roscoe1972

I just acquired a 2001 TL with 224,000mi. A new trans. was installed in Sept. 2005 at 70,000mi. The car was well maintained, but I didn't see any transmission services listed. The fluid level was good and it didn't smell burnt.

What do you recommend I do to maintain the transmission? Do I leave well enough alone as some advise with old A/Ts?

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I strongly recommend what is referred to as a 3x3 service. Basically, drain the tranny (about 3-quarts), refill it, drive it a bit, and then repeat the procedure two more times.

Jason46

Given my recent experience with a 2011 TSX I would advise against doing 3 drain and fills. If the fluid looks really bad or old I would do a single drain and maybe 3000 miles later do another. I did a 3x3 of Maxlife and went through a semi-painful what we'll call break in period with hard shifting. I did do another single drain/fill of Honda ATF, maybe that helped. I'm scared to touch it now that its shifting has smoothed out.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^that's cuz you used maxlife...lol
3x3 with OEM fluid works for auto transmissions.

Jason46

I found threads saying maxlife had better shift characteristics and honda fluid was garbage. Maybe it's only true for younger or better kept trannys.

Iggy

Grab 9 Qts of Honda/Acura ATF DW-1 fluid. ONLY genuine DW-1! Not Maxlife or anything else that claims to be compatible.

Drain fluid(3qts will come out), fill with 3qts then drive enough to cycle through all the gears including reverse. Repeat the process a total of 3 times and you are done. Double check the fluid level after the third time while the engine is still warm and within 90 seconds of shutting the engine off.

These transmissions like fresh OEM fluid so don't be worried about the old school notion of leaving a high mileage transmission alone.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

The old Z1 Honda fluid wasn't that good. But the newer DW1 is synthetic and much better. I'd suggest sticking to it for all Honda transmissions, including ones that came out before DW1 was even around. They've discontinued Z1 altogether as far as I know.

There's been reports of Maxlife working well, even better than DW1 according to some. Of course, that's most anecdotal and subjective. Still, I stick to what's worked. I have 152K miles on my 2012 TL 6AT and it's running as well as when I bought it at 58K miles. No slipping, no shudders, no hesitation and quick engaging. Still feels brand new. I drain about 3.5 quarts followed by a refill every 10K miles or so with a filter change every other time (20K miles).

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Also keep in mind the MaxLife faithful are both vocal and militant, suggest to them they are not using an approved ATF and they'll brand you a troll.

Jason46

Technically maxlife does list dw1 on the bottle, what do you mean not approved?

I wish this thread existed about 2 months ago when I was searching the same question as Rosco.

Had I not done any research probably would have got mobil1, I wasn't nt aware honda made atf fluid

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Technically nothing; look at the language, it does not say it is approved. The only body which can approve a fluid is compliant with the intended specifications is Honda.

Think about it this way, of the various properties of ATF, the Coefficient of Friction (COF) is the single most important one. Every manufacturer designs and builds their transmissions to expect ATF with friction properties to fall within a very specific range; now look at the MaxLife bottle; how many recommended applications do you see for that ATF? Do you honesty believe all of those transmissions were designed to expect the same COF? Long story short, the only ATF approved for current Honda automatic transmissions is DW-1.

frankjnjr

FWIW: As most every knowledgeable person, commenting on your post advises, use only Honda DW1! Since your unsure of the service history, post replacement, you may also want to consider changing the external transmission fluid FILTER. It's modestly easy to do, costs very little, and most likely, hasn't been done in years. It may be interesting, for you to cut the old filter open, just to see what the media paper has trapped.

01acls

Yes and yes, that's because Mercon ATF is an oil Standard. Hence it's referenced by a lot of automobile manufacturers. Manufacturers literally build their transmission around Mercon ATF.

DW1 ATF is not an oil Standard. DW1 is nothing more than a generic knock off of some other brand that the patent have expired or Honda is licensing the ATF from another company but not disclosing the other company's brand name. The name DW1 is nothing more than a Copy Right name.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

@01acls, lolz, you got anything but lots of words to back up those claims?

