adding headers???
03-02-2011 | 02:00 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2009
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adding headers???
when putting in headers wether they be comptech, dc, or xs. is it needed to get a tune.... I was so excited i finally purchased my headers and my car buddies say i should get a tune. They said i dont need one right away but should get one. How important is it to get a tune when putting on new headers? If i need one where can i find a place to give me a tune for cheap?? i just bought ct headers and just about there for atlp exhaust so im tired of dropping quite a bit of money.
Not to mention there really is no easy or cheap way to tune the car.
03-02-2011 | 09:34 PM
#7
I need 2 more gears
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,228
Likes: 7
From: Springvale, Maine
Correct me if I am wrong guys but you cannot reflash/tune our ECU's at all. You need either a pggyback or a stand alone. Our ECU will learn that the exhaust manifold flows more than normal and adjust timing and spark accordingly, correct?
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03-02-2011 | 10:06 PM
#8
I'm pretty sure that the ECU will learn different adjustments and adapt. I know some cars that get great yields from CAIs, but the ECU learns and completely negates it to +0hp.
Still, I'm pretty sure that you'll be set without messing with the ECU.
Still, I'm pretty sure that you'll be set without messing with the ECU.
03-03-2011 | 12:47 AM
#9
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Joined: May 2010
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From: Charlotte, NC
Exactly what he said. I mean what is there to tune??? Only thing you can do is but the header tuned for your car. How would you know? Which header yielded the most power on your motor? There's your answer.
03-03-2011 | 09:07 AM
#10
Racer
Joined: Nov 2009
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and the only reason to flash the ECU to take advantage of the increased air flow through the engine, meaning you can increase the fuel pulse and that is about it but if you install bigger injectors, bigger metering plate in addition to the intake and exhaust then you need it tuned otherwise your not going to get the most out of the additional parts and HP increase they make.
03-03-2011 | 09:34 AM
#11
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From: Appleton WI
Correct. And most all get over written by the ECU. The only one that seems to work without having to constantly reset teh ecu from my understanding right now is the AEM FIC.
03-03-2011 | 11:37 AM
#13
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From: Charlotte, NC
03-03-2011 | 11:45 AM
#14
headers.. great gains for the buck...
thats if you get the xs-p or $300~ ones.
comptechs are nice too but.. i was better off buying the xs-p ones..
$103 shipped for 20whp...
thats if you get the xs-p or $300~ ones.
comptechs are nice too but.. i was better off buying the xs-p ones..
$103 shipped for 20whp...
03-03-2011 | 12:15 PM
#15
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From: Appleton WI
03-03-2011 | 12:19 PM
#16
there is also a new ECU piggyback being developed for the 3rd gen.
after it's completed, they will move on to make it compatible with the 2nd gen.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/new-ecu-preview-806456/
after it's completed, they will move on to make it compatible with the 2nd gen.
Originally Posted by pass427
Don't get dissapointed just yet ,yes it can and will work on a 2g r&d might be even quicker Anne simpler than the 3G ,but right now we are focused on getting the 3G up and running as a lot of people are waiting on this ,but after we get done if we get a group together I'll go ahead and get it running on the 2 g also ..
Originally Posted by KN_TL
New ECU preview
Originally Posted by KN_TL
I've gotten some information on the upcoming ECU product.
It is based on the MegaSquirt3 ECU modified to interface with the 3G TL ECU.
MS3 info is here http://www.ms3efi.com/product.html
Here are some things you can control (Items are hyperlinked)
This also means that the tuning can be performed using MS compatible software. The current software being used is TunerStudio. It can be downloaded for free and also has a register option. More information is available here:
http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/
One HUGE feature is VE Analyze Live. Read about it here:
http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/#veAnalyze
Some questions and answers so far:
Q. Will the stock ECU be retained ?
A. Yes, this insures that all factory features are not lost
Q. If the factory ECU is still in place, are you simply intercepting the signals?
A. No, the FACTORY ECU has no control over engine parameters.
Q. Will this be a Plug and Play install or do I need to custom wire?
A. This solution will be Plug and Play with a pre-wired harness included.
Q. Are Base Maps Included?
A. Base maps will be available based on the application.
Q. What is VE Analyzer ?
A. A tuning tool that tunes while you drive! See http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/#veAnalyze for more information.
