Hi I recently ordered the DC Sport ceramic headers for my 2002 TL-P part number HHC-5528, I just brought them to a very reputable exhaust specialist shop in my area who has done exhaust work for myself and for several other people that I know and they have always done very good work. So I dropped off the car this morning with the headers, they call me about an hour later saying that the headers WILL NOT fit my car! They said that the headers themselves do bolt up to the motor, but the driveshaft is completely blocking the path for the piping that connects from the headers to the cat. They even took pictures of it to explain what they were talking about. Now I am screwed because I have to spend HUNDREDS of dollars in labor costs because now the shop has to do the job all over again and put the stock manifolds and piping back on again which they obviously have to charge me for. I just don't get this, the part number matched up, they are suppose to be designed for my TL as a bolt-on without any cutting, welding, or modification... I ordered them from Speed Element at http://www.speed-element.com/servlet...exhaust/Detail

I haven't called them yet because they are in Pacific time and they aren't opened yet, but the only thing I could see happening is that somehow they might of boxed up the WRONG headers? I'm just really pissed off about this whole thing, I have to pay a few hundred dollars for NOTHING now and I don't know if Speed Element will cooperate in reimbursing me for the labor costs, but I do have pictures that PROVE that the driveshaft is directly blocking where the piping would go. As soon as I can figure out how to get the pictures up on a site link I will post them. Can anyone make any sense of this and offer me any advice on what do to?? Thanks in advance.

 

Just to be more specific, the mechanic at the exhaust shop said that the front header looked like it would fit without any problem, but it was the rear header that wouldn't fit because the driveshaft was blocking the path where the rear header would connect to the J-pipe (the piping that connects the headers to the catalytic converter which is included with the dc sport headers). He said that both headers bolted up to the exhaust ports without any trouble, but it was just the rear header that was the problem because the driveshaft was directly in the way of the area where the rear header would connect and bolt up to the piping that joins the header to the cat.

This leads me to believe that DC Sport may have messed up by boxing up two of the same headers(two front headers instead of one front header and one rear header) because I have heard that the front header and rear header are different and not interchangable, I also remember reading a post on here that someone else had this same problem where DC Sport had sent them two of the same headers so the second one wouldn't fit. Can anyone guide me and/or advise me on what to do from here, and how do I get either DC Sport or Speed-Element (the company that I bought the headers from) to reimburse me the SEVERAL HUNDRED DOLLARS that I now have to pay the exhaust shop for all the hours of labor??

 

Front and rear banks are not interchangeable.

Here's some pics I found on the board. These are Comptechs but I'm pretty sure DC has the same design. I can't see them at work but I think they show both front and rear banks.

 

Well that would explain why the mechanic said that the front header looked like it would be ok but it was the rear header that was being blocked by the driveshaft where it would of connected to the J-pipe. The only explanation would be that DC Sport boxed up two front headers rather than 1 front and 1 rear since they are different. Now because of this I have to pay for about 4 HOURS of labor and NOTHING was even acomplished, it was a complete waste of money and time and now I look like an idiot to the exhaust shop! Can anyone help me out on what to do and how to get reimbursed for the labor costs?

 

Im 99% positive the front and rear on teh DC are the same. Can you get pics of the headers you bought? Neither should get in the way of the axle. Find out if the mechanic is just having a hard time getting it to fit past the motor mount. I had to remove the rear motor mount on a members car to get the rear DC to go into place.

 

I have pictures showing that the rear header couldn't fit because the driveshaft was directly in front of the flange where the rear header would connect and bolt up to the J-pipe, but I dont know how to post them up here. The mechanic sent them to my email address. Can anyone help me with posting the pictures?

Also I called DC Sport and they said that they have accidentally sent 2 of the same headers (2 front or 2 rear) before on a rare occasion because they look very similar, but the thing that REALLY pisses me off is they said that their warranty DOESN'T cover the labor costs that I am responsible for!! I really can't believe this, I am so angry right now about this crap, now I have to pay a couple hundred dollars for like 4 hours of labor out of my own pocket because DC Sport probably messed up and sent me the wrong parts?!? This is just ridiculous and now I don't even know what the hell to do.

