ac3.2

Has anyone heard of Willwood brake kit and if so any performance info? There supposed to be for honda and acura and race proven. They also come with aluminum billet cross drilled rotors.

Debadged_S

Willwood is out of Camarillo California, I'm about 5 minutes from there. I've talked with a couple of engineers from there. There products are decent and have a good name, but there no brembo's. I am seriously considering getting willwood's as well. I'm trying to see if I can get a sponsorship through them. We'll see........

bioyuki

Post info guys! I haven't heard of Wilwood before. What size rotors? What kind of calipers?

SL1200MK4

Well, I think Willwood is pretty good... above average...

and way more affordable...

Austin519

Hell I want to hear about this...info info...anyone have a phone #? Name, anything?

Austin519

valuetl

Tim said that AEM is going to offer brakes for the TL! You know if they do, he will hook us up.

91M5

Why do you need them? Do you track your car? If not, better pads would be sufficient for street use. Big brakes do not necessarily stop your car faster they are just able to withstand repeated high speed stops better. If you don't drive like that no need to spend the money.

91M5

By the way, I did upgrade the brakes on my M5 but I do 10-15 track days per year. I have 345mm/32 floating rotors with ATE 4 piston calipers from the '95 Euro M5. Bolt right on. You should see if any Acura with bigger brakes would provide easier replacement parts.

tabraha

Here is some info I have on their stuff. I have no personal experience with them however. I posted the info from their Integra kit for you to view. (~1mb)
PDF is linked here

I had to make a webpage b/c we can't post a pdf!
The contact info about the company is on the bottom of the pdf.

I want a set of the brembo's b/c thats what all of my bretheren at the road courses use. They are phenomenal on Porsches and from what I hear the front kit for the TL is very good too.

Hope this helps

Austin519

Yeah, it definitely does. I wonder...if I'm looking for good non racing stopping power...should I just get slotted/cross drilled rotors and zeal-endless's and be done with it?

Austin519

EricL

All True, just more information...

My comments and opinions here:

FADE and VSA:

So far I have been spared from the dreaded "wheel shake" (rotor warp)... How this can be (with wheels steaming) -- I haven't a clue.

The stopping power (with great tires) and stock rotors is quite good (if we are talking about a single high speed stomp)...

However, the VSA does use the brakes (in corners) and I can attest to some brake fade from some rather exciting Los Padres National Forrest area driving with VSA on and moderate brake use.

One drive down from the infamous Mulholland Dr. (in Hollywood hills) and the wheels are hot enough to have popped more than a few SSR center caps off my SSR Comps. (Steam was “blowing” the caps off from the wheel bearing area (and I wasn't even driving "Fast and Furious") (Nothing like the conversion of P.E. to K.E. and a bit of water seeping into the caps from a good car wash job!)

Brembos:

The good news is they kill the fade in street use (there are always exceptions).

The "bummer" about the Brembos concerns the following:

$750 for a set of replacement rotors that can’t be machined/surfaced – OUCH!

17" stock wheels that don't fit (with them on) *and* forget about using the space saver "doughnut" in the trunk.

I would welcome a set of rotors (and or calipers) that could stop and sink the transient heat load (as good or better than stock in emergency single-stop situations) and reduce the fade!

asiankidd

let me tell all you people aready.....cross drilled and slotted dont help worth sh*t unless you do auto cross .

bigger rotors=more surface area which= more stoping area!!!

by drilling holes and slotting it takes away from SURFACE AREA!!! therefore DECREASES true stopping distance!!! The only way this method of cross drilled/slotted rotors would work is if acura pulled an tommy car and in a straight line brake....our stock brakes would fade which isnt the case....if you go for cross drilled /slotted your only doing it for LOOKS....i personally admit to it and would do it to my car but dont think it helps in any way shape or form.....only way to help your braking power is to get bigger rotors and stronger calpiers, ie. 4 or 6 pistons....if you want more stoping power...come to me....i'll build you a freggin WALL!!! chiaa

Just my .02 cents

Let the flames begin!!!

SL1200MK4

Bigger rotors will generate more brake force becasue the longer diameter. Think of it as a longer wrench...

The more surface area will give a better fade resistence...

I agree that the cross drilled rotor is not for the streets, and most people can't take the advantage of it anyways... mainly for looks. Even if you track your car, I think slotted rotor should be good enough to be an alternative. Consider that ti last longer... Cross drilled rotor tend to crack a lot easier...

To me however, more braking power is always good, but only to a certain extend... if your tires are not on par with the braking performance, or you don't know how to react to under/oversteer. It can be a dangerous thing...

Austin519

asiankidd:
"by drilling holes and slotting it takes away from SURFACE AREA!!! therefore DECREASES true stopping distance!!! The only way this method of cross drilled/slotted rotors would work is if acura pulled an tommy car and in a straight line brake....our stock brakes would fade which isnt the case....if you go for cross drilled /slotted your only doing it for LOOKS"

Uhmm...they slot and crossdrill them so they cool quickly after use...because the hotter they are the worse your stopping power is. They're not for looks...at least that's what I've found...besides...you're talking about a very very small difference in surface area...

