Vaj10

ok guys im confused....i know this was discussed but help me out im picking up my new TL-S today and i want to get it tinted ASAP. I was told by a few people that the messes with the Navi performance....is this true?..... What kind of tint wouldnt do this.. I know Joey said just to smoke it and make sure its non metallic.

PLEASE POST UR EXPERIENCES

Drazzilb01

Hey Vaj,

I have had tint on my 99tl for years now with no problems. It is non-metallic. So you have nothing to worry about... (not sure about what metallic tint would do to the navi.... Hope this helps,
Drazz

FTM-1

I have had tint on my TL with Navi for well over a year now.
I have the non matallic tint also & have not had any problems.
It has been posted that the matallic kind may mess with reception.

preludeshfan

i have 18% metalised film on mine and no problems with the Navi

daverman

I would imagine that you'd want to avoid tinting right under the navi antenna (that box on the upper passenger's side of the rear window). Otherwise you'll be fine.

I wonder if anyone has successfully asked a tint shop to cut the tint right under the antenna?

ShadyUpInSmoke

what would window tint have to do with the navi at all? maybe im just dumb cuz im not real familiar with navi.

daverman

The Navi uses GPS (Global Positioning System) satellite signals to locate the car. The GPS signal is received through the GPS antenna located at the top passenger side corner of the rear window.

The GPS signal is extremely weak, so the antenna should get all the help it can. Putting a metallic window tint film between the antenna and the glass will in effect insert a giant ground plane between the antenna and the satellites. This will make the signals seem even weaker to the antenna.

Pin0yDrag0n56

I have metallic tint on my accord, and the same thing applies to Radar detectors. My radar detector still performs really well though.

tdoh

Rhetorically speaking, I'm sorta confused here--putting metallic (or any other type) tint film betweeen the antenna and glass as you stated above implies that the antenna is somehow removed before doing so. If so, wouldn't it be less problematic (from a signal strength standpoint) to just tint around it? Or to put it another way--if metallic tint does interfere with GPS signal strength, why the heck would someone go through all the trouble to tint the rear glass in such a way that the film is between the antenna and glass?

I can't say I've removed (detached? disconnected?) the GPS antenna from the rear glass, but I do know how the rear glass looks without one attached--there is a connector (don't know the technical term for it) very similar to those used for attaching the rear defroster wires. In any case, I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to just cut around the GPS antenna (just use the outer side of the glass as a template)--the GPS antenna doesn't use the entire rear glass as a receptor, does it? Then again--if the radio antenna wires run throughout the entire rear glass, then whether or not using metallic film is sorta moot...

Tony

wayneg

Tdoh- metallic tint will interfere with the GPS signal to the navi unit and lead to inaccurate or no readings at all. the GPS antenna is located in the rear deck and "looks up" through the rear window, thats why metallic tint interferes.

FTM-1

Tell them about it wayne

gohawks63

The place that tinted my car said that they do not use metalized tint since it is known to interfere with the GPS in SOME cars. So to be safe, they avoid it altogether.

tdoh

Ah--so here is where the confusion lies, and hence my remark concerning the GPS antenna and signal strength--at least one person (daverman) had stated that the GPS antenna is located at the top passenger side corner of the rear window. OTOH, you're saying that the antenna is located in the rear deck, which implies that the GPS antenna is not mounted/located anywhere on the rear glass itself. If true, then what you said makes perfect sense regarding GPS signal reception through a metallic-tinted rear window.

I am not disputing the fact that metallic film may interfere with the GPS signal; I was puzzled as to how it could interfere if the GPS antenna was supposedly mounted in a corner of the rear window as described since if such was the case, all one would have to do is to cut the tint right around it.

You're the first one (that I can tell) who has stated that the GPS antenna is actually located in a place other than on the rear window.

Tony

P.S.: if the rectangular thingy near the upper right corner of the rear glass isn't the GPS antenna, then what is it? Connector for radio antenna, I presume?

pianoman41

That is definitely the GPS antenna. It says so in the FSM. Take a piece of aluminum foil and cover it up and watch what happens.

tdoh

I give up....

If the GPS antenna is mounted in the corner of the rear glass, then why would metallic tint be an issue here? I mean, you can't just tint right over it (well...you can, but unless the antenna is as thin as the tint film itself, I don't think it would be prudent to do so)--you would have to either cut the film around it or remove the antenna first before applying the tint. Someone in this thread is possibly wrong as to the exact location of the GPS antenna--unless it was in a different location in pre-2002 TL models...