 

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-photograph-gallery-99/%2A%2A%2Ainstructions-posting-pictures%2A%2A%2A-573134/


instructions on posting picures

 

 

good job on the 3 bolt flange design

has he tried swapping front to back?

maybe that IS the problem..

 

I had trouble getting the rear DC manifold on my '02 type-s but everything cleared fine after i took the motor mount off. It doesnt look like they have the front and rear messed up tho. could just be the wrong rear manifold all together.

 

I asked him when I picked up the car after they put back the stock exhaust manifolds and the mechanic said that they tried switching the headers and the rear header still was being blocked by the driveshaft. This is such BS.

Now I am out $350 for labor costs because DC Sports screwed up and sent me either two front headers or the wrong rear header altogether, and when I called them they said that their warranty only covers the parts, NOT the labor costs. So that means I am out another $350 because of their error.

So thats great DC Sports, I can send you back the wrong parts so you can send me back the correct ones under their warranty claim, so then I have to pay my exhaust shop another $350 to have the correct headers installed?! To hell with that. I am so done with this company, I'm sending the entire header set back and I want a full refund for the $330 I spent on their incorrect headers so that way I can at least recoup some of the money that I lost throughout this stupid mess.

At this point I don't even know how I could try to get them to reimburse me for the $350 labor costs I had to shell out and wound up getting nothing accomplished for the money. The guy that answered the phone at DC Sport basically stonewalled me by saying that their is nothing that they can do about the labor costs I am now stuck with due to their mistake. I am so aggravated over this, they make me look like a moron in front of my exhaust shop and they took $350 of my hard-earned money out of my pocket and I ended up getting NOTHING ACCOMPLISHED FOR IT.

 

First off paying 350 bucks for what should be a hr to a hr and a half job TOPS is Id never pay that. 2nd talk to the mechanic and see if he will cut you a deal on the install. He knows what he is doing now and has every thing loosened up. It shouldnt take long at all now. We understand that you are upset but at this point you really dont have much you can do. If the shop was a decent shop i would think they would cut you some sort of break on the install now. How about trying doing it yourself. Its really not that hard (like said before especially now that the shop has loosened all the hard bolts)

 

Crazyjkz - you got PM.

 

I think the reason why it ended up costing $350 was because once they realized that the rear header couldn't be put on, then they had to go through the whole process over again to get off the headers and put the stock manifolds back on and all, also they put in new manifold gaskets which cost a little extra because i didn't want to risk having any issues reusing the stock gaskets. They told me that simply getting access to the rear exhaust manifold was the most time-consuming part because its such a tight spot to access right in front of the firewall and all, so just taking off the stock rear manifold and installing the rear header and then having to do it all over again was what took up most of the labor time.

If DC Sport would at least reimburse me for the initial labors costs I would definitely just have them exchange the wrong headers for the correct ones, but from what the guy at DC Sport said they are basically unwilling to even discuss reimbursing me for labor costs I incured which was due to THEIR error mind you.

Unless I call DC Sport back and maybe try and speak to a manager or something and reason with them, I already emailed them the pictures that show that the rear header couldn't be installed and I haven't heard back from them yet. And even though I did expect the exhaust shop to give me a break on the install I guess in reality I can't expect them to lose out financially on the job just because the manufacturer screwed up and boxed up the wrong rear header.

I would think that a decent company would be reasonable and figure that since it was 100% their fault that the labor costs were incured in the first place that they would let me send them the receipt so that they could reimburse me on it, but for them to not even be willing to talk about reimbursement, and then expect me to put in a warranty claim so I can get the correct headers put in and then spend ANOTHER $300 to do the install is absolutely ridiculous especially after all the crap I had to go through today because of this.

I dont have access to a lift so I dont know how I would even be able to attempt to do the install on my own.

 

Do it yourself...The hardest part has been done by the shop.

 

jack and jack stands

one friend

few tools.

few beers.

elbow grease.

