myself.

 

Bristol Shore, this forum and other similar ones only capture what the forum members write. The sample size is comparatively very small. There are many, many more 2nd gen TL owners out there who either don't post on internet or don't known the existence of TL forums.

I became a member here even before I bought my 2002 TL-S. Over the years, I have observed from members' posts that original trannies were dropping like flies for the TL-S's and CL-S's in the early years, especially the early batches of TL-S's that were built in the 2002 and early 2003's. Early replacements did fail, but at a much reduced rate compared to the original ones. As newer and newer revision replacements came out, I've heard less and less repeated replacement tranny failures.

The reason why I'm sure you were trying to convince yourself is that if you go through this thread, you are asking similar questions over and over again. We have already told you that nobody would have answers to your repeated questions. Try Honda if you really want to get to the bottom of it. Like fsttyms1 said already you can find all the info you want in this and the CL forums.

So even if you bought the 2nd gen TL that has the tranny revision that won't fail. But nothing is perfect. Even Japanese cars have lemons. You may be the lucky one who's bulletproof tranny may also fails. Please accept the fact that you won't find answers to your repeated questions.

 

Of course. I'm well aware of that.

You're mistaken about "trying to convince myself." What I don't want to do is pass on the car due to thinking the probs are worse than they are. Many posts here and also on CarSurvey.org make these cars sound like utter pieces of junk, while others say just the opposite. Just tryin' to sort it all out, that's all -- not trying to "convince myself" one way or the other.

Actually, I've gotten a lot more info from you guys than from Honda corporate. All I got from them was, "We don't have that information" -- and that goes for a lot of questions that you guys have been able to answer for me. They couldn't/wouldn't tell me about the enlarged passages in the post-Feb. 05 transmissions, or the new clutch materials, or even what the causes for the initial failures were. I've gotten all of that here, plus anecdotal stuff to boot.

Of course. I don't know where you ever got the idea I was seeking an iron-clad guarantee of transmission perfection. Please cite something I've said here that indicated that.

What exactly are these "repeated questions" that seem to annoy you so much? In your answer, keep in mind that I was told earlier, by another member, that there was a specific thread here devoted to post-Feb. 05 transmissions issues with the 2G 3.2TLs and that I should "check in" there to read up on some of the issues I've asked about. I spent quite awhile (i.e., wasted my time) looking for it, to no avail. I have admittedly "repeatedly asked" about that, thinking I might have missed it and maybe someone could point me to it (which would, in turn, presumably have answered some of my earlier questions by now). Do you find that unreasonable, and if so, why?

 

Bristol,

Here are a couple of threads I was able to find discussing the post February 2005 transmissions:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165149

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148929

Bob

 

No problem - the 1st replacement was done in '04 at 80K, the second this past summer ('07) at 165K. The 1st failure the symptoms were very mild, just a slight hiccup while going about 15-20 mph in town. The dealer had a tech take it for a ride with me and he said yes, you need a new trans. The 2nd replacement, this past summer, was a major failure - was going to pass a truck on a 2 lane highway, punched the gas and when the downshift initiated it poped out of gear and revved way up, then caught in 2nd gear. It was like many have described here. Major smell coming form engine compartment - hot trans oil.

I am hoping the '05 "fix" is just that. I did get a 36/36 with this last trans, so I'm good to just over 200K.

I am getting to the point where I enjoy having a car that is paid off. I have it set up the way I want, sat stereo, kicker sub and iPod jack. I like my classic rock to be just right Seriously, I installed the sub because it was leftover from my Jetta (no bass whatsoever in VW's) and the people that installed the sat receiver couldn't get it to work with the OEM Bose sub. Takes up a little trunk space, but better than sitting in the garage or selling for a loss.

I'm rambling, but the point is I'm happy with the car and wouldn't mind driving it a few more years. Good looks, power, handling, MPG and very reliable. When I bought the car at 79K, I started Mobil 1 and a quality filter every 10K. It just keeps running and running - never a drop of fluid under the car.

Every now and then I think about a G35 6 speed, but man they get poor MPG, and then I'd have a payment again. Maybe a Gen4 with AWD?? I think I'll just be happy with what I have for now.

