recently purchased 03 type s w/nav. 196,975 mi. very nice vehicle, with the original transmission. the problem is so slight as to be almost unnoticeable or may be a non problem and i am just imagining the rpm "fluctuation". the fluctuation occurs, or seems to occur after the car has been driven approx. one half - one mile from cold. i seem to notice or imagine that i notice a slight rpm fluctuation within ( 200 to 300 ) rpm. the car is in third gear or has just shifted into fourth at speeds between 32 and 38 miles per hour. i have researched the first 25 pages of the second gen. tl (problems and fixes) forum, tried the refined search technique and so far have not found any issue discussed with a symptom remotely similar to mine. there are no codes present, the car provides consistently acceptable economy and performance and i just want to make the car as perfect as i can make it. this nice a vehicle deserves the best. any ideas, experiences or knowledge relative to this issue would be appreciated.

 

Welcome

These transmissions are fragile, what your experiencing might be the lock up system engaging. Whats the condition of the transmission fluid ? might be low or overfilled, Non Honda Atf might have been used or simply needs an engine tune up. These are all possibilities.

 

welcome to the forum
thank you for diligent search for your problem before starting a new thread

to find out the condition of the trans- drain 3 ounces of atf and send to blackstone labs for mass spectrograph analysis -20 bucks will tell you if the clutches are coming apart in 3rd gear set and what is floating around, operating condition of fluid etc
What makes you say its the original transmission? do any bolt heads on trans have blue paint on them?
USE ONLY HONDA DW-1 atf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cannot stress that enough!!!!!

other possible prob would be dirty IACV idle air control, inside the TB, been a few of those with issues recently -often the fastest way to find your prob is look whats popular, things go in sets at repair shops, a week of water pumps for all, a week of caliper failures etc

have you looked thru the diy link? the 2 threads inside it contain links to almost every job someone here has done

2 cans of seafoam, 1 can to just under half tank of gas twice will clean internals like new
You are due for spark plugs, special 8 dollars each NGK, and for the 2nd time, the timing belt and water pump are due
at this age/miles I would do new thermostat, hoses and all belts, and valve adjust .
for sure clean intake manifold egr system and service tb and iacv cleaning
all that makes it run like new

BUT have the atf tested before spending money on the whole car
ck trans fluid level per book method- its not normal
free owner book download here www.owners.acura.com need cars VIN to reg
lots of good info on there plus store radio and nav security codes safely
also reg with acura care 1 800 382 2238x5 tell them new owner and ask if all recalls are done
there were a few in recent years and we may be part of that new Honda airbag one too
acura care sends out recall notices so they need a current address for the car

 

tip: when confronted with a 20+ page thread on trans or other probs, skip to last 3 pages
Chances are the thread started in 2004, in 10 years things have occurred making most of the original postings moot

 

Does it fluctuate at idle at all, ever?

 

Congrats on purchasing the TL-S.
These cars are not without their inherent quirks, so continue reading the forum's previous related threads and "DIY"s for common issues with our 2ng GEn TL's. Biggest problem is the weak tranny. Attempt to find out as much as possible about the previous PM history of your car.

At nearly 200k on the dial, many things are up for scheduled maintenance. So, start making a checklist and get all the essential stuff up to date for a clean start. These cars are well built and will perform indefinitely given the proper care. Keep in mind that any 10 year old car with 200k is going to require some TLC. Best of luck !!!

 

thank you for your input. i bought the car expecting the transmission to be on the verge of failure. that said, if and when it fails, it will be replaced with the improved Odessy unit. in a way, i almost wish it would fail so i can update it and recover the ability to drive it like it was meant to be driven. be well, fjn

 

when the fluid was not at all burnt, just dirty. i changed it immediately. via advice on this forum, i reluctantly passed on a (3X) flush, which would have been my choice. for some reason, the (3X) flush has caused problems for several members of this forum. the fluid level is spot on. i don't think it's being caused by the lock-up converter because that is a very distinct feeling. thanks for your suggestions. appreciate it. fjn

 

you for sure answered my question. pulled #1 plug to check, it's not ugly, but it clearly displays 98k miles of wear and tear. obviously, the manifold, egr, iacv all need attention and it will be interesting to see if this problem goes away. it's such a great car and cosmetically it was well maintained. this should take me a week to complete. appreciate the confirmation input. be well, fjn

 

never. i can be sitting in the car, idling, with the a/c on for a half an hour and it doesn't skip a beat.