PB Blaster/WD40/Liquid Wrench/etc etc


done.

 

don't forget the porno

 

I understand you are upset, Your only hope is to try to talk to someone higher up at DC and see but i wouldnt hope for a lot.

You dont need a lift. I have done it probably 5-6 times with nothing more than a floor jack and jack stands.

 

Damn....that story sucks, tell DC they need to reimburse you for their error or you request a full refund for their product and litigate your labor expense back.

sucks they charged you so much. A labor rate of $100/hr is about 3.5 hrs of labor, so even then I suggest you check their rates before returning for a re-install.

 

I never did any mod this big before by myself, but if I can really do it with just a jack and jack stands then maybe I will consider it. But I'm still gonna at least try and speak to someone higher up at DC Sport and see if they can at least be reasonable with the labor costs that I am stuck with. If I can really do the install myself then I guess it would make sense to just have them do an exchange for the correct headers. If not and they refuse to be reimburse me for the labor costs then I guess I will just stay firm and tell them that if they aren't going to be fair about this and take responsibility for their error/mistake that ended up costing me several hundred dollars then I will just write them off and return the headers and get a full refund and never deal with them again.

I just put in my Comptech Icebox intake on Saturday, and so far I'm really enjoying it. It sounds nice, I can feel a noticeable increase in engine response across the entire rev range, and I can definitely feel more torque at all speeds too. Also I just got my Greddy SP2 cat-back exhaust today from the mail and I'm gonna have it installed either tomorrow or Wednesday, it looks so nice being that it's all 100% stainless steel and everything, and based on the youtube videos I've seen the Greddy SP2 sounds ideal to what I'm looking for. I was looking for a quiet exhaust that has a nice deep refined tone to it that isn't raspy and loud that looks really good too and the Greddy SP2 seems to fit the bill almost perfectly. So I might be just content with the Comptech Icebox and the Greddy SP2 cat-back at least for the time being.

 

for the love of god do the exhaust yourself please, you just need a friend to help

 

you live any where near me

 

Nah I live on Long Island, NY. I'm really do think that header installation would be over my head as far as me being able to do it by myself, especially if doing it without someone who was at least somewhat experienced in doing exhaust work.

On a positive note I had my Greddy SP2 cat-back exhaust installed today by Meineke and it came out really great. It looks awesome and sounds great, it really does give a perfect exhaust sound - not loud or raspy sounding at all - just a deep, smooth, refined exhaust note that doesn't drone when cruising and is not intrusive at all from inside the car. I can definitely feel better engine response especially in the mid to high rpm range with virtually no noticeable loss in low-end power/torque. I really like it a lot especially with the Comptech Icebox I installed this past weekend and I have already gotten many complements on the exhaust just today alone.

I love the Greddy SP2 and I would recommend it to ANYONE who is looking for a great looking and sounding exhaust that isn't loud or ricey sounding in any way, but it kinda makes me want to get the headers put in even more now that I love the intake and the exhaust so much I am curious to see what kind of gains the headers would give me in addition to the Comptech Icebox and the Greddy SP2. I just don't know what to do because I seriously doubt I would be able to do a job like header installation on my own and I would HATE to have to have DC Sport exchange the wrong rear header for the correct one, and then have to pay for installation ALL OVER AGAIN!

I just don't know what the hell to do.

 

intake is more work IMO.. basic tools and you can do it your self.. give it a shot.. worst thing that can happen is you can't do it and you'll take it back to them

 

I wouldn't consider this "exhaust work"... .all you have to do is unbolt old manifold, bolt new one on

 

I wouldnt worry about the wrong one being sent out again. It is very rare. Also look at it this way, the header is the single largest HP adder for this car this side of Forced Induction. You want to add the header. Install is not hard. Its just a bunch of small bolts.

 

No I was saying that even if I have them send me out the correct header I would STILL have to pay for the installation all over again because I don't have air tools and I don't have access to them either. I really don't see how I would be able to use a simple rachet set to remove exhaust bolts, and even if I did have a powered air rachet if I messed something up or broke a bolt I would really be screwed because I wouldn't have the spare parts readily available that an exhaust shop would have and I wouldn't have the specialty tools to remove a broken bolt like that.