 

Thank you!

Interesting reading. BillySacco in the first thread and joedogghai in the second thread both wondered similar things that I've asked/wondered about. I'm sure there are thousands of people all over the country who have too but don't post on this forum (or even know about this site).

I liked the picture that fsstyms1 posted of the oil jet kit. I've been wondering what that looked like.

I still haven't had time to go thru all the threads in the CL section, so I'm gonna 'take a break' until I've done that.

 

Yeah, so both of your failed transmissions were the pre-Feb. '05 models. That's encouraging -- if the second one had been a post-Feb. 05 unit, that would have been disappointing. Like you say, hopefully your new one will last a lot longer. If you don't mind me asking (again), how much did you have to pay for this latest trans? Since you got the 36-36 warranty, I'm assuming they didn't "goodwill" it for free?

Dang -- your second trans went out while trying to pass a truck on a two-lane highway? How long did it take for your heart to start beating again?

That brings up another question: Was that the first time you'd noticed anything wrong at all, or was it a sitch where the trans had been slipping or acting up a little before that and you just hadn't taken it in to get checked out?

Yeah ... if it weren't for the trans problems, the 2G 3.2TLs would be considered one of the best cars ever in their class. I bet there a few Honda/Acura executives who wish they could hop in a time machine and ....

I looked at the G35 coupe too. Nice car except for the inexplicably weird-looking tail lights. And the 4-door version's tail lights are even worse. What in the world was Infiniti thinking? Even the reviews in the car magazines commented on how bad they look. Seems to be a trend ... I now find myself noticing how ugly a lot of modern cars' tail lights seem to be. I think maybe the people that are designing athletic shoes and boom boxes these days have made their way into car design departments or something. The TLs are just so beautifully designed, but a lot of newer cars, I just shake my head .... The G35s do supposedly have GREAT powertrains though. It was car of the year in Motor Trend back in 2003, I think. (Or was it Car & Driver? I forget.) I'm considering a ~2003-2004 Nissan Pathfinder as a possible alternative to a 2G TL if I decide not to get one. Great looking, great quality, but the downside is the gas mileage.

Now I'm rambling. Thanks for the feedback.

Later

 

No, not goodwill with 165K and 85K since the first replacement. What they did do was the entire $4K job for $1200. Because I paid some of the $ out of pocket I got the 36/36. I was very satisfied. I actually had it towed to my indy and they were going to do it until I heard from the dealer and the price - the indy said go for it, terrific deal.

No, it wasn't like that - it was a rural 2 lane and when I punched it and pulled out it was just a metter of moving back over into my lane - I never got up next to the truck. My heart stopped because I knew something bad was wrong with my baby.

With the second failure it just went - no warning. I had just completed 2 - 1x3 trans oil changes with Amsoil - but I know that was unrelated as many here are running Amsoil trans fluid. I am a little anal about such things so when I did a 1x3 on this latest trans after 10K I used the Honda fluid.

I would have to get the sedan, and it would be an '06 or newer as they greatly improved it in '06 - more rigid frame and much improved interior. What I do like about Acura is they come all loaded up with the options - all you can opt for is navi. All the other makes nickel and dime you for many nice items and it winds up costing significantly more.

 

Actually the Ford transmissions have been doing quite well recently. Even when they do fail, there are REAL fixes for the problems by aftermarket R&D companies such as Sonnax.

 

My remembrance of ford trans probs was every tempo and taurus in the 90s needing a 2500$ trans rebuild at 50-60k miles- no warranty

 

I'm getting ready to buy my first car in a few days, a 1996 328is with 94k miles or a 2002 TL with 140k miles. No Dad or Bro to ask, so I'm asking you. "which would be better for a 18 yr old girl?"
They both cost $9000 ish. Should I really plan on putting away 100 a month for maintenance? Please dont say "get a Camry"
Thank you.

 

TL. It will be cheaper to maintain

 

Between those two, I would definitely get the TL. But you might want to consider a TL still under the 109,000 mile/7 year 9 month warranty. A $9,000 TL might not be much of a deal if it needs a $3,500 transmission six months done the road. As you can tell from reading this thread, second generation TLs have serious transmission reliability problems.

