Frank1212

Wife bought 2003 Acura TL new in 2003. Been taking it to dealer for routine maintenance, services, etc. She trusts me for easy stuff like oil changes, brake pads, etc.
The car has 255k miles on it and is due for its THIRD timing belt, quoted by dealer at $1100 (includes water pump,labor). Looks good and drives well, has been maintained, and seems to be in fine shape.

My question: Do you think it's worth the money for a car with this much mileage?

3.2TLc

Welcome Frank1212 !!!
Original owner '03 TL....well maintained. Cool !!! Yeah, it's worth the money, IMO.

If the tranny is good and ya wanna keep the car, check with local independent shops for a labor quote on the T-belt service. Buy the "Aisin" complete T-belt kit for about $200 and figure on at least $300 for installation.

So, quick question...... T-belt servicing is normally good for about 100K. How long ago and what was the mileage when the last T-belt was installed and were all the associated parts replaced at that time ?
You may be able to stretch a few more miles until the next service if everything was properly done.

Frank1212

Thanks for the quick answer
Timing belt was replaced on 7/2010 at 164k. Water pump, belts, and coolant.
According to dealer, 90k is recommended change mileage
1st: 89k on 12/06
2nd: 164k on 7/10

BTW, Tranny was replaced FREE due to recall just shy of 100k

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^looks like the timing belt was changed a bit early both times.

no worries.
you can save money buy buying the ASIN kit from Rockauto.com
and either do it yourself or take it to a mechanic. be careful, sometimes indie shops like to make up the loss money in parts with labor!

Frank1212

Thanks justnspace

That's a great price - $194 - Amazon is $208
Unfortunately, it's my wife's car, and she would rather pay more than double to have it done at the dealer. Go figure.

But you've both answered my question regarding doing this work on a car with high mileage.

THANKS

03sixer

Timing belt is one of those iffy things. I had an 03 CL type S that I waited until 135,000 to change it. Still looked like brand new when we swapped it out. Age is really the killer on these items. However, if the water pump starts going, that's what's going to eat your timing belt up. My opinion...wait a bit. Get it to 275-280k. I bought a used 98 civic for my son off the 2nd owner. It had 253,000 miles on it. Confirmed that he had bought it with 88,000 miles on it and driving it as a commuter and NEVER changed the timing belt. I'm like, let's get this thing apart and change it. When we did, you could tell it was the original belt, but was amazingly still in decent shape. Obviously, ready to be changed but probably in all likelyhood would've lasted another 20k miles. If your car is highway driven, garaged regularly, and properly maintained with oil changes I think it's safe to say these cars could go 200,000 on each timing belt with less than 1% failure. Of course, the results if they do fail are catastrophic, engine wise, but on a car like that where the cost of changing it is about 25% of the value of the car....just drive it.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

that dealer price is robbery. I got mine done at Honda for $600.

01tl4tl

no reason for dealer on this job- plenty of good honda acura shops these days
spend the difference on all the roller and tensioner bearings, the car will go another 200kmiles no sweat
90k is the service writers suggested miles- because they work on commission!!!!!
105 is book schedule unless super severe operation, extreme heat or cold etc

do they suggest ps fluid and brake fluid flushes too? or just the easy money they make on the timing belt job? a pro can knock the job out in an hour!! and they charge you for 8 hours of the techs time!!

Frank1212

2 other things suggested by dealer are new plugs (I'm doing that) and a tranny flush.

More than 1 person told me NOT to change transmission fluid on a car with over 80k miles - just add fluid if needed. The logic being you don't want to mess things up in the tranny by moving things around in there with a flush. Don't really know if that makes sense.

I changed all fluids yearly on my 98 Civic until it blew a head gasket last year with 275k miles - never a problem.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^just like engine oil, transmission oil wears or breaks down.

YOU WANT TO CHANGE transmission oil to keep protecting the transmission components.
I would even say to make it a habit to change it every 30-60k miles.

if not, you're going to be wearing your transmission components down very fast.

there's a common procedure called the 3x3, where you drain 3 quarts add 3 quarts. Do this 3 times. hence why its called the 3x3 drain and fill.

MarcDavidoff

^ yeah unless the fluid looks and smells burnt I would go ahead and at least do one 3qt change with DW1.
When I bought my 02 TLs it had the original belts at 10yrs/148k miles. Had it done right away but was 50% past schedule. It depends a lot on the conditions it is subjected to. I have two older Legends that both had low mileage when I bought them (50k or less) but were both also around 13 years old. Had the belts done and both still looked great with no cracks. But it is all a gamble and as mentioned the water pump can always start leaking from age.
I would agree you can definitely be safe going another 20k miles+ on that timing belt as it has been 80k miles/4yrs

Frank1212

You do the 3x3 flush with Honda ATF DW1, correct?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^I would.

when people experiment with other types of tranny fluid, there might or might not be any intended results....

3.2TLc

Yeah, do a single drain and fill using Honda DW1 fluid. You don't need to do the "3x3" D&F all at once. Actually it's better to do it over time and allowing the tranny to acclimate itself to the newer synthetic ATF. That way you won't shock a sleeping dog. Replace the inline spin on filter also.