Q. Is drive by wire retained?
A. Yes along with all other luxury features handled by the stock ECU.
More info, Email - tl20046speed@yahoo.com
It is based on the MegaSquirt3 ECU modified to interface with the 3G TL ECU.
MS3 info is here http://www.ms3efi.com/product.html
Here are some things you can control (Items are hyperlinked)
- Idle Valves
- Second O2 input
- Constant Barometric Correction
- Knock Control
- MS2-Extra Pin Usage
- Launch Control
- Switched Maps
- NOS Control
- Programmable Outputs
- Tacho Input/Ignition Settings
- More Ignition Options
- Tacho Output
- Cold Ignition Advance
- MAT Based Timing Retard
- Engine and Sequential settings
- Idle Control
- MAP sampling
- Staged Injection
- Boost Control
- Idle Advance
- AFR Safety System
- Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT)
- Generic PWMs
- Generic Sensor Inputs
- SD card datalogging
- Launch / flat-shift / 2-step / 3-step
- Speed and Gear sensors
- CAN communications
This also means that the tuning can be performed using MS compatible software. The current software being used is TunerStudio. It can be downloaded for free and also has a register option. More information is available here:
http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/
One HUGE feature is VE Analyze Live. Read about it here:
http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/#veAnalyze
Some questions and answers so far:
Q. Will the stock ECU be retained ?
A. Yes, this insures that all factory features are not lost
Q. If the factory ECU is still in place, are you simply intercepting the signals?
A. No, the FACTORY ECU has no control over engine parameters.
Q. Will this be a Plug and Play install or do I need to custom wire?
A. This solution will be Plug and Play with a pre-wired harness included.
Q. Are Base Maps Included?
A. Base maps will be available based on the application.
Q. What is VE Analyzer ?
A. A tuning tool that tunes while you drive! See http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/#veAnalyze for more information.
Q. Is drive by wire retained?
A. Yes along with all other luxury features handled by the stock ECU.
More info, Email - tl20046speed@yahoo.com
03-03-2011 | 12:33 PM
#17
so not true, the ECU will adjust the mixture as needed, just becuase it flows more air doesn't mean the ECU needs to adjust anything more or less than it did before the parts where added, it's still going to rich'n or lean out the fuel mixtured based on O2 readings, it might increase the timing some under certain conditions. But letting the engine breath better will increase HP and there isn't a damn thing the ECU can do to counter act the effects of more air flowing through the engine.
and the only reason to flash the ECU to take advantage of the increased air flow through the engine, meaning you can increase the fuel pulse and that is about it but if you install bigger injectors, bigger metering plate in addition to the intake and exhaust then you need it tuned otherwise your not going to get the most out of the additional parts and HP increase they make.
and the only reason to flash the ECU to take advantage of the increased air flow through the engine, meaning you can increase the fuel pulse and that is about it but if you install bigger injectors, bigger metering plate in addition to the intake and exhaust then you need it tuned otherwise your not going to get the most out of the additional parts and HP increase they make.
03-03-2011 | 01:01 PM
#18
Racer
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 410
Likes: 6
so is that the factory ECU or an aftermarket unit?
don't really see how the ECU is going to decrease air intake, the Vtec doesn't kick in at idle or just off idle conditions, only thing to detune the motor once air flow was increase from a CAI is to lean it out more or back up the timing from base and the computer has it's limits and it's not going to retard the timing unless it's pinging and the knock sensor detects it. I don't believe the ECU can adjust the pulse width band of the injectors to limit the amount of fuel going in or Vtec retarding the valves timing from the base setting, it'll advance it past base but will not retard it no benefit so I don't quit see how the computer can negate the effects of a cooler denser charge of air. So if you know exactly what the ECU is doing to detune the engine enlighten us all, otherwise it's just BS from tools running desk top dyno and not real world testing
Last edited by rcb2000; 03-03-2011 at 01:04 PM.
