Fran D

I am specifically interested in those who have successfully remedied, even for a short term, the random downshift to 2nd with the 5 speed auto. I don't need "your tranny is toast" and/or "take it to the dealer" replies. I get that and I am already working that angle. But since the VIN of my 03 TL is north of the cut-off for the extended warranty, I need to put together a Plan B (Plan C is throwing in a remanufactured trans myself).

Like others on this forum, I have an 03 TL with 70K, that I bought used at ~60K. It had the oil jet kit installed about five years ago at 20K. Just this past week, it started the infamous slip and bang from 1st to 2nd, and then produced the intermittent downshift to 2nd from 5th at road speeds of 40+ MPH. The car threw P0730 & P0780, flashing D5 and TCS light.

At this point I've done the 3X3 change and reset the controller, and that has helped a bit. The fluid in the trans (which probably hadn't been touched since the oil jet installation) was a little dark, but not horrendous. It didn't smell burnt and there was some material on the drain plug, but nothing inconsistent with 50K+ miles of use.

It's still not fixed, though. It hasn't re-thrown any codes, but if I continue to drive it I expect it will. The most disconcerting part is the downshift. This hasn't happened at highway speeds, but I've read posts by others who have experienced it at those speeds.

I saw the post by someone who seemed to address a problem with his 4-speed auto 99 TL by cleaning debris from the screen of one of his solenoids. Has anyone had similar success with the 5-speed? Have there been any other fixes, short of replacing the trans, that look like they could work? I know that there are the clean/replace options for some of the shift solenoids, but I'm looking for actual positive experience.

01tl4tl

if you have a minor problem, diy section has cleaning the selenoids, if not in ours look in gen3- they have it
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-1999-2003-98/new-official-2nd-gen-tl-diy-thread-706083/ thats gen2 diy list

you have a more severe problem,
likely made worse with the 3x3 fluid change, as the cleaners in the fluid push out crud holding the clutch plate material onto the clutch disc, which has prematurely worn away from lack of cooling oil flow

That sudden downshift into 2nd used to happen on the freeway at 70mph- when snapping of the 2nd gear shaft occured from overheat stress, and stopping the car very quickly
Thats why the `recall` to install the external oiler kit- it sprays oil directly onto that shaft thru the normal oil filler hole for the trans

for your situation now:
read the thread `Tranny Failure thread`, last few pages of post on `Goodwill`
or use the search feature for transmission goodwill

low miles car out of vin CAN get goodwill coverage from the dealer/corp
Service MANAGER is who talks to the acura regional warranty rep for approval of partial or full coverage if they feel the situation/you merits a $4000 freebie

They know the ending vin number was not a `we fixed it!!` thing- it was to settle the court case and thats all=
so refunds and replacements could get underway back in 04
the same problem went right into 04 and 05 cars so acura knows the problem is there.

Where are you in the process with the dealer- have they diagnosed it and decided its toast?
then what happened?

if not seen yet thats first step- diagnosed- then sweet talking the service manager with your brand loyalty- your 3rd acura, 4th in family,told 2 friends to buy acura!!!, just got this one recently based on prior cars were so good!!
and
starving student, new parent, low income job,,whatever your truth is- tell them- you are dealing with a human being who has to give up profit,, and put out effort too~

so where are you at with the dealer goodwill option A:

01tl4tl

the fluid was not touched at recall install of jet kit, not changed

most TL's never get a fluid change --the book wasnt calling for it back then

mileage wise you are right on schedule for its failure

01tl4tl

in town- or freeway stop and go traffic below 45mph- put it in D4 instead of 5

YeuEmMaiMai

the sudden downshift into 2nd is caused by a failure of an internal seal becuase some part move past it's limits. You will end up rebuilding the transmission over that one.

Fran D

I can't find any reference to cleaning the solenoids on those pages, so I'll try a more general search.

Fran D

That's kind of interesting, but from what I can tell the barrel valves are machined surfaces without any seals. They could probably move past their limits if the sping side broke. I can also see how that could be intermittent. Too bad there isn't a pan to drop to inspect the valve body.

The accumulator pistons are o-ringed, but I would expect that to fail by not hitting 2nd rather than dropping to it hard.