My only option is I have a friend that knows a Honda dealer mechanic and I might be able to see if he could cut me a break on the installation, or maybe see if he would be nice enough to assist me in doing the installation himself since he has access to air tools. I'm gonna try to contact him tomorrow and see.

 

On all the header jobs i did for the various members and myself i never broke out the air tools once. There just isnt room for them. Simple hand tools and sockets are all you need.

 

Plus now all of your bolts have been loosened and should come out with minimal effort

 

I understand your frustration with what transpired, but I think you should put it behind you. I would bet dc has fine print in it's warranty that you can't get around.
I am going to play devil's advocate and ask this: Did anybody read the instructions? Usually instructions start with laying out all the parts and hardware to check for anything missing and to familiarize yourself with the parts. At this point, you'd realize that there was a difference between the front and rear manifolds and stop. If this is the case, you should be able to embarass them into cutting you a deal on a second install.
By "them", I'm referring to the installers.

 

350$ for a header install? and you said you got work done there before too? .. man if i open a place like that and get 1 person a day i can become rich.
I payed 600$ for a 5.5 V8 engine swap on my mercedes.. and even then i thought i paid too much for the job. i think you should look for other places to get work done on your car dude lol.

 

UPDATE!

Just figured I would give an update on this situation. Well DC Sport had ultimately sent me out a new set of headers for my TL at no charge to me, the guy I spoke to at DC Sport regarding this matter was quite helpful, he concluded that I must have been sent either 2 front headers or 2 rear headers because they are not interchangeable, he sincerely apologized for this error on their behalf and sent me out a new set in which he ASSURED me that he had personally inspected thoroughly to ensure that their was 1 front header and 1 rear header in the box and that all the parts were 100% correct.

I had a buddy of mine who is a local Honda/Acura tech in my area do the install for me yesterday for $200. Then, my nightmare came true! He called me and told me that the rear header was NOT clearing one of the motor mounts!! At first I freaked out because I thought that DC Sport screwed up on me yet AGAIN, however he told me that the only option we had was for him to try and slightly bend the rear header in order to get the very small amount of clearance he needed to complete the install. I gave him the OK to try it and then I went down to see what the deal was and when I got there he had finished doing the slight bend to get the clearance and he was just getting all the bolts onto the rear header make sure they would all take which they ultimately did! After that I started to feel somewhat relieved that this might not be a nightmare after all.

The rest of the install went OK although he did tell me that this was a MAJOR pain in the ass for him to complete and he didn't expect it to be so rough of a job. Now the only issue we have left is occasionally at certain lower RPMs I get a weird kind of rattle/vibration noise which we are assuming is the rear header rubbing against that motor mount. However, my buddy who did the install reassured me that next week I can bring the car back in and he should be able to tweak it so that the rear header isn't making any contact with that motor mount at all as to eliminate that occasional noise I'm hearing at lower RPMs.

But all in all with the exception of that occasional rattle/vibration at low rpms the car pulls noticeably harder now at all RPMs, the DC Sport headers seem to complement the Comptech Icebox CAI and the Greddy SP2 cat-back exhaust very nicely, the engine and exhaust note are both more aggressive now in a very good way, and the engine response and acceleration is noticeably improved!!

Although I am very glad to FINALLY get these damn DC Sport headers on my car once and for all and I'm very happy with the performance improvements, does anyone have any personal experience and/or tips or advice on this whole rear header clearing the motor mount problem? I mean neither of us want to bend the rear header any more than we absolutely have to as to avoid cracking or breakage but this rattling and/or vibration noise is somewhat annoying.

 

i havent had any clearance issues on the 2 installed. I had to remove the mount to get it on, but after that it fit. Both the mount bracket and the header are in a fixed position. Unless its actually resting on it its not the problem. If you are getting a resonance/vibration i would loosen all the bolts and retighten them. That is usually the problem that causes it. Most tighten the manifold bolts, then attach the lower Y pipe causing it to have to be forced into position giving that.