01acls

Sure why not, I'll play your game. I shall show you mine and you shall show me yours.




DW1 doesn't have a Patent so nothing to show.

Now your turn: Horseshoez, lolz, you got anything but lots of words to back up those claims that Valvoline Max Life cannot be use in all those manufacturers transmissions?

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Where does any of of the above show compatibility with DW-1? It doesn't. As for showing documentation to support my case, I cannot show what does not exist; you cannot prove a positive with a negative. Think about it, why even bother documenting incompatibility?

01acls

Exactly, DW1 doesn't exist so there is nothing to be compatible with. DW1 doesn't have a Standard so how are you going to measure what is compatible or not? DW1 is just a marketing name or trade mark.

Again, Horseshoez, lolz, you got anything but lots of words to back up those claims that Valvoline Max Life cannot be use in all those manufacturers transmissions?

Yeah, I thought so you got nothing but shit that you like to make up.

​​​​​​

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Now you're just being silly.

01acls

The truth is stranger than silly (fiction).

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

You ask for truth, and then produce some documentation which doesn't connect the dots. When you ask for proof of my statement all I can say is, there isn't any. Why? Because auto companies don't bother preparing incompatibility studies on things they know are incompatible. The fact is, from an engineering perspective, you cannot prove a positive with a negative. The only proof of your claims would be if you can produce both Honda and Valvoline documentation which shows compatibility of the friction properties. Lacking any such proof, the two ATFs are deemed incompatible until proven otherwise.

From another perspective, burden of proof of compatibility rests solely with those making claims of compatibility (i.e. Valvoline, and by extension, you). If you don't believe me (and I certainly don't expect you to), look it up.

01acls

Again, the truth is you still have nothing so you can say whatever you want but it doesn't make it true unless you can show otherwise. By your own admission you can't proof a double negative then you still have nothing. No proof of anything that you have said is true. Period.

1. The truth is Honda recommends Dex 3 to be mix with DW1 in an emergency. That's a fact so there is no disputing that.

2. Valvoline Max Life is compatible with DW1 viscometrics per their data done by an independent lab testing. According to their Product Information sheet. In addition, Valvoline Max Life is compatible with Dex 3. So anyway you want to look at it or test it, Valvoline Max Life is compatible. End of story.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

You keep missing the point; the only way to prove what you say is to show evidence; from an engineering perspective, even if they are 100% compatible, they are not compatible until proven so.

01acls

I'm not missing anything. You're in denial.

1. From an engineering stand point the Independent Lab proved that it is compatible.

2. Honda also confirmed by recommend mixing it in an emergency.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

You have yet to produce any documentation which proves the first point; the second is no proof at all; in fact, it can be taken as an indictment against your claims.

01acls

I'm not the one here who presented no proof as proof in a discussion by way of a double negative.





If you want the Independent Lap test results, I would suggest you contact Valvoline directly or just stay the way you are... Ignorant.

Since you speak only of lies or simply just make shit up, then nothing else needs to be said. My job here is done. Out.
​​​​​

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Well I guess we can end this discussion, your latest post just proved my point. I refer you to the paragraph which says:

• Valvoline recommends MaxLife ATF in a broad range of transmissions. The list below is just a sample of applications where Valvoline supports the use of MaxLife ATF. Valvoline has conducted in-house testing, independent lab testing, and field-tessting to support MaxLife ATF performance in these transmissions; however, it is important to note that the respective vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated nor approved MaxLife ATF in these applications.

So, unless and until, Honda either formally blesses MaxLife (unlikely), or Valvoline publishes the the various properties of MaxLife in comparison to DW-1, then, once again from an engineering perspective, the two are not compatible ATFs.

With the above said, this is where my involvement in this discussion goes on hold as we've been over this ground before, again and again.

