chris03tl

Wifes car has been acting like the front wheels were out of balance. In an attempt to diagnose that 100%, I swapped the fronts with the rears (the fronts are also worn a lot more than the rears so it was probably time to do that anyway)

The wheel shimmy went away, but now I get a howling noise from the front end. I call it an "oscillating" noise, its like a wuh wuh wuh wuh wuh. Changes with speed, not engine RPM. Under 20 mph its hard to hear but Im guessing its still there. It also doesnt get worse or better when turning....same noise same loudness going left, straight or right.

When I pulled the wheels to swap them I checked condition of bushings, CV joint boots, etc and everything looked OK. Grabbed each front wheel at 12 and 6 and 9 and 3 and everything was tight.

Car is an '03 with 78K miles. Tires (which Im not too happy with, BTW) are General Altimax HP.

Going to take it to a shop as soon as I can (Tuesday), not going to drive it until then either, but in the meantime I figured Id ask if anyone had any ideas.

Thanks in advance.

-Chris

chris03tl

Cant edit so Ill add:

noticed that if I step on the brakes ever so slightly, the noise goes away (or at least gets low enough where I cant hear it anymore)

Carbuff

My bet is that you are hearing the wear on the tires. The tread is probably "feathered".

Try swapping the fronts side-to-side and see if the noise becomes tolerable.



And: next set of tires, rotate them on a regular basis....

chris03tl

Yeah, I was thinking (hoping) its something as simple as tires but the fact it goes away with braking makes me wonder.

And the Altimax's seemed to wear way too quickly, even without rotation. I know it might have prolonged it a little but I think Im only at 20K miles and the "tire replacement monitor" is basically already worn out.

Im thinking there might be something bigger than tires going on here, hopefully I can get a mechanic that can diagnose it. Would bring it to the dealer but Im worried it will come back with a laundry list and I wont know whats real and whats "fluff" to increase profits.

BTW, the brake rotors are warped...I know this already. Kinda wondering if that might be causing an imbalance while driving. Also going to check the calipers to make sure they are sliding freely.

Carbuff

I think you are checking all the right stuff. Doesn't sound as if you have any worn or loose front end components. The consistency of the noise negates the chance that you have a bad wheel bearing.


I have friends that got lazy and didn't rotate tires often enough. When we finally switched them, they roared as you described. Swapping the fronts side-to-side makes them go in the "quiet" direction.

If they are too irritating for you, the only fix is to buy new.

++++++++++++

The feeling of Warped Rotors is often the Pad Redeposits that you get when braking hard then holding the hot brakes on while stopped.

Read this:
http://tinyurl.com/72j4qvy

Get all your drivers to develop the habit of stopping a car length back, and maintaining a creep until the light changes, or the car ahead exits the freeway ramp...

You may have to turn or replace your present rotors to get rid of the vibration. I got 150K miles out of my OE rotors (that everyone complains about).

chris03tl

Unfortunately these tires are directional, so I cant leave them swapped left to right......I may try it temporarily just to see if the noise goes away.

Just for my curiosity - if the noise gets better/goes away under braking, how would tires explain it? I kinda figured it meant something is loose up front (maybe even a caliper, or a frozen caliper), or the rotors were warped enough that they might be hitting the pads while the brakes arent pressed

Carbuff

The roar noise comes from the tires riding on the "tips" of the feathered edges, now that they have been moved. So, during braking, the tires "flatten" (force on the tread is opposite of cruise or acceleration) and they quiet down.

Hope you understand, I'm having problems expressing myself through the keyboard...

++++++++++++


I resist buying directional tires for the reason you are facing. I read many years ago that the directional tread is worth 10 - 15% for water evacuation. So you wouldn't be giving up that much by running them "backwards". (But, be prepared for derision from knowledgeable friends and tire professionals.)

Normal rotation practice for FWD is to move the fronts to the rear, then cross the rears side-to-side when they are fitted to the front. But you can't do that with directional tires.

MilwaukeeDave

iTrader: (3)

Even in a FWD car the tires with the best tread should be in the rear. Just a heads up.

chris03tl

Makes sense, so yeah I do understand And I will be looking closely at replacement tires to make sure they are NOT directional.

As far as where the best tread should go, this is just an experiment for now. If the problem is indeed the tires, I will be ordering at least 2 replacements, possibly 4 (hopefully non-directional this time!)

While we're at it, any suggestions on a replacement tire? This is my wifes car, so not really any "spirited" driving. Just want a decent tire with a decent ride (comparable to OEM all those years ago) with good treadwear so I dont have to keep replacing them every couple years.

01tl4tl

use www.tirerack.com as resource for learning about tires, and actual TL owners comments by clicking on a TL icon
FWD and 25k on fronts is normal in my experience

I dont rotate, and do run directional summer/performance tires,
general uhp- now a set of barum in the front,,,they were 150$ each -on the car-out the door- taxes yadayada (americas tire for info on both)
Some prefer to buy 2 new at a time--rather than 4,,the rears last way longer ..60k+? and maintaining good grip

with warped rotors and out of balance tires: I wouldnt be surprised to find the hub bearing is shot
all that motion concentrates in a small area at the center--one you wont feel on inspection
but can be heard with a mechanics stethascope while buddy is spinning the tire

chris03tl

I have a mechanics steth.

Where should I point it to listen to the hub bearing?

Im guessing I need both front wheels off the ground, and one wheel off while I listen to the hub, and a helper turning the other wheel so I can hear it.