Quite frankly, I don't think anybody here really knows what the deal is regarding metallic tint film and GPS signal reception--at last count, we have some people who claim that metallic film does not reduce the GPS signal strength (at least on their vehicles), others who claim that it does; then we have people who say that the GPS antenna located in the upper right corner of the rear window, while at least one person (Wayne, the Park Ave Acura service manager--you would think that if anyone would know, Wayne would be the guy) says that it's on the rear deck, which I assume is not the same as rear window, but where among other things the subwoofer grill/cover is located. Frustrating to say the least...

Tony

pianoman41

Okay I can only speak on some of this. First, on the '02 models, the GPS antenna is *definitely* that small box in the upper right corner of the rear backglass. I have the Helms factory service manual (same ones used at the Acura dealer) and it clearly shows the location.

As for the metallic tint issue, here's my stance. I do not have tint on my car so I cannot say one way or another what metallic tint will do for *your* reception. However, given the fact that the GPS antenna is on the very edge of the window (and in the dot matrix area), I can't imagine the window tint going that high up and over it and reducing its effectiveness. If your tint did go up to the edge then it could be a factor. I consider myself to have a pretty good working knowledge of radio waves and their properties (such as a GPS signal). And I can say that any type of metal between a transmitter and a receiver is going to adversely affect reception. The only important factor is to what extent. Daverman, if I'm not mistaken, works with GPS hardware and software so I would consider him a good source of information.

Metallic tint *will* decrease the effectiveness of a radar detector (trust me on this). If you have metallic tint on the rear and side windows and use a rear/sidelooking Valentine V1 you will lose some sensitivity. The exact amount is an unknown but all things being equal, a car with metallic tint is going to have a less effective V1 (at least from the rear and sides).

tdoh

Okay, I won't disagree with you as to the location of the GPS antenna. Having said that, can you or daverman explain how/why metallic tint would adversely affect the GPS signal reaching the antenna, given that the tint would be covering what would be considered the underside of the antenna (visualize tint, antenna, glass)? Isn't the signal reaching the antenna from the outside, not from within the vehicle? To put it another way--it's not as if the GPS signal is hitting the tint before reaching the antenna, unless somehow the tint was placed on the outside of the rear glass (very unlikely). Or is the antenna using the entire rear glass as a receiving surface?

Tony

wayneg

Pianoman- if the manual you are using shows that the gps antenna on the top of the rear glass, you better not use it to change the antenna. The gps antenna is located on the rear deck on the left side about 2 inches back from the glass and about 3 inches to the left of the subwoofer. You have to remove the rear deck cover to gain access. It is held in with 2 bolts one on either side and has a molded coax wire that passes through a hole in the rear deck and attaches to the navi unit. Thee box you refer to is listed as the connector for the radio antenna.

pianoman41

Wayne, thanks for the correction. I looked again and I'm looking at the exploded diagram incorrectly. I humbly retract my assertion. I think my foot has been in my mouth enough on this topic.

pianoman41

Tony,

As you can see from the previous post, Wayne corrected me on the location of the antenna. But now the argument against metallic tint is even stronger. The signal absolutely has to go through the glass and through the tint to get to the GPS antenna. Although others have not reported any trouble with metallic tint and the navi, your mileage may vary. I personally would be very wary of putting *anything* metal between the satellites and the GPS antenna. It is a very weak signal.

tdoh

Well, at least you're man enough to admit a mistake...

I reckoned that Wayne's statement made more sense; like I said, I couldn't see how metallic tint could affect the GPS antenna if the GPS antenna was mounted in the corner of the rear glass. I totally concur with you and Wayne in that metallic film will in likelyhood affect the GPS signal being received through the antenna; how much signal loss is probably dependant on the type of metallic tint film--this may explain why some people claim little or no signal loss when using metallic tint.

Wayne--I didn't get a good look at the type of connector used on the coax cable for the GPS antenna, but is it possible to get an extension cable so that the antenna can be relocated to let's say the front dash area? Yes--doing this (if possible) is probably not worth the time and effort just so that metallic tint can be used for the rear window, but I'm just curious (from a hypothetical standpoint).

Tony

edgalang

This is not hypothetical at all! I have a metallic tint installed months ago thinking that little box on the glass was the NAVI antenna. Once in a while I would loose signal, but I always thought it was normal since it would come back again in a second. If there is any way I could improve my odds of receiving a better signal I would do it, provided I could do it myself.

edgalang

Ok....after reading this thread I went to the kitchen to grab me some tin foil and headed over to my car for lunch. I covered the interior part (surrounding the sub) with foil and drove to the mall with my co-worker to find a place to eat. The weakest signal I ever got was yellow and would sometimes flicker back and forth to green, other than that, I was mostly getting green signals. It's either the signal here in Cali is much stronger than in other tree/mountain covered areas, or you would need a metallic tint that has a higher % of metal in it than tin foil to NOT get the NAVI to work.