Austin519

asiankidd

Your right that they cool quicker but the stock rotors are already vented therefore to put cross drilled ones in would only be there for aesthetics purposes, given that by drilling them and slotting them you lose more area than you can afford....it may not seem like much but in distance wise it can drop you by a few feet...being that if you try to upgrade your tl with these rotors...they are for looks....but if you were to do it in a car that constantly has fade problems then it be for more than looks....but im sure you'll agree with me that surface area is surface area...the less you have the worse your performance is .....

SL1200MK4

Well, like I said before it depends on the kind of driving...

cross drill rotor is a better choice for the track becasue you constatly use the brake... or if you drive down hill a lot... but then there's always engine brake as well...

Now, upgrade to cross drilled rotor the same size as stock rotor... you lose surface area... true...

but..... if you upgrade to bigger rotors... then it gives you more surface area, more cooling...etc.

Austin519

SL1200MK4:

What size are the cross drilled/slotted rotors for our TLs on this site?

asiankidd:

I do agree.

Austin519

tabraha

This brings up many good points. The fact that the stock rotors being ventilated is no comparison to slotted or cross-drilled rotors. The blanket statement that " surface area is surface area... the less you have the worse your performance is" is true but other factors are introduced with the slotting or cross-drilling of rotors. When drilling or slotting you are doing more than reducing the surface area of the rotor. The main reason for doing such a thing is to lower the unsprung mass of the suspension. Do not simply say that "you are reducing the surface area of the rotor," that is very misleading to others. Cross-drilling/slotting may do that but who cares if it is in fact INCREASING the contact area of the caliper to the rotor. Here is why it works, even with the same size caliper: When under hard braking occurs everything heats up (yeah yeah I know the law of conservation of energy is an easy one) but many do not know that gases are generated when braking occurs. These gases remain in between the rotor and the caliper reducing the contact area like water affects a tires grip on the road. Slotting and drilling provide outlets for the gas giving the caliper a better grip on the rotor. If you want longer life from your rotors that are drilled I suggest getting them cryogenically treated as well.

asiankidd

VERY VERY VERY TRUE!!! i was thinking to myself whether i should bring up the topic about super heated gas pockets in between the rotors and the pads but i thought it would make things a whole more complicated....but you have to ask yourself one thing...when those gas pockets become a big problem they are only near temps that professional race cars are at.....under heavy to normal use of the stock rotors....its probably a problem we will never experience.....but you are RIGHT the reason slotteed rotors came out is to completely rid those gas pockets thats why their design in a slanted position on the rotor and goes from top to bottem with ever pass of the slots it insures complete gas removal between the pads and the rotors, as for the cross drilled they serve as both to cool and to escape gas, but not as efficient in removing the gas as the slotted ones are.....

tabraha

It was alot of schoolin going on for board devoted to 90% street sedans huh? Oh well, it was fun.

asiankidd

INDEED FUN AND INTERESTING...i didnt think anyone would bring it up...nice to know we got some really techs here!!!

Austin519

asiankidd:
Heh heh, I think you did get schooled...heh heh heh...

"but you have to ask yourself one thing...when those gas pockets become a big problem they are only near temps that professional race cars are at.....under heavy to normal use of the stock rotors....its probably a problem we will never experience"

That's not necessarily true though. I mean...if you brake from say...140mph to 0, hard linear braking, then that's going to cause those gas pockets. Also, say you're cruising along the highway at 120 mph (as I normally do)...and you're on the twisties (also as I normally do)...you have VSA on so it's using the brakes...then you need to slam on your brakes if you see a cop...I assure you your rotors will be hot enough. I mean saying it would only happen if you're racing, implying you're repeatedly displacing a LOT of energy and so they heat up a lot, isn't exactly true. The rotors are solid metal, and metal is one of the quickest naturally occuring heat dissipators. If you go from 120 to 0, by linear braking, your rotors get hot....then you accelerate from 0 to 120, the rotor is not only traveling linearly through air, but also is spinning. So it cools rapidly...so I think we may very well experience it...just not most normal drivers but I doubt most of us are...

Austin519

asiankidd

i dont really understand waht your saying but i do grasp some parts....when i compared to race cars you know they use carbon fiber brakes...which only work when they are red hot.....but yeah...if you read my post....i did say in the end its an situation that we would never experience in out stock cars....

Austin519

asiankidd:

Very true about the carbon fiber.
"i did say in the end its an situation that we would never experience in out stock cars...."
but we will experience it in the scenarios I gave above...

Austin519

asiankidd

first of all that straight out damn ABUSE..hehe...but given the situation im sure the nose dive of our cars will send the rear of our cars spinning out of control and the only thing that gonna stop us is not going to be our brakes but perhaps a concrete wall hehe....but yeah im sure even under your scenario...that the crossdrilled and slotted would even fade.....you have to admit thats VERY EXTREME!!! hehe but going point....

soopa

does anyone care about original subject!?!?

CAN WE USE THE WILWOODS OR WHAT!?

Wilwood tells me no.

but.. .WHY???

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

amen brotha... way to step in!!

I've been following this topic too, but it's not useful anymore... does anyone else have any info??

asiankidd

haha good point guys....i personally havnt seen the willwoods brake kit yet...but my guess is that they have yet design and extention bracket for our cars yet so that their calipers will fit....also a problem may exist that they havent design a rotor that will fit on to the suspension of the tl-s's at this time....but if someone willing to fabricate the necessary materials...im sure it would work.....theres my 2 cents..