01acls

You're still delusional, Honda doesn't own a patent on DW1. There is nothing for them to bless. A blessing means nothing from Honda. A blessing is not scientific. Where an Independent Lab test is scientific and unbiase. The best that any company can do in terms of verification of any metrics.

The only thing Honda owns in terms of DW1 is the Trademark Name for marketing purposes.

Max Life has published viscometrics, I just don't post it because DW1 is not a Standard. Given DW1's history and the failures of honda transmissions DW1 viscometrics is absolutely not something you would want to duplicate. In other words, if you keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. Well, that's just crazy. LOL

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Considering the source, I consider your attempted insult a compliment.

01acls

I rest my case Certified Delusional.

Darksyne

From my experience the only reasons Honda had high transmission failures from late 90s to mid 2000s models is just the bad design flaws of the transmissions themselves and would've failed eventually with any fluid. That and Z1 atf broke-down wayyyy too quickly.
Btw isn't Honda's atf designed based around Dexron 3 fluid? Because Honda themselves said dexron 3 will work in emergency situations.
Yes you're right that Honda's atf isn't anything special and is based of common dexron/mercon fluid just with different additive packs and friction modifiers that make them work best with the Honda transmissions.
Personally I love the DW-1 transmission fluid because of it's synthetic properties and it works while only costing $10 a bottle so I don't feel that it's necessary to use something like Max life or amsoil atf despite others using it with success.
I'm a huge believer in using what is recommended by the OEM because they engineered the car and the parts around them.
Unless I start experiencing weird transmission behavior or leaks maybe i'll try Maxlife but for me a once a year fluid change with DW-1 atf keeps my transmission happy.
If you really want to prove your point on comparing Maxlife and DW-1 ATF then do a Virgin oil analysis and compare the additives and specs to see how similar they are or which one has the better additive pack.
There's no point in arguing with horseshoez no matter what facts you show him because he won't believe you even if you have stone cold proof with numbers, trust me I've tried.

01acls

I am a firm believer of oem parts for sure and probably more so than most people. I advocate for OEM parts because of their consistently superior quality controls to aftermarket parts. That is in part why you're paying a much higher price for an oem part vs an aftermarket part. However, there is almost always an exception to most rules.

DW1 is not a bad ATF for sure but, one could argue it has it's flaws. From my experiences the DW1 doesn't hold up well in-between the TL recommended service intervals. Which by Acura's own standard that is a failure for sure. I mean the Acura recommend service intervals is the standard for which we rely on. After 1.5 trans failures I was forced to find a possible solution to this all too familiar problem so I try Valvoline Max Life.

Max Life did part of the job of reviving what was left of the .5 part of the trans. In addition to Max I also used 2 shots of XADO EX 120 additive/conditioner. Between changing 100% of the DW1 to 100% of Max and XADO the trans miraculessly came back to life from the brink of only having 1st, 2nd gears, and slipping in 3rd (flair) gear going up hill. This made a believer out of me that Max maybe a better fluid than DW1.

Honestly, I'm not sure if Max is better than DW1 but it certainly is compatible with DW1 and it may be use as a direct replacement of DW1 for sure. The way I see it Max is at least as good as DW1. Aside from Max saving me $2500, what I like about Max is it's good value and it's availablility at my local auto parts store.

Note: Prior to switch to Max I had already done a trans filter change and a 3x3 with DW1. The TL was still shuddering badly and slipping in multiple gears.

Also the other 1.0 trans that die was from a 03 Honda 3.0 V6 using DW1 at 220,000K all highway miles with zero trans service.

Thanks for the advice on Horseshoez.

Darksyne

No problem and that's exactly what I would do if my trans decided to act weird on me, I'd switch it to either maxlife or Amsoil atf to see if their high mileage additives can clean up or rejuvenate the worn components.
What I did when I took over my 2000 TL from my parents is I immediately changed the ATF fluid and filter with DW-1 because it probably had Z1 in it since it was stored for 4 years and the fluid was probably only changed once since the car got an updated tranny in 2006 under warranty.
Ever since then I change the fluid every year and filter every two years since it's super easy on these cars and costs less than doing an oil change and it's been working mint ever since. Changing the filter is much easier with the cold air intake too lol.

