Greetings to all fellow 2nd gen TL owners, my 2000 3.2tl is reporting a p0305 code after removing the IM plenum and cleaning, no clogged ports were noticed on plenum and IM. We have replaced coil pack #5, cleared code using clock fuse method but p0305 return after couple days. Took to dealer and they diagnosed as needing a valve adjustment, which they did. P0305 code reports again after couple days, took back to dealer they swapped #5 w/ #4 fuel injector and code returns a p0304 after 2 days. Dealer replaces #4 injector and engine runs smoother and starts faster but got the p0305 code again 2 days later, at the time CEL came on notice a vibration and then engine went smooth again. Dealer feels that #5 injector needs replacing and advises replacing all injectors. Can anyone please advise if this is a wise move to put an end to my p0305 issue or recommend a way to isolate this fault. Thank you!

 

clean the injectors with seafoam thru gas tank

you say plenum - do you mean the actual intake manifold was removed and cleaned,,
not the end covers for it= which acura calls plenums

 

Sorry, I meant the cover plate on IM. I consulted with the Acura advisor on using the seafoam as a gas additive for cleaning injectors and they said that its bad for seals. The acura advisor said that the reason now that p0305 comes up after swapping injectors w/ #4 is because of pressure change on rail after installing new injector on #4, is that possible? The car is at their shop for diagnosis this weekend, I should have an answer on Mon., but five injectors @ $80 a piece plus labor, is this going to really fix p0305 code.

 

To back up a bit, this P0305 code did not display as a fault until after you removed the intake manifold's top cover plate, Is that correct ? Was the reason that you originally removed the plate due to an erratic idling .....without any CEL codes ?

I'm unsure if it was just a coincidence that the P0305 came up after the IM work, but if they were able to "move" the problem to a different cylinder.....either by the coil or injector, that helps somewhat. By using the dealership's $500 shotgun approach, chances are that they will come out smelling like roses.

You're at their diagnosis mercy now, but the problem seems to be in the #5 cylinder. Have they checked the fuel pressure and performed a compression test on the cylinder ? It could be something as simple as a bad plug, faulty wiring or even the fuel pressure regulator.

It's probably too late, but maybe the IM top plate's gasket isn't sealing or the plate may be defective or improperly torqued. Sometimes a vacuum leak or bad fuel can cause idling to fluctuate enough to trigger a misfire code. Simple stuff with our aging cars can mimic more complex issues.

 

STOP
they did not remove the entire intake manifold and to clean the egr system????
its way more than a cover that comes off!!! approx 1.5 to 2 hours billed labor

speak in person with service MANAGER
the service writer is totally making stuff up stuff now,, since they didnt diagnose correctly
sure 6 blahblahs will make it run better
BUT then we found xyz which led to ,,,,, and they still have missed the basics
service writers are usually not techs,,and interpret what was written on a paper!
they have no clue

THEY NEED TO REFUND YOUR MONEY FOR MOST OF THE WORK AND ALL DIAGNOSIS
then take it to a proper acura guy- private shop will will know to do the simple things first
get the egr passage and port issue fixed

 

its possible to invert the top cover gasket on install and cause running probs

 

3.2Tlc, I removed the IM cover to inspect and clean just for maintenance, no CEL prior to this, idle was a little rough. Service advisor didn't mention anything about checking fuel line pressure, I did bring up if they did a compression check and he said that if it were a compression issue that engine would always be running rough not intermitently.

After I cleaned the IM cover and gasket w/ throttle body cleaner I also ran a coat hanger down the EGR port holes on IM, no ports were clogged but had some carbon buildup, I ensured cover gasket was oriented correctly so that EGR port hole on gasket lined up w/ holes on IM, gasket was in good condition, i.e. edges were straight, installed cover screws hand tight then torqued in criss cross fashion about 1/2 turn. Maybe just coincidental that CEL came on next day of driving?

01tl4tl, service advisor said that IM has to be remove when doing valve adjustment and tech would have cleaned any carbon buildup.

Can a faulty fuel injector cause a foul spark plug? All plugs were replaced @ 98k, currently have 104k mi. Thanks!

 

what spark plugs are you running,,the correct 8 dollar each NGKs?
anything else must be replaced asap to cure your running prob

Did an old plug look fouled? a bad coil would allow that,,or an injector flooding
Has mpg been down dramatically?

I do not believe tech cleaned carbon THRU the length of the egr passage inside manifold,
as is required on our engine,, and not found in the service schedule

if it wasnt specified on work order and billed for cleaning intake,
it didnt happen!!
you asked for a valve adjustment and thats what they did
'service writers are total bs artist...I was one

top cover gasket must be aligned on the cover,,not to manifold
there is a port that gets blocked when flipped gasket
and it looks fine when you install

torque on manifold bolts is 16 foot pounds and 10 for the tb to manifold (iirc on that one)

recheck work, run seafoam thru gas twice to clean injectors
very very rare for an actual injector failure

 

The spark plugs were installed at the dealer, they are PZFR5F-1, OEM plugs.