Be sure to ask if the 2002 TL is still running its original transmission. If not, find out when it was replaced. A replacement installed after February of 2005 might be very reliable.

I posted some routine things to check out when buying a used car in this thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/happy-new-year-165105/

Good luck with whatever you buy.

 

I just picked up a 2000 with 108k. The tranny seems smooth. Is there anyway to check if the tranny was replaced? Maybe no vin plate??

 

The easy way is to look at the bolts that hold the trans together. If the heads are painted blue- its a replacement. Techs are supposed to transfer the vin plate but rarely do so

Call acura at 1-800-382-2238 x5 and register as new owner. They are the warranty center and can tell you about prior replacement

 

Hello,
I am an owner of a 2000 Acura TL, it has approximately 95K miles on it.
The oiljet kit was installed at approximately 31000 miles. I usually perform a transmision drain and refill every 15K - 16k miles. My check engine light just came on a few weeks ago.
The transmission was starting to slip. The dealer in S. California replaced my transmission with a remanufactured one from Acura. Also, the ECU was replaced.
He replaced this under the acura extended warranty. My out of pocket cost was less than 50 bucks. Since the car was less than 7 years, 9 months old.

Does anyone know how long these remanufactured transmission last. ARe they any good at all. The dealership mentioned my new remanuactured is only good until April-May 2008.
That is the end of the 7 yr 9 month warranty. The remanufactured transmission was put in before new years 2008.

Thanks,
2000 AcruaTL, no navi.

 

^^^^^ There are very few post 05 tranny failure threads. The car should be good for a long time now. The pre 05 trannies were the problem. You have the newest update.

 

Yes, the new replacements are holding up well.

 

fyi, i had just under 51k on my 03 tl-s and tranny was doing the same slipping b.s. new (refurb) tranny. thought i bought an acura not a domestic. so im not the only one. anyone know what is causing these things to go out? have they corrected the prob on the refubs? any suggestions on how to prevent any future probs?

for those of you with dealer issues, sorry. the few times i have had to take my tl to the dealer i got a loaner with no questions asked. always a current year tl. when i took my tl in over x-mas for the tranny issue i got to drive the shit out of an 08 with under 2k mil.

 

I just purchased an 03 TL with 50k miles on it..I knew of the tranmission issue..after test driving it, it drove perfect. It was made in 7/03. I put my vin into the acura owners site and it looks like my ar is covered under the recall...should I go ahead and get the jet kit, or hold off until it starts giving me problems??

Some all around good advice would be greatly appreciated.

-jf

 

Absolutely get the oil jet kit installed if it hasn't been done already. It does address one failure mode for the transmission. And Acura might balk at warranty coverage of the transmission if the oil jet was never installed.

And make sure that your car is covered by the extended warranty on the transmission. That's not the same thing as the recall. Not all 2003 TLs are covered. Are you sure that it was manufactured in 7/03? Or is that the original "in-service" date?

 

Ok..just called Acura, they said the jet kit was installed in 04, and the tranny was replaced in september 06', probably about 3-5k miles on it. How concerned should I be with the 06' on there. What were the changes done by 06', is it gonna last or this gonna turn into another horror story.


07/03 is on the vin plate - Im assuming that is the manufacture date.

 

My dh and I purchased our '02 TL-S in '05 very shortly after I was at the receiving end of a very bad rearend collision with our '99 Camry. Basically, we needed to get a new car immediately after the Camry was "repaired"; Florida driving is a wonderful thing!

We purchased the TL with 61k miles on it and purchased every bit of gap insurance and warranty coverage we could which meant we ended up with a 3/36k mile powertrain warranty. The first night of ownership we learned of the tranny issues. Of course we attempted to do as much research on the car as we could prior to our purchase, but the tranny prob eluded us. Within a day of ownership the powersteering pump gave out, but the dealer stepped up and fixed it for us, n/c.

At any rate, within the first week of ownership we noticed the tranny did some skipping and just some randomly odd stuff. We called Acura and made sure the recall oil jet kit was installed. Then, somewhere around 85k miles or so it started doing some really bad hesitating and jumping around. Around 87k miles it started this strange stuttering thing when shifting from first to second, and finally, one day my dh was driving home and called me with the bad news. The tranny was was clunking into gear, reving like crazy, the check engine light was on, the VSA light was blinking, and the tranny was done. By this time the car had about 91k miles on it.