03-03-2011 | 01:40 PM
#19
No no, its the stock ECU for the Lotus. Just to be clear, I'm talking about that car specifically canceling out the ECU.
Our Acuras definitely gain benefits that aren't diminished from the ECU. No doubt about that.
As for the Lotus, I'm not educated enough to give you a detailed reason of how, as I also agree with your reasoning. Still, there's a lot of experts that say it does. Either way, it's irrelevant to this forum.
Our Acuras definitely gain benefits that aren't diminished from the ECU. No doubt about that.
As for the Lotus, I'm not educated enough to give you a detailed reason of how, as I also agree with your reasoning. Still, there's a lot of experts that say it does. Either way, it's irrelevant to this forum.
03-10-2011 | 12:09 AM
#27
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,138
Likes: 113
From: Charlotte, NC
We have J-pipe. Our headers are made in the head of the engine. The J-pipe is freer flowing, removes the 3rd cat on some versions but not all. Power gain is anywhere from 12-20hp check out my thread... 3 companies post the facts on their J-pipes. Ask anything you need. Im sure they'll be a good help to you if the want you business. Doing a search helps. Welcome to the site.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/who-makes-j-pipes-whats-power-price-806382/
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/who-makes-j-pipes-whats-power-price-806382/
03-10-2011 | 07:54 PM
#28
I need 2 more gears
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,228
Likes: 7
From: Springvale, Maine
It would be nice if a company made a performance head with bolt on exhaust manifold option. The heads could be stock heads PnP'd, planed, valve's adjusted to ensure proper clearance and tapped holes to mount SS headers onto. That would probably be a great improvement and a kick ass modifcation.
03-16-2011 | 06:01 PM
#35
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Staten Island, NY
So i just got off my phone with my friend who knows a pretty good deal about cars. he tells me headers will give little no gain at all and would need to be tuned maybe giving 2 hps by then... do i tell him he dont know jack about the J32A2? i really wanna do headers but dont wanna look like a fool if they do nothing. not going against your word just wanna be educated about this matter.
03-16-2011 | 06:28 PM
#36
I don't want to discredit your friend, but that's just silly.
Our cars will get big gains from adding headers. It probably yields the most gain from any bolt on. Maybe he doesn't have too much experience with Acuras/Hondas?
Our cars will get big gains from adding headers. It probably yields the most gain from any bolt on. Maybe he doesn't have too much experience with Acuras/Hondas?
03-16-2011 | 08:27 PM
#37
So i just got off my phone with my friend who knows a pretty good deal about cars. he tells me headers will give little no gain at all and would need to be tuned maybe giving 2 hps by then... do i tell him he dont know jack about the J32A2? i really wanna do headers but dont wanna look like a fool if they do nothing. not going against your word just wanna be educated about this matter.
03-17-2011 | 12:32 AM
#38
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Staten Island, NY
thats what im saying. thank you for answering. last question and ill be out of everyones hair. i have a solid 400 to spend on headers. what would u pick besides comtech headers? looking for most preformance
03-17-2011 | 02:40 AM
#39
For $400, you can get any of them except for new Comptech, like you said.
Personally, I'd get DC headers. If your planning on getting a 6-speed swap, your only options are XS headers or used Comptech headers. Both of them can be difficult to find.
Personally, I'd get DC headers. If your planning on getting a 6-speed swap, your only options are XS headers or used Comptech headers. Both of them can be difficult to find.
03-17-2011 | 04:57 PM
#40
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,138
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From: Charlotte, NC
I agree. DC Headers would be the easier find for 400 bux.