And no problem this thread will show you why I warned you about Horseshoez lol https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...age-tl-969546/

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Me thinks you two little girls need to grow up, get educated, and grow a pair.

Jason46

I came to a rather negative conclusion about maxlife early on in this thread. I’m fairly certain my troubles are from a faulty solenoid and the oil does not make as much difference as we think. But, I’ve been wrong before..

01acls

Ladies, Gentleman, and Horseshoez

I think I owe the op Roscoe1972 an obligatory response to his original post so here you go.

1. Replace the external trans filter.
2. Do a 100% drain and fill with Valvoline Max Life or DW1. As an alternative you can do a 4x3.
3. To maintain the trans fluid what you need to do is keep the ATF from getting burnt or turning black. Once the ATF gets over heated the fluid can only lubricate and protect the trans for about an hour. After that it's all down hill from there. The trans will likely implode if you don't change the ATF.

I would suggest to you that to maintain a healthy transmission you should change out the majority of the ATF in the trans within a 30-35k miles interval. The trans capacity is around 7.5 quarts.

If you live in a climate that's consider a hot climate then you should consider a trans cooler. Either an external air cooler or a radiator cooler (1999 TL Radiator).

I'm using the radiator cooler and it works great. Surprisingly, it makes a noticable difference in how the trans shifts. It appears to be keeping the ATF at an ideal viscosity... Who knew.

We sincerely apologize for Horseshoez's inappropciate behavior. It doesn't know anything and/or any better.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

You know, I have tried to keep this about the subject, even weathering several personal insults with only one smart ass retort. I strongly suggest you stick to the topic and refrain from further insults or I will take off the gloves, and this forum will be the loser.

Mr Hyde

Knock it off guys; play nice.

As a former 2G TL Type-S owner, if this car fell into my lap, I would do a drain and fill every few months until you have 3 in the books instead of just one day suddenly changing it out.

I'd also use the OEM fluid since it doesn't cost all that much, and it takes a variable out of the equation on these fragile transmissions/clutch packs.

Skirmich

Cmon guys... That's about it..

OP question has been answered move along.

Darksyne

Faulty solenoid or clogged screens are usually the culprit when these transmissions start acting weird especially if it's been replaced with the redesigned model or the AV6 tranny. DW-1 works fine and is the best safe bet. If you were gonna switch to max life or amsoil to try it out then I recommend you flush out the old Honda ATF with a 3x3 change. Other than that, keep the ATF clean and red and you'll have nothing to worry about.

frankjnjr

FWIW: Bought my 03 TLS with 198K, in June,2014. Performed several 3X drain and refills, over the last four years, and 43K miles, always using DW1. Transmission still operates flawlessly. Both horseshoez, and 01acls, make very valid points. In my case, since DW1 has served me well, I prefer to stick with it. To quote 01acls, "Max Life did part of the job of reviving what was left of the .5 part of the trans. In addition to Max I also used 2 shots of XADO EX 120 additive/conditioner. Between changing 100% of the DW1 to 100% of Max and XADO the trans miraculessly came back to life from the brink of only having 1st, 2nd gears, and slipping in 3rd (flair) gear going up hill. This made a believer out of me that Max maybe a better fluid than DW1" Should I experience any FUNKY operational issues, I would not hesitate to experiment with 01acls's recommendation.

Darksyne

I think it's because Max life is technically a "high mileage" fluid so it probably has additional additives to rejuvenate gaskets and clean and break down contaminants so maybe those additives cleaned up the solenoid screen filters which is normally the culprit for weird transmission behavior in these cars. I'd just stick to DW-1 until you notice weird behavior.