I haven't tried it, but since it's been implied that this downshift doesn't happen in manual mode or in D4, we probably need to trace the manual valve, kick-down valve and shift valve D fluid paths to see if there is someway to fall from 5th to 2nd.

Once again, if there is someone out there who has had real-world, hand's-on experience, I would appreciate the insight.

fsttyms1

When the trans gets to the stage where it drops into 2nd it is toast. The clutchpacks are too worn to hold. You may buy some time by cleaning solenoids and replacing the filter but it is a ticking time bomb. I pulled AND rebuilt one of my trans right after it did that. The 3rd gear clutchpacks were gone. Even the clutch drum was damaged.

acutee

There is a solenoid right below, to the left of the Tranny fluid stick. For 03, you have an external tranny filter, below the fluid warmer or close to the oiljet. Our tranny is thristy of fluid and clog filter will aid to its failure rate.

Fran D

Yes, I believe that any remedy is short-lived at best. That's all I'm betting on at the moment.

However, I have to admit that I have a hard time getting my head around a worn clutchpack being responsible for the hard downshift to 2nd. I do believe what you found in your case is true. Since this is happening to me during 5th at cruise, I need to figure out how it would allow it to cascade back to 2nd. On acceleration, though, each gear is held fine after the transition has been made. I would expect it to slip through the whole gear if it were very worn, but after a shift transition is made, it feels solid in gear...until it wants to drop back to second.

You may be absolutely correct that I may find a worn clutchpack or two upon disassembly. But this smells a lot more like a control issue rather than a friction issue.

Fran D

You know, I was crawling all over the thing this past weekend and couldn't find it. My service manual doesn't make any reference to it, so I assumed it's internal. I can get at that thing from the outside? It's toward the firewall-side of the transmission? I probably need to get the car higher in the air so that I can see it better.

acutee

Here you go #9 part, and right below the part #26 with many dots on it is the solenoid I was talking about.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ght=atf+filter

and the link to the cheap part. oem is about 40, part# 25450-P7W-003.

http://www.amazon.com/Transtar-Indus...0145941&sr=8-1

fsttyms1

It does that because of the debris (from the worn clutchpacks) that clogs solenoids and passages that changes the pressure at which the clutches can hold which causes slip and heat which in turn causes more wear. Its a giant vicious circle.

Its not a control issue, its the way the trans is designed and what happens here due to its manual trans style 3 shaft design. When 3rd looses its ability to hold it all falls back on the 1st and 2nd shaft and clutchpacks.

Fran D

That is excellent! Now I see why I missed it. Thanks!

x02xTLxPWN

my 2002 TL does the same thing, but i put some Lucas Stop Slip crap in it and it doesnt do it AS much. i've never had it throw up any codes, but i can eliminate the downshift completly by putting it in D4 or the pointless sport shift. try the Lucas tho, stuff works

Fran D

I need to try this and see if it works for me.

I'm not a big Lucas products fan, so that may be a higher barrier to climb.

Fran D

OK, I see where you're going with that. That gives me a place to look.

x02xTLxPWN

i hate lucas stuff too, but my dad had some hard shifting in his M6 SMG tranny and lucas worked. if it works in a Bimmer why the hell not in an Acura lol

YeuEmMaiMai

oops sorry about the mis information

this is the cause of sudden 5-2 downshift

Strainer failure analysis:

Acura made changes to the filter/strainer to keep it from “bursting” and causing a “sudden downshift.”


P812:

Lube pressure Data.

Conclusion: High claim months have low lube pressure


P880 – 881:

Mentions failure in valve body screens and strainers due to contamination and deterioration

P887:

“Mission #8027653 EMCS DATA ANALYSIS CONCLUSION.”

RESULT:

* When ATF strainer and each filter is blocked due to the wear of third clutch causing contamination through out mission. THE PL(MOD) pressure decreases due to the state of the hydraulic circuit on FIFTH. Shift valves A,B,C enters the state of turning off this becomes second hydraulic circuit. Result arrives at the incident of 5-2 kick down (EricL note: the bad grammar probably the result of a “translation” from Japanese to English and seems to be common in the documents.

Fran D

Thanks, this is exactly the type of data I am looking for. I missed this in my first search of "downshift", since I wasn't looking at the CL forum. I won't make that mistake again.

YeuEmMaiMai

^ can find all of that in the summary thread and more in the NHSTB thread