P.S. I also have metallic tint.

wayneg

TDOH- the connector on the coax is not standard. The antenna unit sells for $104.99. I suppose you could always buy one and try messing with that as to location. I spoke with some informed sources and they told me that it needs to look up with as little interference as possible. It will work through glass. but metal body panels or heavy metallic tint will interfere. The GPS signal is not real strong to begin with, so you really don't want to attenuate it if at all possible. Remember- the navi also uses speed input, gyro input, and distance traveled to determine position. If the gps signal is weak or intermitent, your navi will still work, but it will slowly lose accuracy or position reference. Thats why sometimes it will be off and then snap back to correct itself- it probably lost GPS for a short period then reacquired it. This happens much more with metallic tint on the glass.

daverman

What? I thought that box was the Navi antenna! Well now I've got to check out the underside of the rear deck.

The GPS antenna needs a clear, unobstructed view of as much of the sky as possible. The best place to put your antenna is actually on the roof (that's where they place them on airplanes). Plastic and glass doesn't significantly affect reception, but metal certainly does, especially a car body (Faraday cage effect).

I remembered that my older Alpine Navi unit came with an antenna measuring about 1.5" x 1.5" and 1" thick. It had a magnetic underside with foam rubber standoffs and I mounted it on the top side of the middle of the trunk. It got fantastic reception.

You can probably order the Alpine version of the antenna and it'll probably work just fine! It comes with 6m (18') of cord with a magnetic back.

edgalang

After re-inspecting the unit this morning, I did in fact see a small lump on the right side of the subwoofer when looking in from the trunk. I then took the foil I had covering the entire back side (exept the subwoofer) and double layered the area where that small lump resides. As expected when I started the car, I didnt get a GPS signal at all, but it only took 2-3 minutes before the 3 green bars showed up. Commute to work is 42 miles 1-way and so far the GPS was pretty accurate even with the double layer of foil covering the top portion. If metal does in fact reduce the signal of the GPS, then tin/aluminum foil does not produce a valid test.

tea elle

I used non metallic onthe rear window, and no problems with navi....

Donte99TL

Well I have a 99TL with Navi and I live in San Diego. When I hade the metallic tint installed on my car the Navi went crazy. The tint shop wanted to know what was going on too. So we ended up doing a test. Went to 20 different location with the metallic tint on and took down what kind of signal I was getting. We then removed the tint and did the same thing. Then we put on the tint that had no metallic tint in it. Well it did have a difference. The metallic tint was making the Navi have a week signal or no signal at all and sometimes would loose where it was going. It would so me driving in the ocean. The tint with no metallic in it or no tint on the back window had the same effect, which was nothing. What I ended up doing was putting metallic tint on the side windows and normal tint on the back and it was perfect. Well there is my two cents.

tdoh

Does your navi have a month signal if you use non-metallic tint??

Also, I would imagine you would have bigger issues besides a weak navi signal if you're driving in the ocean--I dunno if our TL-S were meant for ocean cruising!!!

Sorry, I had to comment because your post was just too funny!

All in fun, of course...

Tony

bebber

Edgalang, you might have put foil over your middle seatbelt retractor and not the gps antenna. I doubt that would affect gps reception, but would help keep your seatbelt retractor a little bit cooler.

Any unintended metal between the radio signal and the antenna will weaken the signal reception. Furthermore, metal even in the proximity of the antenna will have a similar albeit lesser effect. It's not a question of placing tint around/over/under antennas.

The radio antenna is etched into the upper portion of the rear window glass much resembling the defroster lines and its connected through at the little plastic box at the upper right corner of the glass. The plastic box is just an electrical connection, there is no circuitry or antenna in that box.

Some metallic tint will interfere with radio reception. How is this possible since the metal tint is behind the antenna? Well, the metal tint would have an even greater attennuating effect if it was in front of the antenna, but just the fact that the metal tint is so close to the antenna means that it has some effect on the radio reception.

So it's a matter of what kind of tint you get and how much metal it contains. I have a titanium metallic tint with 43% tranparency covering my whole rear windshield including the matrix dots at the top. I have not noticed any decrease in radio reception or gps accuracy. I nearly always get a "green" gps signal. I drive all over the place too, and the navi works fine. I have no doubt that my metallic tint must at least slightly weaken the navi and radio signals, but I know that it's not sufficient to noticeably interrupt their operation in my case.

California receives GPS signals just as well as any other state. The GPS satellites (24 of them I think?)orbit the Earth continuously and uniformly. No matter where you are on earth, you will have times when the satellite geometry is favorable for gps reception and times when it is less than favorable. Weather phenomena, elevation, and most importantly your unobstructed view of the sky will have effects on your gps signal reception too.

So if you want to get metallic tint for your rear windshield, I suggest you don't get one with too-high of a metal concentration and go to a tint shop that will let you try it on and see if it works for you. Mine works great!