 

I just ordered DC Headers last night. Do I have to remove the rear motor mount to get these on???

 

Me and my mechanic are a little confused as to how the rear header would have cleared the motor mount just by removing the motor mount before installing the rear header and then putting the motor mount back on. Wouldn't the lack of clearance still be there even after temporarily removing the motor mount?? I mean it's not like anything is being changed or put into a different position just by removing it and then putting it back, right? My mechanic figured the same thing which is why he had ended up having to ultimately bend the rear header slightly in order to get the small amount of clearance he needed to get the rear header on.

I'm bringing the car back to him on Wednesday to have a Comptech tranny cooler installed, and after that is done he is going to loosen and re-tighten all the bolts like you had suggested. Now that I think of it, the occasional metallic rattling sound I'm hearing at lower RPMs does kind of sound like a loose bolt that is spinning and/or moving in it's position so maybe it is just a bolt that needs to be loosened and then re-tightened. However if that still doesn't resolve the rattling noise then my mechanic said he will try removing the motor mount, then re-installing the rear header and then putting the motor mount back in to see if that makes a difference. I'll give an update this Wednesday when it's finished.

 

once the mount is out of the way you'll be able to slide the rear bank right onto the bolts. There is very little clearance once the mount is bolted back up but like fstty said, since they're both in a fixed position they should ever touch again. I don't blame you for taking it to a shop to get done. normally putting headers on is easy but messing with the whole motor mount was a bitch to deal with. I would definitely try loosen all the bolts and get things lined up then tighten it all down. These shouldn't have any resonance.

 

UPDATE:

I brought the car back to my mechanic friend on Friday so he could resolve the occasional rattling noise that was happening after the DC Sport header install. He put it up on the lift and immediately noticed that one of the bolts on the 3-bolt flange that connects the rear header to the J-pipe was missing! After replacing the bolt he also checked all of the other bolts to ensure that they were all tight and secure, and he also noticed that there was a small connecting brace from the stock exhaust that connected the J-pipe to the under-body of the car to make the J-pipe and everything even more solid and rigid, so he put that brace back on as well.

We started it up and revved it up high and the rattle was completely gone! Not only were the rattling noises gone but the entire exhaust note sounded much smoother and cleaner which was most likely due to a slight exhaust leak that was being created from the missing bolt on the header flange.

So all in all I am very happy with the DC Sport headers. The exhaust sounds great now and the power increase is definitely noticeable throughout the entire power band. The headers seem to complement the Comptech Icebox CAI and the Greddy SP2 cat-back exhaust very nicely. The exhaust note is still quiet and subdued enough so that it never drones or gets annoying, but the DC Sport headers did give the exhaust note a slightly deeper and more aggressive sound which I really like a lot.

 

ok, this is what I needed to hear...sounds like I'm going to sell these XS Power headers and grab a set of DC Sports.

Thanks a lot for the update!

 

Yeah even though the install almost became a big problem, ultimately it worked out OK. He never ended up removing the motor mount to clear the rear header because bending the header slightly had given him the very small amount of clearance that he needed, and replacing that one missing bolt on the header flange plus putting that brace back that connected the J-pipe to the underbody of the car resolved the rattling noise problem and the exhaust leak, and now the exhaust note sounds better than ever!

It's a very nice smooth and deep sound now that I like a lot without any drone or annoying resonance, but then again the Greddy SP2 catback exhaust is known to be one of the better sounding exhausts out there with no drone and an exhaust note that is deep and smooth without being loud or annoying. The exhaust note is a little bit deeper and more aggressive sounding with the DC Sport headers which sounds really sweet. The DC Sport headers seem to be of high quality with a thick and substantial ceramic coating over the headers and the J-pipe. The power increase is definitely noticeable across the entire powerband. I would definitely recommend DC Sport headers.

 

I'm nervous about having to remove the rear mount though...the XS Power headers didn't need that to be removed...