 

did the 1 time drain of 3qts and refill with Honda dw1 improve the issue?

Since you are ok with its demise, use SS and downshift at high rpm into 3rd and 2nd!
any weakness in the clutchpacks will show up soon
lol at the things people did to wear out a trans reaching warranty limits, ahhhh the good ol days

you ckd level again after fluid change? its between the dots-at book specified temp for cking, not at either dot- halfway between is preferred..its not Add and Full its Low and MAX indicated, as noted before the indicated level changes with fluid temp

it will give up between 3 and 3.5 qts on a drain - depending on temps and patience

 

good advice. car passed rigorous Maryland State Inspection with exception of one broken fog lamp lens. so i think the "heavy" things are under control. looking forward to the minor refinements which will turn this car from a very nice car to a semi perfect car. thanks for the advice, appreciate it. fjn

 

hey 01tl4tl, honda fluid. check level 2x per week. level at mid-range, right where it should be. i shouldn't have said i wanted it to fail, that would be a major inconvenience right now, so i'll hold off on the ss mode downshifts for now. haven't even operated it in ss mode yet. i'd rather do the transmission up-grade last, if poss. ps what do you consider "high" rpm?

 

very thorough response to my issue. thank you. spectrogram analysis not useful to me at this time because i'm not concerned about the chemical/mechanical condition of the fluid. i would like to prolong the inevitable, if possible, but i am looking forward to upgrading to the improved odessy transmission when the time comes. from your advice and research here, i suspect the air induction system may well be the problem. doesn't appear intake has ever been removed, sure it must be ugly in there! no blue paint evident and trans bolts, they look pristine, no marks whatsoever. not a big believer in the sea foam process but plan to do it anyway, after manifold service but before new ngk s, just in case i miss some crud during the mechanical service to the intake system. the diy section is great and i rely on it for everything i do on this car. thank you again for your interest in a strangers problem. fjn

 

We Ziner's all share the common interest in sharing the wealth of information which has been acquired over the years. Enjoy your ride and may the Acura Gods shine upon you and your TL.

 

I would do the intake manifold cleaning procedure, change the plugs etc and see what happens from there. I have seen other posts regarding slight rpm fluctuations. My 02 type S does sometimes act a bit funny when it first goes into 4th within a few miles of driving from sitting overnight. It always when just moving at light throttle maybe around 35mph. It will sometimes have a fast studder as if the TC unlocked and
Locked really quickly. My fluid is nice and clean and I have changed it frequently. A tube of lubegard red helped eliminate my low rpm shakes

 

thanks mark. this is exactly the issue i was trying to describe minus the "stutter" i recognize the stutter your referring to, i occasionally experience a similar feeling when going a slight grade, with very little throttle and the transmission can't seem to figure which gear it wants to be in. seems it upshifts to fourth than almost immediately downshifts back to third. only experienced this a couple times and don't think it is an indication of an issue. i think this transmission is almost too intuitive and sometime it still gets confused. can' get over how well it runs considering zero attention to top end maintenance and plugs with almost 100k. can't wait to see how it does when i get it right. thank you very much for your interest in my problem. fjn

 

seafoam really is your new best friend
follow the instructions I gave on gas tank method to make a noticeable difference

you need to do the egr cleaning of manifold internally, and service/clean the TB air plate and IACV

 

Redline rpm downshifts are the ones that put excess heat in the trans clutches.
the ecu wont let you downshift at an rpm that will exceed redline in the next gear down, so that's a bonus~
wont let you rev over 5000 in park either
amazing things to be found in owner book

 

hey 01tl4tl, your thoughts please. "seafoam really is your new best friend" normally, i don't use any type cleaner or additives in my cars. not usually recommended by asian manufacturers. form what i have learned here, seafoam is affective and unlikely to damage the 02 sensors or the cat. my thought is that after i perform all the top engine maintenance, than, and just for good measure, i perform the seafoam process. would you recommend seafoam before, or after the maintenance process, and why?

 

Best to seafoam before u change oil and plugs. 1 can crankcase/fuel tank 4 maximum cleaning.

 

Clean the TB intake, IAC valve, and EGR passageways first.......then use a fuel system cleaner such as Seafoam in the gas tank. This will help internally clean off any residual carbon left from the previous intake and EGR cleaning process. Then finally, install new NGK plugs for optimum performance results.

 

My TL has been doing the exact same thing.