Dh managed to drive the car 30 miles home with the bad tranny, and he did some calling around. He first called Crowne Acura in Clearwater; they were really helpful, knew all about the recall, and were ready for us that day. Then, he called Ferman Acura where we got the automated telephone runaround, and when he finally was able to speak to a service rep she acted like she knew nothing about a recall until dh called her out. Needless to say we went with Crowne Acura.

We drove the car from Pasco to Clearwater clunking and hesitating the whole way. It was quite nerve-racking! They hooked us up with an '07 TL rental (which is a story in and of itself). The car was in the shop over the Thanksgiving holiday; it was a long wait. They changed out 2 engine mounts, the tranny, the PCM (sp?), windshield wiper motor, and a temperature sensor (unrelated to tranny). Most of the work was covered by Acura and our extended warranty with the exception of the temp sens.

The day they called for us to p/u the car we jumped in the rental and were ready to get our baby. On the way, I was rearended in the rental car! Freakin-a! I was so p/o'd I didn't get out of the car until FHP showed up. The dealership was very understanding about the whole ordeal, and when we finally showed up everyone was outside to witness the damage. I just refused to look at it; I was so mad. On the one hand I was thankful it wasn't my own car, but the last time I was rearended the guy didn't have insurance and that just seems to be my kind of luck. Then I was thinking I bought all that gap insurance, and now I have a car that I might want to get rid of after this tranny thing, could have used that gap crap, but anyway....

It's been about 3k miles, and the first 1k were the smoothest she has ever shifted. Now, I do notice some thunking when she shifts from 1 to 2 and downshifts; but nothing worse than the '07 TL we drove. I'm hoping and praying she gets us through another 30 to 40k and more. She did have one "fainting spell" when I had to abruptly stop in a jam on the expressway; she sputtered and came back to life. It was disconcerting, but it hasn't happened again.

Have yet to find a funner car to drive (other than my '72 VW, which is a whole other kind of love affair); not even the '07 was as peppy off the line. Would I trade my car for another? Hard to say at this point. I would trade for a similar pymt on a reliable Toyota/Lexus but that is about as far as my heart wonders as of today.

That's our story, and as for those post '05 and updated PCM people keep us updated on mileage, please. Curious to see how far we'll go!

 

Bearhugs, Im in the about the same situation, except I bought the car with the replacement tranny and found out after the purchase...like I said in the previous post it was installed 09/06. It drives perfect, but when Im driving, Im almost looking for an issue in the tranny. Not sure how long I'll keep b/c the problem with the replacement will always be on my mind. It's more psychological than anything.

What are the current opinions the replacement tranny's installed in on 2006?

Thanks for the input.

 

they are fine with a very low failure rate, much less than a gen3 car- their trans is worse than ours- go figure how that fix worked!
Keep the car and enjoy- the trans is the only major issue you face and now its done.
Its like starting out with half a new car- and the engine is great- so its a mostly new car now!
The metal plate on the door is month-year of cars productiopn- acura has the actual date of first in service

 

You should notice 1-2nd gear are a little stiffer and hold higher rpm when engine cold
thats part of the engine warm up program, then it should shift smooth in each gear.
Give it 1000 miles of break in before abusing the trans

 

I just picked mine up from Acura of Modesto a few hours ago and it did exactly that. I even tested the sport shift (or whatever it's called) and the difference was very obvious. With my old transmission the shifts were delayed and now they are instantaneous! As soon as you upshift or downshift the transmission shifts immediately. The tech said it doesn't have to be broken in but I'm gonna play it safe and take it easy for about a thousand miles.

 

I noticed a lot of you guys with transmission issues have Type S TL's. I have a 2003 3.2 with Navi with 95,000 miles with original transmission. I think :-/?

 

I don't think there's any reliability difference between transmissions in the TL and the TL-S.

Did you check to see if your 2003 TL is covered by the extended warranty? If it is, you'll want to be on the lookout for transmission problems before you reach the 109,000 miles limit on the warranty.