Got the car back from service dealer, they did a compression check on #5 cylinder and said engine probably needs a head gasket or has a cracked head. I haven't noticed any coolant mixed w/ motor oil or seen any external coolant leaks on engine or driveway. I have been topping off radiator w/ 1-2 oz lately but thought maybe due to air in system, have not had engine over heat on me since buying car in Oct. 2011. Tech also mentioned on invoice that HC were >400 which exceeds CA emission specs. Car is due for registration in Oct. I am going to get a 2nd opinion from another garage before concluding it really has bad compression on #5 cylinder.

 

Yeah, I'd definitely be looking for a second opinion. The dealer's prognosis just went from replacing all of the injectors to a "head" problem ? The high HC reading is likely caused by the misfiring condition. While burning coolant is a typical sign of a bad headgasket, the oil should be analyized for contamination by the coolant leaking into it.

It's been my experience that if the exhaust appears to be puffing white smoke along with loosing coolant, your car's engine has a blown head gasket. A couple of things to look for is for mixing of coolant and oil, either way . The oil level can actually go up and appear milky, or the coolant can show an oily discoloring residue. The car's cat-con will junk up from a bad head gasket.

I'd suggest pulling the plugs, especially on the effected side and check their overall appearance and condition. A bad head gasket will foul plugs. Also, have the cooling system pressure checked for leaks. Inspect all vacuum lines and connections. If you still have the same code, (P0305) try taking the #5 cylinder's coil and swap it with one from the opposite side head. If the misfire code moves, then you may have your answer.

 

whats the compression readings?
they should have done a cylinder leakdown test to further investigate

Since you have been losing coolant, an air bubble could have fooled the temp guage into reading normal

give us those compression numbers

but if you have been overheating it or it redlined a few times
thats replace engine with used unit time

typical that dealer tech didnt run a compression ck with rough running and
initial diagnostics wrong (shaking head sadly)
their boss wants fast results,,10 minutes spent and 1.5 hours billed

I suggest you be in the office of the General Manager of dealer with Service Manager there taking heat for all the bs the writer fed you,
and refunding substantial amounts for wrong repairs based on incomplete diagnosis
you paid and paid while they made no progress because of overlooking the basics of testing
how is the comnpression??
is the head gasket blown==there are very simple test for those, which a good shop does as part of diagnosis and documentation of the problem

were they made aware of overheating- coolant loss?

 

Sorry to reply back so late, been having issues w/ internet connection.

The compression readings were not documented on service invoice, all verbal. Service writer said HC exceeded limit and they sniffed out cylinder #5 w/ HC detected.

Had the smog check done yesterday w/ passing results. Not sure what to think of this Acura service group.

General Manager of service said was willing to credit the valve adjustment fees toward head gasket replacement on both banks.

I plan on getting a 2nd opinion from local dealer, diagnostic cost will be worth it if they confirm what initial dealer diagnosed.

 

So, in the past year that you've owned the car.....you've had no real running problems until just recently, right ? If you've never had any overheating issues, that's a definite plus. However, any time that you buy a 10 year old vehicle with questionable previous maintenance, it's kinda potluck ! Is there alot of miles on the car and do you have any knowledge of the past repairs ?

During the recent episode, has overall performance and general runability showed any negative symptons. Low power, poor idle, etc. How is it presently running ? As an alternative to the local dealership, you could have any reputable privately owned auto repair shop help diagnose the engine's head gasket. Their labor rates will be considerably less expensive than the dealers.

It's good news that your car just passed the "smog test". I can reasonably assume that test wasn't performed at the dealership which only recently stated your car's engine "exceeded emission specs". Good luck with the second opinion, as in my opinion, you definitely need one. Maybe another shop will diagnose the P0305 code differently with a simpler solution.

 

what were the hc and co readings on the test?

unusual for dealer or any shop not to document on paper from tech
what the compression readings are
thats just common sense to have written down--and required by law!
or service writers make stuff up

apply valve adjust cost to head gasket,,how nice of them
especially since head gaskets have to include adjust valves on assembly
DOH!
full refund for incompetence and,,, wait for it,,,
FRAUD

head gaskets are simple to detect thru exhaust reading, and coolant sniff or dye test for CO will reveal bad seals/rings/gaskets

when I ran a shop we never gave a `might be` --diagnosis
it need this--thats that!
we tested it these ways and here are the results= which mean it needs xxx amount of dollars

 

Yes that's correct 3.2Tlc, no poor performance issues and no CEL until recently, I bought this from a close family member and have all maintenance receipts, timing belt, water pump, plugs, etc were replaced ~98K mi. currently have 105K mi.

Car was running fine at time of smog check but now have CEL light and poor idle, TCS came on 3 times which probably means new DTC generated, I don't own a OBDII tool so not sure what type of DTC came up, shop will read them tomorrow. The smog test was done at a private smog shop. I know that car had a overheating event around 90k mi, before we owned it, not sure how severe, but radiator was replaced.