On my way to work I drive a stretch of road that is 35 MPH. Occasionally my RPMs will bounce between 200 - 300, occasionally up to 500. I can feel the car lurch forward. I have a feeling it has to do with EGR or the TB being dirty. I have the updated post 2005 trans (Not immune to failure, I know) and I keep the fluid clean. 110k on the transmission, 209k on the body and no signs of failure yet.

 

Yeah, as these car's age.....the above mentioned stuff is rather common. Most folks are complacent and will tend to just accept the inherent quirks like stuttering hesitation as being normal behavior.

However, in reality as ya previously mentioned about the motor getting gunked up and the tranny loosening, arithmatic dementia eventually starts settling into the car and inevitably also the driver's minds.

Gets too bad, get a new car !!!

 

I think it all combines together as mentioned- car getting older etc. I think the grade logic and the fact that the car will lug along at very low rpms in a tall gear - like 4th at 35mph and 1500rpm...then you hit a slight incline or decline and it doesn't know what exactly to do for a second. Like the OP said- maybe to smart for its own good which doesn't help the fragile tranny any

 

hey yikes, glad to know the rpm fluctuation is not my imagination. of course, Any transmission is susceptible to failure, especially if operated improperly, but, this car was obviously driven responsibly by the previous owner, judging by the overall cosmetic condition of the vehicle. the current transmission shifts flawlessly, all things considered. be interesting to know, do you subject your post 05 transmission to HEAVY duty operation, or do you operate it normally, according to direction sd outlined in the owners manual? fjn

 

hey 3.2tlc, "arithmatic dementia" is what i think i have sometime, so i guess i can forgive the car for exhibiting similar characteristics. ( i love that term.) "ya, get a new car" that's the answer. technically, this car is obsolete, but i can fix that later. i Love this car and can't imaging any car that i would rather have, within reason, of course. happy motoring,and, keep the shiny side up. fjn

 

your right mark. i think when the engineers designed this transmission, they went over board on features and fuel economy, and sacrificed durability. what responsible owner would operate any motor vehicle at 35mph in fourth gear. i think, driving any vehicle, within in this band, surely contributes significantly to top engine contamination and strain on all power train components. in addition, it is my understanding that many people on this forum operate their cars on regular fuel only, which has to be a contributing "sludge" factor. happy motoring, keep the shiny side up.

 

Hey FJNjr, our 2nd Gen TL's are indeed well designed Honda engineered automobiles worth putting some extra time, effort and money into. As ya undoubtedly know by now.....the tranny is the weak link with our TL's. Keeping the fluid clean really helps. The ultimate answer is the "AV6" donor replacement. These cars will last indefinitely once the common issues are resolved......300K and beyond is attainable and proven !!!

Being a new owner of any 10 year old car with 200k on the dial requires inspection of the overall vehicle and it's sub-systems. It's best to start from scratch....unless ya know the previous PM history which was documented by the other owners. Otherwise, you're on your own. To make the car "perfect" is not an easy task or realistically feasible at this point, unless ya don't mind spending some serious cash on updating it to a like new condition.

Show us a pic of your TL, if ya can.

 

Has anyone tried the the Idle Relearn Procedure?
I read on a TSB that it can cause abnormal shifts and other strange behaviors.

 

good suggestion erikua5/ thanks, ill look into that bulletin. fjn

 

hey 3.2TLc, if i had the resources, i would not hesitate to find the nicest 03 s type availible, one on ebay now, i think 56K miles, white pearl/ebony that so far brought $6100.00 but did not sell. it is also a florida car. that car, i would completely restore and it could be perfect! i have no such aspirations with my 200K clunker but, it will operate in the manor with witch it was designed. hope Ur having a great w/e. be well, fjn

 

doing the paint work tomo. than away for w/e mon. the 29th is D day for the top end. i appreciate your advice and am going to proceed accordingly. cant wait to install plugs after cleaning and valve adjustment. it runs so good now, im afraid i may jinx it with proper maintenance. thanks again, fjn

 

those are co-joined labor- remove intake manifold to remove valve covers for valve adjustments, now the TB and manifold are sitting on the bench for cleaning.
coils come off so the spark plugs are sitting right there waiting!

seafoam can be used at any time, use the gas tank method as I suggest and no danger to old weak spark plugs or any other parts, plus more parts get cleaned!
not only safe for cat and o2 but actually cleans them!

throw a can in gas when at 8 gallons- just under half tank, for a 2 oz to 1 gal MAX ALLOWED CLEANING DOSE
do whatever work you want, add another can when tank down to half again
drives over 30 minutes help the process