01tl4tl

you don't have an OLD trans you have an acura rebuilt unit installed when they did the recall inspection of 2nd gear shaft and found blue heat marks = definite problem so they replaced entire trans under the special court ordered extended warranty
What was the year that was done? in 2005 a major change to trans CASE was made with better oiling to 3rd gear clutch and external recall installed oil jet kit went internal?
look at top of trans for a large filler bolt marked ATF or a weird gizmo in that place instead,,easy to tell old style from new~

getting it on the new fluid wont be a problem
acura gets 100$ to simply let gravity drain and then refill 3 qts, that's a 1x3
with fluid cost at 6-8 $ per qt they are really making out on this job!
note trans holds 7.3 but will only give up 3-3.5, then refill and drive short distance using each gear to move fluid to drain and do again, and again

Frank1212

Invoice says work done 2/1/2006
Mileage 72115

CUST STATES WHEN SHIFTING GEARS TRANSMISSION SLIPS THEN BANGS INTO GEAR
CAUSE: INTERNAL FAILURE
21 8102 TRANSMISSION AND TORQUE CONVERTER - EXCHANGE. S/B# 90-00 9
2796 W4 5.50 hrs.
1 06200-P7W-A75C1 RM WARRANTY A/T KIT
W CORE

Skirmich

Both timing belt changes where just too early..


First timing belt should have been at 104K-114K so your next one would be at 204-214K (Timing belts last more than 100K at minimum).
But don't sweat it there are a couple of Aziners that have reported to have the original timing belt with more than 400K on it.. So odds are you can last longer than 150K on it! But 90K? NOPE that its just too early forget what the STEALERSHIP says they just want you to drop 1K with them.


Change it a 260K but you can still hit 280-290K with it easily. I'm still riding my second timing belt at 205K but I did the first one at around 116K.

Frank1212

Yes - timing belts were replaced way too early

BUT.. it's my wife's car and she pays for dealer service and is willing to go by what service manager tells her. The car has been is fender benders and she's had body shops do complete repairs. I'm sure she thinks the car has lasted this long because of dealer maintenance.

Thanks to the info on the 3x3 tranny fluid change - I can do that and save her $$$. Also spark plug change - God only knows what the dealer would have charged for that.

3.2TLc

Yeah, go to your local Honda dealership and get a full case of DW1 fluid. Ask them for a price match discount. Also consider replacing the inline ATF filter near the fill bolt on top of the tranny.

Check the last dealer's repair invoice for the T-belt servicing. Make sure that all the other associated parts were listed as being replaced with the T-belt. These pulleys, idlers, tensioners and water pump are critical components as the mileage accumulates.

Skirmich

I know where you are standing but you gotta let her know (Your Wife) that she already burned through 1K on timing belt change she doesn't need...

We don't call them stealerships for nothing if they could they will tell you need a new engine every 200K because parts wear and they don't run like a brand new engine I hope your wife isnt the kind that will change the engine :S

3.2TLc

Yeah, but if wifey still likes her TL and has a few extra bucks to spend on PM......it's cheaper than having a new car payment, IMO. Ya know, it's all about keeping them happy !!!

Skirmich

^^ 1K is too much to keep her happy
Still a rip-off is a rip-off be anyone's money, She is literally throwing money down the drain.

Frank1212

Wife is the big $$ earner in this house

So if she needs to drop 1100 bucks on her Acura, or anything else for that matter, it's like me (or you) dropping 50 bucks on a new hydraulic jack.

Reminds me when I was at the Honda dealer service window picking up a part. The guy in front of me was buying wiper refills for his Accord. At the dealership. Talk about throwing money away. Happens every day.

3.2TLc

Yeppur, gotta admit it's a conspiracy, IMO. People think their old cars are being blessed and rejuvenated when they walk through the dealership's doors. Everyday logical folks like most of ourselves don't realize how lucky we really are to have some common sense.

But, the real true purpose of a dealership's service dept. is to lure a person into a newer vehicle, while waiting for their car to be serviced. If the wait doesn't work the repair invoice will get you motivated. So, at the end of the day ......it'll be OK !!! No additional new car payment book until the next visit. Who wins ?

Frank1212

Don't forget they give her a FREE loner car for the day

That's worth the extra $600.....Maybe not..

3.2TLc

Ha, hah !!!
Ya realize that when they let your dear wifey "test" drive the newer "loaner car" .....the dealership's main objective is to get her to fall in live with the new car's freshness and latest features. Sooner or later, they will reel her in !!! Nothing is ever really "free", ya know it's the art of salesmanship.

On a side note, the 2015 TLX has been totally redesigned and may well be worth looking into, rather than dumping money into the old TL ??? IDK.

MarcDavidoff

^ I've been a big Honda/Acura fan for a long time, but the newer stuff is just too mundane for me

3.2TLc

Yeah, it seems as though they lost something with their designer's being in a slump and not able to get the bodylines to flow very well. Especially the 4th Gen TL's beaks. Even the Civics, Accords, SUV's and vans don't make a good impression when compared to some of the competition. They need to be more enlightening and have better identity inspiration, IMO.

However, they recently seem to be improving their effort with the newest offerings, IMO.

MarcDavidoff

True- I think they are finally getting the message a bit. Their new TLX commercials are pretty aggressive compared to their norm. Acura sales have been plummeting. I never get tired of looking at one of my legends