01tl4t here are the HC & C0 smog test results;

@15mph, HC=10ppm, CO=0.01%
@25mph, HC=2ppm, CO=0.00%

 

2000 3.2TL Thanks for getting back !
You must be frustrated by your car's problem. In my opinion, this situation may have developed after the initial service work done at the dealership. It's hard to imagine that they would misdiagnose the car and leave you hanging.

If severe enough, the over-heating could cause issues with the head, but it would've likely showed up soon after the incident. I'm assuming that when your relatives had the major service work performed ......all was well, or they would not have sold the car to you.

Have you checked any of the items which I suggested looking at earlier ?
My guess is that the dealer's tech may not have been competent in his work. Get the second opinion and depending on the outcome, Go back to the dealer's service manager with the smog report along with the second shop's detailed report of estimated repairs needed. They may change their tune.

 

I wouldnt let that place do any more work. First thing i would do is take the top IM cover off and make sure the gasket is on the correct way. It fits both ways with the holes lining up except for the main egr port. 2nd thing is just because the code is showing a misfire for #5 does NOT mean it necessarily is that cyl. Many have had the misfire code come up but not on the cyl it actually is. Take a new coil pack and start on #1 cyl reset ecu and drive. If the code comes back go to #2 and repeat till you are at #6 or the problem goes away.

 

3.2Tlc and everyone, thanks for the advice!!!

Yes, it is frustrating, don't know what to believe, head gasket, damn! The car was running great when we took over, except for a rear main seal leak which has been corrected, now this.

I'm taking it in this morning for the 2nd opinion diagnosis, I'll let you all know what happens. You all have a great day!

 

those numbers look fine but will ask my smog buddy
mine runs about 1

do what fsttyms1 said on the top cover gasket,,it fools many people

pull 5 plug and inspect,,if coil bad it will be wet and oily looking, smell of unburnt fuel
swap coil with one next to it and reset ecu by pulling the clock fuse for a minute- passenger end of dash

codes are clues= not diagnosis in themself

 

This is a really tough situatiion to diagnose. First check all your vacuum hoses wth gauge (follow manual). The entire intake manifold/throttle body need to come off and be cleaned out; the EGR passage way from the head to the EGR valve needs to be manually and completely cleaned. The EGR valve at this point needs to be replaced. This is a tough problem to fix since this code can be thrown and persist for so many reasons. Check your fuel pressure to the fuel rails...the fuel pressure regulator on these cars can go funky. Pulling the fuel rails and looking at the injectors is not a tough job at all once the intake manifold is off...I suggest doing this. ...but I doubt these are the problem.

 

I got the 2nd opinion diagnosis today from another Acura service dealership in my area. When I dropped my car off I didn't give any history of past diagnosis, just wanted to see what they would come up with.

The service manager said that it needed a fuel regulator kit? What? So I told him what the last diagnosis was from another Acura service shop, a blown head gasket. He proceeded to have a leak test done, to confirm what the initial diagnosis was. He mentioned that DTC were misfires on #4, 5 & 6 cylinders and when leak testing #5 & 6 cylinders the coolant level would increase, he mentioned that #4 cylinder may also have a bad valve.

I need to make a decision if this would be a wise investment with a head gasket replacement, car only has 104k mi but original tranny, invested so far $1400 for repairs and $1k for tires and brakes, $500 for valve adjustment and new fuel injector (misdiagnosis). Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

get a used engine and drop it in
get refund from dealer who did faulty work

talk to owner of dealer that gave bad 2nd opinion and tried to rip you off BIG TIME
fuel regulator kit,,WTF is that?????

 

Differing diagnostics from two dealer service departments is totally unacceptable. I've always tried to avoid the dealership's whenever possible. Try to find a reputable privately owned repair shop to give you their opinion on repairing your car. A faulty head gasket is something that any good shop could properly diagnose and repair.

If worse comes to worse, the first dealer did offer to refund money paid for the valve adjustment work towards the head gasket replacement. If only doing the one side, the added expense should be less than $500. Seeing as how you have already spent considerable money on the car so far, that doesn't seem like too much more.

A 2000 TL with 104k and a transmission that's good compared to most, should be worth the costs of this repair work in my opinion. Has the t-belt been replaced ? It's a tough decision, but the other alternative is to just trade or replace the car.

 

a factor to consider is how badly this engine was overheated- and how many times?

it cracked a head!!!
that they think so far.....whats to be found inside,, and later when rings are bad
the lower end took abuse too and will fail in 5000 miles

once you cook a TL,,its done
thats why we say used engine from crashed TL and throw on timing belt parts etc so its fresh and ready is a good option over fixing yours

 

dealer offer to credit valve adjust to engine work if done there and done at full price ,,what a crock
contact state auto licensing in your area
and BBB
you have valid claims on both places for faulty diagnosis
and repairs NOT NEEDED!!!!!

I was in the biz, you win this case,,,get to small claims etc

 

note wet spark plugs from blown head gasket will cause bad coil codes

each place should have done compression test and co test before any work

you pay 1.5 hours diagnosis= the least the can do is spend the full time figuring out whats really wrong
not tell you what codes it has,,,total bs